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A cold morning. A staggered start. Rehab had Jake Melksham, Michael Hibberd, running and ball work. Mitch King doing light duties with them. A small group trained with the running coaches till joined by the rest, absent Max Gawn. Max on the paddock in track pants and runners. No obvious strapping, walked laps and did a couple of runs. Drills done professionally. Cam Pederson, Jayden Hunt and Josh Wagner in the defense during simulations and doing well. Jayden ready for speed and Cam is zoning well. Lachlan Filipovic was doing some drills with the mids. Though during simulations was ruck practicing with Mitch King and not in the contest. The intensity of simulations built up as the players made more contact with each other. Thought Neville Jetta and Jesse Hogan were a bit hampered till they contested, looking good. The squad trained well. from Kev Martin

I doubt it. The only risk to culture is if he takes up too much salary cap space, it will have nothing to do with the punch. Lewis is a serial offender and has been very lucky not to have caused more damage in the past...he's said to be a positive player in our development of culture. Gaff will be a big plus if he comes to us.

This is the problem. He didn't murder anyone. He didn't mean to maim his face and knock his teeth out. He didn't mean to cause permanent damage. It was all an accident. He just meant to hit him, too take his frustration out a bit and to incapacitate him long enough to run off. And he is a good bloke, and this is out of character. Never before in 20 years of sport. He has such a good track record. BUT This action could have killed someone. Maybe not on a football field, but on a footpath. Or in different circumstances. And in that case we would be crowing "coward punch" and "thug". If the action has that sort of potential for harm, it shouldn't be acceptable and should be called out. Worse is that it is on tv, in front of an audience as a role model for kids (whether we like that or not). The outcry is justified as is the punishment. Because society needs to see this view of behavior as unacceptable, whether the victim stands up and walks away or doesn't.

