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Problem for most around here is you can’t handle criticism of the Dee’s. The fact we’re largely going into the season with the bulk of our forwards with little or no preseason, an aging ruck who we lean way too heavily on and a fullback who’s 32 certainly has me concerned. We’ve also got a tough draw.

He says Melbourne were ''shown up in the finals''. That is patent nonsense. They dominated Carlton in most of the general play, but didn't close the door and lost by 2 points. They won most metrics, i.e. clearances, contested possessions, etc. They had 69 inside 50s to Collingwood's 37. They had 8 more scoring shots and they also dominated contested possessions, contested marks, marks inside 50, clearances, etc., before managing to lose by 7 points. It's obviously infuriating to lose two games we should have won, but we certainly weren't ''shown up''. Not having either Petty or van Rooyen for both games also didn't help, but naturally that gets overlooked.

This bloke amazes me. For a Hawthorn supporter his knowledge of our mob is extraordinary. Anyways, no great insights here but I thought demonlanders would be interested in some of his observations from the match sim. Kynan Brown – Well, what do we have here? Kicked a couple of goals, was busy around the packs and had a couple of really good front-and-centre gathers to keep the footy moving. The Dees have Pickett, but when he moves into the guts, that second smaller forward role is one that has let them down. They’ve had Charlie Spargo, or Kade Chandler… but they really haven’t done it for me. Thumbs up. Brown kind of did it for me in this game. Caleb Windsor – A mixed bag from him. Has an elite tank, and was still running the wings deep into the fourth quarter, which was great, but some of his disposals were… well, they were ****ty. I think that’ll be ironed out as he becomes more accustomed to the speed of the game, but he threw his body in, won the ball, and just let himself down with disposal, at times. It can be fixed, but you cannot teach someone to win the footy the way he was winning it. Thumbs up from me. And on Kozzie - Geez, he looked dangerous in this one. Kysaiah… not Marlion, although Marlion had a few good moments, as well. Whether forward or in the middle, Kysaiah looked dangerous every time he was near the footy. Whether it was his tackling pressure early in the game, his efforts to win back-to-back-to-back clearances in the third quarter, or leaping into the stratosphere to almost drag in the preseason mark of the year, Pickett gave the 3-4K at Casey Fields plenty to ooh and ahh about. Did the Dees get the mix right with him running through the midfield? It felt about right. He was effective while in there and pushed forward hard without hitting the scoreboard. I reckon a 50/50 split is the ideal for him. He adds so much irrespective of where he plays… I reckon Simon Goodwin wishes he had a couple of him. And JvR - Really liked the early attack on the footy from Jacob Van Rooyen. He was hard at it and both presented on the lead and crashed packs several times in the first half. Looked like he ran out of puff a little in the second half, but seems to be the best marking target the Dees have inside fifty at the moment, and attacks the ball like he knows it. May V Balta - And I touched on the work of Noah Balta above, but I need to give credit to Steven May for the way he worked back into the game after the main break. His tussle with Balta was a brilliant watch, with both guys matching up very well throughout the contest. May took the third quarter points after Balta got the first two. Balta hit the bench to start the fourth and didn’t return – a well earned rest. And finally... As for the Dees, there is enough to work with that Simon Goodwin won’t be pressing the panic button just yet. He’s got Clayton Oliver to come back in, and he started the fifth period by grabbing two touches, including a clearance in the first 40 seconds. They’ll be fine. My two bob's worth is that the match sim was disappointing because the old forward issues were still evident, but I did enjoy Brown's game and Verrall's leap was something to behold. He may offer us something special in a year or two. Viney was brilliant, Kozzie dynamic and Max has lost nothing, but our pressure was not there and it looked like it was just a hit out from our perspective. With a few on this site tearing their hair out over a game for which no points were on offer I thought mongrel punt's closing three word sentence might offer some comfort.

I don't disagree with what he says at all. Even though we made Top 4 the last 2 years, I have to say that there weren't many games that I didn't go home feeling underwhelmed at the performance - even though we might have got the win. Winning ugly is all very well to get the Top 4 opportunity, but you need to back that up where it matters - so far we haven't. It felt at the games, over the last couple of years, as though it was a real slog for the players. Where there was a real freedom and joy in the way the team played in 2021, the past two years have seemed very heavy and burdensome (I get that we had a target on our backs in 2022). I'm not sure what the answer is, by the way, although I believe we should be using Kozzy in a Bobby Hill type role. Hopefully, in Billings and Windsor, we have recruited some better ball users, although we can't load Windsor up with expectation at this stage. It will be interesting to see if there is a marked difference in game style this year - certainly something needs to freshen up, to put a bit of spark back: at the moment, to me, it all feels a bit stale.

