POSTGAME: SF vs Carlton

[Diamond Tim 291]

15 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Bad omens everywhere

And then we have a welcome to country recognising 65,000 indigenous ownership before the National anthem singing , we are young and free..

"We are one and free........"

[layzie 28,930]

9 minutes ago, Swooper1987 said:

It was poor.  We basically conceded any opportunity for a clearance goal inside 50.  Surely a better strategy would've been for Gawn to contest at least some of those and for McDonald or Smith to drop back.  

To rob us of having Trac at the stoppage and a chance to generate something was just silly. 

[Earl Hood 5,789]

52 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

A big worry going forward is if Gawn can’t grab it from the middle he’s basically a traffic cone in their.

Clarry lost his chemistry with the other mids and was rusty. 

Whoever the back up ruck next year is needs to do more centre bounces for Max before pushing forward.

And we need pace in there, have to commit to Pickett. I’d love to see Chandler who’s underrated at stoppages. And some fresh talent. 

And we saw Bedford leave due to his limited opportunities with us and now he has slotted nicely into the GWS mid/forward mix. Rivers, Pickett, Sparrow needed to be run a lot more through the middle all year. The old guard in at centre bounces last night just could not get their hands on a tap down, quite extraordinary. 

[piddz 115]

Cannot for the life me understand why TMac wasn't subbed for Schache in the last or potentially earlier.

Not that I think Schache is AFL standard, but a younger/fresher/more able-bodied player would have been some sort of improvement to the witches hat that was Tmac...

Could it have made a 2 point diff- who knows. Chances are Schache wouldn't have converted even if he got any looks at it like the rest of his mates. 

[layzie 28,930]

2 minutes ago, piddz said:

Cannot for the life me understand why TMac wasn't subbed for Schache in the last or potentially earlier.

Not that I think Schache is AFL standard, but a younger/fresher/more able-bodied player would have been some sort of improvement to the witches hat that was Tmac...

Could it have made a 2 point diff- who knows. Chances are Schache wouldn't have converted even if he got any looks at it like the rest of his mates. 

It's like the square root of a million, no-one will ever know..

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,237]

19 minutes ago, piddz said:

Cannot for the life me understand why TMac wasn't subbed for Schache in the last or potentially earlier.

Not that I think Schache is AFL standard, but a younger/fresher/more able-bodied player would have been some sort of improvement to the witches hat that was Tmac...

Could it have made a 2 point diff- who knows. Chances are Schache wouldn't have converted even if he got any looks at it like the rest of his mates. 

Agreed.

I cannot fathom why a team would not use their sub in a high stakes game like last night.

We automatically conceded a competitive advantage by Carlton having a fresh Ollie Hollands run around in the last quarter.

[monoccular 16,096]

13 hours ago, Billy said:

Club should be ashamed of themselves the way they treated Hibberd, heart & soul player & they played Shcache, the softest sub ever

Do you actually KNOW if Hibberd was in physical shape to play last night?  He has been really struggling with his Achilles.

13 hours ago, rufus said:

We need to worry about winning a single final...not about winning it all. On the evidence you've seen, what makes you think there's any chance whatsoever that we could win 3 finals in front of big crowds at the MCG? There's literally no chance with this group, who have proven to be massive chokers.

We're going to need to reload and hope that the next generation that come through have some bottle.

And hopefully we will have Petty and a more mature and experienced JVR in our forward line, with Joel Smith showing major progress as a hybrid forward last night, four the first time.  Fritta has had a long layoff with a foot problem, and I would be surprised were he 100% last week or last night.  The foot is a fairly important part of playing football.

 

13 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Our ruck and only key forward (and best goal kicker) were likely to fall apart at any given moment.

Hard to blame them for keeping tall insurance 

Sure but by ¾ time TMc was looking done and Schache could hardly have contributed less than Tom.  That I thing was a huge missed opportunity

13 hours ago, In Gawn we Trust said:

Gutless.

