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People have very short memories. This guy refused to have a meeting with us when we were trying to chase him. So he can get stuffed for all I care. Struggled this year anyway. Body is shot.

All or nothing. The whole point of following the club is the combination of colours, song, ground, heritage, etc. Players come and go, but the other aspects have been fairly constant. I'd rather have nothing than some bastardised version.

The other stat that worries me is that, more often than not, we are shite.

I would.

Merge with Port Adelaide and become Port Melbourne... the added benefit for certain posters on here would be that we finally get Ollie Wines.

Who's to blame for the 'blackest day in Australian sport'? Peter Fitzsimons has nailed it when it comes to responding to the critics of ASADA's investigation:-

After he did his knee on Sunday I was convinced he had just signed a deal to play with us next year.

It simply means that clubs won't let FAs get to a final year of a contract. If they won't extend they get traded . Simple. Its our club, Not the players. Some of these golden boys forget that.

Good luck in your endeavours

Disagree. We dont have talent. But you don't need talent to run, tackle and put pressure on oppornents. Its about intent and we gave up. It was pathetic. the third quarter was a train crash. They didn't try. Watch the replay. Watch what happens when we have the ball. Static. No movement. Nothng to do with talent.

Latest from Gil the Dill Whilst there's nothing officially on the table you'd think this was still a possibility as it's within the code....... Makes you all warm and fuzzy to know the head of the game has a full and complete grasp of all things!!

Would lose interest in watching AFL atleast. I will still love the sport. But no Melbourne, no AFL for me

I would lose all interest in AFL

Yeah, sorry, DC - we had a bad loss on the weekend but things are not as bleak as they were this time 12 months ago, or 18 months ago (pre-Jackson)... In fact, we are in much better shape, both off and on the field. Not having a bar of this. (I am aware it is just a hypothetical)

I doubt Clark would play for another club, here is a bloke who is already doing it tough. He'd cop heat from the public if he played elsewhere and he doesn't need that sh*t. If he wants to just play football with no pressure, have some fun and hang with his mates, he'll be back at MFC... if he even plays again.

Thank god we've got you here to point that out. Doubt it would have occurred to us otherwise.

Nope. Didn't want to come to us back then can get stuffed now. Get your retirement fund elsewherre

No it's not - the bans would be on the players; it's the club that dragged ASADA into court. We shouldn't confuse the issues. The players were almost certainly lied to and manipulated by their revered coach and surely by all the relevant staff at the club. Goodness knows what they have since been told by the club, but their silence suggests it has to have been something quite powerful, and presumably regularly reiterated. The players' position is in many ways the worst of anyone's, in that it is their livelihood and possibly future health at stake, and month follows month with them held silent on the sidelines, mere appendages, collateral to the legal stoush their employer now focuses on. So six months for the player victims has a bit of justice about it I think, so long as they are ultimately able to speak and they accept their fault and show remorse. But the club - that's a different matter. An appropriate sanction on the club for throwing the whole issue into a legal smokescreen eventually has to be worked out as a completely separate matter. Obviously the club has been start-to-finish cynical, devious and dishonest, and - once challenged on this - became destructive and obstructionist, turning the whole thing into a bottomless pit for money leached out of everyone at Essendon's mercy; the Essendon Football Club is now seen with its wrecking ball, rebellious against the very concept of being scrutinised or held accountable for their intention and sustained practice in chemical cheating. Six months for that, I agree, would be a joke. I'm not sure whether Essendon's greater offence would be against ASADA or the AFL - ASADA might ban the club for say a couple of years, despite the upheavals that must cause; but for the AFL, what Essendon has done surely entails the worst disrepute ever. Essendon is mounting a challenge against the legality of the AFL having tried to investigate with those best qualified to do it the rottenness that they Essendon have brought into the league; with Essendon presumably being able next, supposing they win, to attack the sanctions already imposed last year by the AFL; Essendon have effectively stared down the AFL with the Essendon "whatever it takes" mantra, and it is a declaration of war. That is a very different position to the position of their poor first victims, the players. Eventually when the two cases are separated, there must be very different sanctions determined for the two: for insufficient vigilance against a trusted employer on the one hand, and on the other, ongoing, unrepentant, deliberate cheating, and not just trying to cover up their sins but challenging the right of the AFL and ASADA to regulate for a clean sport, dragging down Aussie Rules football before an astonished and watching sport world. Those responsible for all of this should never again be allowed to have control of an AFL license; and how the entire club can be let off when they have endorsed and financed the club's behaviour I don't know. Coach, President, medical staff and any other staff who had any part in it, must all be gone. Maybe the captain too. I think the Essendon members who have not done their due diligence and blown the whistle, have a lot to answer for, too: their position of ignorance and then denial is in many ways similar to that of the players, except that it is continuing while the AFL is being brought into disrepute of enormously damaging proportions. What Essendon has done and defended is a systematic dismantling of one of the very foundations of competitive sport in the 21st Century. How can members of the club not be criticised when they have not demanded this be stopped? Once ASADA and the court cases finish, the AFL is going to have to salvage some credibility from the Essendon affair, and that will have to be expensive.

