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The morning brisk and a little windy, with beautiful blue skies. It was a much harder session then the other ones I've seen. Strength in the tackle and hard running. In rehab was Mitch King, Dion Johnstone, Tim Smith and Jayden Hunt with light duties being Mitch Hannan and Neville Jetta. Neville and Hannan rejoined the main group. After initial warm up, group spilt into positional groups: Fwds included Sam Wiedeman, Dean Kent, Harley Balic, Jay Kennedy-Harris, Charlie Spargo, Aaron vandenBerg. Backs included Cam Pederson, Pat Mckenna, Joel Smith. Mids included Christian Petracca, James Harmes, Dom Tyson, Oscar Baker, Bailey Fritsch. They didn't stay long in these groups and moved to simulations fairly quickly. The first simulations had no talls. Again using lateral movements to find a corridor. They were intercepting the ball and filling space in front of the receiver. There was plenty of talk about positional structures. The talls were drilling contested marking (strength and holding ground) and low ball gathering. They broke again into skill drills and back to simulations. Simulations seemed to include the squad for the weekend. Included were Bernie Vince, Joel Smith, Dom Tyson, Josh Wagner, Jay Kennedy-Harris, Neville Jetta but not Mitch Hannan. They were hard at it with medium strength tackling and contests. Plenty of talk and encouragement was heard. Nathan Jones, Christian Petracca and Angus Brayshaw had 50 and 75 meter sprints under fitness coach who worked them hard. Bernie Vince and Jordan Lewis drilled in kicking to leads after rolling away from mark. I didn't notice the Michael Hibberd incident.

Staggering that Goodwin would use words in a press conference. What was he thinking.

At first I was afraid, I was petrified Kept thinking I could never live without Viney, Lever and Hibberd in our side But then I spent so many nights thinking how the dees have done me wrong And I grew strong And I learned how to get along And so when you're back You can thank Omac For making the finals and removing that sad look upon your face Because finishing 9th would have been such bad disgrace Did you think the dees would lay down and die? Oh no, not I, we will survive Hey, hey

So I thought given I have some time at work I'd do a little update on Dec. After a slow start to the year due to some injuries, after a strong pre-season, Keilty has been in some decent form in the last 2-3 months. I think he's close to getting his debut but given the importance of the upcoming games he'll probably miss out again. Maybe if they choose to rest an OMac or someone for the Suns game he could come in but I don't know how the coaches are looking at him. The knock on Keilty's game is he isn't a huge possession getter, but the majority of his touches are more often then not important. For example; on the weekend vs Footscray, in the last quarter we had just kicked a behind and the Dog's bombed it out from full back straight up the guts using the wind where it nearly reached half way. Keilty was in a 2v1 and stood up in front and pulled down a massive grab that even the Footscray supporters were cheering. If he hadn't won the contest there was a good chance the dogs could've used the massive bomb to get over the back which would have put them within 8 points in the last quarter, so I thought it was a big moment to help Casey win the game. My personal worry is if he doesn't manage to crack into the team this season, given he was a late rookie pick, and even though he is playing good football and is still improving each game, he might find himself without a job at the end of the year, but I hope and wish the club give him his 3rd and final year on the Rookie list to give him the best chance to show he can be a good player for this great club..... but we will have to wait and see.

Gee, there's a lot of huffing and puffing on here about what should be a basic recovery for professional athletes. We won the week after Darwin and surged in the second half of the game, didn't we? Must have been really tired from the tropical exertion. Blame Hibberd's quad, done at training this morning, on a game two weeks ago? Or a toe injury to Stretch that is probably not even related to heat and humidity? Or Viney's foot condition that was pre-existing? Correlation does not equal causation, and in these instances there's probably not even a correlation. What about all the people in the NT who love going to the games? The TV exposure we get, not just during the game? The great financial benefits? Oh, that's right, just abandon the concept and leave it to "someone else".

I reckon we should start Fristch on HB. we need some run and class back there now. he looked comfortable down there Waggers and Tyson in for Hibbo and Hannan

Sick of the these bloody words. Every press conference he just keeps talking. If he doesn't express his views via interpretive dance next week then I say we look for a new coach.

You are forgetting just how bad we were. Strauss, Blease, Nicholson, Sellar, Magnar, Gillies, Rodan and on and on.. It was an absolute **** show. Carlton has a much better list.