One of the commentators must have said this 3 or 4 times in the tigers game. Did my head in. Its not untrue I guess, but we made top 4 in the last THREE seasons. For pete's sake, in 2021 we finished the home and away season on top of the ladder and won the bloody flag. Third in 2022 and 4th last year. Not having a shot at you 3183 (i am at the commentator, and Barlow who didn't correct him once), but it is a pretty relevant ommisoon if used as a factor in how we are assessed. Yes we have gone out in straight sets in the last two finals, but three top 4s in succession and a flag is impressive by any measure surely.

We all should respect a guy who has been so generous to the club we love for so long. He really deserves more than a building at Casey named after his family .

Well Matthew, I've been worried about Essendon since 2001. Oh wait, no I haven't. I don't give a [censored] about them.

Why isn’t anybody talking about this?

I think he made some good points and agree with most of what he said.

I’ve got us finishing top 4 again. Best defence last 3 years. We’ve got too much talent not too. It won’t look pretty early but we’ll be banking wins, and as the season goes on our fwd line will take shape leading into a barnstorming run into the finals leading ultimately into our 2nd flag in four years.

prior to this last three years, no one born before 1962 has seen the dees finish top 4 at the end of the home and away season in three consecutive like everyone, i want to 'bank' this successful era with another flag (or four) but to at least see us being consistently competitive is a far cry of anything we've witnessed over the last 60 or so years

Fit enough but Billings historically hasn't done the hard stuff was my impression. As soon as the Saints stopped allowing passengers on defense he struggled to get a game. Personally I'd give up the extra 4 pressure acts and 2 tackle a game as the 2nd HFF if he can hit McAdam or BF inside 50 once or twice a game. We kick 1 more goal per game last year we have a percentage of 130+ and the number 1 offensive team, the margins are that slim.

Cause this gives people no reason to whinge.

Thank you to David Thurin and his family, who have donated in excess of $1 Million to the club. The facility is elite. Campus 1 complete, Campus 2 loading.

Amazing, thank you to David Thurin, his family, and those generous Tridents. Hoping they get the rewards of the club staying more than competitive on the field, for at least this generation. A great benefit for the players, coaches, and as Wayne Russell mentioned the community.

The media want us to fail so their favourites can succeed. It's all about building a narrative.

That will keep me awake. LOL

We were shown up September does not lie Incredibly wasteful in the forward line we should have won both games but failed. I am concerned the Senior Coach has no back up plan, against good opponents.

Missing finals for me. I think we’ll finish around the 10th to 12th mark. For me, it’s not the off-field stuff it’s the lack of upcoming talent in key positions and injuries. May will be on his last legs by season’s end, Gawn will be exhausted and our lack of leg speed off the half back line will really be exposed. This competition moves at break neck speed and there’s quite a few teams that will unfortunately leap frog us.

I can only go by what I have seen so far and that doesn’t bode well for us when you consider injuries and the off season drama. Whilst the option wasn’t there I have us somewhere in 6-10. Which if recent history tells us anything is only 2 wins and some % points between those positions . Compared to 16 wins in 2023, I think we will drop a few more this year and end up 11-12 mark. Given the extra round this year puts us at risk at missing finals.

Indeed. Shown up? Please. In addition to not having petty and jvr, we didnt have melk available Melk not only would have negated the pies and blues intercept strengths, as one of our best kicks surely would have made a better fist of his scoring opportunities than some of his teammates. And of course losing Gus for all but 7 mins of the pies game, and the clear psychological impact of that incident on the team for a good quater and a half, was another huge factor. How would have the pies gone without Mihocek, Elliot and Johnson (I know mcstay was out, bur so was tmac and brown)?

Windsor a spud? WTF, Tomlinson is no spud either, I hate that term of calling payers spuds.

Fantastic effort by many devoted MFC club and family members over an extended period. Casey Fields continues to improve as a playing & training venue. The whole complex offers a wonderful facility for a variety of sportspeople, local and beyond.

it's really sad matthew is worried get well soon matthew 💔

I didn't ask Fullarton (or Spargo) when he would be back, I simply said, "looking forward to seeing you out there", to which both replied, "I'll be back next week". Time will tell, however, I think the injury to Fullarton was not as severe as was reported.