Just as well it's not his IQ

F*** off GWS and Collingwood.

It was reported on 3AW last night that Roos had a plan for a complete rebuild of the MFC list post season. It was reported that Roos is looking for 5 picks in the top 20 in this years draft and is also looking to bring in 5 mature players. We are likely to get: pick 2, pick 3 (Frawley), a good possibly (that's the clubs opinion after initial discussions with AFL) a PP at either 1, 4 or 20. We will also have 2nd Round pick at ~20. This means we will need to trade for at least 1 probably 2 or 3 picks in the top 20 considering at least one of these picks will be traded for a mature age player. Apparently the MFC is offering as trade bate the following players: Watts Grimes Trengrove Toumpas Apparently Roos is looking to trade out at least 2 of these 4 depending on what is offered. The mature age players will come from a combination of Free Agency, Trades and delisting's (aka Cross). What are supporters views on this? Personally I have full faith in Roos, you have to give away talent to get talent, clearly he is trying to break the poor culture by bringing in new core players. *** Please note this is not from my contacts inside the club, I have no idea if true. This comes from Gerard Healy and others on 3AW last night. However, they were claiming it as a scoop.

I hate fans who bag players at the game. Can't stand it. I didn't boo but have no issue with those who did as it was not about bagging players it was pure angst directed at everything mfc. I was more furious than I ever been, indeed I do believe I was quoted in Sam Edmund's match summary

Getting in before 'old dee', but I sure hope you are right here 'Jack'.

Then that makes you the problem dc - the supporter equivalent of an ebola carrier. Do Melbourne a favour and go support the filth!

If you were a Melbourne player you would be cut to the slow.

LOL, but i think george pell just scored that job

You are assuming we picked Gardiner at 22. And that in this hypothetical scenario another team wouldn't have before us. Obviously you rate Gardiner. And I wouldn't do another 'Tyson trade' if this was 2001 and Pick 2 was either Judd or Ball. I would do another 'Tyson trade' if the circumstances are right to do another. And I hope they are because we need more experienced bodies and minds at this club. Nothing is ever black and white, right or wrong, bad or good - if that can be frustrating to those that want to generalise and make grand assumptions.

I don't think dc likes to be called Shirley.

How the wheel has turned.... This bloke refused our advances several years ago and wouldn't have a bar of us. Now it looks like he would welcome the chance to pull on our jumper. He can get [censored]!

You give journalists too much credit - the formula is years and dollars, and the Compensation committee can change the compensation at their will if they feel it is not enough or too much. So, essentially, rules are so superficial it is as if there are none at all. Just the way the AFL likes it - leaning against a buttress made of wet sand...

I just want to know why we keep drafting timid stick insects and not competitive animals.

This. He [censored] on us last time he was on the market. I say we return the favour.

I think Mark Neeld pointed this out, we drafted the wrong type of players for the way the game is played today. We drafted on a Port Adelaide model from mid 2000's for run and stun type of football, the game is all about contested football, big bodies around the contested footy. We drafted skinny kids that could run and in Gysberts case a skinny kid that couldn't run. The foot skills of the players we drafted would have looked good at junior ranks they would have had time and space because they ran hard at AFL level you don't have this and all our early picks except Watts have or had disposal issues. Funny every one is on Melbourne about Priority picks, Hawthorn received 3 priority picks at the start of the draft giving them 6 players from three drafts that were top 5 picks. Melbourne had 2 since 2000 Sylvia and Scully plus one end of first round. 2008 draft was the worst performance in Draft history, have a look at the players drafted after Strauss and Blease

I'm flying out this morning. I feel like it is the definition of stupidity.

Entirely indistinguishable from Mark Neeld's list rebuild plan. Gee, I'm saying some mean things lately. Aaaanyway, a 3AW rumour isn't really any better than an online forum rumour, when in comes to the details, so I'm not really going to let this one rattle around too much in my head. Though I am a little concerned that Roos has decided that an oversupply of the name Jack is a key weakness at the club.

of course the minute the players accept the bans then Hird and Co are guilty as hell fun and games

I agree, I would be seriously [censored] off if Mitch went to another club, we have done a lot for him in a very difficult time and make no mistake Mitch would have made a difference to our on field performance this year, I reckon with Mitch we could have 7-8 wins

Fitzy resembles that when you're straight.

john ralph....pfffft.....which direction is the wind blowing today no pulitzer prizes on his horizon

I can hardly wait. I'll be so high on post operation drugs I'll probably think they are all magical uncoordinated giraffes.

