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2004 boys, time to read the Riot Act.


bush demon

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The player's from our round 18  team of 2004 should read the riot act to this lot and tell them they are on the verge of squandering everything.  The 2004 team was also a great one, unfortunately it lost its way. We are good enough if the self-belief can be re-ignited.

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I remember the game we went top , beating the hawks who were a rabble that year , they showed the ladder up on the scoreboard at the G, I couldn’t believe we were top so late into the season. Then we got smashed over at port and the wheels fell off. The only highlight after that was Matty Whelan’s bump on ? [censored] in the elimination final , a shocking capitulation by the club in an open year for the flag . 
I think we were more flat track bullies that year, whereas this year we’re not, but have major issues in maintaining intensity against lowly sides. It’s a good reminder though , we lost 5 straight and finished 5th.  

Edited by Delusional demon 82
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Let me get this straight; the team NQR team that made its way from 1st to 5th needs to come and yell at the team that 10 points clear of 5th with 5 rounds to go. A team that has beaten every other team in the 8 that it has played, and has 5 bonafide stars of the game?

Paul Wheatley - you yell at Trent Rivers. 
Brad Miller - give a spray to Charlie Spargo.

Honestly.

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2 hours ago, Delusional demon 82 said:

I remember the game we went top , beating the hawks who were a rabble that year , they showed the ladder up on the scoreboard at the G, I couldn’t believe we were top so late into the season. Then we got smashed over at port and the wheels fell off. The only highlight after that was Matty Whelan’s bump on ? [censored] in the elimination final , a shocking capitulation by the club in an open year for the flag . 
I think we were more flat track bullies that year, whereas this year we’re not, but have major issues in maintaining intensity against lowly sides. It’s a good reminder though , we lost 5 straight and finished 5th.  

From memory the training load changed late in the season to prime ourselves for finals. They just didn't anticipate they would lose each of the last four games.

That being said, we should have beaten Essendon in the qualifying final. Few dodgy things went against us from memory including a reversal of a certain goal to us that led to a goal to them. Not that you can go far from fifth anyway!

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1 hour ago, rpfc said:

Let me get this straight; the team NQR team that made its way from 1st to 5th needs to come and yell at the team that 10 points clear of 5th with 5 rounds to go. A team that has beaten every other team in the 8 that it has played, and has 5 bonafide stars of the game?

Paul Wheatley - you yell at Trent Rivers. 
Brad Miller - give a spray to Charlie Spargo.

Honestly.

As long as it's not David Hughes.

I was once like you are now
And I know that it's not easy
To be calm when you've found
Something going on
But take your time, think a lot
Think of everything you've got
For you will still be here tomorrow
But your dreams may not.

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11 hours ago, John Crow Batty said:

I hope that stunned mullet look on the players faces after last night is poignant. They don’t need a lecture. I hope it shocked them in a positive way. 

How many shocks do you reckon it'll take?

Crows

Pies

GWS

Now this

To go with the pretty salty efforts against ladder laggards early in year, NM, Hawks till 3/4 time, Carlton, etc.

 

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10 minutes ago, Smokey said:

These threads are just embarrassing, honestly. My 3 year old has better coping skills than some here.  

right 

so lets see how she is after 50 years of following this lot

too early to tell.

 

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Just now, Smokey said:

These threads are just embarrassing, honestly. My 3 year old has better coping skills than some here.  

I think it is more about making the most of the opportunity you have.  We are on top of the ladder, 2 and a half games clear of 5th, there is an opportunity to give yourself every chance to play off in a GF.  Also how quickly it can all turn, 2 years later the 2004 playing group was done we dropped off the cliff in 2007 and have been struggling to climb that cliff for the past 14 years.

We are in  great position, take the challenge and don't look back with regrets of what could have been.  What can be is a double chance that gives you the best opportunity to play off in a GF.

