NAB CUP 1: NORTH MELBOURNE AND RICHMOND

[nutbean 8,838]

When it comes to players like McKenzie it is pretty simple: if you give everything, all the time, have a great attitude and expect that attitude of others - you are going to be valued.

We are nowhere near good enough to think that we can 'move past' Jordie McKenzie.

Occasionally on here, some slip into an alternate reality where Grimes should be moved back to the backline and Jordie told to 'take a hike' without realising that there is no replacement for them.

We have a bad midfield. If you want them to be replaced it is going to take time.

My only criticism of the coaching panel on McKenzie is he had a particularly good game last year when he had about umpteen handballs - all pretty effective - and the coaching panel said - all good but we want you to kick more. If his handball can be effective as opposed to his obvious sub par kicking then why not let him play to his strengths ? I dont recall anyone coaching Greg Williams and telling him to handball less ( not that I am saying Jordie can handball like diesel)

[Allen Jakovich 516]

Any chance the Renmark game will be covered by one of the Adelaide radio broadcasters? They normally cover these regional trial games if the power or crows are playing...

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Any chance the Renmark game will be covered by one of the Adelaide radio broadcasters? They normally cover these regional trial games if the power or crows are playing...

They'll cover Port Adelaide, but you will have to use your imagination to work out how Melbourne are playing.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Just watched the replay of the North game. Midfield looked ordinary and I honestly believe it will be another year in the bottom 4. Just being realistic. The large number of changes to the playing list will take time to gel. I guess I'm getting a bit disillusioned after the last 6 seasons and am struggling to see light at the end of the tunnel. Have already renewed my membership though and will hope for the best with realistic expectations.

So if I reckon we'll be better than you do does that make you realistic and me unrealistic, or does it just mean that our opinions vary ?

We're so much fitter than last year and will be more adept at the game-plan that I can't see how we won't be better. We've got an influx of players that were better than those departed. And we played two teams that most suspect will play finals.

If you're Hawthorn, or Sydney and started your pre-season 6-8 weeks behind the majority of our group then you take nothing from these matches. But if you're Melbourne and you want to see the running patterns, see who looks comfortable against senior players, see who's making the right decisions then these games offer relevant information. It's silly to get hung up on these games, but it's equally as silly to dismiss them altogether. The playing group and coaches will get a lot out of both games - good and bad - and educate the group accordingly. That's what these matches are for.

[hardtack 10,543]

In other words it's going to be 40 degrees!

We have to travel to bf nowhere to play in 40 degrees.

We would take Casey players if we could

Mickey Mouse game that will take a lot out of players

Two things to take out of the Renmark assignment... firstly, we had an intensive training camp in the NT that will stand us in good stead as far as the conditions go, and secondly, the other team playing is Renmark is Port Adelaide who we meet in round one... at least we will have a level playground as far as the affect of the Renmark game goes and we will have the MCG advantage.

[Roost It 1,434]

The other player who I was excited about on Friday was Watts. If he can play the sweeping role off half back, drift forward and kick a few goals he will be an excellent addition.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

So if I reckon we'll be better than you do does that make you realistic and me unrealistic, or does it just mean that our opinions vary ?

We're so much fitter than last year and will be more adept at the game-plan that I can't see how we won't be better. We've got an influx of players that were better than those departed. And we played two teams that most suspect will play finals.

If you're Hawthorn, or Sydney and started your pre-season 6-8 weeks behind the majority of our group then you take nothing from these matches. But if you're Melbourne and you want to see the running patterns, see who looks comfortable against senior players, see who's making the right decisions then these games offer relevant information. It's silly to get hung up on these games, but it's equally as silly to dismiss them altogether. The playing group and coaches will get a lot out of both games - good and bad - and educate the group accordingly. That's what these matches are for.

Most teams are fitter Ben. Everyone goes up a notch. I agree we may see some improvement in some areas and noticed our contested ball winning ability looked better in those first games, however some aspects of our game never seem to improve and it kills me. Here's a list.

Kick outs

Field kicking

Decision making

Defensive running

Trust

I witnessed very little improvement from those five points in either of those games.

North and Richmond's ability to move the ball fluently from coast to coast says a lot about where our footskills are at as well as our defensive running. It seems like we don't trust ourselves to hit a short target so kick outs are just the bomb long to a 50/50 contest and get our mids at the drop of the ball and move from there.

Yes I'll wait a few more NAB cup games but holly balls there were some depressing signs again from those two games.

[Bay Riffin 1,474]

I've just watched the Richmond game again and one thing that really stands out is how flat-footed Melbourne players often are, especially after disposing of the ball. Sylvia is one of the biggest offenders but even some of the fresh players did this.