I’m worried too… as I am every year :D

It might have felt that way, but its not the case that virtually every ball was bombed in. If it was the case it would be reflected in the shots at goal data (also in the charts that show inside 50 entries and where goals were kicked from, which I've seen but couldn't find with a quick search). Given how infrequently we jagged pack marks in those games (or any games really, given how hard it is to take a pack mark these days) and factoring in goals from free kicks and pings from 40 -60 metres, if we bombed it long to a pack say 90% of the time, logic suggests the numbers would be something like: 70% of scores from general play (eg crumbing packs, stoppage goals, running shots etc) 30% from set shots (marks, usually one out or on the lead, and frees). In the blues finals loss we were aprox 50% from general play and set shots. In our loss to the Pies, a game that was high pressure and slippery, we were aprox 40% from general play and 60% from set shots. Shots at goal Team Shots G B T Acc. General Play Melbourne 15 4 9 33 26.7 Carlton 8 3 2 20 37.5 Set Position Melbourne 13 5 6 36 38.5 Carlton 13 8 4 52 61.5 Team Shots G B T Acc. General Play Melbourne 9 3 3 21 33.3 Collingwood 4 2 2 14 50.0 Set Position Melbourne 14 4 5 29 28.6 Collingwood 11 7 3 45 63.6 The bottom line is our method works. Which is why other teams employ it, just at the tigers did yesterday - which is no surprise since they are the originators of the when in doubt get territory strategy that, with pressure, is the foundation of the game circa 2024. It was our accuracy that failed us in the finals not our method.

I still think we're pretty comfortably in the best 4 teams barring a bad run with injuries so i've got us top 4. i honestly don't think we're that far off being the benchmark again, if we see a 20% improvement in our efficiency inside 50 and our conversion i think we're playing in a grand final.

Last warning. Next person to mention Joel Smith and off-field issue will receive a ban. No more warnings.

Is this a combination between Robinson Crusoe and the great Italian opera singer Enrico Caruso?

That won’t be answered until the end of the season around Round24 or during the Finals. I also think some folks are short on memory. 2022 was the niggling injuries to a fair percentage of our troops resulting in fitness issues playing out the last half. 2023 undoubtedly was our injuries to forwards and our failure to take our chances primarily in connectivity and accuracy. Now for 2024 to change that we need a good season with medium to low injuries especially our key and star forwards and that bit of luck that seems to go with all AFL premiership winners.

Presumably that's Thurin son of Thrain, King under the Mountain and deliverer of Erebor alongside the wizard Gawndalf?

Nope, don't like Salem in the guts; his best strength is back flank for mine, he knows the Lever/May/McVee routines and clears well to position - particularly when fit or free to make running space with the ball. Some backline shepherding would help, as would run-on either side. Defensively, he's quite good at spoils and intercepts, tagging the man and short clearances to expectant and moving receivers. The backline needs him in these roles bringing more 'team' to their responsibilities onfield.

From memory, on predicted score we were something like plus 20 against the blues in the finals, plus 12 against the Pies and plus 15 against the blues in the home and away game. Cant recall the others, but in the praccy match just gone i suspect the final score pretty much reflected the expected score. BBB's questions - just a coincidence or the oppo getting easier shots at goal on us? - are reasonable. I think the answers are that, no its not a coincidence and no the oppo is not getting easier shots at goal on us (with the exception of the first quarter and a half against the Pies when we lost our defensive shape and they got some easy slingshot goals - hence the high number of set shots on goal they kicked). So why the differential? Applying Occams' razor, the answer is our kicking skills are below AFL average. This is exacerbated by our three best players - Oliver, Trac and maxy - all being woeful shots at goals. By contrast the Pies three best players Nick Daicos, Degoey and Sidebottom/Pendlebury are all brilliant kicks for goals, as is their ruck, Cox. Kicking is our Achilles heal (foot?) and has been for 15 years at least i reckon.

Ed is definitely not the human dynamo that he was up until mid ‘22, he suffered a pretty nasty rib injury and hasn’t reached his previous heights since. It’s not that long ago when Ed was very highly rated on this site and around the club, he was discussed regularly in the Wingers club on the Gus & Gawny podcast and polled regular votes on the DLand best player award. I really hope for Langers and us that he can regain his A grade game. At 28 he should be at his peak??

Re Oliver, I'm glad his personal issues haven't been published as I can only see that as being detrimental to him. The constant reference to it is unfortunate but won't go away until he plays consistently and shows stable behaviour off the field. Re Laurie, his game was nowhere near as bad as some made it out to be and he showed signs he has the tools to make it at AFL level. He's running has improved and is making it to more contests and winning more of the footy, as well as transitioning into defensive 50 on the turnover. He's just becoming the new whipping boy because he's a first round pick that has barely played and isn't collecting 30 touches and kicking 2-3 goals a game on the hff. He had a couple howlers and a humorous side step against no one when he thought a player was bearing down on him. Otherwise he used the ball cleanly, particularly by hand in the first half, and kicked well into the forward 50 that a couple players dropped or were defended well by the Tigers defence. Would have liked to see him go back and kick the set shot rather than attempt to spot up Fritsch in the goal square. Windsor butchered the ball, McVee had some howlers, Lever and May's kicking were shocking (as was Mays marking), Sparrow was dropping easy marks, Howes was outpositioned multiple times in defense, langdon was barely sighted, anb was ineffective in the centre square... I could go on. But no, Laurie is the whipping boy.

