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I'm with SWYL on this Wise. Coaches are supported by a raft of professionals - Physios, Sports Doctors, Dieticians, Psychologists etc etc. I presume decisions like a boot camp are not made on some ad hoc basis but are part of a planned pre season regime. The fact that the players, "just felt the boot camp wasn't worthwhile" isn't good enough for me. They are very well paid employees of a professional organisation. They need to suck it up and do their job. Obviously I make this judgement without being in full possession of all the facts but, on the face of it , it is not a good look for our club.

Signed up our 8 week old boy this morning! Dad got his way naming him Oliver - after Clayton#13

And since no one on this site (to my limited knowledge) is one of the 65, can anyone cast a stone, one way or another? I love banter and diversity of opinion, but to be useful, it has to be founded on fact. No one here has any real idea of the issues. We can speculate and posture personal opinion on who runs the show the players or the FD but there will be no right or wrong in this place. As a newbie on this site, having withdrawn from another, the self serving and highly opinionated views here seem more like school ground antics than a fan based forum. Let's see how this plays out in the real world shall we. I expect Goodwin and co will wrest control pretty quickly, for better or worse, unity or division.

Quit telling people to ‘move on’ Saty, posters are entitled to their own opinion, no matter how much you disagree with it. Personally I enjoy reading the different opinions and view points.

The players had a meeting and decided they will not be training. Ever.

JH is training but is on a modified program (to manage his back). Certainly nothing serious. I gather is just precautionary rather than as a result of any mishap.

We did the boot camp last year, suffered injuries and it clearly didn't improve our mental capacity under pressure. It's a stupid idea and one I'm glad to see we aren't doing.

Said by a poster hiding in anonymity The players are soft? We have posters worried/concerned/upset about what opposition supporters or commentators think now that is soft

I was lucky enough to spend last Christmas with a Dee. He was shattered. More exhausted than he had ever been (and this was 4 days after it). His body was covered in blister ans scars that impacted on the training he was able to do afterwards. He said he hoped he would never have to do it again and he couldn't really see the great advantage it would give the team. This is from a fella that pushes his body to the limit all the time, has been through awful injuries and come back again even stronger. I am prepared to take his word for it that it didn't help his game training in any way, shape or form.

One of my favorite players of the era. Congrats to him and the others to be reciently be awarded life membership. Didn't know that Hoppy, Neitz and Swartz were the last of the under 19s we were able to pick up. Pretty good group of selections in my book. http://m.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-12-14/proud-paul-rewarded-with-key-honour

I don’t want to be all doom and gloom with outlandish statements but having been in the Military, I have seen this exact type of incidents occur. the dynamics of this current football group are ninth balanced and actions taken over the next few months will determine how they gel together. I find group dynamatics especially interesting. In the military the soldiers would rebel against ateam leader (usually an officer) usually when they felt they were doing dumb sh^t or stuffing them around. If decision were changed or events changed it create an elephant in the room regarding who actually ran the team. A similar event would occur later and the team leader who experience the rebelling now attempting the to command at something else. The way the soldiers reacted to his directions would set scene and provide insight to this team’s future. It could mean that everyone forgets about what occurred and everything returns to normal . The most likely outcome is that there is always a later event that brings out the elephant which as lurking in the room out. And how these events are managed provides inidiciations for any problems. the coach will be the most aggreivated as it was his authority that was challenged. I just hope he has some good mentors around the club to enable him to lower the angry with it effect the group. maybe guys like pj or Macca may help not like Mahoney won’t. If he still can bounce things if Roos then that would be a good outcome. Al Clarkton would be anyother people to see for some guidance

Seriously? Honestly SWYL, I've never seen someone make such a mountain out of a mole hill. His strategy has been rebuked? It was a 2 day boot camp. Have they rebelled against the 99% of the other training they do? Have they cracked it over the gameplan? Did they kick up a fuss about what they needed to do before they returned to training, or what they will do over the Xmas break? No, they didn't. They just felt the boot camp wasn't worthwhile, so it was cancelled. I'll say it again, you LOVE this stuff. I bet you sit there and rub your hands together at how hard you can go with it. It's like Xmas has come early for you.

