TRAINING: Friday 28th January 2022

[dazzledavey36 48,711]

3 hours ago, willmoy said:

From what i remember Mick came from O &M League and played with a good friend of mine in his early days.

Started early days at Tarrawingee and then Wangaratta Rovers. Pretty sure he finished off his footy playing days at Tarra.

[Damo 2,988]

So am I right in thinking the only AFL Demons outdoor training being advertised is:

• At Casey Fields
• Closed to public
• and only Fridays?

[picket fence 15,104]

2 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

@picket fencewould have the best idea, but Friday seems to be common.

Training for the Mens team seems to be Mondays Wednesday and Fridays from 9.00 AM CASEY FIELDS

[tiers 2,761]

Would ordinarily attend but Casey is too far for a 9.00 am start.

In any event, Picket Fence's reports and commentary are valuable alternatives. I look forward to them.

 

[Its Time for Another 4,052]

On 1/29/2022 at 12:15 PM, adonski said:

Medical room

A fully fit list kickstarted Melbourne's journey to the premiership last pre-season and a similar situation is unfolding this summer.

As usual another journo who hasn't done their homework. Last pre season Weed was heading for surgery on both hips and BB was on a severely modified program still overcoming the knee surgery before coming to us. BB then had further knee surgery. So the players last pre season who were expected to be our two key forwards basically missed the whole pre season. From memory Clarry had further shoulder surgery and had a modified program for some time. There was quite a list of players in rehab at various stages last pre season. 

We are in way better shape this pre season. Even Tommo seems to be recovered enough from his ACL to be in full training and is expected to be available Rd 1. 

[Its Time for Another 4,052]

On 1/29/2022 at 3:07 PM, loges said:

I don't think he has the competitive mindset to succeed at this level. Would love to be proven wrong but I'm not counting on it.

 

On 1/29/2022 at 4:47 PM, hemingway said:

For Weed to get a game he will have to rely on injuries and outstanding and consistent form for Casey. Even then he may get an occasional game but unless there is dramatic change I just can’t see him cementing a place in the 22. 

 

On 1/29/2022 at 10:27 PM, CYB said:

With the many other options we have i think the expectation of having him in the starting 22 will be put to bed (if it hasn’t been already). If he matures and has a break out year then great for us and great for him, but we should look to developing Van Rooyan as our future CHF, FF ahead of Weeds from this point forward.

Cold hard logic based on post 2018 performances no doubt justifies the pessimism about Weid's prospects. I remain a bit more optimistic based on the fact he has already shown in games he has all the skill, physique and footy smarts to compete with the best.

I maintain the hope that his problem remains above the shoulders. Most of his preseasons have been cruelled by injuries and it seems to be extremely hard to build a tank and therefore be competitive and confident if you've missed big chunks and are starting with a low base of confidence. I'm hoping with a full pre season we will see the best competitive beast version knocking down the door for best 22. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Its Time for Back to Back

[mo64 5,209]

8 minutes ago, Its Time for Back to Back said:

 

 

Cold hard logic based on post 2018 performances no doubt justifies the pessimism about Weid's prospects. I remain a bit more optimistic based on the fact he has already shown in games he has all the skill, physique and footy smarts to compete with the best.

I maintain the hope that his problem remains above the shoulders. Most of his preseasons have been cruelled by injuries and it seems to be extremely hard to build a tank and therefore be competitive and confident if you've missed big chunks and are starting with a low base of confidence. I'm hoping with a full pre season we will see the best competitive beast version knocking down the door for best 22. 

How can you say that it's hard to build a tank during the season when Ben Brown did exactly that? 

The coaching dept showed enough faith in Weid to give him a block of 5 games last year. Weid didn't repay the faith. That's on him. Even if Brown or T Mac got injured, I could easily see Weid still missing out, because both Max and Jackson are developing as forwards. And Fritsch essentially is a key forward.

[Its Time for Another 4,052]

14 minutes ago, mo64 said:

How can you say that it's hard to build a tank during the season when Ben Brown did exactly that? 

The coaching dept showed enough faith in Weid to give him a block of 5 games last year. Weid didn't repay the faith. That's on him. Even if Brown or T Mac got injured, I could easily see Weid still missing out, because both Max and Jackson are developing as forwards. And Fritsch essentially is a key forward.

Roosy stated some years ago that if a player missed the pre Christmas pre season which was when the fitness base is built they would struggle to get full fitness for the rest of the season. It's safe to say the disastrous 2019 pre season shows enough evidence of how hard it is to recover competitiveness having missed large chunks of pre season. 

