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Oliver is a very tough unrelenting footballer. He shows that you can be this while remaining a sportsman and without being a thug or a sniper.

Voted the most selfless player in our premiership year. Rolled Brayshaw onto his side before the trainers or medical staff did when Brayshaw was unconcious. He epitomises what is great about our club.

This is how the media narrative works. And its not just footy. 1. John Ralph makes unsubstantiated anonymous comments from 'senior officials' at melbourne 2.Fox prints comments in their online story 3.55 different commentators who are looking for content write a story or make comments about Melbourne 'whinging', whining' their 'fragile state' etc 4. It is set in stone that Melbourne are weak mentally, are fragile etc [insert adjective] 5. Campbell Brown is a Richard 6. Media narrative created 7. Who cares

Wouldn't cost much but he turns 67 next week. If we're going for someone older I'd prefer Lynch.

no. it’s the opposite.

Smith kicked 3 goals straight and had one taken away from him from Kozzie's stupidity. What do you mean he doesn't have the smarts? He's locked into our 22 if he continues this form and applies tackling pressure.

Also noted Joel Smith's sincere concern for Weitering after the throat knock. Lingered with him, patiently helped him up. The body language was eloquent. We're definitely the good guys. Will make climbing to being great again all the sweeter.

Very different players and experiences, but the way some are overrating JJ reminds me of the way some overrated Frost on here, when many of us were saying we wouldn't miss him. The same goes for JJ. He might have some handy games in the future, but he's no Oliver, Petracca, Viney, Brayshaw or even Sparrow.

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A general comment reading this entire thread. My take at least is that I felt we did show backbone throughout the season, consistently. Goodwin and co had to go back to the well numerous times to reinvent the forwardline due to injuries. Outcomes are not a measure effort, or 'backbone' - but we are indoctrinated into a belief that those that work the hardest get the rewards. And outcomes are never guaranteed, doesnt mean its not painful though In today's world of click-bait headlines and sound-byte journalism, our society, more than ever, thrives on the binary. It's a win-or-lose mentality, and nowhere is this more evident than in the world of AFL media. Too often, the media, in its pursuit for engagement, adopts an exceedingly simplistic approach to analyzing the complex dynamics of the game. A team's performance on any given day is boiled down to mere outcomes – victory or defeat, heroics or blunders. The multifaceted nature of preparation, team dynamics, strategy, individual performances, and sheer unpredictability of the game often get lost in this binary view. If a team wins, every decision leading up to that moment was right; if they lose, every choice was wrong. Players are lauded as invincible heroes one week, only to be derided athe next. There's little room for nuance. Equating outcomes directly with success or failure is a dangerous misstep. I'll contrast it with parenting.. (not sure why, but it makes sense to me) Imagine for a moment if parents adopted the same black-and-white thinking with their children as the AFL media does with the Dees (or whoever) If a child came home with a failed math test, would a supportive parent label them a failure outright? Or would they try to understand what went wrong, provide guidance, and encourage effort and improvement? They face challenges, setbacks, and triumphs. A parent knows that defining a child's worth or potential based on one test or one moment is not only unfair but damaging. They understand that resilience, effort, perseverance, and learning 😀 are more critical indicators of long-term success than any single outcome. Of course this approach 'doesnt sell papers'. As a society, we'd never tolerate such behavior towards children (humans???), so I'd invite you to take a step back when reading things that are not nuanced and are black and white. If you are feeling inflamed by Campbell (or whomever, at any given point in time) - just remember. You are the product.

Who cares? How that guy has a job after his consistent poor behaviour tells you everything you need to know about standards in the media. He’s beyond irrelevant, and just got a job because of his dad.

Reasonable comments Wells. What worries me the most is to see the young talent and progress of the other clubs particularly those in the top half. There is serious talent out there characterised by pace, skill and energy. Characteristics that we have lacked this year. The clubs that are ahead of us all appear to have better young talent than we do. And young talent on the rise. We need new blood. So our drafting, development and blooding of youth will be key. Despite our resilience, at times we have lacked energy and flair. We look like the team that has climbed the mountain rather than a team that is desperate for another flag. We have looked stale not fresh. So 2024 is going to a challenging season, one critical to our progress and the recognition that we are one of the top clubs.

What a dumb thing to say

I don't think you need to write off the forwards on our list quite yet. JVR and Jefferson are both quality young players. They just need another couple of years to build their bodies and turn into AFL footballers. I would expect Jefferson to play in the seniors at some point next year. His mobility and athleticism are a good foil for JVR. If we use Petty as the primary KPF, they could both work off him and impact games. That being said, the elephant in the room is that our forward line problems aren't about the players. It's all about the gameplan, or more accurately, the lack of a plan to score goals. We default to either a bomb to the "hot spot" or a chip to the pocket, two spectacularly low-percentage plays. Our forwards don't move, they don't work for each other, they have no tactics in use to create space for each other so we can take marks in threatening positions. This is entirely on the coaches and it needs to be addressed far more than whether we have the players.

