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POSTGAME: SF vs Carlton


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4 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

Feel angry and disillusioned because we lost, not because we weren’t good enough but because of ill discipline, especially from Pickett and JVR and poor selection - Laurie as sub last week and keeping TMac on too long this week. Spargo showed why he is important as a good decision maker and needs to be played. Our back 6 were superb and must be filthy with the forwards. 

Top post. We cost ourselves despite being the better team. The decision to leave Tom McDonald on should attract heavy criticism. It was completely insane to leave him on the ground. 

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1 minute ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Top post. We cost ourselves despite being the better team. The decision to leave Tom McDonald on should attract heavy criticism. It was completely insane to leave him on the ground. 

Goodwin’s explanation was they wanted the “bigger body out there”. Does Goodwin realise the “bigger body” didn’t get a touch in the final quarter?

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26 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

Langdon in his first two seasons struck the perfect blend between hard-nut and athlete that runs lanes and puts his body on the line. The last two seasons however, it seems he's strayed too far in the direction of lane running athletics. Only there to fill a strategic purpose, not allowed much 'space' to play on instinct, and kept out of the action too much to gain any kind of confidence to impact a 'match' with high disposals and metres gained.

Hasn't been the same since Maynard cleaned him up in the Duck/Dinner game.

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5 hours ago, Great Northern Summer said:

Like a lot of posters, for some reason, last week's loss felt more gut wrenching than tonight. 

We owned Collingwood after 1/4 time. The path was clear for us - we win that - we get a home Preliminary Final against an interstate team, leading to a likely Grand Final appearance. That loss hurt more than any loss I can remember, perhaps since the 2002 Semi Final (which was one that got away).

Unfortunately, tonight was predictable. Too predictable. Scores were almost level at 1/2 time, yet we totally owned the game in the 2nd half. The fact we could never get more than a goal ahead despite controlling general play almost entirely against a side that stopped running (for the most part) was the problem. Unlike last week where we couldn't get space in our forward 50, this week we could, mainly because the game wasn't played entirely in our forward half. On a dry night, we just botched chance after chance. To kick 4-5 behinds in a row late in the last 1/4, when most of those shots were getable, was nothing others than disgraceful. That was on top of all of our other missed set shots, when Carlton scored most of theirs. To have our captain miss two sitters and not sheppard the ball through when Oliver kicked at goal late - just mind boggling. To have zero composure in the last two minutes, despite all of our efforts to ice the game, you honestly couldn't make this up.

When the dust settles, we will realise our game does stack up and tonight's loss had nothing to do with poor coaching (albeit it was strange TMac wasn't subbed off for Schache). If we won last week or this week, it wouldn't be questioned. I, like everyone else here, get a little sick of references to 'expected score' and 'key stats and takeaways' after losses; however, they are accurate references. Irrelevant to progress and winning finals, but they do show that we dominated two high pressure finals in front of big crowd. It all came down to goal kicking, which frankly is purely psychological and a little bit of luck (hitting the post regularly is just that). I've just never seen a team choke as badly in front of goal in consecutive big games - I remember North in the '98 GF, Essendon in the '99 PF and Geelong in the '08 GF as other bad examples, which were costly (probably costing all premierships), but these instances didn't happen 'twice in a row'. 

The old adage that the best teams have the best 'worst 6' in their team out of all contenders, in my view, isn't quite accurate. It's more about your top 6-8 players. They need to be stand outs. The rest are role players. We will see some turnover of our role players. We do need more precision and execution from our top line players. Two of our top 6-8 are arguably Lever and Viney, and they arguably cost us the game at the very end with poor decisions and execution. These blokes are on big coin and have leadership/responsibility, they need to accept that, embrace it, and stand up when it counts. Unfortunately my mind goes back to Lever late against the Lions last year being pinged for holding the ball, and his retaliation, when the game was on the line. He needs to do better.

Last year, we simply couldn't run out games. We weren't fit enough. In almost all of our losses in the back half of the season, we were ahead at half time and progressively slowed. We started games off with a bang and relied on getting big leads and hanging on to win. In truth, there wasn't much difference between the Lions game in the last H&A round and the semi final - in the last H&A game, we converted just about every opportunity and got a big enough lead to knock the Lions out; in the semi final, our kicking at goal early was horrible, which meant our lead not enough to stop the eventual fade out (or take over). In hindsight, our finals bomb out was predictable, especially given we were pretty banged up. Was it a Premiership hangover? Were players unable to complete full pre-seasons? It's irrelevant because we unpacked that this time last year. This year was so much worse, because we were arguably the fittest side in it, the side that could run games out better than anyone else. Yes, we had a few players out, but nothing out of the ordinary, and not one of our AAA players (accepting Petty is very important for structure and Brayshaw's last two months have been sensational). This is the year that got away. Purely because of composure kicking at goal and smartness on the ground when it mattered. It hurts.

