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5 years after the event an academic can tell me that Richmond picked better players at the draft than Melbourne....wow!

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A happy new year to all... I know a lot got upset with certain results in 2017 and missing finals but I reckon that could be put down to the age of our prime movers and injury to key players It's not so much that we have a young list, it's that our real quality match winners are 19 - 23 year olds and you expect some inconsistencies. Another year older and the addition of Lever I believe makes 2018 a whole different ball game. Barring significant injury, if we don't make solid inroads into the finals series then we will need to ask questions. I think the list is well set now to win one in the next few years. So...2018 Here we Come. Time to get excited 'Demonlanders'

Probably.

Ignores the fact Richmond did a Bradbury

Have we....?? I see a lot of potential but none of them have taken a match by the scruff of the neck as yet.

Whoever wrote that tripe is clearly a Caring Understanding Nineties Type.

The fog of despair that has now engulfed the Melbourne Football Club for more than a decade since its last finals appearance is lifting but at a such slow rate and in small steps so that it continues to frustrate supporters. In 2017 we saw Richmond come from way back and leapfrog over Melbourne and into the top four, from which it launched a successful campaign to win the premiership. On the other hand, the Demons, which showed promising form in the JLT pre season series and opened with two wins, sagged under the weight of injuries and suspensions, recovered in mid season and fell at the end to miss out on the finals by the narrowest of percentage margins. Perhaps, it was just as well because they appeared to have run out of steam in the end.The early season reports of Bernie Vince, Jordan Lewis and Jesse Hogan hurt the club badly as did the Max Gawn hamstring tear and the tribulations of Jesse Hogan that dogged the club in the first half of the season. Losses to the lower down the list Fremantle and Hawthorn didn’t help, nor the continued poor results against North Melbourne (twice) or the disaster on Anzac Eve when, hit by injuries during the game, they succumbed in time on at the end after dominating the eventual premier for most of the game.The frustration came once again in the form of inconsistency. One of the year’s best performances came at Adelaide Oval in round 8 against the Crows who were premiership favourites. The team came back from a deficit of almost five goals to win in a canter but the victory was sandwiched in between those narrow losses at the hands of the Dockers and the Hawks.The club did strike a good vein of form in the middle of the year under difficult circumstances when it recorded some good wins despite a run of six day breaks. Using a makeshift ruck, Simon Goodwin had come up with some interesting winning moves. Tom McDonald went forward and played in the ruck alongside Cam Pedersen and occasionally Jack Watts, the midfield with its blend of experience, youth and a hardened edge blossomed and the wins came. The highlight was a big win over the Bulldogs at Etihad Stadium followed by a nail biting victory in Perth over the Eagles.However, it was at that point in time when the team’s spirits were at their highest, that another run of injuries and the tough schedule that saw four games played in 18 days conspired to bring it down. Glowing reports and talk of a potential top four placing at the end of the season were met with Melbourne’s lacklustre effort on a Friday night against the Swans. It was an ominous sign. Suddenly, the Demons were without their co-skippers and with Christian Salem and Watts sidelined and Gawn and Hogan struggling to return to form after long layoffs, the team’s bubble burst at the seams. Even when it was able to win its matches, it was unable to hold on and then increase winning leads. In a season when the difference between an early end and September action was a matter of only two goals, there were too many fade outs. And in round 23, the team ran out of steam and hit the wall hard. With everything to gain, yet everything to lose, it failed to lay a tackle for ten minutes in an opening quarter against Collingwood which ended with the Magpies five goals up in what for them was a dead rubber. Their end result was the frustration of yet another failure. The stand out on an individual level was second year player, Clayton Oliver’s outstanding form that earned him club champion honours. The newcomers - Lewis, Michael Hibberd and Jake Melksham all contributed to the improved performance over the season which ensured a positive win/loss record for the first time since 2006. Hibberd won All Australian honours and the consistent and dependable Neville Jetta came close to joining him. The controversial decision to name Jack Viney as co-captain with Nathan Jones was a success, the former’s absence late in the season probably ensuring the finals miss.Things were looking positive for the future - particularly the club’s still emerging midfield, the re-signing of Max Gawn, the recruitment of Jake Lever and the sight of a lean, hungry and fit-looking Jesse Hogan at pre season training. However, at year’s end the edge was taken off all of that with the PR disaster surrounding the cancellation of the club’s commando style training camp at the behest of the players and subsequently, allegations that were made against a yet to be identified player of inappropriate sexual behaviour on a post season holiday.The club fielded a team in the inaugural AFLW which finished the season in third place and produced a truly watchable and exciting brand of football that has fans looking forward to the second season, due to start shortly. Names like Daisy Pearce, Karen Paxman, Elise O’Dea are already well entrenched in our football lexicon. Of course, because the competition had no finals other than the grand final, the women finished one off the finals pace - just like the men did later in the year.As we always do at this time of year, we now look forward to the coming season with hope. The difference is that the advances made in 2017 have opened up the opportunity to cross into more exulted company and to play finals football once again.