Pies and GWS who I’d have last because I’m not fully buying the Hogan resurgence - kicking still suspect, but in great marking form at the moment. Very much agree Mihocek is underrated, but JVR has all the same traits. Petty and JVR can both clunk marks and contribute on the ground, if they can play together consistently they’ll improve rapidly. Agree on what’s around the Pies guys but with Fritsch, Pickett, Tracc and soon to be McAdam we’ll have dangerous forwards. We need a playable second ruck, we need a depth tall back up. If we spend 2-3 first rounders on guys who make the ball move better up the field (be they mids, backs or half forwards) the tall forwards will have a lot easier time of it.

We were basically denied 3 goals….. The Neal Bullen “touched”. The obvious front on interference on Smith, directly in front of goal, in Q1. The reversal after Smith’s good mark in front, when Pickett and McGovern jumper pushed each other in the upper chest. Also, but less definite,late in the last quarter Viney was thrown off the ball during a scrimmage in our goal-square. Does anyone know what the free was for, against Oliver in Q4, in our forward pocket?(when he was given a millisecond to move back, but penalised 50 metres for not stepping back fast enough.) Compare that to the non-50 metres when he was retarded in the centre after marking in Q4. It seems we were unlucky repeatedly with 50:50 decisions, so we lost by 2 points and are branded “chokers”, while every Carlton player is a gutsy champion.

Quality thread, you should do a 'Christmas special' starting line-up too and one every week from then until Round 1!

Let's be honest, Campbell Brown has skin in the game when it comes to insisting head injuries are no big deal. Both on and off the field, if I recall correctly. With thanks to Reddit; THE CAMPBELL BROWN RAP SHEET Charges: 14 Guilty: 13 Matches suspended: 29 Fines: $6,400 Suspensions One week for striking Brett Montgomery (Port), R3, 2004 Four weeks for striking Jason Winderlich (Ess), R11, 2004 Four weeks for striking Matthew Lloyd (Ess), R20, 2005 Two weeks for striking Lynden Dunn (Melb), NAB Cup 2007 Two weeks for charging Matthew Kreuzer (Carl), NAB Cup 2008 Two weeks for striking Nick Dal Santo (StK), R17, 2010 Two weeks for forceful front-on contact on Barry Hall (WB), R3, 2011 Two weeks for striking Callan Ward (WB), R3, 2011 Six weeks for forceful front-on contact on Aidan Riley (Adel), R23, 2012 Four weeks for unnecessary contact to the face of James Strauss (Melb), R20, 2013 Off-field issues 2005: Dropped for one week by Hawthorn coach Alastair Clarkson as punishment for breaking a convenience store window after Luke Hodge's 21st birthday party. 2007: Fined $15,000 for giving misleading evidence to the AFL Tribunal in a bid to help Chris Judd escape a misconduct charge. 2011: Stripped of leadership position at the Suns after being detained by police in Thailand following an altercation during an end-of-season trip. He was released without charge. 2013: Sacked after fracturing the jaw of teammate Steven May in an altercation in Los Angeles. Oh, yes, here we go. Small world. https://www.afl.com.au/news/58998/gold-coast-sacks-campbell-brown-after-assault-on-teammate-steven-may

I have 3 big concerns going into 2024 and beyond, in no particular order: 1 - We are in desperate need of skill, from HBF through to FF. There’s only 2 blokes I’d put in the elite category with field kicking, Bowza and Salem. Unfortunately, due to injury, Salem has not been fit enough to get the required space to use it. He’s spent the year dump kicking. Collingwood, Brisbane and GWS all play very attacking games based on skill. Aside from being much better to watch, it’s more natural for players and I think it would gain a lot more ‘buy in’ from a group. 2 - Burn out. I think our game plan is too physically taxing to sustain for 3-4-5 years in a row. We’ve made slight tweaks but it still revolves around an enormous amount of effort across the board. Physically and mentally, I think our guys have lacked a bit of zip all year. No doubt the effects of consecutive straight sets exits will add to this. 3 - Gameplan. We have a very defensively minded gameplan and yet it’s still extremely susceptible to being opened up. We have beaten teams that employ faster, more attacking game plans but they are still there and we aren’t. Yes, there is luck, injuries and dodgy umpiring but at the end of the day it’s bloody hard to win and even harder if you aren’t there. I think the easiest way to address these issues is much the same as everyone else. Draft mids that can kick the ball exceptionally well. Bring change to the coaching panel. Allow ourselves to take more risk, across the entire organisation. Everywhere we look, we are playing it safe.

