The brief to Ray Finkelstein QC: what does it mean for the MFC?

[Guest NoMoreMrNiceGuy]

All Demon fans should be rejoicing at the news, not only because of the legal heavy hitting nature of the fellow, but also because we have quite clearly and publicly let the powers that be know that we will fight tooth and nail if they do decide to go us.

This is very un-Melbourne-like ... and a very welcome change at a footy club that has for too long dutifully played the part of the 90-pound weakling getting sand kicked in its face at the beach.

The off-field generals are now setting the tone for the on-field soldiers to follow. Whether in the courts or across the white line of play, know that we will NO LONGER be pushed around.

Bring on 2013 and F!?#k the Establishment. We are becoming DEMONS at last!!

[Vanilla Gorilla 204]

Yes, it is a good sign in terms of the message it sends to the league. We won't be bullied and pushed around by scare tactics. Take us to trial and see how their evidence stands up then.

The only problem with all of this - how much is it going to cost? Between Casey almost folding and now this, can we afford to be locked in a protracted legal battle? I'd hate to answer that question honestly...

[DEE fence 4,553]

I am very glad the club has retained counsel, i just hope they use it wisely and that all players, staff and administration understand that the hymns that will be sung are those chosen by Mr. Finkelstein. If the club needs to go to the well on this then they should, I'm ready.

[bing181 8,208]

The only problem with all of this - how much is it going to cost?

Less than what it would cost if we did nothing and let the AFL impose whatever fine they wanted?

[bing181 8,208]

Take us to trial and see how their evidence stands up then.

It's an interesting one, with echoes of the Armstrong case where the judge who reviewed the evidence beforehand noted that the case would never stand up in a civil court (too much uncorroborated hearsay, not to mention the complete absence of a smoking gun).

While arbitration in sport doesn't necessarily have the same burden of proof as in a court of law, there still has to be some kind of protection of witnesses, and certainly, as has already been alluded to, justice must be seen to be done. If the AFL investigators have overstepped the mark in their enthusiasm to get a conviction, it may put the AFL's case on shaky ground. Could get interesting.

[Biffen 12,398]

It's an interesting one, with echoes of the Armstrong case where the judge who reviewed the evidence beforehand noted that the case would never stand up in a civil court (too much uncorroborated hearsay, not to mention the complete absence of a smoking gun).

While arbitration in sport doesn't necessarily have the same burden of proof as in a court of law, there still has to be some kind of protection of witnesses, and certainly, as has already been alluded to, justice must be seen to be done. If the AFL investigators have overstepped the mark in their enthusiasm to get a conviction, it may put the AFL's case on shaky ground. Could get interesting.

This is different to Lance Armstrong .There is proof and testimony that he systematically doped.

All we have is a witch hunt looking for issues that dont exist , in a flawed system .

It's funny that the AFL has chosen an expert in human trafficking as their tough guy.(For what is the draft but a supermarket of boys )

Barry Prendegast can at least claim total and utter ignorance , insanity, and stupidity in his case .

[ickey_11 145]

What I dislike about this whole process is the access the press have to the investigation and who they speak to.

[Moonshadow 16,367]

We may recoup our legal costs from the payout after we sue CW for defamation.

[Wilbur 447]

We may recoup our legal costs from the payout after we sue CW for defamation.

Music to my ears! i would prefer that she got a large pie in the face

[Soidee 1,496]

This bunch of cowboy investigators will be ripped apart by a decent Barrister. If true regarding the practices used to get information, they are operating as if they worked in the 1920s. The world has changed and so has the standard of investigating wrongdoing.

If I was the AFL I would be very wary of ex cops with inflated CVs.

[nutbean 8,837]

I think this is as much about dick waving as it is about legal process.

I think it sends a clear message to the AFL that you can profess to be an autonomous,self governed body all you like but if you think for a nano second that you can deliver a verdict of guilt on evidence that wouldnt stand up in a court of law with 8 tonnes of concrete supports then think again. It sorta like having a 6'7" muscled, toothless bouncer out the front of the night club - he doesnt need to throw a punch - no-one is silly enough to take him in on.