Umpiring was pathetic but still no excuse for a team that looked flat out scared on the big stage. 

Credit to Carlton for taking advantage of their opportunities

Do you sincerely believe that our players are gutless?   I would be surprised if our "pressure ratings" were not very high through most of the game.   Our conversion, once again, was our downfall.

[DeeSpencer 23,180]

13 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

And we saw Bedford leave due to his limited opportunities with us and now he has slotted nicely into the GWS mid/forward mix. Rivers, Pickett, Sparrow needed to be run a lot more through the middle all year. The old guard in at centre bounces last night just could not get their hands on a tap down, quite extraordinary. 

Not sure they correlate. Bedford was flighty at the contest and butchered it. He needed more time developing before a chance came. Not a different position.

If Rivers runs like a mid and we have half backs he’ll play mid, but I suspect he’s actually a half back.

Sparrow might’ve got too much midfield time. Not idea what happened with Kosi mid year, maybe off field stuff, but he bounced back well. Can’t wait to see him in rounds 2-3 next year.

The biggest issue is how half forward is nearly purely a defensive spot for us because we don’t use it fast enough to get them in space.

Half back and midfield bounce opens attacking space for the half forwards. 

We could have Tracc, Fritsch, Pickett and Petty across half forward next year, one of the most dynamic half forward lines in the comp and the plan all summer should be send it to them. 

[DeeSpencer 23,180]

1 minute ago, monoccular said:

Sure but by ¾ time TMc was looking done and Schache could hardly have contributed less than Tom.  That I thing was a huge missed opportunity

Tom started the last quarter on the pine, played 5 minutes in the ruck during which he was fine, then one quick stint forward before back to the pine. 

The opportunity was to go small up forward and we stuck with that.

Schache on would’ve meant one of Smith or Fritsch comes off or we go taller and lose defensive pressure and shape.

Should’ve they have picked Grundy over Tom or as sub? Maybe, because you’d trust him to ruck for 5 minutes a quarter better than Tom, but they had no faith in Grundy up forward. 

Should they have gone with a small sub? Hibbo, Laurie or Woey. Again, maybe. But Hibbo isn’t helping our backline coming on fresh and is no use if we have an early injury to a non defender. Laurie clearly no use for an early injury. They went the tall as sub because that was the most use if we copped an early injury. 

After last week it was perfectly understandable why they chose the sub for insurance rather than a last quarter impact. And the only player they could’ve subbed off was T Mc who they stuck with for 2 short stints.

[John Crow Batty 8,257]

3 hours ago, YearOfTheDees said:

I believe our game plan keeps other teams in the game. 

Good point, we play a defence based passive aggressive game which relies on beating the other teams own game. Problem it gives them the opportunity to play the way they want, gives them confidence and that evens things up. Thus losing 7 games by under 10 points has turned our games into a coin flip. And again losing centre clearances badly just lets the opposition seize the initiative when our defence is most vulnerable. I would say this aspect of our game is more [censored] up than our forward game. There are 4 or perhaps 5 A graders that rotate through the midfield who do bugger all where it counts.

[Nicko 1,238]

Needless to say we missed Gus last night …. 😰

[BDA 20,171]

Thought I should add I had no problems with the Carlton supporters around me at the game or on the train home. 

[greenwaves 242]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

If Rivers runs like a mid and we have half backs he’ll play mid

Does he have the tank to play midfield?

[greenwaves 242]

2 hours ago, layzie said:

It's like the square root of a million, no-one will ever know..

It's one thousand

[DeeSpencer 23,180]

Just now, greenwaves said:

Does he have the tank to play midfield?

My understanding is he’s made improvements but isn’t there yet, I don’t think he’ll ever have the tank for a wingman, could have the tank for a mid who rests forward. Or a back who takes on ball spurts.

I just think he’s very valuable down back and the rush to get him in to the middle is a bit misconceived.

But it also depends on who we draft this year, if we take a mid or a forward mid who’s somewhat ready to play then keep Riv back.