Thought I may start this thread to open the discussion into the players some people think may not be at the club for any number of reasons next year. Having looked through our list, I came up with 14 that I think fall into this category. Not to say I don't think all 14 wont be there, but that they're the 14 most in danger so to speak and anywhere from half to 10 of them may not be there. So thought I'd lay them out and see what other people thought or if there were other players people also thought would fall into this bracket. RETIREMENTS: Harley Balic (already retired) Cameron Pedersen & Bernie Vince: Now these two may retire off their own bat, or they may get delisted. But I highly doubt either of these two will be there next year. Pedersen is probably playing well enough at VFL level to be picked up by another club as a good depth player. Bernie is on the record as saying in the media he wants to play for as long as he can. If no other club is interested, maybe he'd be happy to sign on at Casey to help develop the young guys? POTENTIAL TRADE BAIT: Sam Frost: He's contracted and I think he'll likely stay, but with Lever to return next year and both Harrison Petty & Declan Keilty on the list, will Sam or the club see the writting on the wall on look to explore their options? Personally I think he's more likely to stay then leave unless we get an offer to good to refuse. Dean Kent: Out of contract and out of favor, Dean may look to explore his options at years end. With Jeffy not getting any younger, I think think there's a potential role in our best 22 for Dean, however a combination of form and injuries haven't allowed him to cement a spot. WA boy, however I think he's either about to or has just recently become a father, so not sure if his partner is a WA or VIC girl? 50/50 on whether Dean stays or goes for me. Dom Tyson: Similar to Frost, Dom is contracted and at his best we know that he's a very good player. However, with a midfield of Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney hopefully being injury free and Jones I think still having 2 years left in him beyond this year, is there a spot for Dom in our best team? He's also too good a player to be a depth player, spending half the year in the VFL IMO. We may use Dom to try and improve our draft hand, given we have no first round pick, or he may come to us and request a trade himself if he wants to further his opportunities. Either way, as he's contracted, it will need to be a good trade. Think Dom may be more likely to leave then stay, but that's just a gut feel. POTENTIAL DELISTINGS: Tom Bugg: I'm going to be honest and admitt that I like Tommy Bugg. I see value in a depth player like Bugg and was actually surprised when Vandenberg came in for Melksham the other week, as I see that as a role that Bugg would perform well in. Having said that, I'm a realist and the lack of matches Bugg has played this year, especially in the 2nd half of the year says it all. I expect him to be delisted, but hope another team picks him up as a DFA. Lachie Filipovic: Pretty sure it was 4 or 5 out of his first 6 games in the VFL D-League last year, Lachie was named in the best, and I was thinking to myself we could have a good one here! However to say this year has been disapointing from a supporters point of view would be a huge understatement. He looks athletic and agile enough, but from the half dozen games I've watched Flip this year, he just isn't competative enough in the ruck, doesn't get involved enough in the play, and can't seem to take a mark to save himself. I know rucks take time, but Lachie looks a long, long way off. This was most evident on the weekend when Mitch King injured his knee and instead of Flip going into the ruck, Tim Smith & Weideman were asked to share those responsibilities. Will be shocked if he's still there come next year. Dion Johnston: Quite bizzare is the Dion Johnston story so far. Recruited as a small forward and was talked up heavily in his first pre-season by Nathan Jones as someone to watch out for. And although Plapp regularly sung his praises re: his forward pressure and doing the team things at Casey throughout his first season, the main thing that stood out was Dion's inability to hit the score board or get much of the ball. Things seemed to be following a similar trend early this year, until Rawlings moved Dion into a small defenders role and it was reported Dion had also been teamed up with Nev as a mentor. Now since the move Dion certainly hasn't dominated, but he's looked a lot more at home in defence and there could well be something there to work with. He's no certainty to be on the list next year, however I wouldn't be surprised if he received a 1 year extension to push his case further, and personally I'd be more then happy with that. Declan Keilty: When we recruited Declan at the end of 2016 I was wrapped that we got him as I saw a huge amount of upside in this guy. Good CHB with the ability to play forward and pinch hit in the ruck. I then thought his 2017 was a little underwhelming and was a little surprised when he was given another year for 2018. However I'm glad the coaches did as I think he has been sensational down at Casey this year. Played mainly back with a couple of stints forward, Declan's aerial game especially has gone to another level this year. Now the club may consider delisting him given Lever & Oscar seem to be the prefered options, Petty is coming through and the fact Frost is also contracted. However given Declan's versatility and the fact Pedersen will likely be moved on, I think the club will see Declan as our new Pedersen with the ability to fill holes where required. I hope & expect Declan to be given a 3rd year on the rookie list. Jay Kennedy-Harris: Like many on here, about 6 weeks ago I thought JKH was an automatic delist come years end, however he's grasped this opportunity that has come his way thanks to good form in the VFL prior and an unfortunate injury to Stretch. I conceed JKH lacks certain tricks, however he does the team things well and there's nothing wrong with retaining certain foot soldiers. I'd imagine he's played his way into a new 1 year deal if he wants it. Mitch King: Of the two young ruckman on our list, Mitch King is the more promising. He does show a willingness to compete and drift forward to take a mark and goal. He's also had injury issues in his three years at the club including doing an ACL on his VFL debut back in 2016. However despite these admirable traits, King gets monstered on a regular basis at VFL level, meaning I'd hate to see what would happen if Max got injured and Mitch came in for him in the AFL. Mitch could well make it at AFL level, however I suspect that may well be up to 5 years away, which is a big investment to make with no guarentees. I'd imagine the club is more likely then not to delist and encourage him to join a VFL, SANFL, WAFL or NEAFL team and follow his progress. Pat McKenna: Was best on ground in the 2016 NEAFL Grand Final the smooth moving midfielder/half back with good kicking skills. The talented junior cricket star has been crueled by hamstring injuries since joining the club, but in the last few weeks he's finally been able to get out on the park for Casey. Baring any major hamstring injury in the last few weeks of this season, I expect the club will give him a further 1 year deal in the same manner they gave Hunt 1 year after his initial 2 years that were hampered by back issues. Tim Smith: Has been in & out of the team this year and been not to bad when given the opportunity. Has shown that he is a very good and mobile forward at VFL level, and his aerobic capacity makes him an ideal call up for either of Hogan or Tommy Mc, should injury or suspension strike. Given the clubs eagerness to play him and name him as an emergency on a regular basis, I expect that he will also be given a 3rd year on the rookie list. Finally I thought I should briefly touch on four other players who could fall into the above category, however I suspect there's next to no chance of them leaving/being delsited/traded. These players being Jayden Hunt, Billy Stretch, Aaron Vandenberg & Sam Weideman. Apart from the fact that 3 of these 4 are contracted, I feel as though the club rates all these players far to highly and/or have invested too much for them to consider parting ways with, even if they requested a trade. Interested to hear if other people agree, or if there's others you feel may be in danger or ones that I listed above who I think will stay, but you think will leave?