Bored Bored Bored Need to get through stupid cricket and crap tennis before anything gets serious I think I'll focus on me Xmas pud

Hunt missed a year from mid 2014 with a serious back injury. Let's hope it isn't the same/related (if he is injured). On the positive side our club and doctors have successfully treated him and (Hogan) for serious back injuries and know how to look after them. If he is at training this week we know he is ok. Even if he isn't, it may not be serious - just precautionary rest till the new year. Let's wait till we hear something one way or the other.

Well haha yes we sure are arent we! As i mentioned in an earlier post Macca, the last leg of the said quaddie, i only had 1 horse and it was number 13........and i think i posted something like.... that would be right!......then during the running at the top of the straight he slammed into another horse, clearly interfered causing the other horse to miss its stride and of course it ended up running 2nd by a half neck. It looked open and shut that the protest would be upheld and being number 13 i was ready to put the ticket in the bin right then......but no, somehow it was dismissed!?? Then i remembered in some cultures, 13 is considered a lucky number.....on this occasion it sure was. Oh yeah, the quaddie didnt pay much but i collected 54 for my 4 dollar outlay, so i will take that any day of the week.

Spot on Macca in regards to superstitions, I don't mind the occasional soccer multi and I find I have more luck when I decide to sleep and scroll through the scores the following morning compared to staying up and watching games live.

He might do ... its a 16 horse field under WFA conditions over 2500m. But there can only be 6 overseas horses in the race whilst the local horses (10 in all) are voted into the race by the public. Considering how great Bowman's form has been, you'd reckon he'd get a ride in the race ... I watched and had a couple of small outlays in the G1's from Hong Kong last week. Trifecta's only but the pools were quite hefty. Think I went 1st, 2nd & 4th on three occasions! (based on a 2, 5 & 5 combo)

I got notification by snail mail 2 or 3 weeks ago. Included the proxy appointment form.

I wanted to call any one of my sons 'Ronald Dale' but she who must be obeyed let me down on this one.....

Nice one Wadda ... I was out and about for a bit yesterday so didn't see many of the races. I even missed my Ascot race but found out that I'd won when I logged on to my account. I have a habit of winning when I don't watch a race 'live' so I may have to use that method as a default mode again! Us punters are a superstitious lot aren't we?

Well i got the Quaddie with a 4 dollar investment.....so ill take their money.......but strange i got that, but i still managed to screw up the parlays! Crystal Dreamer is a beauty. There was an old surf flick called Crystal Voyager and had some early Pink Floyd music, i used to love it, had the soundtrack for years......think thats why i picked it originally or why it caught my eye....haha. Bad luck on that FF....very very close. Has Bowman got a ride in that Japan race?

now you mention it. i remember that too. i remember also placing it in the circular filing receptacle - lol

Both my missus and I recieved the AGM meeting letter and the proxy voter form in the mail about a month ago. I dont remember getting anything electronic at all though...

Found AGM info on the club website without problem as I do each year. Not quite sure why you're all pulling your hair out when the required information is there for all to see as required.

Nor did I. Nor is there anything on club website advising of AGM Details. (Not sure about twitter or fb). I have officiated at incorporated clubs and my recollection is that there is an ASIC (?) requirement that members be advised in writing of an AGM. Not sure if this applies to AFL clubs tho. Our lack of notification was either someone in the Comms department messed up (big, big time) or the club didn't want many members who might ask tricky questions and forgot to tell us. Whatever the reason, someone in the club needs to be quietly held accountable. And perhaps, someone to revisit the AGM aspect of our Corporate Governance responsibilities. Agree, alarm bells are not ringing but I do hear a jingle or two and they aren't from Santa and his Reindeers!

I saw that Crystal Dreamer won again for you @Wadda We Sing ... any luck with your parlays? As for next week at Ascot (yep, their carnival is still going) the CB Cox Stakes (2100m) is being run ... it's a Group 2 WFA race worth $250,000 and the event is often used as a run-in to the Perth Cup (Jan 1) If I get a chance I'll post up the field with barriers later in the week. There's also a big Group 1 race on next Sunday from Japan (the 'Arima Kinen') ... a top field should be assembled as the race is worth approximately $6miilion. The free-to-air racing channel is probably covering the race.

This is another example of projecting neo-liberal free market ideologies onto a footy environment. There's nothing wrong with players seeking advice from the AFLPA.

Excuse my ignorance, but wasn't the MRP composed of different members during the year. If so, that is the source of the inconsitency (well one source). Three permanent members seems best to me, preferably not ex-players but people who can judge bad behaviour without distortions coming from their own playing days and loyalties. Having ex-players on the MRP is like choosing supreme court judges from Pentridge.