BBB did a great job overcoming his interrupted pre season. We have no idea how much his fitness was effected compared to Weid's or how long it took for each to get back to full function to be able to build the base. BBB is a lot more experienced and has a lot more proven form to rely on in building his confidence compared to Weid who is yet to cement his career. 

[Dee Zephyr 17,427]

1 hour ago, Its Time for Back to Back said:

As usual another journo who hasn't done their homework. Last pre season Weed was heading for surgery on both hips and BB was on a severely modified program still overcoming the knee surgery before coming to us. BB then had further knee surgery. So the players last pre season who were expected to be our two key forwards basically missed the whole pre season. From memory Clarry had further shoulder surgery and had a modified program for some time. There was quite a list of players in rehab at various stages last pre season. 

We are in way better shape this pre season. Even Tommo seems to be recovered enough from his ACL to be in full training and is expected to be available Rd 1. 

In regards to Weid I don’t believe this is correct. From memory the club discovered a femur issue with Weid mid Feb 2021 and up to that point he was having a really solid pre-season from all reports. The conversation back then was how unfortunate the timing of the injury was. 

[Its Time for Another 4,052]

1 minute ago, Dee Zephyr said:

In regards to Weid I don’t believe this is correct. From memory the club discovered a femur issue with Weid mid Feb 2021 and up to that point he was having a really solid pre-season from all reports. The conversation back then was how unfortunate the timing of the injury was. 

Yes from memory you are correct about this, however, he then lost about 10+ weeks of training so I doubt the pre Christmas training would help by that point. 

[Dee Zephyr 17,427]

7 minutes ago, Its Time for Back to Back said:

Yes from memory you are correct about this, however, he then lost about 10+ weeks of training so I doubt the pre Christmas training would help by that point. 

It was definitely a major setback for him Its Time. There was discussion somewhere that Weid played with sore hips in 2020 you’re right there, I just can’t remember if he did have hip surgery post 2020.

[Cards13 9,117]

1 hour ago, Its Time for Back to Back said:

Roosy stated some years ago that if a player missed the pre Christmas pre season which was when the fitness base is built they would struggle to get full fitness for the rest of the season. It's safe to say the disastrous 2019 pre season shows enough evidence of how hard it is to recover competitiveness having missed large chunks of pre season. 

BBB did a great job overcoming his interrupted pre season. We have no idea how much his fitness was effected compared to Weid's or how long it took for each to get back to full function to be able to build the base. BBB is a lot more experienced and has a lot more proven form to rely on in building his confidence compared to Weid who is yet to cement his career. 

This is where I don’t understand, just build the player back up again and I think we’re almost past that as players are just so fit nowadays and have a “base” mostly already. If it’s a long term injury, sure but for most injuries it shouldn’t take “that long” I’d think. 

[Its Time for Another 4,052]

3 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

It was definitely a major setback for him Its Time. There was discussion somewhere that Weid played with sore hips in 2020 you’re right there, I just can’t remember if he did have hip surgery post 2020.

 

3 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

In regards to Weid I don’t believe this is correct. From memory the club discovered a femur issue with Weid mid Feb 2021 and up to that point he was having a really solid pre-season from all reports. The conversation back then was how unfortunate the timing of the injury was. 

@Dee Zephyr I'm sure you're right about the surgery mid Feb 2021. 

[Grimes Times 1,278]

 

On 1/30/2022 at 2:16 PM, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Wasn't Brown told he wasn't wanted by Rhyce Shaw long before Noble arrived? I'm not suggesting Shaw or North made the wrong decision, just questioning the timing of when that decision was made.

Shaw wasn't making any of the decisions at North. He found out his assistance coaches had been moved on from reading it in the paper.

[tiers 2,761]

My understanding is that there is a difference between "building a tank" and "maintaining the tank".

The former is founded on a series of sustained pre season periods of training over several years. The latter is a on going effort based on solid training in season and regular matches.

To build a tank during a season means that match play and regular training must be suspended to allow for higher training loads. Hard to do during a season whilst playing. If Weid lost 10+ weeks of solid training, and then returned to playing without fully rebuilding his base, then I suspect that his year would have been shot.

Is it possible that Weid played only to give BBB more time to recover?

[58er 5,607]

19 hours ago, Its Time for Back to Back said:

Yes from memory you are correct about this, however, he then lost about 10+ weeks of training so I doubt the pre Christmas training would help by that point. 

The same for BBB as well Don't  forget he was injured during 2020 and only played half a season during the middle stages.