Did you see Geelong play last week? Their defence was mistake-riddled when rebounding and their forwardline looked one-dimensional. Their much talked about midfield has lost contested possessions and clearances most of the year. I just came from the 'Mr Jones' thread. The negativity about our own players is incredible. Jones and Viney bagged and now Hogan can't lead. I think most here think a team can only win a premiership with 22 super stars. Plenty of role players with obvious flaws have tasted premiership success. We're a pretty handy team that is getting better. Sure we have a few deficiencies and a few players who can turn it over but so does every team. We also have the most impressive contested ball winning midfield in the league, two quality key position forwards and the form ruckman of the competition. We might just be ok.

Bailey Fritsch > Nik Nat

The talent that Carlton has on its list is considerable. However, like we were prior to Roos, you can have all the talent you wish, but you have to develop and import maturity to get results. SoS made the claim that much of the talent was sourced by letting go of the likes of Tuohy, Garlett, Betts, Waite, Gibbs. Trouble is, has that made the side any better? The results don't show it. The problem for Carlton is they got rid of their mature players, and replaced them with not only talent, but a swathe of duds, particularly from GWS. But as SWYL said, their success over many years was dependant upon buying players. Their culture knows no other, and until they learn ( as we did with Roos) that you develop the talent and you supplement with maturity, then they will be destined to the bottom reaches for a long long time. How would our side look without Hibberd, Garlett, Melksham, Vince, & Lewis? How much better is the side because of the development that went into Jetta, OMac, Hunt, Harmes and ANB who are all regular first 22 when fit? The sad thing is that like happened to us in years past, that the talented youngsters like Cripps, McKay, Weitering, Curnow etc, will fade because they are just getting smashed each week since they have no support around them. Losing by 10 goals regularly does nothing for confidence, and the willingness to turn up every week. It becomes a cancer, once again, as we have seen. Murphy is as disinterested as possible, further compounding the problem. Their situation will worsen as Kruezer and Simpson don't have much left, and to replace them will take years of development.

He is saying pragmatically, the more exposure to 'finals' pressure games the better we get at them... and that is only good for the playing list to 'learn' how to play and experience it directly. That's WTF he meant by that.

If you can find me one sports scientist or professional coach that says that playing in Darwin is a good idea (and by that I don't mean a neutral opinion) then I will agree. Football is a game of inches and we need every advantage we can get. Playing in Darwin is not an advantage.

I think you underestimate the run and drive he creates out of defence. He is a big loss especially when compounded with the losses of Viney and Lever.

We are getting to the point where players are asked to replace those they just can’t replace. Our best mid and now our top 2 defenders... The passage way to September is getting narrower.

Oh [censored] me.. Huge out indeed.. I'd bring in Wagner instead of Smith.

Noticed that Hibberd pulled up sharply after kicking the ball late in training. Seemed to be a quad strain to me, walked/limped off immediately. Re Guthrie above - When they split out the seconds players I noticed both Tyson and J Smith were involved in a 3/4 ground ball movement drill with the ones then Tyson was involved in a mid group drill.

Every single club has those coulda-woulda-shoulda moments. If a club manages to find some absolute jet at a pick in the 40s, it usually means every club has passed on him at least once, including the one that took him. You might say “we could have had Cripps/Brown/Whoever” - but so could just about everyone. There will always be wins and busts in the draft. Taylor’s strikerate is as good as anyone’s.

He is an exceptional tap ruckman when fit and for him to do what he's done on 60% TOG this year is very impressive. The perception of him being overrated was in part due to the 2012 AA guernsey he got when he didn't deserve it.

It seems that the word “realistically” should be removed from the title.

This kid HAS to play in our side for the remainder of the year. Was so impressive again on Saturday night - notice how often he got front and square to rove the packs in the forward line? His goal in the second quarter was exhibit A. We've lacked a genuine crumber like that for years! Jeffy relies more on leg speed to get out into the open for his goals and crumbs the odd one but Spargo has pure football nous. Add to that his competitiveness, decision making (very poised for a first year player) and ability to tackle, and you've got a very handy footballer. Here's hoping that they don't drop him for the rest of the year unless he needs a rest.

Brayshaw is closing in on Oliver. His form is that good. He has sailed past every mid we have bar Oliver. Of course Clayton has the points on the board after putting in multiple seasons of quality, but Brayshaw is bordering on elite. I have been watching him closely and he has better traits than elite players, he moves better, is more aggressive, and is dominant physically (asserts himself on the contest). His kicking lets him down at times, but he used to be a good kick as a junior on both feet (so I would expect that will translate eventually). Whatever it takes to keep Brayshaw it is of most importance. On form he is our best midfielder after Oliver, and even then he is rapidly closing in. I have Brayshaw in my supercoach and have had for sometime, so I watch him more closely than others. I think even Dees fans are sleeping on the Brayshaw.