As far as I'm concerned it should be a team rule that midfielders should be moving at all times. It is especially evident when compared to very good players like Cotchin who just doesn't stop.

bit like asking a losing tennis player to chase harder. does a team like Hawthorn actually run more KMs than us, or run to the right spots more often?

I'm not sure if our lack of running off the ball is the real issue. Go watch Mitchell at the Hawks, he does his fair share of 'walking', but puts the gas on when its needed.

[Rollo2 64]

Just got around to watching the North replay last night and I have to say I'm surprised folks are being quite so pessimistic. Seemed to me we matched a good team pretty well for intensity, run and getting numbers to the ball and we looked dangerous going forward. Far better than what we've seen in NAB cups for the last four years i'd say. I don't think we're going to make the eight or anything, but given how bad we've been in recent years I think there's a good chance we might be able to enjoy some solid indications of progress this year.

Haven't watched the Richmond game yet, but I do think playing back to back against a fresh team in 30 degree heat has to be at least taken into account.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Most teams are fitter Ben.

True, but how many were coming off Melbourne's fitness levels ? Many seasoned lists maintain, or slightly improve their fitness, but this isn't the case with Melbourne. Our levels have gone up around 15%, which is quantum when compared to most teams.

As for the other stuff ? First game and mistakes will be made. I think we defended far better as a team, which is evidenced by us having more inside 50's than North. I watched just about every game over the weekend and the standard was ordinary.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Ben-Hur

[The Little Devils 10]

One question - how can we still be so poor at kick'ins? surely we worked on this!!

will keep the gun pwder dry but if we win 6 matches and are competitive for longer periods, our kids improve, then the season will be a tick....

[drdrake 3,178]

I've had a chance to watch both games, what it highlighted is we need our best 18 playing and if we don't it will be a long year, our depth is developing and still shallow. I still believe if we have Jones, Sylvia, Grimes, Viney, Toumpas, Rodan, Blease, Trengove and add in Evans running through our midfield we will be able to compete with most teams in the bottom half of the 8, you take 2-3 of these players out we will struggle.

One player that is a concern is Col Garland, I've always had him pencilled in for our best 18 but he is a worry with the ball in his hand, he doesn't seem to have footy smarts and seems to make poor decisions, add that to Nicho, McDonald, MacDonald and Frawley, all the sudden that back 6 which looked to be strong is know a major concern with the footy, defensively OK but we need Jetta, Watts, Strauss and Dunn to hold down 3 of our 4 defensive posts to enable has to attack with confidence of half back.

Renmark will see a very ordinary team, in no way should any player in our best 18 be risked in Renmark, we need to have our 25 players that are in contention for round 1 playing together in the 3rd and 4th rounds of the NAB cup, I don't care if we lose by 100 points in Renmark as long as our players come back healthy.

Edited February 25, 2013 by drdrake

[old55 23,593]

Not enough good players fifty-5

And guess what they have been trying to solve that one for the best part of ten years with seemingly every decreasing success.

However I think we are a bit better than last year.

The point I am trying to make is we need to win games any games anywhere.

Not saying they are not trying.

Dees supporters tend to see losses in trial games as unimportant.

I don't they are important to the MFC.

Thanks Jacqui!

[Ouch! 2,263]

Most teams are fitter Ben. Everyone goes up a notch. I agree we may see some improvement in some areas and noticed our contested ball winning ability looked better in those first games, however some aspects of our game never seem to improve and it kills me. Here's a list.

Kick outs

I haven't re-watched the games, but I actually thought on the night our kick outs were pretty good (When Watts and Dunn had the ball in their hands)

I certainly didn't have my heart in my mouth thinking this would be a direct turnover, I also felt that we didn't use the short kick into the pocket as the first option, and as such didn't give the opposition time to block up that side of the ground that has frustrated me so much over the last 4-5 years.

Add Strauss into the group of players that we can use to kick the ball in to our advantage and we have 3 reliable options to kick the ball out. It was only when Frawley took a kick in that I felt myself getting nervous.

TBH I actually felt that it was the next kick from the kick in that was our problem, which is more symptom of a lack of midfield spread that hurt us.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Oucher

[sue 9,107]

Just watched the Richmond game again. When I saw it live I thought we were thoroughly thrashed in the first half. But on a second look it wasn't as bad as I thought. Apologies for being a bit optimistic.

[old dee 23,792]

I've had a chance to watch both games, what it highlighted is we need our best 18 playing and if we don't it will be a long year, our depth is developing and still shallow. I still believe if we have Jones, Sylvia, Grimes, Viney, Toumpas, Rodan, Blease, Trengove and add in Evans running through our midfield we will be able to compete with most teams in the bottom half of the 8, you take 2-3 of these players out we will struggle.