It's attitudes like this that makes our club a laughing stock. Maybe our problem is we aren't more like Collingwood, who demand effort and passion, year in and year out. They don't look for weak excuses and show some sort of pride for the club, jumper and their members. They routinely play finals and constantly look the improve their chances of winning both on and off the ground. Currently I hate them because they do most things well and we are at the opposite end of the scale. I'm mad as hell and I can't take it anymore, and if booing adequately expresses these feelings to those who are in charge of the direction of this club, and as a result something changes for the better, then I just wish we had of started booing several seasons ago. The club as a whole needs to start understanding that the patience line is wearing thin when performances that are sub standard are so regular. We as supporters deserve better and need to demand better, if this is conveyed through booing these sub standard performances so be it.

The problem with this is that Jack Watts isn't a forward target. The Dogs would laugh in our face with this offer, even with Pick 21 thrown in. Their fans would riot at this deal.

Interesting GT. I said to my seven year old that we should leave at three quarter time but she wanted to stay to the bitter end. To be honest, i was numb and could not believe how we had slipped back after finally showing signs of improvement earlier in the year. I also told her I was sorry how poor we were. She said "they will get better Dad I know it". I wish I shared her optimism...

Good to see you can all select a team better than the coaching panel, what in the hell would he know anyway.

Personally think that Laverde is the classy skilled player Roos is looking for in the draft. i rate him in the top 5.

Or when we handball to a team mate under pressure. I swear I've seen our guys handball to players who are already in the process of being tackled.

when he's finished that i've got some water he can turn into wine and a couple of fish and a loaf of bread i need "fixed" so i can feed all the free-loaders for xmas lunch

On Saturday managed to clear some things and went to the Perth vs East Perth game. The main draft prospect on show was Clem Smith but I have kept an eye on Thomas SHANAHAN since last year and he made his senior debut for East Perth. Both boys were impressive but for different reasons. The game was very physical and there was a large amount of late hits and a fair degree of spite. Clem Smith was very impressive in a severly undermanned side and out of character for him he didn't get drawn into the spite and concetrated on going hard at the ball when the opportunity arose. He was very smooth with the ball in hand and seemed oblivious to pressure, not that he lacked awareness it just did not cause him to get rid of the ball at all costs and cause a turnover. The composure and I would describe it as elite disposal was very much a highlight on a bleak day for the Perth Demons Shanahan came off the bench halfway through the first quarter and for the first few minutes I would say his nerves and enthusiasm had him making several long runs to space or a contest in his attempts to get involved in the action early. As he became acustomed to the tempo he started to read the play much better and after about 10 minutes with Perth attempting to hold possession across half back, Shanahan backed himself left his man and intercepted the defender awaiting a pass on Half back flank, he played on running toward goal and as the defender came to him, I expected him to handball over the top to the forward heading towards the goal square but he calmly slotted from 25m out with his first kick. Shanahan spent the majority of the game at HFF but had stints in the middle and continued to find his own ball. My only mark against him during the game was a willingness to allow the senior players to much respect. This is not a bad thing and showed he was not just looking on building up impressive stats. On several occassions he was the first tackler when senior team mates would come in over the top and once the free was awarded he would allow the senior player to pick up the ball and take the kick. He ended the game with a disposal count which would have been in the high teens and two goals, which could have been at least two more. I saw two direct goals when he handed off to a senior player demanding the ball when he could have easily run on and kicked his own but this will come. Shanahan and Smith went head to head for a short period and Smith tried to unsettle him with some hard body work but he was unfazed and just got on with his game. He probably done enough to hold his place but a lot depends on what the Meth Coast want done with their players. Will be very interested to see if he plays finals how he deals with the lift in intensity but on what I have seen with him Colts to Reserves was an easy transition and he will be right up there in the WAFL ressies B&F and he did not look out of place in his first outing Smith - One of the best displays I have seen from him, a recruiter said to me once, you learn a lot about a player in a weaker team when they are being soundly beaten. As I said above Smith was composed, ball use was elite, all decisions made were good, plenty of 1% efforts, kept his feet in traffic and read the play well. Could have easily thrown the towel in and got involved in the spite but just got on with his own game, if he keeps that up will go in the Top 25

this is what's really hard ta the moment. My 8 year old daughter is struggling to stay interested in the footy while the demons are so bad, that's ok, I'm a bit the same, but the one thing she loves is Jack Watts', if he went, I think she would lose all interest in footy. Its not a reason to keep him, but it does hit home that Footy can still be emotional, and personal. I Love Jack, i know he is great around the club. I loved that he signed on when he had every right to leave after his treatment. I'm really passionate about this, i want Jack to stay and i want him to contribute to our rise. I know most fans are fed up with him and his non competitiveness. I love when he has the ball in his hands, more than not he sets us up, does not waste it. Needs to be stronger, needs to be more urgent. Im in the minority i know. But im loyal, i love him, he is a great bloke and i want him to be a demon for life and a good one at that.