Marrone has said Jags starters will be playing until the result is beyond doubt. Whatever that means.

Try sighing, I did My resolution on Demonland, to try and not put as many on ignore as I did in 2017, I'll have nothing to read

Melbourne last night. It's better than anything that can be Photoshopped. I'd like to see us use it in our marketing.

It might be a choice between Xmas lunch with Uncle James or 100 100s...

I wish that lightning bolt created the 1.21 GW of electricity needed to take the MCG back to 1964 to remind us what it takes to win a flag.

There's fear on a footy field, unless you're a little abnormal or a liar. Viney instills fear into the opposition due to his strength and ballistic approach to the footy. Viney has already hurt Ablett in a round 1 game. Ablett would be unusual if Viney didn't make him nervous. Ablett is an old man and when you're old in footy terms you like pain and injury even less. Dangerfield is the key. We have a point to prove and will be physically stronger in 2018. We'll be up to our necks in round 1. But either way, it's just one game and 4 points. Injury, as usual, will be key for us in 2018.

Figjam/Flopper/Weirdo.

On the pi$$ & will be ready for 8:25am tomorrow on 7mate... Not confident at all but will be treating it like a playoff game

I get so tired of economists, I really do. Economic statisticians in particular. There are a number of little fluffy statements that should be read as 'please note massive caveat on data and circular interpretation'. For example " While Melbourne did better with its lower picks, those players generally aren’t as important for team performance as players selected with higher picks. " Terrible charts, badly labelled, inconsistent formats being presented as if they are a like for like comparison. Conclusions thrown in as inserted sentences well before the discussion of the actual evidence. This is embarrassing to read. Anyway, to the substance. Richmond's 2005 and 2007 drafts were among the worst of any club, ever. Their 2010 draft was made respectable only by picking up Houli in the pre-season instead of a trade, unless you're a real fan of Reece Conca. 2011 produced only one player, Brandon Ellis. As discussed in a number of other threads, Richmond's premiership hinged on an amazing surge of recruitment in just the last few years, with close to half their premiership team arriving since 2012. Anyway... back to griping about economic statisticians. What the hell is going on with that first chart? Every year only has two data points, except for 2009... oh... oh my. Oh boy oh boy. I have a hunch... let me just check a few things... yep. capslock time PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AT UNIVERSITY OF MELBOURNE HAS INCLUDED ONLY PLAYERS STILL IN THE RICHMOND TEAM FIVE YEARS LATER AS DATA POINTS WHEN ASSESSING DRAFT PERFORMANCE Basically, all failures have been excluded from the sample, in a 'study' that claims to assess success or failure.

This if Richmond win the flag next year I might take them seriously, a good run with injuries anyone can win it. do Richmond win the flag if they have our injuries? No way I doubt they play finals we lost gawn, hogan, viney, Jones for big chunks Richmond Lose riewoldt, rance, Martin and cotchin for as long as we lost our boys absolutely no chance they get anywhere near the top 8

what did he rip? hamstring or shoulder?

We would have had just pick 2, so still would have taken Trengove.

Our coach made his resolution for 2018. Come on Demonlanders, make us laugh for one last time in 2017. What's your resolution on Demonland for 2018? Happy New Year everyone! (Source AFL site) Simon Goodwin (Melbourne) Pour concrete in the players' drink bottles to harden them up. First, they blew their chance to break an 11-year finals drought, and then they wussed out of a pre-season boot camp. 'Blighty' wouldn’t have taken it as well as I have. But times have changed and I consider myself a SNAC (Sensitive New Age Coach). I just hope the boys don't become SNAPs (Sensitive New Age Players) on the field.

Clarry and Petracca in patches have. Others will

ben collins.......never heard of him........but i have now. ......must remember to forget him

Don't worry after we win 20 games with a 150 % we will be feared

You'd know all about that. I've heard it's apparently where your top brain cells reside, Daisy!

If Roos couldn't motivate this bloke to play his best week in week out then what hope does Ken have?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Can't believe the Jags & Panthers are such outsiders, both serious value in the H2H betting

...and may Santa bring us a premiership in 2018. Cheers to all and many thanks to the crew that bring us Demonland.