One player that is a concern is Col Garland, I've always had him pencilled in for our best 18 but he is a worry with the ball in his hand, he doesn't seem to have footy smarts and seems to make poor decisions, add that to Nicho, McDonald, MacDonald and Frawley, all the sudden that back 6 which looked to be strong is know a major concern with the footy, defensively OK but we need Jetta, Watts, Strauss and Dunn to hold down 3 of our 4 defensive posts to enable has to attack with confidence of half back.

Renmark will see a very ordinary team, in no way should any player in our best 18 be risked in Renmark, we need to have our 25 players that are in contention for round 1 playing together in the 3rd and 4th rounds of the NAB cup, I don't care if we lose by 100 points in Renmark as long as our players come back healthy.

Sounds like that T word to me

[drdrake 3,178]

Sounds like that T word to me

I will take the CC hit for this one

[old dee 23,792]

I will take the CC hit for this one

"CC Hit" that may go into history as the phrase for the Martyr In football.

[Scoop Junior 3,472]

Just watched the Richmond game again. When I saw it live I thought we were thoroughly thrashed in the first half. But on a second look it wasn't as bad as I thought. Apologies for being a bit optimistic.

I find this is often the case for a big loss. It usually doesn't look as bad when you sit down and watch it again because your expectation has totally dropped away. You expect us to be absolutely hopeless so when you actually see something remotely decent on the replay it tends to alert the mind more than the bad passages of play.

I like watching the replays to see the detail that you can miss watching it live, but in terms of getting an overall feel for the game and how the team performs I think it should be based on the first 'untainted' viewing.

I thought we were decent for three of the four 'halves', but there's no doubt we were well and truly thrashed in the first half against Richmond.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Scoop Junior

[low flying Robbo 979]

He was way too far out to shoot for goal when awarded the free, and I am pretty sure that if you opt to take the 50m (which would take you inside the arc) then you must take the full fifty and must shoot for 6 points only - in other words, even if you pulled up just outside the 50 and took your shot, you would still only be awarded the 6 points.

My understanding was you could take the 50 but if you wanted to go for a supergoal the 50 would stop at the 45m mark and you had to shoot from outside... Dunn had one at the end of the Tigers game too

[DeeZee 7,397]

I just watched the replays as well, and was impressed with the work rate of Kent and Evans,i think these two will surprise in the midfield this year.

[hardtack 10,543]

My understanding was you could take the 50 but if you wanted to go for a supergoal the 50 would stop at the 45m mark and you had to shoot from outside... Dunn had one at the end of the Tigers game too

You may well be right.

[bandicoot 1,395]

Just watched the replay of the North game. Midfield looked ordinary and I honestly believe it will be another year in the bottom 4. Just being realistic. The large number of changes to the playing list will take time to gel. I guess I'm getting a bit disillusioned after the last 6 seasons and am struggling to see light at the end of the tunnel. Have already renewed my membership though and will hope for the best with realistic expectations.

Also just watched the first half.

The following players were running around in the first half for Melbourne that are not in best 22:

Couch

Joel mac

Nicholson

Turlich

Evans

Magner

Seller

Jetta

Richmond on the other hand fielded their best side barring:

Petard

Austin

Maybe I'm looking at the glass half full.

[jackaub 1,402]

Quote:Kick outs

Field kicking

Decision making

Defensive running

Trust

I also watched both games and must admit I was dissappointed with the lack of improvement in these ongoing problem areas

It seems to me we still dont run hard enough in defending turnovers.I hope that we will get better as the team starts playing like a team. It doesnt yet exhibit any natural cohesivness of a good side. Its a bit like watching a group of indiviguals playing to a predetermined structure with no room for natural footy skills ie taking a risk playing the ball as it comes.

Maybe the coaches have seen this as a necesary step in the rebuilding plan.

They just dont loook like they are playing natural intuitive football

[rjay 24,929]

I haven't re-watched the games, but I actually thought on the night our kick outs were pretty good (When Watts and Dunn had the ball in their hands)

I certainly didn't have my heart in my mouth thinking this would be a direct turnover, I also felt that we didn't use the short kick into the pocket as the first option, and as such didn't give the opposition time to block up that side of the ground that has frustrated me so much over the last 4-5 years.

Add Strauss into the group of players that we can use to kick the ball in to our advantage and we have 3 reliable options to kick the ball out. It was only when Frawley took a kick in that I felt myself getting nervous.

TBH I actually felt that it was the next kick from the kick in that was our problem, which is more symptom of a lack of midfield spread that hurt us.

I thought the same and it was the next kick, handball or the contest that was the problem. At least we weren't doing that dinky kick to the pocket and getting tied up so something is being done about the kick in and that's a positive.