Look forward to the Pies and Cats doing very well in Reportable incidents now.

Get a name at some stage If you can. The kid did a few things that I really liked

I think a lot of people are missing the main point here. I am actually quite happy the camp isn’t happening, i said my bit last year. Sleep deprivation is a crock of sh... and can be very dangerous BUT the main point here is Goodwin and The FD wanted the camp to go ahead, the Head Coach, after our pathetic performance in Round 23 (which it was) obviously is trying to mentally challenge the list. And his authority here has been over ruled This is not good in December... small rumbles can get larger. I fully expect a very tough January and Feb now, otherwise Goody could well become redundant mighty fast.....

Those who are defending this move by the players are part of the root cause of the problems with this club. Happy for this club to continue to be considered the softest club in the competition. Plenty of oppo supporters i know are finding this hilarious...and i would probably just laugh too if i didn't know that this incident is indicative of what this club is about...and during next season when push comes to shove these blokes will once again be shoved (and they will be excused for rolling over no doubt).

Statistics can be very misleading and we all know that in isolation they are often of little value. At the same time they have value, which is why professional scouts across all professional sports place such an emphasis on them and they can be useful in terms of countering any confirmation bias observers might have Lever and Tmac's younger brother make for a fascinating statistical comparison. They are a really good duo to compare given they are almost exactly the same age, were drafted in the same year, almost the same height and weight and of most significance have played very similar roles and positions thus far in their career (meaning apples are not being compared to oranges when for instance comparing the DE of a mid to a player across HB who does a lot of short sideway chips). Now to be clear about how i rate Tmac's younger brother i think he is good player and last year really started to hit his straps in the second half of the year, only his second full year at AFL and he has huge upside. For a young KP he his ticking all the boxes and i expect him to play 200 plus games for the dees. I rate him higher that than Tmac at the same age and think he will end up being a better player, not least because his disposal is so much better. Of course i think Lever is a better player than Tmac's younger brother, he is a star already and is only going to get better. I am over the moon about drafting him. So please don't get me wrong i am not arguing these stats are evidence they are of equal ability because they're not. But nonetheless they are remarkably similar and given how good Lever unarguably is they reflect well on Tmac's younger brother. They will make a formidable defensive combination. Player Statistics Comparison Oscar McDonald Name Jake Lever Melbourne Demons Team Melbourne Demons Defender Position Defender 37 Career Games 56 North Ballarat Rebels Origin Calder Cannons March 18, 1996 Date of Birth March 5, 1996 21yr 8mth Age 21yr 9mth 196cm Height 195cm 97kg Weight 93kg 2014 National Draft Last Drafted In 2014 National Draft Round 3, Pick #53 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #14 Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Adelaide Crows Career Stats for Season Career 37 Games 56 8.7 Kicks Per Game 10.1 7.0 Handballs Per Game 5.3 15.7 Disposals Per Game 15.4 5.0 Marks Per Game 5.5 0 Goals Per Game 0.1 0 Behinds Per Game 0.1 1.6 Tackles Per Game 1.3 0 Hitouts Per Game 0 1.1 Inside 50s Per Game 1.3 0.1 Goal Assists Per Game 0.1 0.6 Frees For Per Game 1.0 0.7 Frees Against Per Game 1.0 5.2 Contested Possessions Per Game 5.6 10.4 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 9.8 12.2 Effective Disposals Per Game 12.1 77.7% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 78.6% 1.8 Clangers Per Game 2.2 0.5 Contested Marks Per Game 0.8 0 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.1 0.4 Clearances Per Game 0.1 2.5 Rebound 50s Per Game 3.1 6.8 One Percenters Per Game 5.4 0 Bounces Per Game 0.2 89.3 Time On Ground % Per Game 85.8 0.1 Centre Clearances Per Game 0 0.3 Stoppage Clearances Per Game 0.1 1.8 Score Involvements Per Game 2.9 213.9 Metres Gained Per Game 242.0 2.5 Turnovers Per Game 2.7 6.3 Intercepts Per Game 7.8 0 Tackles Inside 50 Per Game 0

To anyone at the AGM last night. Was anything mentioned about loss of a major sponser /or any replacement?

Jack Watts would have done the boot camp.