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12 minutes ago, drdrake said:

I think it is more about making the most of the opportunity you have.  We are on top of the ladder, 2 and a half games clear of 5th, there is an opportunity to give yourself every chance to play off in a GF.  Also how quickly it can all turn, 2 years later the 2004 playing group was done we dropped off the cliff in 2007 and have been struggling to climb that cliff for the past 14 years.

We are in  great position, take the challenge and don't look back with regrets of what could have been.  What can be is a double chance that gives you the best opportunity to play off in a GF.

Do you think the crushing weight of an entire generation of failure is helpful for the current group of players? Why would the club go out of their way to put further burdens on the playing group like this? This thread is trash. 

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The message rings true, not sure why posters are knocking the thread. 

Right now, at this point in the year we're a team that is bringing inconsistent levels of intensity and inconsistent levels of skill execution to games. 

We're in control of our own destiny and if we want to give ourselves the best opportunity of winning a flag, top four is a must but really I hope we finish second so we get a home first final at the G. (pending Covid). 

We've been amazingly good this year for much of it. But the losses to the lower sides and less than impressive wins against the others do concern me. It's completely between the ears, we are still so immature in many ways. 

Allowing Hawthorn back into the game, with the outs they have the team we were fielding is simply unforgivable and speaks directly to the complacency and immaturity that still exists. 

We start well, put on a strong lead and then drop off in all areas by 5% which is enough for Clarkson's strong, hungry and proud Hawthorn side to kick a bag of unanswered goals, get their tails up and then keep their intensity for the remainder of the game. 

Our arousal levels have been unquestionably strong against top sides. We have no problem getting ourselves up. But then we come up against lesser sides and just don't give the same level of respect for long enough during games. That's it right there. Give the same level of respect for long enough. 

I thought we looked on and hungry in the first quarter against the Hawks. But it's as if our entire midfield all at once drop intensity, skill level and decision making by 5% due to having a comfortable lead so early in a match against a lesser side. 

There's still a fair bit of growing up to do imo. 

 

 

Edited by JimmyGadson
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The 2004 team has zero relevance for this group

We have a mental block when it comes to the lesser teams. It's strange how these things develop but i reckon we'll continue struggle as the pattern has been set. The Suns and Adelaide games will be grinds

On the flip side our record v Top 8 is exemplary. The coaching staff will be re-enforcing the importance of roles and system this week and i fully expect an improved performance against the Doggies. I reckon we'll beat them and all will be rosy in the garden again.

Finals will bring a different pressure. I've no idea how we'll hold up

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Just now, BDA said:

The 2004 team has zero relevance for this group

We have a mental block when it comes to the lesser teams. It's strange how these things develop but i reckon we'll continue struggle as the pattern has been set. The Suns and Adelaide games will be grinds

On the flip side our record v Top 8 is exemplary. The coaching staff will be re-enforcing the importance of roles and system this week and i fully expect an improved performance against the Doggies. I reckon we'll beat them and all will be rosy in the garden again.

Finals will bring a different pressure. I've no idea how we'll hold up

The link is mental fragility.

I remember the 2004 side like it was yesterday, I was 17. I don't remember there being any unforeseen circumstances that meant we lost 5 straight to end the season. 

Whether Melb supporters like to hear it our not, we've been a basket case club for a long time and an average club for a longer time. It takes years to change perceptions and narratives and years to build new perceptions and narratives. 

At the moment, proud, strong and successful clubs can still beat us and I place part of that, even if small on the fact that we've been a walk over club for a long time. 

I can only imagine what Clarkson would have been saying at half time to his players and I doubt it'd have been glowing MFC talk. If you've been involved at footy at any level, you know what I'm talking about. 

We have the chance to write our own future, build new perceptions and narratives about the Melbourne footy club. We're obviously a different team, different personalities and individually these guys wouldn't be thinking about these kinds of things. But opposition coaches, media personell, supporters and the rest have a whole different perspective on what a club stands for. 

And many many people still don't believe we're onto anything. 

I mean, one only needs to experience being at a Melbourne home game against a lower side to get a glimpse/feeling into what Melb supporters have been through. It's in the air and in the way we support. 

