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Good news imo

On what planet would we trade Petty for McAdam? One is out of contract and 28 years old. One is contracted for TWO MORE YEARS and is a 23 year old key position star. I suggest Tomlinson staying is more to do with Petty playing forward permanently and us needing another experienced big bodied defender. We would get absolute peanuts for Tomlinson which is a crying shame. He has a role to play.

Harrison Petty Coleman, put the house on it* *gamble responsibly

Hopefully he gets the respect he deserves from the FD. I bet he's frustrated with the mixed messages he's been getting, not sure what he could've done differently this year.

Bowey - consistent and reliable Brayshaw - important midfield addition Brown - ruined by injury Chandler - failed with inconsistency Dunstan - couldn’t impress selectors Fritsch - needed more impact Gawn -our outstanding leader Grundy - a major disappointment Harmes - something went wrong Hibberd - gave his all Hunter - a welcome addition Jordon - limited, probably gone Langdon - an inconsistent year Laurie - didn’t take chance Lever - strong and composed May - powerful and consistent McDonald - had nothing left McVee - first year revelation Melksham - turned back clock Neal-Bullen - consistent, not outstanding Oliver - great until injury Petracca - a consistent dynamo Petty - cause for optimism Pickett - disappointingly limited output Rivers - exciting times ahead Salem - a poor season Schache - had limited opportunities Smith - versatile and involved Spargo - probably went backwards Sparrow - tough and uncompromising Tomlinson - had his moments Turner - certainly looks promising van Rooyen - more strength required Viney - great until finals Woewodin - deserved more opportunities

Good news. His presence makes Lever better.

Lucky wife

One of Goody’ biggest mistakes this season was to drop Tommo after the win against the Filth where he was outstanding. To bring in an unfit Petty to play down back at Geelong cost us the 4 points & a crack at top spot. For mine he is a keeper until Daniel Turner is ready.

Darcy Moore is one of the best high marks in the game, he has a slight susceptibility to body contact which is why he’s better playing more zone. But his run and jump is elite. Watch this cut up of O’Sullivans game. Excellent positioning. Gorgeous hands at ground level, the way he holds, shimmies and releases handballs is better than just about any mid in this draft. But starting from the first few contests and throughout the video he’s letting the ball get over the back or getting out marked in contests. Very rarely does he get a clean spoil or leap (Lever) or push bodies out of the way (May) to intercept mark. Teaching him to spoil shouldn’t be too hard, he’s in position and has the athleticism, but teaching anyone to take contested marks is very hard.

Can anyone imagine a Carlton goal being denied in such a big game simply because Lever said he touched it.? Video inconclusive Goal to Carlton stands! No , its always going to be teams like Melbourne who cop it in the throat. Carltons revenge on Melbourne is now complete. After several years of no wins and several thrashings Carlton get two incredibly lucky wins against us in huge games. We all knew losing Petty then Melksham was likely season over but the AFL system that shows blatant bias is pushing me away. God i hope Lions slaughter them next Saturday and GWS win by a point.

Circus competition making the interpretation of rules and processes up on the fly.

No way Salem is going anywhere. Just look at what he has been through this year with illness. He admits he is under his playing weight by over 5 kg and in an interview on SEN the other day said he had a commitment to the Club and his play this year was heavily compromised by his illness.

Deakyn Smith has been informed that he will not receive a contract for the 2024 season.

Which key forward were you thinking of?

No, I don't think we screw around with players' psyche like that. If he's been told he's required then that's what it is.

For the most part I enjoy your posting, especially regarding list management, however I think you've missed the mark here. KPDs don't need to play with "flair or dare" - in fact, I'd prefer they didn't *cough* Sam Frost *cough*. Agree pace is an issue now, but I feel he barely put a foot wrong this season (outside of the Hawthorn game) and was probably mismanaged (dropped after the KB game when he shouldn't have been). He's solid enough and lifts the performace of the entire defensive unit when he plays. Also, your last point is flat out wrong. I've spoken to his family today an can confirm he's more than happy to stay. I also think he'll play most of the season if fit next year - regardless of whether Lever and/or May are fit.

This definitely confirms Petty will be our FF next year. Who knows what'll happen in 2025.