[jnrmac 19,265]

The only problem with all of this - how much is it going to cost?

A lot less than the AFL fines if we get pinged

[jnrmac 19,265]

Wow. two AFL investigators allegedly bullying staff like some b grade cop show. What powers do these clowns have to do that and are are guys allowed to be represented by legal advisors?

Evidence gathered like that in any normal police investigation would be inadmissible.

[monoccular 16,327]

This bunch of cowboy investigators will be ripped apart by a decent Barrister. If true regarding the practices used to get information, they are operating as if they worked in the 1920s. The world has changed and so has the standard of investigating wrongdoing.

If I was the AFL I would be very wary of ex cops with inflated CVs.

I just love the line about the tapes being switched on and off at will......how about a Royal Commission into the AFL....screw Dimitriou, Misfit, Anderson and the bloody lot of them!! :_)

[olisik 4,060]

People with biased opinions here. One minute everything CW writes is crap twisted and exagerrated. The next they are buying into her comments about investigator tactics.

[Redleg 37,930]

Wow. two AFL investigators allegedly bullying staff like some b grade cop show. What powers do these clowns have to do that and are are guys allowed to be represented by legal advisors?

Evidence gathered like that in any normal police investigation would be inadmissible.

Are you sure about that?

[sue 8,472]

People with biased opinions here. One minute everything CW writes is crap twisted and exagerrated. The next they are buying into her comments about investigator tactics.

The fact that the above is your contribution at this stage adds credibility to what a lot of posters' have said about your motives.

What you say is true, but when a person who has been pushing line X for months, starts to say not-X things and even anti-X things, it is not unreasonable to put some credence in the back-pedalling info.

[71 Molloy 266]

Sounds like 'bad cop, worse cop'.

[diesel 420]

People with biased opinions here. One minute everything CW writes is crap twisted and exagerrated. The next they are buying into her comments about investigator tactics.

If this is an accurate reflection of how 'evidence ' was gathered against the MFC, evidence which Caro Wilson then INTERPRETED to convict and punish the club and its officials then that is a refection of her bias and/or ineptitude which a lot of us have been trying to point out.

No one is cheering on her writing, it's just that the article contains the first beginnings of some balance in her reporting of the allegations.

[hardtack 10,127]

Wow. two AFL investigators allegedly bullying staff like some b grade cop show. What powers do these clowns have to do that and are are guys allowed to be represented by legal advisors?

Evidence gathered like that in any normal police investigation would be inadmissible.

Maybe they thought the "G" in "MCG" stood for "Guantanamo"?

[hardtack 10,127]

No one is cheering on her writing, it's just that the article contains the first beginnings of some balance in her reporting of the allegations.

AKA backing down while attempting to minimise loss of face.

[olisik 4,060]

The fact that the above is your contribution at this stage adds credibility to what a lot of posters' have said about your motives.

What you say is true, but when a person who has been pushing line X for months, starts to say not-X things and even anti-X things, it is not unreasonable to put some credence in the back-pedalling info.

It is a fair contribution. I recall not reading anything about people saying things about my motives. Care to elaborate or provide a specific example to what you just said?

At risk of derailing I want to say please don't make speculative posts, leave that to CW.

[daisycutter 28,663]

I want a Royal Commission

It's that or there will be anarchy on the streets

vive les démons

[Bitter but optimistic 21,486]

I want a Royal Commission

It's that or there will be anarchy on the streets

vive les démons

Or? How about we get the Catholic Church to run the enquiry?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,511]

...

This is very un-Melbourne-like ... and a very welcome change at a footy club that has for too long dutifully played the part of the 90-pound weakling getting sand kicked in its face at the beach.

...

It helps to be less reliant than previously on AFL handouts. I'm not sure I'd be that keen on biting the hand that feeds me. Debt demolition has done a lot more than just shore up our financial position. It's allowed us more freedom to act unilaterally.