The 2 top placings for Most Clangers ever in a Season.

1. Most ever Clayton Oliver 129 clangers , 2021

2. Christian Petracca 125 clangers, 2021

 

Make of that what you will. Stats lie I suppose. Even the kick in from a point is a registered kick.

I hope they win the clanger count again this year. Two. of the best 5 players in last 57 years. Legends both of them.

Edited January 23, 20223 yr by Wizard of Koz
add season

  On 23/01/2022 at 09:13, Wizard of Koz said:

The 2 top placings for Most Clangers ever in a Season.

1. Most ever Clayton Oliver 129 clangers , 2021

2. Christian Petracca 125 clangers, 2021

 

Make of that what you will. Stats lie I suppose. Even the kick in from a point is a registered kick.

I hope they win the clanger count again this year. Two. of the best 5 players in last 57 years. Legends both of them.

just shows you that both players have heaps of room for improvement

scary, eh?

If one gets a hell of a lot of ball in very close far more room for error.

Clangers as a percentage of total disposals could be a slightly better, though still very imperfect, reflection of a player’s worth and contribution. 

One thing I learned from my first coach you cannot make a clanger if you don't get the ball.

So they must of had the ball lots of times, it would be worrying if they had only 129 and 125 possessions for the season.

Since they both played 25 games the clanger count average per game is 5.16 for Oliver and 5 for Petracca.

They had 31.6 possessions average per game for Oliver and 29.2 for Petracca.

Also what was the definition of a clanger?

Edited January 23, 20223 yr by durango

Have a look at the top 10 for clangers over the last five or six seasons. All very decent players  with Dusty being king. 

Both Petracca and Oliver have sporadic games where they really butcher it - talking low 40s disposal efficiency and clangers all over the place.

Our mid-season semi-slump precisely coincided with a patch of games where both had off days at the same time.

They got the problem under control though. 😁

If you get plenty of the ball like Clarry and Trac do there is always a chance your gonna clanger a few.

As someone else here said, what constitutes a clanger and who does the judging?

e g If a midfielder has no other choice but to kick to a contest where his own player plays from behind which allows his opponent to win the ball, does that midfielder record a clanger against his name?

If so, it's a farce. 

And what if the kick forward is primarily to gain ground for his team (under coaching instruction)

We've seen teams deliberately kick the footy deep into the pockets to create a stoppage.  Is that a clanger?

Giving away a deliberate free kick in the back pocket can also be a tactic ... a long kick that sails out on the full then puts pressure on the opposition to manoeuvre the ball out of danger (this tactic is often used in soccer ... allow the opposition to have the ball and then pressure them to turn it over and then counterattack)

A midfielder can't always see a free target but because of pressure from the opposition, he often must dispose of the ball in a risky way

And apart from 2021 & 2018 our forwards would often play from behind ... a cardinal sin even in modern football

I'd award clangers to forwards who play from behind.  And then it's mugs to the backline time if they continue to transgress

These guys make a lot of clangers because they are contested beasts who get the hard ball in high pressure situations more than anybody else. Clary also accumulated over 80 more contested possessions than his nearest rival this season. Law of averages and degree of difficulty dictates they are going make more than most.

Hopefully Viney can join them next year.

I was in need of a good laugh and reading this I got it:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2021&rt=LA&st=CG

 

Raw clanger numbers are a pointless statistic. On the other hand, clangers as a proportion of disposals might have some value. I say "might" because even without hard data to back it up, we can all recognise players who can accumulate but turn it over regularly, compared with those who have a high proportion of useful disposals. Compare, for example, Simon Godfrey with Christian Salem. 

 

Grand final day should have put an end to this pointless statistic. Trac and Clarry burned them.

Winning the ball leads to victories, not purported perfect passes.

GO DEES

 

Players who get the most possessions in the heat of the game make the most mistakes. Who'd have thought? 😁

It shouldn’t be a stat. It’s too subjective. @Maccaexplained this perfectly (above). 

Irrelevant for Trac and Clayton. Their possies are under tremendous pressure.

Clangers in the back line are the worst kind of problem. Think Frost....

 

Leppitsch made the point in the Brisbane final that our game was based on pressure, moving the ball forward as quickly as possible and embracing full field pressure to lock it in or move it further forward. Clangers were a byproduct as a result and the Dees would reset quickly rather than dwell on them.

  On 24/01/2022 at 03:33, WalkingCivilWar said:

It shouldn’t be a stat. It’s too subjective. @Maccaexplained this perfectly (above). 