It makes me sad our attention is now on trade and draft and not a prelim so so sad

If Kozzie was flying for marks which he basically never takes then falling over i would agree with you but he makes a contest and stops the oppositions Jake Levers taking intercept marks. He is still buzzing around creating pressure when he lands after his failed attempt. He can't create an effective contest with his height without flying for it. I'm more concerned about bigger players who don't make it to the contest and are less effective when the ball in on the ground.

Things are still very raw and I thought about waiting a bit but there's no time like the present. When you truly love something, you need to love it when things are at their worst as well. Demonland means a lot to me and I wanted to express my gratitude to all of you for providing the best place in town for all talk regarding our beloved Demons. I'd firstly like to give a shoutout to Andy and the moderators for keeping Demonland running smoothly as usual and taking the podcast to yet another level with a great format and tons of great content, quick shoutout to @george_on_the_outer and @binman too for their efforts throughout the year. This became the only Melb and Footy pod I listened to this year and the analysis went to a new level. Looking forward to seeing what's in store next year guys! To @WalkingCivilWar for providing a weekly update on the making of the banner. Something I've never been exposed to before and it was amazing to see how much time and effort goes into these things. Also thanks for giving us amazing insight to how much the Demon Army accomplishes based on the little resources they have to play with. Again, a realm I'd had very little exposure to and I'll be taking out a DA membership next year no doubt. @kev martin Your training reports just like last year were amazing. This was another reason why I tuned out to the main footy media so much this year because I was getting so much info from these reports alone! You do all this work off your own bat and I can assure you it is much, much appreciated on DL. @Lucifers Hero Your workings of the contract details and number crunching is info that is not readily available in a short space of time on the interwebs. You pull this all together into one concise format and it is an amazing resource. Thanks also for the 'what they are saying' threads. There's so much respect for you here and deservedly so. To @joeboy the 3 word reviews are like an exclamation point on a game just played. I still don't know how you front up each week and do it knowing what might be coming back in response but you do and I'm looking forward to seeing many, many more. Thanks also to anyone who is able to share contents of an article behind a paywall. You guys are the lords of the dance! If I've missed anyone I apologise, feel free to fill in some blanks. And finally there's you, the Demonland poster. Thank you. There's those of you I get along very well with and think alike with, those that have slightly different views that really make you think and those that I may rarely agree with but the bottom line is that I've learned that 95% of the people who frequent this site (That have been here longer than a day) seem to have a mutual respect for one another. Disagreements and conflict are admittedly not my forte, I used to be someone who never ever wanted to rock the boat or put noses out of joint but I really appreciate those of you that express your different view but don't make it personal or hold grudges. It's a great skill to be able to disagree with someone but then put that out of your mind when you move on to the next point which might actually be something that the same two people agree on. I'd even go as far as to say I've learned a lot from those of you who are like this so thank you. Anyone who frequents Demonland is usually highly invested and regardless of agreement or disagreement I have respect. It's a cruddy feeling going out in straight sets two years in a row, it will burn, I will not want to watch anymore footy this year but probably will. However this is our club, we live by the sword and die by the sword. I'll never lose the passion and I doubt any of you will too. Enjoy the Grand Final if you watch it and have a great/safe Xmas and New Year period. I'm looking forward to chatting about the hot topics with all of you again in 2024. 2023 the year of the Dee rhymed so we won't have that but I'm sure we'll be in the thick of it. GO DEES!!!

It wasn’t the defending that lost our last two games. It was inability to put the ball through the goals often enough, most finals you do need to kick more than 73 points to win.

Some of our FD decisions this year were mind boggling. Culminating in the decision to play Schache as the tactical sub in a do-or-die final and then choose not to make a sub. Definitely not the reason we lost, but I just can't fathom why the coaching department would think it's a good idea to not have fresh legs come on? In comparison, Ollie Hollands came on and offered some genuine speed and run.