Great viewing! Great to see Jacko is still a Melbourne supporter with Oliver his favourite player and urging Hogan to be more selfish.

We'd be stupid to trade Frost. We'd get a soggy banana for him, and we've seen with injuries just how important backline depth is. Besides, I think Frost can slot into our best 22, and once Lever is back, the pressure on Frost to take the game on, and inevitably turn the ball over, will dramatically decrease, which will make him a far more reliable player.

Wasn't sure where to ask this, but the few weeks the team was a bit flat (Collingwood, Port, St Kilda) - would that have coincided with a heavy block of training? I remember a few years back or more, the good teams did heavy blocks of training from around the middle of the season for around 4 weeks, then taper off before finals.

As a Dees fan you should always be on 24 hour alert. We're always at DEFCON 1.

Roos understands the evolution of the team. Many posting on the Goodwin thread would do well to heed his views. Naturally, they won't/can't.

Big ask for Joel Smith

Hope you haven't bought a ticket to Sydney.

Dickson and Dal Santo on Fox claiming Oscar has to be the match up for Franklin due to a “lack of other options”. Then went on to speak about the need to cut down Buddy’s leading space and nullify his athleticism. Not a single, solitary mention of Frost. Can the bar for footy analysis actually get any lower?

Absolutely no chance ANB is dropped. The bloke has been in terrific form over the last month and is one of our fittest players. I guarantee he'll play.

what was his disposal efficiency? ?

A lot has been written on this post about what a nice guy Gaff is, how uncharacteristic his attack on Brayshaw was, and how upset he currently is about his actions - almost to the extent that the authors are looking for reasons, in their own minds, to excuse his actions. I use the word “excuse” because those characteristics certainly don’t explain his actions. But they do offer a good number of Demon supporters some justification for still wanting Gaff to join the Dees. But why did he do it? He didn’t try to chop an arm that may have been hindering him or use a “don’t argue” to gain some distance - the methods most players use to escape. He deliberately chose to use a forceful closed fist punch to break away. In terms of intent, where he hit Brayshaw is irrelevant, he chose to punch him. The pressure of the game situation couldn’t have caused this - WCE’s were winning comfortably, Gaff was playing very well and their top 2 position was not being threatened. The only explanation offered, because of his good character, is “brain fade”. A layman’s definition of brain fade could be an unconscious act or desire escaping the prison of the brain unfiltered. Minor brain fades occur all the time - he kicked when he should of handballed, or went for the mark when he should have punched. Players are skilled in what to do and what not to do every single week of their playing careers, it’s ingrained, and because of this, of all the thousands of players who have played AFL/VFL football, there have only been, fortunately, very few who have had brain fades of this magnitude - Bugg, Hall, Mathews to name some more recent players that come to mind. In fact a player of 170+ games, who knows how important he is to his teams success come September, would know internally that you don’t make stupid decisions that will jeopardise your teams chances. Yet he did. Is he likely to do it again? Probably not, but who knows? Hall and Mathews certainly did. Bugg hasn’t to date. And quite apart from his impact on Brayshaw, his actions have certainly affected his team. And that to me is a huge issue. We appear to have a wonderful group of current players and coaches who are developing our own unique team culture, and for me Gaff, post incident, and as good a player as he is, has shown that he could be a risk to that culture. So for all of that, and I know I am in the minority here, I would prefer if we didn’t chase Gaff.

Well Richmond haven’t beaten anyone above them this season!

Apart from a Demon victory against the Swans, I have high hopes of this rounds results falling our way to assist in shoring up our top 8 spot and there's a few crunch games that will again have a huge bearing on where we will sit come Sunday evening. A Geelong win over the Hawks is to our benefit although it will bring the Cats into 48 points as well. An Eagles win over the Power would also benefit us but I can't see that happening without Gaff, Kennedy and Nic Nat. An upset win by the Lions over the filth would be glorious and at Etihad I think it's real possibility. Can the Crows shock the Giants in Canberra? Unlikely but it would be great for us. I'll be barracking hard for the Dogs to defeat North to keep them outside the 8. So if everything goes to plan, 3rd spot on the ladder beckons but most importantly we put a gap between our challengers.

Loved him. Didn’t love them constantly talking over him.