With our season spread over 25 weeks (23 games plus two byes), plus two additional on two weeks of practise games, the club has a long season to keep players fresh and uninjured. @binman does the approach to the weekends game show an evolving strategy to player management from the club, compared to previous years? There was some changes made last year following 2022 after a lot of players ended the year banged up and sore. This year's fixture presents more opportunities for extended rest and [looks over shoulder] loading, where '22 and '23 did not. This question is really a tee up for Binman to further soothe your MFCSS @Demonland - you shouldn't let the result or performance trigger you too badly.

I do find the use of 'well documented' referring to Oliver's issues interesting. They are not at all well documented. There is no clear public insight into what his 'issues' are and there has only been enormous waves of speculation. Ask yourself; do I actually have any real knowledge of Clayton Oliver's personal circumstances? It irks me that there's this atmosphere of 'we all know about Clayton, mm-hmm.' I mean, at this stage the only thing we really know is that he has been an absolute professional with training standards while away from the group and has come back in excellent condition and full touch, ready to win a Brownlow in 2024. The 'Bailey Laurie watch' part of the article confuses me as he was canned on here in the match sim thread and multiple clear examples were given... could it be the AFL website people might be mistaken about him "impressing in Sunday's match simulation with his strength inside the contest and clean ball use."

He's been worried about us since 2022 and is definitely not a fan of our football.

yep. 100% God help us if we lose to the Swans in the zero round by 7 goals. The media will be dancing in the streets.

The Dees have some woes inside forward 50 given that Tom McDonald (calf), Harrison Petty (toe) and Ben Brown (knee) are currently sidelined with injury but Cornes is not perturbed by that as he feels Van Rooyen is the answer. “Every time I see Van Rooyen play, he impresses me,” Cornes said on SEN Breakfast. “I don't know if we've made enough of him. I know the crowd (loves him), the big ‘Roooooooo’, and we love watching him. “He's not even 21 and every time I see him play I’m like, ‘you are everything I want for my team's key forward’. He’s aggressive, he leads to the logos, he crashes packs, he's a bit rough around the edges and there's a couple of things that he would need to tidy up in his game, but he's not even 21. “He's played one season. So the sky's the absolute limit for this young man.” Melbourne has had McDonald and Brown (and of course Bayley Fritsch) return 30-plus goal seasons in red and blue in recent seasons, but Cornes thinks Van Rooyen is the player they haven’t had since the Jesse Hogan days. He also feels the Demons should have traded Petty to Adelaide late last year due to Van Rooyen’s presence. “I just think Melbourne would have been searching for that player for so long. You've found it, don't worry about it, don't go searching, you've found it now,” he added. “I think they should have traded Petty and absolutely loaded up. He will never be worth more to them than what he was in trade period last year. “I don't know if he (Petty) is a forward, but Van Rooyen is and I just love watching him play.” ------------------------- I think Kane is missing the point in that JVR needs backup. With BBB and TMac on the way out, with Petty very likely to leave at years end, Schache probably not up to it and Jefferson still raw, JVR needs a solid partner in crime otherwise he will get double teamed.

I chatted with someone in the know at training a couple of weeks ago and indicated that as you suspect, opposing clubs normally let a father-son prospect slide through if they are not top-end talent, hence how we got him easily. This club contact really rated the way he plays and also commented on his character being first rate. No surprise being the son of Doggy. A lot to like about him.

I still think it’s a bit strange the Kynan was rated so low given that he’s performed so well and there could be a bit of egg on other club’s faces. He has clean hands, great lateral movement, good vision, he’s quick enough, his disposal is acceptable, he has a great record of performance in underage competition, he’s stepped up whenever he’s gone up a level and most importantly he’s of very good character ( if we are to believe reports). Why he was only ever rated as a rookie chance I don’t know. My suspicion is that he wasn’t rated in the top 40 or so and other clubs just let him go to us. Whatever the reason we’ve benefited from our good fortune as he’s certainly impressed, and not only in the match against Richmond but in all the preseason training where many, including me, have been impressed. On exposed form this year he’s ahead of Langdon who was terrible against Richmond and looked totally disinterested. I reckon he’s right in the running for round zero.

CCCClllllaaaarrrriiiieeeee!

How can you say that with the way he played on Curnow in the last quarter of the semi final? He was extraordinary, almost carried us to a win