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Quote: "Had doubts, didn't communicate them as they re-signed him and then asked him to present a case" Quote: "Fancy having a freshly-minted two-year contract then having to desperately pitch for your job." Quote: "...club leadership that admitted you weren’t given the best chance to succeed and subsequently made you plead for your job…" So they decide to sack him having effectively recruited his replacement. They let the man believe he had a chance when he didn't and they knew it. They still made him beg for his job. Then hit him for six. Why would they put a good man who gave his all through that sort of torment. The least they could have done was give him a heads up after the season ended or when Bassat came back from the cruise on Lindsay Fox's boat when it seems they hatched their plan. No, they chose to blindside him. And put him through a public humiliation. Disgraceful! It is good to see those media tweets pointing the finger where it belongs: Lethlean and Bassat!! I mentioned at the start of this thread that Lethlean had a lot to answer for. Well Bassat also does. The Saints deserve better leadership than they have provided. Both should go. I so feel for Ratten. He has been through so much in his coaching and personal life. He deserved much, much better. Not the least, some humanity and care.

Nearly shed a tear when I read this, it's like one of your sons leaving home.

I also hope we thrash Freo but I have no ill will toward Jackson. I'm indifferent. And I wouldn't like to see him becoming a whipping boy for Freo fans if he doesn't live up to his contract and the hype. He wasn't the only player that didn't give his all this season. Goodwin said as much after the first semi. I see him as an immature, not too bright 21 year old. Having said that I am surprised his manager or someone else didn't ghost write a decent 'thank you' message for him for mfc and its fans. Sam Weideman set a fine example in that regard.

"The Gospel of Luke", deary me. If The West Australian had only consulted the wordsmiths of Demonland (and tapped into the rollercoaster of emotions screaming out on every page of this voluminous thread) , I'm sure they could have come up with a more memorable headline. How about "The Gospel of Puke"? Ok, that was childish. What about "Dees bent over, Dogga-style"? Too risqué? (Sorry to all the missionaries out there.) Or any one of the following: Way to go, Luke, as Dees’ hearts bleat poo Every Dogga has his (pay)day Lukewarm Dee docks, grins then sinks in Freo Harbour with ship full of gold The Jackson 7: monster deal has Luke singing “I’ll be there” The Bell tolls for Dee: behind the secret mid-season meeting (with diminutive, cloaked man in bar) that brought Luke home Mum’s the word: young star unable to articulate reasons of move Ok, perhaps not. Maybe "The Gospel of Luke" ain't so bad after all. I'll see myself out.

Thanks LH I have been scanning the pages looking for something that LJ wrote acknowledging his time at MFC his teammates, coaches, fitness staff, boot studders, haven’t been able to find anything not even an acknowledgement of the kind words spoken by Kate Roffe. Jeezuz Luke where’s the manners young man I am Sure that the Brayshaws and personal sponsors would be disappointed, hell I am disappointed and I don’t even know you. That is my final word on LJ.

Well spoken young man, shows that you have a lot of class and your last two years were very important to you and your teammates. Good luck with the rest of your footy career and life ahead.!!

I’m sure Luke will acknowledge the MFC once he unlatches from his Mother’s teat.

Phillipou would be an amazing pick. He’s got the combination of a midfielder with an agile athletic taller forward type. His marking and ground cover is A grade. Package that with the left foot style and he’d be a great addition. The knockers might say he’s from Adelaide and there’s to go home factor, but it wouldn’t think that would deter JT from picking him if available.

My understanding is that the club have had several interviews with Murray Bushranger product in Brayden George. They will be up the border over the next few weeks to interview a few Bushie lads as well some potential bush league smokies. Ollie Holland's another Murray product who boards at Geelong Grammer was also interviewed by the Dees during draft camp and were thoroughly impressed with his maturity and leadership which has been a trait of his since his was a young fella. I believe they'll conduct a few more interviews with Ollie over the next few weeks.

