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Your bias is blinding you there, I’d take Naughton as a straight swap for Jackson in a heart beat

Well done to this thread. Naughts to Dees just got mentioned on SEN. Albeit, it was a listener text saying they heard we are into him (one of you guys?) Keep pushing until Tom Browne runs with it.

I think we are buying Phar Lap. He's stuffed and his heart is in another place.

I do find it really interesting the idea of overvaluing what you can see and undervaluing what you can't see. As soon as posters saw "pick 7 for a salary cap dump and Bowes", they nearly fell over themselves to sign up. The questions of 'how much salary, how much do we have available, how does this fit into our salary strategy/structure' never really pops up because nobody know any of those numbers. It's effectively 'get pick 7 and Bowes for nothing because salary just goes into a magic box and those boffins will sort it out'. Every bit of salary we take on is salary that we can't use to bring in a player that we may really need. And that is either this year or in future years, as we can bring salaries forward to create space in future years. In our situation, is spending nearly 7% of our salary cap for 2 years in the middle of our premiership window really worth pick 7 (minus change) and Jack Bowes?

Didn’t see that particular thing, but it appears (with provided hindsight) a lot of the players were ‘playing injured’ this season, to the extent that it limited their output, and progressively. The maxim of questions regarding playing ‘through injury’ is ultimately pretty simple- can I perform, to what level, and how will I be affected during the game? The deal-breaker question, at least before finals, is - will this get progressively worse if I keep playing? If that falls closer to the ‘no’ side, and the former is considered acceptable diminishment (a very squishy, subjective judgement), then A - graders in particular will keep playing - Max with his NQR ankle, Lever with ? plantar fasciitis, Salem with knee, Tracc being crook mid-season, and so on. As has been prosecuted on here, the club might have misjudged the need to ‘rest and rotate’ during the season, at least before we got to our must win last few rounds. This ‘misjudgement’ seems worse because of the all-conquering Casey season. Doubtless they’ll look to a new approach next season. For Geelong, it was so much easier, because what turned out to be an easy fixture fell into their home-ground gifted lap.

The perceived injustices meted out to Jordan de Goey is a strange hill to die on.

Imagine being paid millions to be an athlete and the one clause is 'don't be a [censored]' and you're not willing to commit to that 😆

I could be wrong, but I thought on trade radio today they said that the Pies will pay 300k, maybe even 400k of Grundy’s contract, and that we should only have to give a second. If both of those things were right, it would be a good trade imo

Jackson worth higher then Naughton? Sheesh.. I would say Naughton is every bit worth more then Jackson who realistically hasn't achieved the same on field output what Naughton has. Naughton Kicked 47.40 as a 21 year old playing as their main full forward in a grand final year. This year alone as a 22 year old Naughton kicked 51 goals whereas Jackson was poor. His natural trajectory as a key forward is certainly sky rocketing towards being a 60-70 goal a year over the next few years. That alone is worth more then Jackson The big talented key forwards is what teams will pay more their worth over a ruckman. Guys like Naughton, Ben King, Max King and Harry McKay are gold nuggets that teams would happily cough up for a couple of first rounders as a starting point.

Anyone that wouldn’t take Naughton for Jackson is dead set mental

Says who? Why are the players obligated to do anything? There is no court case or legal action - yet. Just an AFL investigation. The Hawks, and Pagan and Clarkson will respond to the AFL investigation, people can hear what they have to say and decide for themselves if they believe them. If Pagan and Clarkson want to pursue legal action to clear their name they can sue the ABC for defamation. And if the players sue the hawks, then they'll get their chance their to put their side of the story and the player's side of things will be 'fully tested'.

Naughton is worth much more than Jackson

It's the problem with the AFL's short term management of the various issues that have popped up. It's all very well and good to make an issue go away by managing the issue in the short term (Goodes, Adelaide camp, Lumumba, etc) or by providing platitudes that don't require follow though (indigenous round, Dreamtime, etc), but when you need something from those whose issues you have been managing away, that lack of trust means that there's no genuine relationship. The families have every right, now, to say to the AFL that "We've told our stories but we don't trust you to act in our best interests, so #$%^ off". This is not their issue anymore, it's the AFL's. It's up to the AFL to repair the relationship with the indigenous community through genuine actions in the best interests of the indigenous community, which would only make an impact (slowly) over the longer term. There will, however, still be many whose bridges the AFL cannot unburn.