Brilliant post mate. It honestly read like something I would write.

We lost these games, purely and simply. We can talk about expected score and chances missed all we want, it's the definition of losers pleasing themselves. It's a matter of time before someone mentions that we only lost by 7 and 2 and uses it as some kind of crutch to make themselves feel better and pot all the other posters who dare to be critical.

I'm just defeated today, very much defeated. I don't know what you can do about kicking at goal in big games and it looks like they don't either. 

 

Edited by layzie
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Just now, Great Northern Summer said:

Goodwin’s explanation was they wanted the “bigger body out there”. Does Goodwin realise the “bigger body” didn’t get a touch in the final quarter?

Bigger body runs around like a headless chook. He has no strength and was easily moved aside by his opponent all bloody night. It was infuriating! He also doesn’t offer leads. What on earth was his role? And to give away 50 at a crucial stage. That’s the moment I would have subbed him to be honest. 

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5 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

It’s pathetic. I’m not have a crack at our mob but I was so disappointed the sheer difference in support. What is it that makes us have this little support? 

Performances like last night.
Embarrassing stuff.

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8 hours ago, Antioch said:

There was a guy with a mop and bucket in the centre square at 3/4 time mopping with water and whatever else in the water. Then two of our players slipped over where he’d been mopping!

I saw that too and took a video. I saw at least two occasions when Melbourne players slipped over at crucial times near the boundary. Mopping the ground certainly didn't help! Why was this done? Regardless, MFC needs better boot studs... sure

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8 minutes ago, Great Northern Summer said:

Doubt he would have directly (he wants to be paid), but I have no doubt we would have indirectly through body language, etc.

As I’ve said before, something just doesn’t add up here. The combo didn’t work after a dozen games and it was thrown in the bin, remembering a number of those games were played in the wet, which was always going to negate the benefit of two rucks together. To simply be cut adrift where it didn’t even appear he was really in the frame for selection just indicates something else was at play (ie maybe a fall out or personality clash with someone important within the club). Could be wrong. I’m sure we will find out one day, either when he departs in a few months, or when his career is over and he tells all.

That's what I think too. We hear of a so-called "professional attitude" in regards to modern footy and player movement and exploring options, but this non-selection stinks of a personality clash and of a clouding of judgement over adequate team selection. Who's at fault, I dont know. But I think Goodwin deep down is a very passionate character whose opinion might've held a lot of sway over others, and - well personally I don't know Grundy well enough, but its totally plausible that he too through body language and management discussions, put himself completely on the outer after being told to work on his forward craft.

Just thought both parties would be big enough to step up and make it work for two finals. 

But we're talking footy clubs, full of players and ex-players predominantly made up of 20-50 year olds - not exactly the most mature workplaces.

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1 minute ago, Lou C. Fur said:

I saw that too and took a video. I saw at least two occasions when Melbourne players slipped over at crucial times near the boundary. Mopping the ground certainly didn't help! Why was this done? Regardless, MFC needs better boot studs... sure

Viney and Langdon must wear the same boots. Constantly slipping over 

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3 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Great post overall DD, but this is the part that really got me.  I didn't think Hunt was a complete loss in 2022 and if you look at it, he was a key component why we beat Carlton in our second last H&A last year.  Still for our list profile his age wasn't something that went in his favour, so can understand why we let him go (I'd still rather have kept him in a way), similarly Baker.

But Bedford always looked like being a quality player and like you I don't feel like we fought hard enough to keep him and got sweet FA in terms of trade compensation for him too.  When Geelong had their period of sucess 2007 onwards, they created a culture of guys that were willing to hang around on less money and/or more limited oppertunity, in order to be part of a great side and this is something I don't think we've emulated as well as we could have.

We have that culture. It's sitting in our aflw team.

There's something nqr with the blokes

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16 minutes ago, dino rover said:

I thought Kozzies indiscipline was disgraceful 

for all his brilliance his brainfarts cause me to question his importance 

he certainly didnt perform in 23 like in 21 and the kozzie midfield experiment might need reconsideration 

Kicked 2 goals, 11 score involvements 3 goal assists. FMD everyone on here pre-game saying we want them to breathe fire and hit them hard and we need to smash them, Koz ruffles a few feathers and everyone sooks about it.

McGovern flopped for the reversed free (rarely gets paid, surprise surprise they pull it out for the Blues). Flopped again in the 3rd when Koz massaged his ear and spent 5 minutes trying to sell it walking around holding his neck Iike he’d been in a car accident. Weak as [censored].