Unfortunately when a player is uncontracted then the club does not have the upper hand and has to accept less than they want for players and move on with other trades. Not many list managers have skills to do deals fast so they can get other deals done where the outcome is better. We did well with Brodie Grundy, Lachie Hunter and Josh Schache who are not out of their best window. In the end Pick 13 and 37 is good result for the club. Every one has lauded Geelong for getting Pick 7 but I don't believe they did so great with the personnel they got Tanner Bruhn 2 years in the system with most stats below-average, Ollie Henry 2 years in the system with most stats below-average and Jack Bowes 6 years in the system who played 5 games last year with most stats average and below-average for a middle of the table team and was on $800,000 per year, the premiers lost only Joel Selwood but are 1 year older the replacements they need in forward lines and rucks are older the midfield will depend on Dangerfield who has had injury riddled season lately where are the Cameron/Stengle/De Konig recruits of the previous years? Pick 7 may be a boom or a bust player since players rarely come to a club and perform straight away. Richmond on the other hand gained Jacob Hopper 7 years in the system with a injury riddled 2022 and Tim Taranto 6 years in the system with stats that are elite and above-averge, maybe they will have an injury free year for Martin and Pestia but they have no picks to speak of in the draft. Brisbane did well but some of the new recruits like Gunston who has a history of back troubles and Dunkley who threw a tantrum when he did not get enough midfield time the loss of McStay will only be known during the 2023 season, only time will tell. Collingwood have gained Daniel McStay, Tom Mitchell, Bobbie Hill and Billy Frampton, other than Mitchell none of the others have set the world on fire but I think the loss of Grundy is probably the worst decision they could have made, since Cameron and Cox are reasonable where as Grundy at his best is in AA class. Femantle may have sold the shop to get Jackson but got O'Meara for weets packets from Hawthorn, they also lost a forward and backup ruckman in Lobb, Acres, Tucker, Meek and Logue and have no picks in the draft until 30, Acres was given to Carlton for a future 3 round pick why? Sydney gained Francis from Essendon, did they improve?. I have watched football for over 70 years and I look forward to 2023 when the Demons get to raise the cup in the GF beating Richmond or Geelong.

No ill will towards Luke but i hope Freo tank next year cos we have their first pick. A bottom 4 finish for them would be great

Have heard the exact same. Alcohol can absolutely destroy someone's life so I really hope we can surround him with good people, good therapists and he is willing to get help - if he can change and thrive he will be a huge asset. Sometimes a change of environment and then an opportunity to start fresh can give someone the ability to change who they are. I just hope he's willing to put in the effort off field to impact his ability to contribute to the club.

Grundy's growing on me! I like his acknowledgement that it has been a whirlwind but that he is excited and grateful for the opportunity. His comments regarding the care shown by MFC are interesting (but seem sincere) given the lack of comment about the coaches at the Pies in his insta post. Regardless, looking forward to seeing him on the field with Max!

What about our work with the Santa Teresa project that's been now successfully ongoing for 5 years through the work of our Aboriginal Liaison Officer Matthew Whelan who's done a power of work with not only our indigenous players but reconnecting past culture to our present day players. https://www.melbournefc.com.au/support-the-club/santa-teresa-oval-project Or what about our Reconciliation Plan where our reconciliation is to unite Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples with non-Indigenous people through the great game of AFL, to truly embrace history, culture and community. https://www.melbournefc.com.au/reconciliation-action-plan Or what about our football club becoming the first historical club in AFL history in rebranding our name to the Narrm Football Club throughout the year. https://www.melbournefc.com.au/indigenous#about Taking a chance on Stack? No different how's we've taken a chance on the likes of Harley Bennell a d Liam Jurrah when no one else wanted to take the risk. I think our football club celebrates our indigenous heritage far better then any club in the league and this is pretty evident. But that's just me personally.

Love Shelley Heath. Never shirks

Sam Weideman another young man with plenty of class who acknowledged our club in glowing terms, helps explain why he was loved so much by his teammates, he sounds as disappointed that he didn’t quite make it as we are. Good luck Sam.!!

It’s a pleasure to watch this team. There’s talent to burn on every line, and a real connection in the game-play. Between the men’s the women’s and Casey, it really is a magical time to be a melbourne supporter.

What you write about the use of rite is quite right.

* rites

I hope you're write! (😉)

His exit left a bad taste ie his total drop in form after agreeing mid season to leave and then his stark lack of recognition and gratitude for the dees. So… I no longer hope he does deliver. Personally I hope we thrash them in a final soon preferably a GF and he recognises the strength of what he left.