The right call and suggests that Petty will remain forward next year In my opinion Tomlinson needs to start next year as the third tall and keep that position until one of Disco Turner or Jed Adams (or any potential recruits) force him out with consistent VFL form Having said that you would have thought that this was the obvious call this year when Petty was moved forward but the FD never seemed convinced by Tomlinson, despite our defence always looking solid with him in the side

I think Rohan Connolly is an outstanding footy journo. He provides a sense of real balance in his latest piece for ESPN. https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/38395193/afl-finals-rohan-connolly-where-next-melbourne-demons-port-adelaide-power-straight-sets

From the mistake on Tracc's goal against the Blues, which cost us 2nd position and possibly a flag tilt, I believe there have been 7 Arc decisions involving Carlton and guess what, every single one of them went Carlton's way. Luck, coincidence, or interference in a game? PS. Re the ANB goal, which was called a goal by the Goal Umpire and not called touched by any field Umpire, it was a reversal of a goal, touched apparently, which again would have won us the game and which I can't recall seeing similar before. Adopting my MFCSS hat I could say every new ruling always seems to go against us, Moloney weeks for non contact, Trengove 4 weeks for a sling tackle, where victim best on ground next week, Kozzie 2 weeks for a high bump with no injury and victim laughing, Sparrow sling where victim's head didn't contact the ground, etc, etc, etc. I am sure you can all come up with countless more examples.

It happened it front of me and the Carlton players signaled touch to the umpire immediately on the night and seemed relatively confident they touched it. So my celebration was short-lived. Just life is cruel giving us two incredibly close calls against Carlton with huge ramifications - 2nd spot and place in a prelim.

Chandler - great start dwindled Grundy - didn't fit, sadly Lever - solid and reliable May - dee fensive leader McDonald - body failed him McVee - hard work rewards Melksham - sad season's end Neal-Bullen - consistent, great contributor Oliver - sorely missed midseason Petracca - needed up forward Petty - revelation until injured Pickett - needs to focus Rivers - fabulous consistent defender Salem - thyroid or knee? Schache - can;'t teach hardness Smith - improved every game Spargo - needed first final Tomlinson - essential third tall Turner - needs more gametime van Rooyen - solid debut season Viney - never say die Woewodin - looking like dad

The learning for me is that good ball users like spargo should play because we don’t have enough good ball users

Hey DD. I’m not hearing much at the moment except for a few gentle enquires they’re making here and there. That said, I wasn’t aware of the McAdam one. I’ll let you know if and when I can.

Could someone please explain how the review of Alex Neal-Bullen’s “non goal” worked? It was paid as a goal. The ball was taken to the centre and then a review took place in which it was deemed to have been touched after a quick review. I thought it was inconclusive.

The strangest thing for me is that we never tried Grundy in the ruck and Max behind the ball. Just like we never tried Gawn in the ruck and Jackson as a mid. I find it odd that we recruited a second ruck, saw that the forward / ruck thing wasn't working, but never tried the back / ruck alternative. Even just for one or two plays.

Grundy was a mistake but only for one year. Sydney will now take that contract over. We gambled on Gawndy, it didn’t work, okay we move on. Not the end of the world. Spargo wouldn’t be either if he left. He’s not Tom Papley. Uses the ball well but doesn’t get enough of it and doesn’t kick enough goals for a small forward. Not sure why you’re potting the Richmond model. It won three flags.

So it has come this. I have to support Brisbane and GWS. The latter being one club I had despised since that smirking pr*ck Sheedy paraded Tom 'im only going up for a look' scully in a press conference. I had begun to admire some of Collingwood but after having to sit near their band of orcish supporters whipping themselves into a frenzied mob a couple of weeks ago they moved back on top of the hated list. Now joined by Carlton, whose supporters seemed to have one thing on their mind last week and that was to goad Dee's supporters into some reaction. They came down the aisle to wave their arms about, getting into faces and starting fights. Watch out if there's a Carlton v Collingwood gf .. Then the media hopped on the bandwagon. Please footy gods, do the right thing and have GWS play Brisbane in the gf and spare us all the local media hype garbage.

It’s almost like the Adelaide football media invent stories each year to keep their football public interested. Kozzie to Port anyone? 🥱

Correct call, Some curious selection issues this year but still played 9 and allows us to be flexible with Petty/Smith. also gives Turner/Adams time to keep honing their craft

He was concussed, who are these f wits trying to fool. Double standards all-round.