Needs to play for AFL lovechild club

Really bad break for Nic Nat. Hope he recovers quickly and plays again. Given Max Gawn's rise to the premier ruckman in the Afl for at least the last two seasons has anyone given thought that if we had chosen Nic Nat instead of JW Maxy most probably wouldn't be in our team and possibly playing for another club. So we made the right choice I reckon. Just food for thought. I know who is the more valuable player.

Pretty incredible that a 51 game 20 year old player (21 tomorrow I think) is equal no.1 in Champion Data player ratings as discussed by Glenn Luff on 3AW tonight.

It’s like putting a towel on a poolside sunlounge at a hotel resort, then going out on a morning shopping tour.

To be fair, Viney said he had discomfort in his foot prior to the Darwin game. So it's Stretch and Hibberd. I think it's a long bow to draw in terms of Darwin having that affect, considering how we ran out last weekends game without any issue. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather not play there, but blaming it for a couple of injuries is a stretch a best, pun intended.

Viney is not our best mid...just sayin...

Beat me to it

daisy - are you suggesting something to do with the poor evolution of the quadriceps?

I'm staggered that we need to have the same conversation on this topic every week.

Has to be Wagner for Hibberd. He is far more closer to the type of player Hibbo is than Joel Smith.

So he should, he is much to blame for getting this club into this mess for the amount of duds hes brought into that side. I always shake my head how hes escaped scrutiny for not only Carltons rebuild but also at GWS to start off with.

Yes, I watched their entire game. I'm going off of what we've seen to date. Geelong lost to a fired up Adelaide away from home and are now in jeapody of losing their position in the 8. Do you believe they won't respond? I'm the realist anonymous Melbourne supporter you'll meet. If I think we're a good bet, I'll say so. And I'm simply saying that I can't see us winning this weekend given my reasoning. Which is backed off an entire season of results and trends in our play. We're yet to take a scalp. We're yet to win a prime time game. And we're yet to make a statement. Also, there's a difference between "Can't" lead and "leading to the wrong spots far too often". And if you don't agree, I suggest you watch how often Hogan and McDonald get in the way of each other during games. I admire what Goodwin has done since his takeover. It's nice to know that we're one of the best contested possession sides in the AFL, even 'the' best. But maybe unlike you, I don't get carried away with those positives due to the good work that comes undone so often in games. In short, if those areas of our game are even a little off, we're an extremely vulnerable side because of our inability to stop opposition scores once inside our defensive 50. All the top sides know this. And they've beaten us by outcoaching and outsmarting us.

I’ll never forget a game Dad and I attended at Kardinia. I would have been in my early teens at the time (so comfortably over 20 years ago now). We had been down at Airies Inlet for the weekend at my uncles house (he goes for Geelong of course), we had had a great weekend of spear fishing, walks on the beach and mountain bike riding through the back blocks up on the hill. We were standing on the gravel hill on the Moorabool St side of the ground, amongst a bunch of Collingwood’esk type supporters of the hoops. Now, as anyone knows, when faced with such surroundings, it is prudent to keep things pretty cool and not get carried away with your supporting. This we did and were very civilised all game. Unfortunately we lost the game and were stollling across the oval after the game had finished to get to the car park only to be affronted half way across by another Dad and his son (who would have been about 8-10years at the time). This Dad was clearly in a rage about something and was hurling some seriously obscene abuse in our direction from about 10m away, Dad gave a little bit back but but was very reserved probably taken aback that a bloke with his young son would be so eager to use the c, f, s words and every other profanity you can mention at full voice. One can only assume that he had some sort of problem and was struggling with something that we can only imagine. We still talk about it today and shake our heads in disbelief. That young boy would be in his late 20s to early 30s today and I wonder what would have become of him. Would he follow in the footsteps of his Dad and use footy as an outlet for his inner rage or would he have realised that his Dad was a [censored] and have disowned him years ago? Who knows. What I do know, is that in years gone by I always dreaded playing Geelong anywhere, but especially at Kardinia. But this year, I am not the least bit concerned about playing them there, instead I’m glad it’s there and not at the G. Time will tell if my confidence was misplaced. Please Melbourne, bring your A game and get the job done. You’ve put us through many years of pain and suffering, now it’s time to realise the potential and shut that bloke from 20 years ago up! ??????????????

Can't understand why you post this. What is the point of putting up a preferred team. Its pretty much completely useless information. Maybe you are in an alternative Universe.