Gold Coast are after a future 1st round - preferably not from a club likely to finish too high on the ladder, for Bowes and pick 7 this year. Failing to mention that they want that future 1st is lazy journalism and gets a lot of people in unnecessarily here interested! Gold Coast are not giving up Bowes and pick 7 for nothing in return. Maybe we could swing a future 1st from Freo their way, but we'd then have to sort out Bowes contract, and I doubt we'd be able to do that and get Grundy or other targets.

It’s grown legs because of wishful thinking. we’ve lost Jackson and will most likely have to pay overs and trade a first rounder for Grundy and are desperate for a forward. Getting Naughton in many minds softens those blows. never mind that there is no noise whatsoever about Naughton anywhere in the media. his face would be plastered on every trade wrap and whispers story like Jackson & Grundy. there is nadda about him. Mods should close this thread. It ain’t happening.

Maybe but if we finish up losing Jackson and replacing him with Naughton and Grundy I’d say that’s a pretty good outcome

My mail is McStay goes and DeGoey stays.

No there isn't.

Bummer, I really wanted to sign him

For any panel to be both credible and independent it should eschew the appointment of any person who might be seen as having, to use the legal term, an "apprehension of bias" by the public and the football community. This principle would exclude any club officials, discrimination officers, aboriginal members and coaches representatives and also any attempt to introduce a gender balance. A truly independent and credible panel should be comprised of independent outsiders who have an open mind, no preconceived notions and the ability to frame their investigations and questions to all participants with a view to establishing the facts. Once the facts are established, all those who might otherwise have seemed worthy of a place on the panel, ie. those who might be seen as biased, should be available to provide background and interpretation for the benefit of the panel. If, as reported, the complainants no longer want to proceed with a further investigation, the investigation by the panel must still go ahead if only to protect the coaches' interests. Gil and the AFL board have to make it work.

Adelaide conducted a review of the infamous preseason camp. The conclusion was nothing to see here. No wonder these families have reservations

The football media led by The Age is reporting two years to 2024. BUT The following show his contract is to 2023: AFL Press Release at the time he transferred from GWS. Footywire which is usually accurate. The Contracts thread prepared by yours truly is almost never wrong 😉 However, if anyone can find something more reliable than the football media great but until then its best to stick with one year to the end of 2023. I reckon one media person has said to 2024 and they have all jumped on the bandwagon!

Yes it depends on who you listen to on trade radio. Cal Twomey just said a pick in the mid twenties with a few other pick swaps to make it about the same pick value as a late first rounder. He also said he expects it to get done early. I respect Cal more than any of the rest of them on trade radio and think this is how it’s going to happen. Cal clearly has some up to date info as I heard him saying a few weeks ago that it was going to take a first rounder from us.

I can only assume that for this to happen. You're planning on spiking Peter Bell's drink before he walks into the negotiation room then making the decision on his behalf. They don't want to give up Lobb, but you've basically asked them to pay massive overs for Jackson and give Lobb away for free. Even if the two 3rd/4th rounders that have vanished into thin air and up at Fremantle, that's still a horrible deal for them. For what it's worth I think most of us assume this is between a 0 and 0.0001% chance of happening....buuuuut in the interest of fun my mega trade hypothetical would be something like Melbourne sends Jackson to Freo along with Tomlinson and pick 32 to the Dogs Freo send pick 13 and Lobb to the Dogs And the Dogs send Naughton to Melbourne --------- Dogs IN Lobb, Tomlinson, 13, 32 OUT Naughton The Dogs get 2 ready made but old players to help at both ends of the ground and a high end draft talent (with their own pick 11 could on trade that and 13 into the top 10) but lose their best forward. They still probably consider this a net loss... Despite the ins Freo IN Jackson OUT: Lobb, 13 Freo get Jackson without giving up 2 firsts or finding a top 10 pick and give away a guy that want to keep but who also doesn't want to be there. They'd likely consider this a break even but the rest of the footy world would think it's a win. Melb IN Naughton OUT Jackson, Tomlinson and 32. Melbourne get their man but pay thought the nose for him. But frankly to pull a contracted superstar from another team expecting to contend would be win in itself. Anyways that was a fun waste of time