If we go tall, a back or a small forward we might be looking at Riv in to the midfield mix sooner

[Dannyz 2,317]

How did the powers at the club ever think that Chandler would become a better play than Bedford? I don't mind Chandler but Bedford's speed around the ball is elite. He will go to another level with GWS next season. It's a huge loss and one that we could of easily avoided. 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,484]

13 hours ago, layzie said:

That's exactly what I was saying before about going to the footy week in week out, enjoying some wins etc but really it's not too far fetched to feel like it was all for nothing in the end. After all, what are we playing this competition for?

Season squandered, 4 finals at the G lost. Umpiring and injuries not great but there comes a time when the excuses need to stop.

I feel exactly the same way as you mate, absolutely gutted. This team is having a laugh losing 4 finals in a row at the G, biggest case of team yios since North in the 98 GF but at least that was only one game.

[DubDee 20,715]

3 minutes ago, Dannyz said:

How did the powers at the club ever think that Chandler would become a better play than Bedford? I don't mind Chandler but Bedford's speed around the ball is elite. He will go to another level with GWS next season. It's a huge loss and one that we could have easily avoided. 

agree he looks better than we thought 

but i reckon people are being harsh on Chandler in his first full season

Chandler 24 goals. Ave touches 12

Bedford 13 goals Ave touches 13

obviously this is a simplistic look at two stats but relevant imo. Bedford has him covered for speed and pressure but Chandler has a tank and is a good kick usually

[Dr. Gonzo 22,484]

13 hours ago, Gunna’s said:

I’d love to see Naughton in our jumper next year. Not the best kick but suits or dump kick in style as he contests hard. 
 

Naughton, JVR, smith, Pickett, ANB and chandler/spargo/anyone else who pinch hits (trac, Petty or resting ruck)

That should scare and stretch defenses.  

Naughton would not help out goalkicking woes

[Brizzy Dee 7]

Inaccurate kicking for goal is what let us down. I thought the team played well, tough game, depth of skills and players was on show but goal kicking must improve. 
Feeling so flat today. ❤️💙❤️💙

[Dannyz 2,317]

5 minutes ago, DubDee said:

agree he looks better than we thought 

but i reckon people are being harsh on Chandler in his first full season

Chandler 24 goals. Ave touches 12

Bedford 13 goals Ave touches 13

obviously this is a simplistic look at two stats but relevant imo. Bedford has him covered for speed and pressure but Chandler has a tank and is a good kick usually

Yeah I agree and I think Chandler will be a solid player but Bedford has some really elite tricks. I love watching him play. Hopefully he kills it tonight.

[Mel Bourne 3,672]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Naughton would not help out goalkicking woes

Have never been overly-impressed by him, but he is only 23. Best possibly yet to come. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Mel Bourne

[Garbo 1,330]

29 minutes ago, Dannyz said:

How did the powers at the club ever think that Chandler would become a better play than Bedford? I don't mind Chandler but Bedford's speed around the ball is elite. He will go to another level with GWS next season. It's a huge loss and one that we could have easily avoided. 

They didn’t neither was able to lock a spot in the 22, Bedford was behind Pickett and. Spargo. Chandler was behind Bedford. The only time Bedford got a good run was when Pickett was out. He was to good for VFL and we had no spot for him

Edited September 16, 2023 by Garbo

[Jaded No More 58,070]

7 hours ago, Great Northern Summer said:

Goodwin’s explanation was they wanted the “bigger body out there”. Does Goodwin realise the “bigger body” didn’t get a touch in the final quarter?

If that isn’t the biggest indictment on Schache being soft, given he’s bigger than Tmac, I don’t know what is. 

[Winners at last 4,742]

I was actually more upset after the filth match. 

However you dress it up, the team choked. 

Not much consolation, but I put $100 on the filth, and $100 on Carlton. 

At least I've seen my team win a flag. Which I never expected would happen.

Tis a lovely day ... I've been for a nice bikeride. Longer one scheduled for tomorrow.