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49 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Do you think the crushing weight of an entire generation of failure is helpful for the current group of players? Why would the club go out of their way to put further burdens on the playing group like this? This thread is trash. 

It isn't putting the burden onto them, the burden of failure is on us the supporters.  What my post was highlighting was you have a window of opportunity to be successful, don't waste it as it all could be over very quickly.  Does the modern day player care about this, they get the same pay cheque win lose or draw, a premiership is more for the supporters. 

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I do remember that game against Hawthorn in 2004 well. There seemed to be OOT celebrations by the players after the game and our fans as well. I hope we haven’t slid into that trap as well after our top four rivals demolition of recent weeks.

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1 hour ago, drdrake said:

I think it is more about making the most of the opportunity you have.  We are on top of the ladder, 2 and a half games clear of 5th, there is an opportunity to give yourself every chance to play off in a GF.  Also how quickly it can all turn, 2 years later the 2004 playing group was done we dropped off the cliff in 2007 and have been struggling to climb that cliff for the past 14 years.

We are in  great position, take the challenge and don't look back with regrets of what could have been.  What can be is a double chance that gives you the best opportunity to play off in 

 

Edited by bush demon
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What really matters is the sum of all the parts, our ladder position and how we fare against the good sides

Quite honestly, with tempered and sensible expectations we are punching above our weight (all things considered)

Our list isn't all that strong with about a dozen players in the team that could be rated no higher than B.  And some are C+ only.  But in my eyes you have to be a damn good player to be graded as B+ (Rivers, Brayshaw and 1 or 2 others fall short)

We're on top of the ladder, we've beaten all the good teams quite convincingly and there are no other teams to fear.  Is there a team out there that we should be overly concerned about? 

Yes, we definitely have a problem with the lesser lights but that is only a real problem if those sorts of performances happen against the good teams.  And on the evidence this season, that isn't happening

And there wasn't a person at the start of the season predicting that we'd be on top of the ladder after round 19 with zero losses to any of the good teams

Edited by Macca
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23 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

The link is mental fragility.

I remember the 2004 side like it was yesterday, I was 17. I don't remember there being any unforeseen circumstances that meant we lost 5 straight to end the season. 

Whether Melb supporters like to hear it our not, we've been a basket case club for a long time and an average club for a longer time. It takes years to change perceptions and narratives and years to build new perceptions and narratives. 

At the moment, proud, strong and successful clubs can still beat us and I place part of that, even if small on the fact that we've been a walk over club for a long time. 

I can only imagine what Clarkson would have been saying at half time to his players and I doubt it'd have been glowing MFC talk. If you've been involved at footy at any level, you know what I'm talking about. 

We have the chance to write our own future, build new perceptions and narratives about the Melbourne footy club. We're obviously a different team, different personalities and individually these guys wouldn't be thinking about these kinds of things. But opposition coaches, media personell, supporters and the rest have a whole different perspective on what a club stands for. 

And many many people still don't believe we're onto anything. 

I mean, one only needs to experience being at a Melbourne home game against a lower side to get a glimpse/feeling into what Melb supporters have been through. It's in the air and in the way we support. 

Really well summarised. 

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We are still learning how to be a team that sits up at the pointy end of the ladder. Every week we are a scalp, particularly to lower teams who don't play as well.

It's a paradox, but those sides shut us down more effectively than better teams who trust their system and ability to outplay us. GWS & Hawks both flooded, cramped us for space and we ended up in fumble city. Then got lucky in that we panicked. That the HFC goal kicking was a lot straighter than ours helped their cause, but really our destiny was in our own hands.Adelaide, it was more that it was just their day. Everything worked for them that day. Collingwood, the occasion was made for them and they responded. Regardless, each time we had it in our power to prevail.

The players make some noise before the season about how angry they were about last year. I hope there is still some vestige of that left over, that they can use to motivate themselves to be up all the time.

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10 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Then got lucky in that we panicked

Not sure they got lucky with that. It’s on us, surely?