I will admit I am not up with the ‘youth’ but is that a Black & Decker measuring tape in his left hand? DIY fan, self starter, good signs, let’s get him.

Jason Johannison would go first. Norm Smith, Premiership player

Port Adelaide looms as the key to helping Fremantle unlock the first-round pick swap which can secure the trade for Luke Jackson. Fremantle currently has pick 14 and is talking to clubs higher in the draft order in order to nab a pick inside the top 10 to pass on to the Demons for Jackson. Melbourne wants two first-round picks for Jackson, including at least one selection inside in the top 10, from Fremantle. The Power is open to shuffling back several spots in the first round of the draft, which could see the club swap its pick 8 for Fremantle’s pick 14. Port Adelaide would receive at least one second-round pick from Fremantle as extra incentive to move six spots backwards in the first round. The deal would mean the Dockers are armed with a prized top-10 selection to give to Melbourne to seal the deal for Jackson. But Port Adelaide is holding the upper hand in the negotiations as the club is happy to hold on to pick 8, and the Power won’t do the deal unless it benefits them.

Ahhh….. the highly repeated annual statement at the start of every trade period 😏

They might just say bad luck...you sort it out AFL, you weren't there when needed you. Never have been for all your tokenism. Backed Eddie M & others before him. Who helped Goodes when he was left out on a limb? Who helped Eddie B? I can totally understand their reticence.

Coaches Votes V Carlton 9. Tayla Harris (MELB) 9. Eliza West (MELB) 6. Vaomua Laloifi (CARL) 4. Olivia Purcell (MELB) 2. Sarah Lampard (MELB) The opposing coaches were in almost complete agreement as to the best players were aside from who was BOG. Eliza West’s improvement has been dramatic. She only debuted this year (season 6) and it is fair to say all her skills, aside from her ball winning capabilities, were sketchy. She is now a reliable (short) kick, good with her hands and a tenacious tackler. She seems to have a natural feel for the game and is a vital cog in our midfield set up.

Who could blame them. I don't trust the AFL either, history shows they have never got it right...despite all the chances they've had. Why would that change now.

I mean, I'm an anonymous nobody behind a keyboard on a football supporters website but... If we don't chase this hard, I'll be baffled. We have many NQR's we can move on to comfortably fit Bowes in. Was a top 10 pick so he clearly has attributes to work with. He's 24 as well. I'd be more than comfortable to move a player like Hunt on given he's 27 and has never become a consistent 22 player. And whilst he played the majority of this year, he is definitely replaceable. Then there's any of Tomlinson, Bedford, Weideman, Melksham, ANB who I'd be comfortable moving on. Pivk 7 would be an unbelievable gift to have going into this draft or on-trading for next year's bumper crop. It's just a no-brainer. Heading into the draft with two first rounders from the Jackson trade as well as pick 7 is ludicrous for a side that won a flag the season prior and finished the current one on second spot. [censored] do it!

I think it depends on the commentator. @KLVreported that Sanderson said a good 1st round pick and maybe more. They are just like the usual ex football jocks; just guessing and making up stuff to fill in air time.

Shame Daniel Cross isn't around the club anymore. Could've gone with Naughts 'n' Crosses

I caught that segment too from the podcast. Edmund said that 32 was not high enough for Grundy, intimating between 13 and 32 was the value. The Goose, Sanderson then thought 32 was a "sweetener" to get it done ie 13 & 32 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ Also "13 & Weid" Scratch that show off my listens

Brent Sanderson opined today that - ➡️ Luke Jackson to Fremantle for Pick 13 ➡️ Collingwood recieves Pick 13 for Brodie Grundy ➡️ Collingwood pay $300,000 of Grundy's remaining salary This values a 20/1 year old ready made ruckman originally drafted at pick #3 with a Rising Star and a Premiership behind him at a downgrade of 10 picks from top 3 to pick 13. Tell them they’re dreaming.