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Good analysis of what went wrong….

https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/09/16/finals-fix-how-melbourne-killed-their-season-with-the-butcher-job-to-end-all-butcher-jobs/

Edited by The heart beats true
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9 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Top post. We cost ourselves despite being the better team. The decision to leave Tom McDonald on should attract heavy criticism. It was completely insane to leave him on the ground. 

Should never played in the first place. Not playing Grundy is a prime example of Goodwins stubbornness, if not spitefulness. He would have contributed much more than TMac, who surely is finished.

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8 minutes ago, layzie said:

Brilliant post mate. It honestly read like something I would write.

We lost these games, purely and simply. We can talk about expected score and chances missed all we want, it's the definition of losers pleasing themselves. It's a matter of time before someone mentions that we only lost by 7 and 2 and uses it as some kind of crutch to make themselves feel better and pot all the other posters who dare to be critical.

I'm just defeated today, very much defeated. I don't know what you can do about kicking at goal in big games and it looks like they don't either. 

 

Stop sniffing your own farts layzie!

Although it was a brilliant post! :laugh:

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1 minute ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Viney and Langdon must wear the same boots. Constantly slipping over 

It's not just them. There are many others who slip over. Been happening for a long time and kills good passages of play and goals! Better boot studs are just one of the priorities that MUST be demanded when this year is reviewed. 

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24 minutes ago, Great Northern Summer said:

Goodwin’s explanation was they wanted the “bigger body out there”. Does Goodwin realise the “bigger body” didn’t get a touch in the final quarter?

TMac wasn't able to jump off the ground. The most ineffectual game I've ever seen from a KPF. Zero influence. 

Edited by BDA
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16 minutes ago, layzie said:

Brilliant post mate. It honestly read like something I would write.

We lost these games, purely and simply. We can talk about expected score and chances missed all we want, it's the definition of losers pleasing themselves. It's a matter of time before someone mentions that we only lost by 7 and 2 and uses it as some kind of crutch to make themselves feel better and pot all the other posters who dare to be critical.

I'm just defeated today, very much defeated. I don't know what you can do about kicking at goal in big games and it looks like they don't either. 

 

Our record this year reads 16W and 9L. Froward injuries have been difficult to deal with year but we are not as good as we think we are. Our record says so.

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8 minutes ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Kicked 2 goals, 11 score involvements 3 goal assists. FMD everyone on here pre-game saying we want them to breathe fire and hit them hard and we need to smash them, Koz ruffles a few feathers and everyone sooks about it.

McGovern flopped for the reversed free (rarely gets paid, surprise surprise they pull it out for the Blues). Flopped again in the 3rd when Koz massaged his ear and spent 5 minutes trying to sell it walking around holding his neck Iike he’d been in a car accident. Weak as [censored].

However soft the free kicks were, they were there and the umpires just love paying them. It’s all very well playing on the edge but you have to know where the edge is, and Kozzie doesn’t. The trouble is that he is a repeat offender and doesn’t seem to learn or care, maybe. His indiscretions undid a lot of his good work and was a big contributor to our loss.

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15 minutes ago, Brownie said:

We have that culture. It's sitting in our aflw team.

There's something nqr with the blokes

The boys are weighed down. Burdened. 

The girls play with freedom and verve.

The contrast is striking. 

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Just now, chook fowler said:

However soft the free kicks were, they were there and the umpires just love paying them. It’s all very well playing on the edge but you have to know where the edge is, and Kozzie doesn’t. The trouble is that he is a repeat offender and doesn’t seem to learn or care, maybe. His indiscretions undid a lot of his good work and was a big contributor to our loss.

Rubbish. Did Cripps get the free reversed when he was chocking Salem on the ground? No. Plenty of jumper punches week in week out don’t get paid but they pulled it out tonight. You’re anti-Koz, that’s fine. No one else got anywhere near the line, timid. 

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16 minutes ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Kicked 2 goals, 11 score involvements 3 goal assists. FMD everyone on here pre-game saying we want them to breathe fire and hit them hard and we need to smash them, Koz ruffles a few feathers and everyone sooks about it.

McGovern flopped for the reversed free (rarely gets paid, surprise surprise they pull it out for the Blues). Flopped again in the 3rd when Koz massaged his ear and spent 5 minutes trying to sell it walking around holding his neck Iike he’d been in a car accident. Weak as [censored].

Kozzy does need to learn how to control his aggression.

He is young so expected, but one of the senior players and coaches need to mentor him.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Kozzy does need to learn how to control his aggression.

He is young so expected, but one of the senior players and coaches need to mentor him.

 

 

I’d prefer if he mentored the senior players and coaches to be honest. Rolling over and asking for a belly rub doesn’t win finals. 

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21 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

That's the match review right there.  What  a great summary of the total disaster that unfolded.

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