And at the other end of the scale we don't have a (visible) stat on what I like to call dynamic possessions

An example of that is Salem ... his kicking to position sets up a lot more forward forays as compared to his kicking to position in previous years (not taking as many safer options)  ... no risk, no reward

Oliver,  Petracca,  May & Bowey are others that stand out in the dynamic possession area.  Harmes when at his best is handy too. Others such as Viney, Langdon & Brayshaw can be quite creative with their disposals

Oliver stands out as the best in that area ... he has incredible vision (Petracca is catching him though!)

If the clangers are the price for a premiership, All Australian Jackets, Norm Smith and Coaches player of the year award, I’ll happy pay it

I would have thought the Bulldogs defence, myself….

  On 23/01/2022 at 22:33, sue said:

I was in need of a good laugh and reading this I got it:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2021&rt=LA&st=CG

 

Sam Frost doesn’t even make top 50!

The champion data definition is useless.  “Disposal clangers are any kick or handball that directly turns the ball over to the opposition. Frees and 50-metre penalties against, No Pressure Errors, Dropped Marks and Debits are all included in clangers.”

We all watched Frosty for long enough to know exactly what a clanger is.  Yet Champion data decides tearing out of the backline and missing an easy handball to an open teammate that results in a stoppage doesn’t count, yet Tracc bursting out of a centre clearance and kicking a point from 60m does.  Go figure.  

The top 11 (inc Wines) are a who's who of the best players in the comp.

Any player would be proud to be included in this list. And note the small difference in numbers - excluding outlier Adams there is less than 0.50 average between 2 and 11.

Stats like these stink.

  On 24/01/2022 at 04:56, Watson11 said:

Sam Frost doesn’t even make top 50!

The champion data definition is useless.  “Disposal clangers are any kick or handball that directly turns the ball over to the opposition. Frees and 50-metre penalties against, No Pressure Errors, Dropped Marks and Debits are all included in clangers.”

We all watched Frosty for long enough to know exactly what a clanger is.  Yet Champion data decides tearing out of the backline and missing an easy handball to an open teammate that results in a stoppage doesn’t count, yet Tracc bursting out of a centre clearance and kicking a point from 60m does.  Go figure.  

As you point out above, it's not just about how a clanger is defined, it's about the situation and where on the ground the clanger occurs.

Clarry and Trac probably have mostly forward half clangers, as opposed to back half clangers leading to turnovers that open you up and get you scored against.

  On 24/01/2022 at 04:01, In Harmes Way said:

Leppitsch made the point in the Brisbane final that our game was based on pressure, moving the ball forward as quickly as possible and embracing full field pressure to lock it in or move it further forward. Clangers were a byproduct as a result and the Dees would reset quickly rather than dwell on them.

In that sense, our excellent team defence this season pretty much gave Oliver and Trac a licence to be attacking and turn it over more often in our forward half, without it really hurting us, because we were already so well setup down the line defensively that we'd more often than not win it back.  Must also build pressure on the opposition when Trac and Clarry can be so attacking without suffering substantial consequences for turning it over.  Eventually the dam wall breaks and you get the BANG, BANG, BANG!!

Edited January 24, 20223 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

  On 23/01/2022 at 14:15, Macca said:

A midfielder can't always see a free target but because of pressure from the opposition, he often must dispose of the ball in a risky way

And apart from 2021 & 2018 our forwards would often play from behind ... a cardinal sin even in modern football

I'd award clangers to forwards who play from behind.  And then it's mugs to the backline time if they continue to transgress

A couple of things in this; I've mentioned this before but it irked me for a long time that the kicker wouldn't/ couldn't deliver the ball to advantage. Saying that it's a cardinal sin for a forward to play from behind is a somewhat antiquated view. You sometimes hear dinosaurs like BT say "he's got a cheapy over the back" but if Cozzy is caught behind 20m from goal and the kicker has a 30 m kick to land it on his head and a 25m kick to hit him up if he was on a lead where do you think the ball should be delivered? In the past, in the scenario given it would have been on the chest of a defender. One of the things I have so often seen Spargo do and now have seen Bowey do is to kick to "advantage". Sometimes that also means where the boundary line is your friend (without making it an "insufficient attempt" free).

So in the scenario above; if Trac kicks the ball 50m over Cozzies and the defenders head and it lands 4m behind Coz does that constitute a clanger? Is Coz to be criticised for not playing in front? I think we all know the outcome!

It's the worst stat in football.

The best players are always well represented, especially mids at the coalface.