Petracca - absolutely star once again and should win the B&F. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️Great ballwinner and midfield bull who was pushed forward to create or kick goals. Tackling still an issue and his goalkicking confidence (28.36) needs a boost with set shots problem continuing Viney - had a great year and should be runner up in B&F. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️Midfield bull. Tackling a highlight. Contested ballwinner. Disposal still 50/50 and needs to work again on that Gawn - The best ruckman in the league. Huge heart. Injured early and then shared rucking. Once he was no1 he was huge. An outstanding leader ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Oliver - was a star again until injury and that 7 weeks out curtailed his year. Got back for the late year and finals to show his star power ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️. He’s still probably the best Contested ball winner in the comp but his poor delivery and non effective handball let him down Brayshaw - strong year and regained more midfield time. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️Definitely a huge loss in the finals. Hope he can continue but fully understand if he decides that is retirement for his future and his family May - Excellent year. He’s still going strong. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ But Boring kick in to 50 metres out in left is so predictable in kick outs and opposition knows it every time. Need to get better strategy. Rivers - again developed into a running defender and able to both use pace and run plus defend strongly. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️Love his energy. Still a defender imv but can play attacking springboard role Lever - another good year. He’s the backline captain. Played better as 3rd tall and spoiling/controlling areas ⭐️⭐️⭐️ McVee - impressed all year with his poise and skill. Still learning and developing but was a first year revelation ⭐️⭐️⭐️ Hibberd - clearly his body let him down but whenever he played, he gave his all and destroyed many small forwards ⭐️⭐️⭐️ Retired with his head held high 👏👏✈️ Fritsch - he was very good in patches (38 goals) and then inconsistent with goalkicking. Overall needed more impact and desire for the footy. Good but we think he’s got more to give imv ⭐️⭐️⭐️ Petty - had a great year either as KFB or KFF.⭐️⭐️⭐️ Injuries again were disappointing and his season ending injury hurt our premiership chances van Rooyen - still raw but a great first year performance. ⭐️⭐️⭐️ Love his marking and goalkicking. Big future ahead and love to see Dees support him with more experienced forward coaches Pickett - his good is very good but his poor days were disappointing. Love his excitement and energy if directed at the footy . ⭐️⭐️⭐️Still a match winner with his pace and goal scoring (37.30) but his output dropped in too many games and discipline a problem Bowey - skills very good and needs to use through corridor more; lost some 1-1s but overall had a good year. Still only 21 ⭐️⭐️ Langdon - new look but didn’t regularly give us his usual output. Now sits in the boundary line and kicks down the line to a negative contest. Ask him to step 15 metes inboard to firstly use the corridor and give himself better room to run. Still very import team member. ⭐️⭐️ Hunter - brought in and given 100% wing role to compliment Lingers. Had good year overall but often too wide and too slow to move the footy. Needs to improve to keep the role. ⭐️⭐️ Neal-Bullen - another consistent, but not outstanding year ⭐️⭐️ More a defensive half forward who doesn’t hit the scoreboard (19 goals, 25 games) but he’s running and tackling is an asset. He’s a midfielder playing half fwd really Sparrow - was again on the edge of being very good. ⭐️⭐️Consistent performance throughout the year as a fringe midfielder and occasionally half forward. Big preseason ahead and can be better Melksham - out of the team but took his chances to be a key goalkicker⭐️⭐️Cruel injury kept him out of finals. One more year imv J Smith - pushed himself into the team