Part of society’s malaise in general. It’s dumbing down. We’re all at fault too because we play along with it, willing partners in the idiocy of the Campbell Browns of the world. Meanwhile, an actual intelligence person - Rohan Connolly - wrote a brilliant piece on our finals failure and future prospects for ESPN. https://footyology.com.au/where-to-now-for-melbourne-and-port-adelaide/ No-one starts a Demonland thread on it because it’s not ‘outrageous’ or ‘controversial’ enough.

All that death riding of Freo now just seems a waste purely with North compensation. Absolute joke. Didn't realise McKay had turned into Steven Silvagni ll of a sudden.

We enquired about Jacob Koschitze in the past. Showed a lot of potential in 2021 and 2022 before having an interrupted and disappointing 2023. He might be gettable very cheap. Only 23 years old and perfect size at 198cm and 96kgs. Can clunk and a mark. We should enquire again…

Tom Lynch could join TMac and BBB in the AFL’s most expensive forward line rehab group. We can’t take the risk on a bloke getting paid a million a year coming back from a bad foot injury. That’d be insanity.

I don't know if this has been brought up (sorry if it has somewhere else but ice buried my head in the sand after Friday). How Weitering wasn't taken off or put under concussion protocol astounds me. He shouldnt be playing this week. Rules for some different rules for others? The AFL is corrupt

The football world has the right to call us whatever they want at the moment. It's our job to respond on the field next year.

Let's hope Adams becomes next years McVee...

What an interesting topic. If someone had asked me ...what one quality do you think Melbourne needs more of ?.. I would have answered RESILIENCE. We choked. Anyone want to argue otherwise ?? When you do such you WILL attract such commentary that questions fragility. That's just going to happen. Ive no particular time for the little annoying dweeb... but I do entertain we got done over. And that's between the ears...as we struggle to get between the posts. What is...IS. The club needs to deal with this. It's real. We went out in straight sets.....twice... nit because we were thoroughly beaten..... but because we couldnt win....even though we essentially had. I dont have a problem with what any in the media say... let them. We stuffed up, let's do better. Let's be more resilient.

60% game time, 10 possessions and 1 tackle. Zero impact as Gus's replacement. I think it was an opportunity to make a statement and he did.

Let’s be honest we are a soft target. Right now we deserve the criticism that is coming our way. We are also a very “nice club” that doesn’t like to rock the boat which also makes us an easy target. I would like for us to as a club openly stand up for ourselves and fly the flag a bit more than we do whether it be umpiring, tribunal decisions, facility funding. But honestly supporters getting precious or offended by people in the media criticising our Demons or Gary Lyon not sticking up for the club instead of calling them out is symptomatic of our soft underbelly. Honestly who gives a [censored] about the outside noise. It’s up to is as a club to change the narrative.

Do we need a new thread everytime some ex player lays the boot in while we’re down and out?

His performance last Friday showed us why he’d struggle to get a consistent game in our side. He was just ok but he isn’t damaging. He’s behind Oliver, Viney, Trac, Gus and Sparrow. That’s a lot of talent to sit behind and hope something changes.

No way !!!!

So if one of those three shots at goal that hit the post went through the goals, it would have been Carlton that’s fragile. We lost to Collingwood, one of the premiership favourites, by 7 points and beat them the time before that in mid season. We also beat Brisbane, the other favourite. That doesn’t suggest fragility to me. The only thing that’s fragile is the unhinged arguments put forward by this [censored].

Solid citizen.

We are any easy target. All the mob of morons are lining up Jon Ralph Damien Barrett Matthew Lloyd Caroline Wilson Kane Cornes and now the beachball Campbell Brown Time to show the backbone throughout ‘24.

I saw this and thought the same. What a jerk. Is it me or are people really coming out of the woodwork to have a crack at us. I’m not sure I have ever seen this type of attack on a club before. I think about the Cats PF struggles, Sydney and GWS capitulation in GF and even the Doggies with that talented list missing out. What am I missing here? Why is there so much disdain for our club?

Nup Hunter is far better than Jordon. It's just considered cool to dislike Hunter on this site. Also, Langdon was more disappointing than Hunter this year but seems to escape criticism a lot more easily.