Surprised he didn't suggest we'd chuck in Trac as a sweetener

Beveridge and Toomey saying Ess not interested and Toby will either go to GWS or stay at the Dees.

Its hard not to get a bit agitated by all the noise about certain players and not much mention of us apart from Grundy. I have no reason to believe it as our recent history has been tight lipped and no leaks, but i sincerely hope we are looking at lots of players that might make us 10% better, i e Jack Gunston. He just seems like a logical fit, especially since Brown and McDonald are no certainties to be there in Round 1, and it could be JVR.. imagine the expertise and guidance he would have on the young fella. I know our lot is in with our mid stars and they take up a fair chunk of money, but we cannot stand still. I think Grundy will be great, im ok with him, i think he will provide flexibility for us. But we still need to identify key areas, like foot skills, what i would give for a beautiful left footer that is an elite user of the ball, hopefully Salem can get fit and learn how to kick more than 20ms. Anyway, time will tell, i just hope we learn from 2018 when we thought it was just going to happen the next year, we need improvements across teh whole club, style, fitness but for me its attitude and skill.

Have a good rest Simon Recharge and Reset….

Great post. I would also add that I expect our salary cap must already be tight. And secondly, Geelong and Melbourne have shown that you don’t need high picks to find talent in the draft. Pick 7 might get us the player ranked 5 on our draft board, while pick 32 might net us the player ranked 15. Lastly, the value of picks is not as important as salary cap space. We picked the best player in the 2019 draft and are about to lose him well before his prime for less than we paid for him.

Just because you are a retired or recently retired footballer doesn't mean you'll be a good assistant coach. Good communication skills and high footy IQ and knowing how to teach it are crucial.

I'd imagine a team bring Bowes in signs him for 3 years 2 million. That's 666 per year. He gets his 825 for 2 years (1.65) and then a third year at 350k to smooth it over. Given he's probably worth about 333k you're paying 333k per year extra across the 3 years. My question is what would we prefer over the next 3 years: Option A) 2 solid 333k players. For instance Hunt and another player, both of whom might fit the best 22 better. Option B) bank that 666k to put towards 1 really important player coming in to the best 22 Option C) Bowes, who really might not fit the best 22, and pick 7* I can see the appeal of option C. But I've said all along I just don't think Bowes is that bad or that expensive that he'll demand pick 7 outright. I still think the Suns will ask for a future first or an early second in return for pick 7 and they won't have interest in our pick. Suddenly we've paid out the chance of signing 1 or 2 important players to improve the team and we've got a pick 8 (post Ashcroft bid) in a draft we're already working to secure a top 10 pick in and we might've given up a future first to do so. That's a dangerous part of the draft to have 2 nibbles, particularly when you're in a contending window and won't be prioritising game time or coaching towards young players. I'd want it to be pick 7 straight up and I'd want our coaches to be really keen on Bowes and have a spot for him. If neither of those things are true and we'd be stuck with Bowes and only shuffling a pick up the draft board from next year to this I'd be reluctant. I'd need JT to convince me the pick 7 and any Jackson picks are falling in a very tasty part of the draft in which 2 bites can be important.

No. I spoke to membership depart last week. Among other things they said 2023 membership etc costs won't be available till mid October. Yesterday I got confirmation of the cost of my roll over membership. I am not surprised the membership costs are rising it goes with being successful. The choice? pay more for belonging to a successful club or pay less for following an unsuccessfully club. I have spent way too many years with the later. First one please

Let's just hope he attends the right burning man and it's not a burning little man, because, you know, St Kilda.

heard it was not the existence of such clauses but the wording being too vague and open-ended they'll work it all out