late in the year and showed he is versatile as a back and a forward. Not quite either but definitely very handy player ⭐️⭐️ Spargo - with a lack of goals and ball winning eventually saw him dropped. (11 goals in 14 games) Got back for semi and showed more bounce but overall probably went backwards ⭐️ Chandler - started well and was a reliable goalkicker. After cemented his place, he failed with inconsistency and lack of goals. Back on the margins now and not in best 22 ⭐️ Salem - a disappointing year and seemed not to be 100% fit. Lost his skill and reverted to high helicopter kicks. Overall an average season ⭐️ Laurie - given late chances and perhaps lucky he’s got contract for 2024. Midfielder or small forward? Not sure. Could help us with ball use if he gets chance 🙏🏽 Woewodin - got 4 games and definitely liked his run and decision making. Strangely omitted when I thought extra games were helping his development. Can push for more games in 2024 🙏🏽 D Turner - another year that showed promise but injury and selectors befuddled behavior cost him. Was given games then immediately dropped. Determination and marking power gives him a future imv. Hope MFC gives him games in 2024 🙏🏽 Schache - low cost pickup who showed why didn’t make it at the Dogs. Low intensity. Low physical pressure or presence. Got another year due to lack of our KPF options. Got limited opportunities but was poor overall 💩 Tomlinson - not a friend of the selectors, he got chances and played good games but was dropped or overlooked far too many times. 🤔Strong defender who did his job and had his moments. May look for more favourable opportunities elsewhere and who could blame him 🚀 Grundy - covered Gawn in rounds 2-6 then shared duties. Once it was decided to go with Gawn 100%, Grundy was dropped and selectiors marked his card. Disappointing outcome but foreseen. Trade most likely 🚀 Harmes - we’ve enjoyed his passion but silly decisions and poor tackling and poor kicking and stupid fend off attempts wore down patience and he spent too much time at Casey. Contracted but now unlikely to get back 🚀 Jordon - not given many opportunities but ultimately wasted chances when he got game time. As a UFA, offers might entice him to go. Imv he’s probably gone🚀 McDonald - Looked finished and then got injured and then returned to show he’s got nothing left. Surely must retire ✈️but he’s stubborn and contracted so might keep going Brown - looked good early with 8 goals in first two rounds but unfortunately his knee injury ruined his year. Only played 4 more games and was clearly struggling. Huge loss really given we needed his accuracy and marking. If knee injury is chronic, I think retirement is calling ✈️ Others: Dunstan - starred in VFL again but uses wrong aftershave and couldn’t impress selectors. Injury killed his year twice. Unfortunately he’s likely to be delisted ❌ Verrell - athletic young ruck and when given the chances, showed good ability and marking Like to see him in another 12 months as next year he develops at Casey 🙏🏽 Blake Howes - another injury hit year which was really disappointing Was hoping we might see him debut but will need to get himself fit and firing over the summer 🙏🏽 Jed Adams slow development in Casey. Has the height and smarts to give hope of future KPB 🙏🏽 Sestan - smart goalkicking youngster Will benefit from a full preseason and has some talent Not quite tall enough or quick enough perhaps so he’s still a punt 🙏🏽 Jefferson - will be told to get into the gym and take the protein shakes. Good signs especially with his marking ability but needs more determination. 🙏🏽 ANW - a good year at Casey and perhaps unlikely not to debut. Could be in contention again for games in 2024. Maybe a debut in round 1 with Kozzzy missing. Like his tackling and goalkicking😀. 🙏🏽 KFW - tall skinny raw ruck; limited opportunities at Casey and looked lost in some games; another year to see if he’s got anything to offer longer term 🙏🏽 Deakyn Smith - good in patches and like his delivery but undecided on whether he’s to stay on 🤯🤔🤯 Kye Turner - Injury hit year; undecided on whether he’s to stay on 🤯🤔🤯