Kinder than me I don't

Well, that’s a little simplistic. Lyon’s coached 170 more games than Goodwin, and for 10 years longer. And… if you want to talk simplification - the bounce to win the game never happened. Regardless my point was I can’t stand his game style. I think our style of football is far more engaging to watch than anything Freo put out in his time there. I find his belligerent, joyless coach thing tiring too.

'Footywire' which is usually fairly accurate is showing a one year contract for Schache. It surprises me as when a player changes club it is usually for a minimum of 2 years. If it is one year it really gives Schache a strong message to decide how much he wants a football career. I'll update the Contracts Thread for Schache. If anyone sees any other info on his contract please let me know.

I have always rated Ratten highly as a coach, and remember well his immediate influence on our midfield some years ago. First Carlton shafted him and now the Saints. I love my footy, but stuff me if this doesn't highlight its very very ugly underbelly. Saints board ought to be taken to court over this - it is unjust and disgraceful on some many levels. I thought I would gloat when other clubs became as bad as we were, but it just makes me sad to see North and the Saints like this. However, with regard to the Bombers, I can't help myself. I will continue to gloat because they are the Bombers and they remain fully of hubris, nepotism and irrelevance.

Coached against Darcy this season and really liked what I saw. Knows how to find the footy, takes the game on, quick/smart decision maker in congestion. Work rate is exceptional and has the tank to run all day. He’s taller than Caleb Daniel but reminds me so much of him. I watched Daniel play against WA in his draft year and he was that far ahead of the other players in terms of skill, awareness, decision making and impacting the game it was crazy. At the time all the talk was about him being too small but I hoped he would be taken, Darcy is in the same mould. If he’s best available at 37 I have no issue if we take him

Come off it Red ! You wouldn't have that many mates.

Should’ve been utilised in the finals if you believe that we had up to 11 injuries. His 38 possession/2 goal VFL final against Sydney should've been rewarded down the track.

Got the following insight from a mate who is a lifelong Bulldogs supporter. “Schache under the right coach could be better than both McDonald and Brown as a tall marking forward option. Matthew Lloyd reckons he has the best set shot kicking action of anyone he coached at the AIS. Schache was kicking bags of goals in VFL ( 6 & 8 goal games) at the end of 2022 season. But Bevo only played him sporadically in 2022 and mostly as an intercept marking back (he was quite good) and backup ruck (also quite good) but rarely gave him a chance as a key forward. Like most tall players, Schache is a late developer but a valuable pick up for the Dees.”

Not my kids DC

Will always be grateful to Jacko for helping secure a Premiership and his 3rd qtr in the GF was scintillating. But... he is dead to me now. I'll show as much loyalty to him as he has to us.

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. No point playing in the 2's if a foot is dodgy. Better to play firsts if able and rest if unable. 14? games plus finals may be ok. I doubt his doctors have indicated as reported this far out and would have made that suggestion in any event.

Been rifling through this thread, trying to take stock. I see we've got up to page 303 (we'd be shooting through the cartridges if this were printed out for a magazine!) So, time to look down the barrel (we seem to be in a spiral here anyway) of giving it the bullet? I've already seen myself out. And it's sunny at last, btw...

Never right off T-mac, he is as strong willed as they come.

Wondering how much his plan to leave had on the rest of the team in the later part of the season.Would be hard to play along side a teammate who had checked out

Has 8 years of life learning ahead of Jacko. And footy training also!

I’m a fan already. An upgrade on LJ

Missed him badly. I’m not hopeful his foot will heal but really hope it does

6 out Hunt, Weid, Toby, LJ, Rosman and Baker, 4 in, Grundy, Hunter, Schache and Chandler uplifted, 2spots.

did you know OD that in the north of Vietnam (Hanoi) Ban Mhi is served warm by putting the roll in a steamer whereas down south it's cold like we see in Melbourne Presently in Mexico. Hard to really crack the street food scene here without Spanish but I'm trying. I've been to some out of the way countries and never had a problem by using observation and hand signs. Everything here involves multiple choice to make up a combo which complicates life. I'll keep at it!!

One unlucky bounce to Stevie Miln is all that stands between Lyons and Goodwins Premiership record.