Frost v Franklin is the key

Nah I rode it to training, Max walked and jogged, got a big thumbs up, got same message from all, Goody does not BS, pointless exercise to him

IMO the most likely safe path to the 8 with 13 wins: R21: MFC d Syd R21: Geel d Haw R22: Ade d Nth Then North and the loser of Sydney and Hawthorn in the last round cannot make it no matter what else happens in R22 and 23.

How important has Frosty been since Lever went down then Hibbo, Unless its an incredible offer he is a must keep, he's best 22 when Lever is fit. Vince, Pedersen happy for them to go around again with the same proviso that they could be playing in the VFL more often than not.

RIP Jarrod. Passed away in front of family 8:20pm last night. Hopefully we bring home the flag for you mate

Thank god for you Andy. I just enjoy this site for discussing my favourite topic with like minded people, without enough praise for the admin that goes on in the background to make it all possible. 3 votes to you mate.

Uh oh, we've been talked up, it's a big high profile game being broadcast everywhere, and there's a lot to gain. I must not panic. I must not panic. I must not panic. By the way, if all the right results happen this round, we can actually be two games and 15% points ahead of 9th (Geelong), with obviously only two rounds to go. For once we'd be on the good side of the 'only really a mathematical possibility' saying. In fact, in a show of how mad this season is, all but the Richmond - Gold Coast and the Carlton - Fremantle games matter to our final position. Best Case - The right results in seven games, and we are not just in the 8 at the end of the season, but secure in at least 7th with any chasers needing to win all remaining possible games and gain at least 15 percentage points, just to catch us even if we lose both remaining games. We would also only need one more win, specifically against GWS in the final round, to guarante a top-4 finish. Worst Case - We finish the round as one of four teams on 12 wins, two inside the 8 and two outside, with another two teams on 11 wins. And we'd have by far the toughest draw of the four teams on 12. Of course, we'd also still only be one win out of the top 4. I've been annoying people for weeks saying over and over each week that 'this is the most important game for the Demons in almost 12 years', but, well, this is the most important game for the Demons in almost 12 years.

I think you’ll find it’s more like 950k a year

You must be new here

I would put Goodwin on the Dave Mission category of "grain of salt".. said Melksham would only miss 1 week.. I still think Gawn is highly unlikely to play.

You should.

Pretty gutsy call debuting a very young ruckman coming off a 2 possession 2 hitout game in the VFL.

If they strapped it on the weekend and put him back on, then there is 0% chance it was a strain. This really only leaves a cork, albeit possibly a bad one. Bad or not, if its a knock/cork then he is zero risk of not playing this weekend. Its really only then about managing discomfort.

I have heard from my very reliable source close to Max that he pulled up with a very sore calf after Sunday. i was told this earlier in the week but was hopeful with the game not until Sunday that it wasn’t as bad as it sounded.

North no. 4. mental image of Ben Brown wildly flapping his arms around. someone touched me! contact Goal Attack!

I've seen this covered before... It's because we take more of our shots from close in to the goals. Seems part of the plan.

I said this last week but Dees players had a day off due to the new CBA rules and Gawn was spotted at Gosch's running laps and having set shots by himself. I would imagine today is a rest day in lieu of last week. It made the news anyway. Just a guess though.

It’s unfair that Adelaide had to play us twice! They could be sitting in 3rd if that hadn’t happened!

I like that we have three tough assignments on the run home. It should keep the players on their toes with no complacency unlike the Round 23 debacle last season.

...and if they're not.. then we most certainly are ?

We will finish top 4 this year. The boys are ready.

I thought the same when Clarrie took that kick. I think SEN may be referring to this photo of the Great Man. Camera at different angle but very similar action. Clarrie is a delight to watch as I'm sure RDB was.

Bugg to come in? What? Bad timing?

Im expecting nothing less than a double team on Franklin, They went to him 90% of the time against the pies. If this doesn't happen its total incompetence from Goodwin and his coaching goons. I want to pack these A holes up for the year and make statement of intent sunday Im call this #NoExcuseSunday

Where is the cool, calm head and wisdom of Campbell Brown when you need it?!

And he is 13! #reversethecurse

Keep Franklin relatively quiet and we win. To me it is that simple. We easily match them all over the ground, but Franklin is the X-factor. Let him get off the leash and we have a serious game on our hands. Keep him out of the action most of the time and I fail to see how they can kick a winning score against the best offense in the league. Dees by 5 goals.

Just had a look at the odds for the flag and the bookies have us equal 2nd favourites... Win this weekend and we'll be more popular than jesus.