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It's not written in stone. There is time to get back on track.

However, 2004 is a cautionary tale.

There are differences of course. We finally hit the top of the ladder in round 18. It felt surreal at the time and as though we'd 'made it'. We've been on top for most of the year this year so there has been no feeling of 'breakthrough' like then.

Furthermore, our team now has 5 genuine A graders in there. We probably had one in 2004 (Neita) with White having an A grade season. Most of the backline was cobbled together of NQR players in '04 (Nicho),  former forwards sent back (Biz,  Holland) or developing players who would ultimately become good 2nd choice talls (Riv). Our mids had a lot of silk, but no mongrel. Junior got under the packs, but didn't have the frame or power of a Tracc.

And that would make it all the more tragic if we fluffed this year. I remember when we lost to Essendon in that Elimination Final that it felt like the year wasn't over. It felt like 6 weeks prior that we were on track to win the flag. Hell, even that game against the Bombers saw us come charging back, thus giving us a bizarre sense of optimism to end the year.

This is the lesson that should be taken out of that year. It really doesn't take much for things to go sideways. This should be reinforced ten fold considering that we took the foot off the gas 5 to 10% in all three of our losses (and after the 10 minute mark of the second quarter against the Hawks) and we paid the price.

There were no real extenuating circumstances like injury troubles in '04, and there aren't now. It comes down to attitude. 

With all that said, the '04 bunch aren't the ones to read the riot act to the boys. I'd say the team that should do that is the '05 Swans.

If any team proved that it didn't matter how many high end draft picks you had, how wide your premiership window was according to age profile or how many easy games you have in front of you, it was them. Those Swans teams had made 75% to 80% of the pure talent of those Eagles teams, yet they won a flag and ran the Eagles to the line the next year. They probably have 85% to 90% of our pure talent, but if we had a time machine and were able to pit them against us, I'd say they would more than definitely have a chance of rolling us. This is purely because of their commitment to a game plan and each other.

 

 

Edited by Colin B. Flaubert
Wanted to add an extra sentence at the end re: the Swans
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10 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

It's not written in stone. There is time to get back on track.

However, 2004 is a cautionary tale.

There are differences of course. We finally hit the top of the ladder in round 18. It felt surreal at the time and as though we'd 'made it'. We've been on top for most of the year this year so there has been no feeling of 'breakthrough' like then.

Furthermore, our team now has 5 genuine A graders in there. We probably had one in 2004 (Neita) with White having an A grade season. Most of the backline was cobbled together of NQR players in '04 (Nicho),  former forwards sent back (Biz,  Holland) or developing players who would ultimately become good 2nd choice talls (Riv). Our mids had a lot of silk, but no mongrel. Junior got under the packs, but didn't have the frame or power of a Tracc.

And that would make it all the more tragic if we fluffed this year. I remember when we lost to Essendon in that Elimination Final that it felt like the year wasn't over. It felt like 6 weeks prior that we were on track to win the flag. Hell, even that game against the Bombers saw us come charging back, thus giving us a bizarre sense of optimism to end the year.

This is the lesson that should be taken out of that year. It really doesn't take much for things to go sideways. This should be reinforced ten fold considering that we took the foot off the gas 5 to 10% in all three of our losses (and after the 10 minute mark of the second quarter against the Hawks) and we paid the price.

There were no real extenuating circumstances like injury troubles in '04, and there aren't now. It comes down to attitude. 

 

I'd still argue that the '04 team was better than the current team anyway (as a collective in terms of pure talent)

What is different is we now play to a system which requires a total team effort (a form of total football which the Bulldogs & then Richmond displayed)

But to play like like that every week is energy sapping & extremely challenging especially when it's something completely new.  Lets face it, areas like forward line pressure at our club was virtually non existant until this season

I'd rather focus on the positives whilst acknowledging the flaws.  For some here, they can only see the negatives

Anyone stumbling upon this site might think we weren't even in the 8

 

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