Our former President would have been 91 today... (Included in this thread because his passing was also discussed here.) December 30, 1926: Former Opposition Leader and Speaker Billy Snedden was born. He lost the 1974 federal election to Gough Whitlam and died of a heart attack at a Sydney hotel in 1987.

If there was an incident but the woman involved doesn't want to pursue it for whatever reason then to me no further comment is the only feasible outcome. Should the club come out and name the player involved in said incident when he could be totally innocent? should they say it's been investigated and handled when maybe there is no conclusion because she doesn't want to speak to the club or AFL?I mean why should she, they are hardly relevant & non biased legal authorities. I know it would be good to have a conclusion, everything nicely wrapped up but sometimes this is not possible. I would be interested to know who leaked the story though....

I think a few people here are remarkably confident that no incident ever happened, and quite possibly that no actual woman ever existed, either.

Word is that if the City of Casey build a grandstand on that southern end (where the wind comes from) Melbourne will play a game for premiership points there in the future

I reckon the supporters are the only ones in limbo. I am sure that the club and the player know exactly what is going on.

As Deemania said above, Troy was a quickly developing player who at the time I thought would definitely make it. Still clearly remember the memorial match at the G. Teams united and the game played accordingly. Just the way Troy would have wanted it.

First, I want to join the chorus of all those wishing fellow Demonlanders a safe and enjoyable festive season, and a prosperous 2018 for our beloved football team. Like many around here, I find it hard to resist the feeling that we are headed for good places in 2018, but I know only too well the bitter disappointments that this team can deliver, year, upon year, upon year. I'm doing my best to temper my excitement with a dash of realism, but it ain't easy! Second, I want to thank the owners and 'managers' of Demonland for taking this wonderful site to new levels in 2017. Outstanding work folks! And a special thanks for the hard yakka and vigillence that has been involved in keeping some of the more difficult recent threads on the straight and narrow. Greatly appreciated! Go Dees!

I assume Ablett wont pretend to have a hammy strain now that hes back at Geelong.

If Viney takes the field in round one , he will be the inspiration he shows leading by example. He is such an awesome character to have around and kills for the club. Go Champ. Watch out Cats !

Looks like a poster for an AC/DC concert. I don't mind the idea, but the talk has to be backed with the walk. I think we have some serious hardnuts in our side... on a par with Northey's 80's / 90's teams, so it'd be good to play on that, but we need to play finals to play that sort of card properly. Right now we are walking the walk in some games, and just talking it in others. Who remembers Carlton's 'They know what we are cooking' promo? They sunk faster than the Titanic that year. I don't want to see us trash talking and then finish nowhere.

I'm sorry IT. I reckon your post belongs in the Yachting section. Cheers old boy.

Ripper photo, ripper idea...ripper year ahead. All fits...

Vineytime posted this after last year's camp. - Salem badly concussed at the commando style camp - Tyson injured his knee quite badly and will miss a large chunk of pre season training - Hibberd injured knee also, not as severe as Tyson. It's little wonder the players had reservations, especially as there were reports their recovery took a number of days post the camp.

Boot camps are useful for SAS type training. They are designed for physical toughness, an attribute football players already have. They are designed not to get the right people, but to eliminate those who aren't physically able to in the situations that the SAS are required to perform. The mental aspect is a bonus....if it ever occurs! There is no correlation between that scenario and a football side. We want ALL players to get through the preparation of pre-season, uninjured and un-broken. Denying sleep and proper eating habits goes against everything that the conditioning and dietary staff are trying to achieve. There are other ways to improve mental toughness.

Agreed. The dynamic of those two together doesn’t really work (not to mention the fact that Mark Allen has always rubbed me the wrong way). Schwartz is at his best when he’s paired with the ‘straight-man’ like Francis Leach or Huddo. That dynamic really worked IMHO, as their respective personalities and skill-sets covered most bases.

When Marc Allen speaks about golf with KB it's compelling listening. He acts normally and is exceptionally insightful. And when he uses wit it's not over the top. With Schwarz he's arguably the most insufferable announcer I've ever heard. The show evolved into the most puerile and juvenile show imaginable. Allen constantly got overly excited by nothing or repeated what Schwarz had said a nanosecond earlier. Schwarz was harmless and likeable, but had little depth.

They were painful, so I'm not surprised. Any word on their replacement?

Mark Allen is a goose. Good riddance ! Shame to lose Theo X though !!

Maybe I will leave out the winning goal bit on reflection. Like you, I do want Jack to do well against us but hope Melbourne can win. I can't say I agree with your views on Port. They will be a very strong team with their latest imports giving them every chance of winning the flag. Three very talented footballers without a doubt. What trading they did compared to our miserable performance. They must have more money than us.