I think it's worth asking the question and I hope you don't get panned too much for asking it. On my lunchtime walk just now I was literally thinking this. Making the top 4 is extremely difficult, I feel that now we are accustomed to these successful home and away seasons that we just assume we’ll automatically be back there again next year. The reality set in today that there is absolutely no guarantee of this. There are a heap of teams around us getting better, Carlton have put their name in lights, Bris and Collingwood won’t go away, Dogs and Freo could get it together and Sydney could be back with a bang. Then there’s the potential bolters, I have a real feeling that Adelaide are not only going play finals next year but make a serious play for the top 4. The reality is that teams are improving and a place in the 4 isn’t owned by us. On the other hand it is pretty amazing to me how our game style has managed to hold up in the past two seasons(Home and away). I wouldn’t have been surprised if we’d taken a step back after the flag but you have to say it’s impressive. Gut feel right now (and I preface this by saying right now it could change after trade and draft and when depression has subsided) is that 2 straight sets exits will weigh heavily. I’d say we play finals next year but miss top 4. I get ribbed a bit sometimes for using Soccer comparisons but in 2022 when Liverpool were competing for a domestic title and were in the European Champions League final, they ended up my Man City then dominated the first half of the Champions League Final only to not take their chances and lose to Real Madrid 1-0 who had one shot on target the whole game. This knocked the stuffing out of them and along with some other issues I think it contributed to their nose dive in the EPL last year. I don’t want to be negative but I can see a world where this happens to us, the honeymoon period of 2021 is well and truly over. Alternatively I can see us rebound stronger with a few new inclusions and tweaks to the already successful game plan. Will cross fingers every week for minimal injuries. I'm hopeful, but I will temper my expectations. At the start of 22 and 23 I expected to make a PF bare minimum and was convinced there was another flag in the list, I'm not so sure right now. Then again I also do better when my expectations are tempered, some people can shoot for the moon but it just raises the bar too high and increases the margin for disappointment. I love the game above all and will try to enjoy watching this great side play, anything else is a bonus.

If Smith hadn't have helped him up he may have been down long enough to force their hand to take him off to do the concussion test. This would have made a significant difference in the last couple of minutes. I couldn't believe neither Clarry or Vines notified the Ump that Cripps was bleeding. This is an absolute no brainer and no issue around sportsmanship as far as I'm concerned. Is done all the time in games. It would have forced him off the ground at a critical stage of the game. It was a no brainer and a bad miss.

In fairness to Smith he's been completely played put of position his whole career down back. It's only this year the coaches decided to wake up and realise his athletic traits is best suited up forward.

There is a middle way. Point it out neither to Cripps nor to the umpire.

Unless they see this as their Hawthorn end of 2022 moment or MFC 2010(?). A chance to improve their list with draft picks, so deliberately maim themselves to unearth players on their list and then finish so low, they'd be in line for top 5 picks before Tassie come in. Otherwise, they're in huge strife I reckon.

Harry Petty = problem solved. He's got JVR in support who was incredible for a 2nd year player and Joel Smith who kicked 3 goals in the SF and should have had 4. Fritsch is an aerial threat and so is McAdam who's coming. Jefferson is developing at VFL level. Priorities are everywhere else.

You cant overturn a goal on that. Nothing definitive whatsoever. No umprire called it. The ARC made its own decision. Its garbage

Agree. Everyone on here seems not to rate Joel Smith and I understand that given his history. But he has come on in leaps and bounds this season and became an integral part of our forward system. That's 3 very good contested forwards that can all take a mark. Add Fritsch and McAdam as medium talls as well as our smalls which might include Watson, then the forward line doesn't look that bad. Melksham might even get another contract. It's our forward entries that I believe is the problem. We don't need a Lynch or a McKay. We have the cattle.

Lynch is a year away at most from being as cooked as TMAC or BB. Drafting is great but our window is now. Jamara or kitchen sink at Oscar Allen - perfect age bracket.

Clickbait drivel from an industry bottom feeder desperate to stay relevant.

Cripps nose was bleeding the whole last quarter and no blood rule. Max was booted off by an overzealous umpire, for a spot of blood on his lip at Geelong, in the last few minutes of a game and with no ruckman, the Cats scored from the stoppage and won the game. 7 Carlton frees to 1 for us in the last quarter of a tight semi final, yeah officials have no influence on games.

Sure - but Petty plus another year into JVR, they could really do some damage. I feel that our priorities are elsewhere than a KPF, e.g. longer term backup for May + Gawn, plus some on-ballers with decent/elite disposal.

Yes and I am not enjoying it. We really have thrown away a great chance at another flag, with a problem we have had for weeks and weeks, poor goal kicking accuracy. Additionally, a failure to go defensive in the last 2-3 minutes and flood the backline, is a blight on our coaching and leadership. We were in a PF with 1 minute to go, what a complete lack of understanding of the situation, we showed.