Ask nicely

I think if we are being honest, we were never going to win it last year. But that was definitely our premiership to lose this year. But unfortunately we threw (kicked) it away. I never mind being beaten by better sides on the day, but we have been the better side in both finals. That is what hurts.

Maynard pushes his open hands into Gus to brace himself instead of tucking his shoulder into him, Gus plays out the game and we probably win through to a home prelim. Who knows what could’ve happened from there.

Salem's not going anywhere FFS

You might find this interesting because at this stage I don’t believe the media even know about it. As strange as it seems, Taylor Adams from the Pies has contacted the Swans himself to discuss their interest in him moving there. Wants to play more midfield and clearly feels he’s not getting the love from the Pies. Totally separate to this, my sources tell me that Callum Mills has badly damaged his shoulder/collarbone in a mad Monday wrestling match and will miss a major part of preseason. Apparently Longmire was as angry as he’s ever been after hearing about it.

Bowey is worth trialling as a midfielder for some class and dash. Has traits similar to Zak Butters.

There are numerous examples of poor umpiring. The one that got me at the game was again Umpire 22 - Nathan Williamson late in the 3rd quarter. Apologies for the quality - but I have circled him, the ball and Pittonet engaging and taking Gawn out of the marking contest. (The telecast vision was poor but the umpires vision of it was not!!) I was filthy as I was row G just left of umpire 22. I could see both the free and the umpire and couldn’t believe the none decision. Even the scumbag Carlton fans were agreeing in the next bay that they got away with one. I know Gawn has put some mayo on by flopping a bit in the past but then he is also taken high, held, arm chopped, bumped, shepherded and impeded without receiving a free for what is blatantly a free in every game. He must have his photo displayed next to Ginnivan and Greene at umpires HQ. How can we address this as it’s a small contributing factor to both finals losses? Will the club address this? How do we get this in the media like the filth with Ginnivan? Also, I read elsewhere that semi final weekend they have previously rested the best umpires so they’re fresh for prelim and GF. Isn’t that what one of the reasons of bringing in 4 field umpires was trying to address? Why go substandard when the best is available? Surely the week off before finals is enough (yeah they run a lot but they don’t take big hits) to not need another break so soon.

Here's a positive: Selwyn Griffith. After the struggle to fill Burgo's shoes in 2022 (From what we could see anyway) I thought he really stepped up to the plate this year. We were back to covering the MCG well and for most of the season we finished games very, very strongly as opposed to last season. Whatever he's doing, he's got the balance right and I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do in 24 with some new faces and hopefully a healthy list. Go Selwyn!

Agree with all of this. I would love to think that Petty will be back fit and firing, but these foot injuries seem to take a long time to get over. It may not be quite so bad with a player like him who is not totally dependent on mobility though. I am sure that you are right about Grundy. I think Jackson really let us down last year and i am quite angry about it - all that stuff about "i haven't decided" when we now know he absolutely had, and to my mind he really didn't put in, especially against Brisbane. Reading between the lines, i think Goodwin must think the same and that is why he didn't select Grundy in either of our finals, even as a sub. I don't blame Grundy like i do Jackson, though; we were pushing Grundy out really. And i assume that is why Goodwin didn't select Hibberd, despite his excellent work on Elliott.

Exactly and why we need to find a KPF and should've attempted to at the end of 22. Max doesn't kick many goals. 1 goal every second match (on average). Jackson had pretty much switched off in the second half of 22. His mind was in Perth, body in Melb. I suspect Goodwin learned from this and that's why he refused to play Grundy latterly. In hindsight, Jackson's disappearing act in the second half of 2022 was very costly for the whole team and club. We were basically playing a man down in most of the matches he played. In 2021 Jackson averaged 0.7 goals per match 2022 0.5 2023 1.0

joeboy - another great year

I reckon if you want a complete re-design, you'll be disappointed. Our game plan has been the most successful in the comp over the last 4 years. We haven't had a consistent rival in that time (Brisbane the closest with a significant home ground advantage). This year we lost only one game by more than 10 points. And all stat indicators (leading to xScore) pointed to us winning the majority of those games (including 3/4 finals that we lost. The other final against Sydney was a <3 point loss on xScore). In 2022 we had significant injury and fitness issue that saw us fall into a hole at the end of the season, cooked. Some injuries can't be helped but we also had a new fitness lead. We made major changes to our conditioning and injury management programs in 2023 for significant improvement. In 2023 we have again battled some key inuries (everyone has them but ours were often particularly key players like Gawn and Oliver). The injuries were almost entirely concentrated on tall and medium forwards. That part of our structure never settled, yet we still probably should've won both finals. We'll make further, incremental changes to the game plan, recruit some players and try to solve the forward issue with the players available to us. But wholesale changes aren't on the cards.

Very well said. They have picked a game style that suits their strengths. We've picked one that suits ours. It's not as fun to watch, but we're statistically the best team over the last 3 years. Giants aren't. Gamestyle is a big part of that. Re. Bedford, Hunt and others - something to consider is that when a player leaves the dees, they invariably do quite well. Imo this says more about our development than the team they join. Bedford was very very raw when he learnt his craft at Casey, and we coached and guided him for 3 years to the point where he was a weapon down there. He can be proud of himself, but he also owes us a debt of gratitude. AMW is tracking in a similiar way in that he is now a very important player down there. It won't be long before we see him in the team. Ditto Hunt. There are probably 20 players more talented than him on the WCE list. He had a great year because he brought Melbourne standards and Melbourne development with him. I know we're all in despair ATM and it sucks. But you need a lot of luck to get there - particularly with injuries. We could not find continuity in our forward half all year and in reality it was always NQR. We had method troubles in mid-21 but not the personnel issues we had this year.