We even stopped him playing for about 6 weeks in the middle of last season to enhance his program and bring his fitness level up to scratch. Weid played while this went on and did not unfortunately perform up to the level to grab the forward  post that BBB secured from about the Port match ( seven games ) and the rest is history.

Any hip injury for Weid in 2021  that has been mentioned I don't think is correct at all and would sound more like 2020 if in fact it ever occurred. 

Now BBB is apparently training really well and reports on Weid are not as encouraging from Picket Fence.

He has also singled out JVR for  some highlights in his adaptation to his first AFL pre season.

I hope like all Dees fans that Sam can make it BUT I fear if he isn't given an opportunity as a third ruck/ forward OR at CHB he will not make it as a KP forward. 
 

[Dee Dee 1,043]

Any word on our new old recruit Luke Dunstan please? How’s he fitting in?

[Nairobi_Demon 315]

On 1/30/2022 at 12:30 AM, loges said:

Just a quick comment re BBB. After watching the 3rd quarter replay so many times I've lost count,I finally noticed who's running into the Bulldog goal square a little late to try and spoil Johanassen's mark, BBB

I noticed this on replay too, Loges. Had to double check whose end of the ground this was - amazing he roamed that far up the ground!

[manny100 1,010]

Ben Brown is a proven AFL good player over a long period. They tend to pick the tempo up quicker. North wanted to bank his salary for future 'mature player' recruiting while presently recruiting kids and list building.

We were just strategically smart picking him up for draft pick peanuts. We will get performance compared way better draft pick value from BB than the Cats will get from Cameron.

[MrReims 305]

My two cents on the Weidemann debate;

During my little covid escape from society I embarked on a day of Kayo repeats (as one does) with a focus on specific players and where our improvements and depth lie. Was rather satisfying validating time affected opinions on the likes of Tomlinson, Hunt, Jordan and Chandler to name a few. This lead to some opinions I might bring up in a fresh topic later on.

But on to the Weed. I submit this potential sliding doors moment. For anyone with the time on their hands I suggest a rewatch of the first half of the Carlton game, Sams first game back from injury. He had come in more to replace Jackson than as a key forward and battled manfully in the ruck but in actuality played and unrewarded blinder in the front half. Tackled, crashed packs, lead to the right spaces without blocking his fellow forwards of which there were many (at times all 5 of Sam, Ben, Tom, Max and Bayley were present) and should have had 2 goals in that half to match his laser pass inside 50 to BB for an inportant goal in the context of the game. Spargo snuck in front of him and stole his mark in the pocket and Chandler, over eager to impress, flew at the wrong time and knocked the ball out of his hands when he was clear 20m out directly in front. Now as we all know Sam is very much a confidence player and I hypothesise that with that little boost of confidence from a blinder first hald he could have really cemented himself in and taken a huge step throughout the year. Instead, my brain says he went into half time thinking "Far out, i'm playing good footy here and still can't kick a flipping goal" and started questioning himself yet again. Now, more desperate to get on the board he changes what he was doing so well and starts to get in the other forwards way, fumbles one clearly overthinking it and ends up with 0.1 for the day.

Do I think he will eventually click and bang down the door on his way to greatness? Hope is the best I can do. But am I confident if we ended up with injuries to Jackson, Brown or McDonald he would be far more than just token replacement. In other words, I wouldnt expect to lose any games because he was playing instead of one or even two of them. So thats not just depth, thats proper coverage

[Dante 2,562]

2 hours ago, MrReims said:

My two cents on the Weidemann debate;

During my little covid escape from society I embarked on a day of Kayo repeats (as one does) with a focus on specific players and where our improvements and depth lie. Was rather satisfying validating time affected opinions on the likes of Tomlinson, Hunt, Jordan and Chandler to name a few. This lead to some opinions I might bring up in a fresh topic later on.

But on to the Weed. I submit this potential sliding doors moment. For anyone with the time on their hands I suggest a rewatch of the first half of the Carlton game, Sams first game back from injury. He had come in more to replace Jackson than as a key forward and battled manfully in the ruck but in actuality played and unrewarded blinder in the front half. Tackled, crashed packs, lead to the right spaces without blocking his fellow forwards of which there were many (at times all 5 of Sam, Ben, Tom, Max and Bayley were present) and should have had 2 goals in that half to match his laser pass inside 50 to BB for an inportant goal in the context of the game. Spargo snuck in front of him and stole his mark in the pocket and Chandler, over eager to impress, flew at the wrong time and knocked the ball out of his hands when he was clear 20m out directly in front. Now as we all know Sam is very much a confidence player and I hypothesise that with that little boost of confidence from a blinder first hald he could have really cemented himself in and taken a huge step throughout the year. Instead, my brain says he went into half time thinking "Far out, i'm playing good footy here and still can't kick a flipping goal" and started questioning himself yet again. Now, more desperate to get on the board he changes what he was doing so well and starts to get in the other forwards way, fumbles one clearly overthinking it and ends up with 0.1 for the day.