Okay what the hell is all this "Goodwin has lost the players" talk?!?!? What are any of you basing this on??? The players all love and respect the ever living s*** out of him, both as a player and a coach. I laid out the facts of what happened and at the start of the Christmas break this will all be forgotten by the Players and Coaches. You all need to relax guys.

It's been replaced by the full day spa experience at Peninsula Hot Springs with a dry needling option.

I think usually at this time of the year most us are looking forward to and speculating on who might make an early AFL debut or feature at some stage for the MFC in the year ahead. (Not so long ago we would have already slotted half of them in our starting 22 by now). But a function of being an actual decent team with some genuine depth and competition for spots is that the number of 2018 debutantes in the red and blue will likely be diminished, and that we should actually be less hopeful to see them happen. As a bit of a present round-up: King: I seriously had to double-check if his name was Max or Mitch. Seems as if they’re ramping up his training this year and he looks in good shape. But is he Gawn’s direct replacement in the event of an injury now, or, despite Watts’s departure, will we continue to attempt to plug the gap like last year in overlooking Spencer? I think the preference atm would be seeing Pedo go number one in the middle and a rejig up forward toward a smaller make-up. Are we already in some trouble if King enters the frame? McKenna: The forgotten man on the list. Arrived with little fanfare and has barely been heard from since. I’m not even certain what position he in fact plays, but from memory it’s somewhere around half-back, where he’d be an especially long way behind in the push for a spot. I doubt that few of us hold even a vague hope that he’ll bolt out of nowhere and be pushing for a place anytime soon. Johnstone: Assumed to be the direct understudy for Garlett as a mercurial pocket type, but by most Casey reports has been largely underwhelming to date in terms of development, with little impact across the year and not much on display in terms of rare, untapped talent. Looks fit in the training photos, but if Garlett were to go down, I imagine there’s plenty of mediums who would be selected for the small pocket role before him. What has to go wrong before he becomes a realistic chance for debut? Keilty: Seems to have been to have been a consistent improver over the back-half of last year in the seconds, yet, despite I assume a number of us here rooting for him a little extra due to his relative’s (brother's?) personal insights on this forum, when you take an objective step back it’s difficult to see where he might force his way in. Has been shuffled around a bit at Casey, I guess as part of his development, but appears to have settled into a back role - to ultimately end up against some stiff senior competition if not currently offering a stand-out trait. The signs are on the positive side, but again, would we have to be in a fair deal of trouble before he was being considered for debut? Filopovich: I really don’t know much about what’s going on here. A raw project still, and a long long way back I would presume? Then there’s our quartet of draftees: I’m not sure if it’s a remnant of a past MFC-conditioned supporter mentality, as well as the usual hope and hype around draft-time, but all of Spargo, Fritsch, and Baker (and to a slightly lesser extent Petty) feel as if in some way closer to a debut than most of those mentioned above – be it needs-based in the case of some extra dash with Baker, or, in reference to Spargo and Fritsch, that our small-medium brigade up front isn’t as quite as settled and proven as our other lines? Obviously, most of this assessment is based on subjective perception and a very limited range of second-hand sources, so I am curious to hear what others may think? In your opinions, who is likely or at least a chance to make their AFL debuts this year with Melbourne and why?

Not sure about the angst at this point. Haven’t we proved ourselves financially solid in recent past ? Be surprised if PJ didn’t get the job done.

Brayshaw's head has surely been photoshopped on, right?

Maybe a more pertinent question is: "are Melbourne closer to a Flag without Watts?"

I'd be suprised if Johnstone didn't play senior footy next season.

Bit harsh on Johnstone. from the reports ive read his application and team play have been very good for a kid. good tackles numbers and pressure acts which are massive in todays game. agree that he does not seem to have a natural eye for goal but maybe that will come. not a bad idea to try him down back either RJay

No love for Balic Skuit? I think he might be the best of them all.

Spargo will play more senior games in 2018 than what most people think.

I have a good feeling about Spargo. Reading all the draft reports and how he would've gone higher etc etc i can't help but feel like he may get a game early (but i think i'd like to see some of this potential in the pre-season competition/intra-clubs first). Fritsch is the other i could see playing too.

I think he could well end up as the understudy for Jetta...

I don't care, as long as New Balance continues as apparel sponsor I'll be happy. I must have spent about 3 grand on their gear since they came on board.