Whilst beating an injury hit and out of form bulldogs in a single quarter was nice, I simply cannot see us beating Geelong down there for too many reasons. For one, we still make far too many mistakes as a side and Geelong are a team who will punish turnovers from our defensive 50. Frost is my case in point. He is playing, so we're already in trouble in that regard. Aside from the third quarter of last week, we were again extremely inefficient when going inside 50. Whether it's Hogan leading to the wrong spots far too often or our mids and half forwards kicking to the wrong spots and refusing to lower their eyes again, it happened all game aside from the third. Defensively, last week was an improvement. But it's the first game all year whereby opposition weren't scoring at will when the ball was going inside their forward 50. That body of work doesn't bode well for this game. We'll need all those three things to go right as well as having some outstanding indivial efforts for us to get up. We are yet to beat a strong AFL side this year who haven't been hit by injury. In short, I think we still have too many major deficiencies as a side that always seem to be magnified whenever we play top sides. Geelong by 35

Hannan for me. Give Trac more midfield time and let him be the grunt.

We luv ya Charlie....bvgger what the propagandists spout ??? Go you good Dee

Right now he’d quite possibly be their third best mid if they played him there. Carlton’s situation gets more dire the more you look at it.

Weitering could be worth a crack even though he's under contract. Lever will be of most value when playing that true third intercept defender. Oscar and Weitering to mark talls with Lever as intercept. Two key backs and Lever as the intercept specialist.

It's not that clear cut. Tyson is unarguably a better footballer, but Hannan fits our team better at the moment. Tyson "only" averages 2.4 clearances this year because he's been played out of position on a wing. If he played in the centre to replace Viney he'd rack up clearances like he used to, as he's a good inside midfielder. With Viney going down, he may be called upon to play in his natural position where he can thrive. Hannan is struggling recently. He's still chiming in with a goal every week, but he's really not impacting games. He just doesn't lay enough tackles or contribute to enough goals. There are others that could perform his role better on form. I'd actually be keen to bring Bugg in to play Hannans forward role. Bugg lays more tackles, wins more hard ball, gets to more contests, generates more scoring shots, is part of more scoring chains, and has the versatility to play tagger/midfield/back pocket also. Don't mind his pest attitude too, that sort of niggle and hardness will be useful come finals time. He should be in the team IMO.

Once again, I think some are confusing the points here. The consistent line is Jones was the only one who tried hard every week, but he was surrounded by players who weren't good enough. When Roos got to the club he did an interview on the MFC website that discussed how Jones would play easy footy, the handballs out the back, the long kicks to no one. Nathan himself has admitted that he improved and became a better player under Roos, winning the BnF in 2014. Our list was ordinary again that year. Since then, others have gone past him. Some posters who I respect are also suggesting Jones is being judged merely for poor form this year. When I talk about his leadership qualities onfield, I am referring to his entire body of work. It's Jones' leadership credentials that I would debate the most. Neitz was a guy who could turn a game. He was no Franklin or Judd or Ablett, but he was capable of turning games. Jones has rarely, if ever, turned games. That's just fact. If there's evidence to the contrary, people would be able to point to this. He did lay one of his two big tackles in that quarter that led to Spargo's goal actually, but yes, he certainly didn't create the momentum in that quarter. Nor does he. Yep. I'd take SWYL's post to mean that the fact Jones has been held up as a champion A grader by some supporters (the same way some lauded Brock McLean and Jack Grimes), shows how bad we've been, given Nathan's actual abilities have never been A grade.

Back in my day you’d cop a flogging for not being able to kick on both feet. Then you’d have to walk 40 mile in the snow to get home.

I would love to See Tomas back in the side, come September. He is an in your face player, but he has to work his ass off. Dean Chiron i always thought was a similar player. Not pretty, but did a job

That’s revisionism - at least in Martin’s case. Many were spewing when Neeld traded Martin. He was a good ruckman when he was here, the problem was that he was behind Mark Jamar in the pecking order and he couldn’t play anywhere else. There were also a few personal issues at the club that might have prevented him from staying anyway.

He’s grown a little, now 2.04 metre Peter.

It’s great to have 2 newbies in Spargo and Fritsch that know how to use the ball. Because of that they don’t have to have a zillion possessions to impact. Spargo seems very focussed, concentrates and doesn’t go in for extravagant celebrations. Love watching Charlie and Bayley play. Great recruiting

Nice work, Dr. D. My only quibble would be that naming Oskar Baker and Weed as 'potential misses' is a tad premature.