Do I think he will eventually click and bang down the door on his way to greatness? Hope is the best I can do. But am I confident if we ended up with injuries to Jackson, Brown or McDonald he would be far more than just token replacement. In other words, I wouldnt expect to lose any games because he was playing instead of one or even two of them. So thats not just depth, thats proper coverage

As a matter of interest, you mentioned Chandler and said you had a bit of a look at him too, what were your thoughts, I watched that game and thought he was just a bee's away from getting a bit of the ball.

 

 

[MrReims 305]

47 minutes ago, Dante said:

As a matter of interest, you mentioned Chandler and said you had a bit of a look at him too, what were your thoughts, I watched that game and thought he was just a bee's away from getting a bit of the ball.

 

 

Yeah look to be honest it wasn't his best but in his handful of games he really did shows glimpses. He is also trying to do too much at times to impress, his best work in that game was sticking to his task and playing for the team. Then the oppurtunities came and he didn't dissapoint in my opinion. He brings a different element. He doesn't have the endurance and tenacity of ANB, the footskills of Spargo or the explosiveness of Pickett but he is the superior aerialist, second only to Pickett in pure crumbing. So if he sticks to it, improves his fitness base when one of them drops out he is going to be a quality replacement and hopefully get a run long enough to prove he will be hard to replace. In fact if he really pushed it hard enough he could potentially push Harmes out indirectly as ANB is capable of more mid minutes with Chandler being able to do Harmes F50 marking presence role a lot better. But he has to be able to cover much more ground for that to happen. No one ever wants to be able to run all day, it takes a brutal amount of work but its so often the difference

[Willmoy1947 3,769]

6 hours ago, MrReims said:

My two cents on the Weidemann debate;

During my little covid escape from society I embarked on a day of Kayo repeats (as one does) with a focus on specific players and where our improvements and depth lie. Was rather satisfying validating time affected opinions on the likes of Tomlinson, Hunt, Jordan and Chandler to name a few. This lead to some opinions I might bring up in a fresh topic later on.

But on to the Weed. I submit this potential sliding doors moment. For anyone with the time on their hands I suggest a rewatch of the first half of the Carlton game, Sams first game back from injury. He had come in more to replace Jackson than as a key forward and battled manfully in the ruck but in actuality played and unrewarded blinder in the front half. Tackled, crashed packs, lead to the right spaces without blocking his fellow forwards of which there were many (at times all 5 of Sam, Ben, Tom, Max and Bayley were present) and should have had 2 goals in that half to match his laser pass inside 50 to BB for an inportant goal in the context of the game. Spargo snuck in front of him and stole his mark in the pocket and Chandler, over eager to impress, flew at the wrong time and knocked the ball out of his hands when he was clear 20m out directly in front. Now as we all know Sam is very much a confidence player and I hypothesise that with that little boost of confidence from a blinder first hald he could have really cemented himself in and taken a huge step throughout the year. Instead, my brain says he went into half time thinking "Far out, i'm playing good footy here and still can't kick a flipping goal" and started questioning himself yet again. Now, more desperate to get on the board he changes what he was doing so well and starts to get in the other forwards way, fumbles one clearly overthinking it and ends up with 0.1 for the day.

Do I think he will eventually click and bang down the door on his way to greatness? Hope is the best I can do. But am I confident if we ended up with injuries to Jackson, Brown or McDonald he would be far more than just token replacement. In other words, I wouldnt expect to lose any games because he was playing instead of one or even two of them. So thats not just depth, thats proper coverage

Concise elevated resume of highest propriety, love the pre answer of expected questions that shows this person has children of his own and is a teacher...

[MrReims 305]

2 hours ago, willmoy said:

Concise elevated resume of highest propriety, love the pre answer of expected questions that shows this person has children of his own and is a teacher...

Ha ha ha, no childless to my knowledge, although some nights in my 20s are a little blurry so a knock on the door from a confused teenager bearing some resemblance isn’t out of the question one day

[DEE fence 4,448]

15 hours ago, Dante said:

As a matter of interest, you mentioned Chandler and said you had a bit of a look at him too, what were your thoughts, I watched that game and thought he was just a bee's away from getting a bit of the ball.

 

 

Funny you mention Chandler, that twitter video the club released of him shaking and baking was actually quite impressive.