By the by, there has been talk that the bounces (throw in/up) are going to be taken alot quicker, regardless of whether the recognised ruckman is ready or not, with criticism of how long they wait for a ruckman like Max to get to the contest. If they (AFL umpires) enforce this, and we have dominant rucks ready to go, could be a major advantage to us, finally make up for when they were basterds cruelling Jeff White's leap with the 4m circle. Anything that protects the position of ruck is good, it's a feature of the best game on earth.

So the mail is that LJ is on a million a year on a 7 year contract If the Pies are paying $300k per year of Grundie's then we're up for $700k per year Would we have paid $1Million per year to LJ for 7 years? Probably not but that's what we might have had to come up with to keep him But even so, we get a way more advanced player for only $700k per year in comparison So pay the extra and keep LJ or pay a lot less and get a much better player (right now)

What could go wrong with May, Hunter and Stack on our list?

It's depressing to consider that, had Bartlett gotten his way, we would have made the same mistake in '21. Successful clubs with strong administration maintain their commitment to their objective and direction in the face of any challenges. Any strategy must include the coach, which is why Geelong stuck with Mark Thompson over some difficult years. The same is true for Hardwick and Clarko. Goody was also in the same boat.

That club... Let's not kid around, in 2012 they were right in a hole dug by Ross Lyon, and there was no real reason to expect they would do any better than Scott Watters got out of them. Then they somehow clawed some non-rubbish season under Richardson which had people saying the Saints were climbing back faster than even the Demons under Roos, but the reality of their list hit back hard and they bottomed out again. Enter Brett Ratten, who has taken them to double-figure wins in every full season he has coached, even winning a final in 2020 and only being knocked out of finals by the eventual premier. All despite what is really an absolute snot-blast of a list, complete with a number of their highest-paid players barely taking the field. There's a real prospect that Ratten, Richardson and even Watters actually were all quite capable coaches but the entire St Kilda environment meant there was no chance of delivering a rebuild. Final thought; like many of us, I have a little glimmering memory of maaaany years ago when Ratten was briefly our midfield coach and really started to turn it into an effective unit before being poached. Brief notion crossed my mind that with a couple of our coaches leaving he might be a good addition, but then considered that he might just be a little to shell-shocked to jump straight back into a new club and role within weeks. Which invites the question; have St Kilda actually breached certain terms created by the AFL coach's association with regard to timely and appropriate terminations? In other words, is it possible that Ratten could have a legal case against St Kilda for impairing his ability to seek other work, such that St Kilda ought to be required to pay out more than the mandatory 6 months of salary? I'm only asking because that becoming an ugly court case would be the most St Kilda thing ever.

I tried this exercise with the Pick 13 thread to help in understanding this discussion in context. This is a look at the last five drafts and the choices made at around this selection. 2017 36. Charlie Constable (Geelong) 37. Harry Petty (Melbourne) 38. Jack Petruccelle (West Coast) 39. Nathan Murphy (Collingwood) 2018 36. Tom Berry (Brisbane Lions) 37. Laitham Vandermeer (Western Bulldogs) 38. Irving Mosquito (Essendon) 39. Jarrod Cameron (West Coast) 2019 36. Elijah Taylor (Sydney) 37. Keidean Coleman (Brisbane Lions) 38. Nick Bryan (Essendon) 39. Chad Warner (Sydney) 2020 36. Charlie Lazzaro (North Melbourne) 37. Corey Durdin (Carlton) 38. James Rowe (Adelaide) 39. Josh Eyre (Essendon) 2021 36. Jake Soligo (Adelaide) 37. Rhett Bazzo (West Coast) 38. Miller Bergman (North Melbourne) 39. Blake Howes (Melbourne) Another Harry Petty or Chad Warner would be a handy addition to the list.

Got the following insight from a mate who is a lifelong Bulldogs supporter. “Hunter is a gun winger (left footer) and premiership player (he has heaps of finals experience and 2 grannies under his belt). Bevo stuffed him around putting him on a half forward flank with only partial success so Hunter fell out of favour with Bevo. A couple of minor off field indiscretions and Hunter was banished to the VFL until we had so many injuries Bevo was forced to bring him back. If played on the wing he will give you heaps of gut running, marks, tackling and elite delivery to leading forwards… and Bulldogs are paying part of Hunter’s salary!!!”