Caro: Are the Demons the Real Deal in 2021?

[Pates 9,537]

If anyone is talking us up then they aren’t true rusted on Melbourne fans. I’ve been happy with our wins, but they’ve been far from polished wins and they’ve been against average to decent opposition. Sydney beating the tigers at the G was a much bigger win to put a team in the frame than us beating an ego-bruised but wounded Giants in Canberra. 

I wouldn’t say we’ve beaten nobody, if our three wins were Kangaroos, Essendon, and Hawthorn then I’d be saying we haven’t beaten anyone of note. But Freo gave us trouble last year, Saints have always had something over us and played finals last year, while GWS have some absolutely guns and were copping a belting from the media. All three were both winnable and losable, but guess what, we won! 

[Macca 16,173]

13 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

I agree with the jist of what you're saying... but I think you'll find any time we win three on the trot there will be talk of minimal changes.  But as soon as we drop one (it won't be far away) watch the knives come out for the whipping boys (currently Jones, Sparrow, TMac, Jetta, Brayshaw).  

Fair enough dl but there aren't many who aren't playing their part ... even those with low possessions seem to be doing the team things that aren't always noticeable

I highlighted Sparrow for that reason ... we supporters don't really know what his role is but he is (by and large) being given the benefit of the doubt by many here.  I reckon many here recognise that he has been given a task by the MC and is carrying that task out

And I've never understood the whipping boy mentality ... is that some sort of primeval instinct left over from the cave man days? ?

I try not to play favourites nor have anyone in the gun.  To me, it's nearly always about the team (and Kozzie!)

Edited April 6, 2021 by Macca

[Ted Lasso 16,855]

from 3-0 we're pretty unlikely to miss finals, but the thing i can't work out is, have we just been not that great, and beaten bad opposition, or have we beaten okay opposition, pretty comortably without getting out of first gear. 

i have a feeling this team hasn't really had to dig deep yet this year, will be interested how we go against the Cats. 

I've got a feeling we might come out and smack them.

[picket fence 15,268]

1 hour ago, Pates said:

If anyone is talking us up then they aren’t true rusted on Melbourne fans. I’ve been happy with our wins, but they’ve been far from polished wins and they’ve been against average to decent opposition. Sydney beating the tigers at the G was a much bigger win to put a team in the frame than us beating an ego-bruised but wounded Giants in Canberra. 

I wouldn’t say we’ve beaten nobody, if our three wins were Kangaroos, Essendon, and Hawthorn then I’d be saying we haven’t beaten anyone of note. But Freo gave us trouble last year, Saints have always had something over us and played finals last year, while GWS have some absolutely guns and were copping a belting from the media. All three were both winnable and losable, but guess what, we won! 

Excellent points well made!

Is it called "Maturity"??

[rjay 23,927]

3 hours ago, Dr.D said:

getting way ahead of ourselves. we looked average against the dockers and average against gws until the last 15 mins. 

 

It must be a bit sad for you 'Dr'...all the talk of Goodwin's position being in jeopardy if we go 0 & 4, 0 & 5...

It was almost like you and some of the others were hoping for us to start poorly.

Getting rid of Goodwin seemed to be the narrative when we inevitably failed.

Now it's the old we've had an easy draw story...preseason Freo were picked as big improvers, the Saints top 4 and GWS a solid final 8 aspirant after a disappointing 2020.

It's still too early to say where any team sits this season, probably North are the only one that appear to be headed for the spoon.

Well we're 3 and 0 sitting top 4.

I'll take that, any win's a good win. Don't let your dislike of Goodwin and a need to be proven right sour a good start to the season.

Enjoy!!!

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

4 hours ago, Dr.D said:

getting way ahead of ourselves. we looked average against the dockers and average against gws until the last 15 mins. 

 

Who are you directing this at? I think most of us realise we aren't world-beaters at the moment but we have beaten the teams we should beat and that's something worth enjoying given that losing those games is an all too common occurrence for the Demons.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

2 hours ago, In Harmes Way said:

We won’t be flag contenders if we win on Sunday, nor will we miss the finals if we don’t. Our form in round 4 isn’t as important as our form in R22, but getting ahead of the W-L ledger is great as a pressure relief

This is spot on. Banking wins early while not playing our best footy is the perfect scenario.

Given the resurgence of stock standard key forwards, it will be interesting how quickly we can integrate Ben Brown into the side.

If he can stay fit, he's exactly the type of player who will benefit from the opening up of leading lanes that the new rules afford.

It may be a rocky road but there really is the potential for a lot of improvement in this side and these three wins could buy us the time we need to get things right should we suffer the inevitable slide at some point. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Cheesy D. Pun

[deelusions from afar 1,613]

2 hours ago, Macca said:

Fair enough dl but there aren't many who aren't playing their part ... even those with low possessions seem to be doing the team things that aren't always noticeable

I highlighted Sparrow for that reason ... we supporters don't really know what his role is but he is (by and large) being given the benefit of the doubt by many here.  I reckon many here recognise that he has been given a task by the MC and is carrying that task out

And I've never understood the whipping boy mentality ... is that some sort of primeval instinct left over from the cave man days? ?

I try not to play favourites nor have anyone in the gun.  To me, it's nearly always about the team (and Kozzie!)

Nah I agree - (I think) I see it the same way as you.  Everyone seems to be playing their role which is all you can ask of them.

There's always a diversity of opinions on here and ultimately we all want the team to keep winning - so (sadly) its probably only natural that when things aren't going well, supporters will be looking for someone to blame.

So I agree with what you're saying... but I don't know if others on here will have a similar view when a loss comes.

[Macca 16,173]

11 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

Nah I agree - (I think) I see it the same way as you.  Everyone seems to be playing their role which is all you can ask of them.

There's always a diversity of opinions on here and ultimately we all want the team to keep winning - so (sadly) its probably only natural that when things aren't going well, supporters will be looking for someone to blame.

So I agree with what you're saying... but I don't know if others on here will have a similar view when a loss comes.

Scapegoating kicks in with the losses ... head coach, umpires, 1 or 2 players etc etc. 

I have always viewed the multiple losses as being the whole clubs fault ... true leadership would see the best performed person at the club putting their hand up as being part of the problem (in those circumstances)

So us supporters blaming one thing or another is not only a futile exercise, it doesn't solve the real issues.  Not even close.  The argument ends up going around in circles.  Besides which,  we supporters effect very little ... we are mere onlookers.  We're just yapping away pub-talk style

Recruiting from an overall perspective is the biggie (when was the last time we had a 'genuine' premiership type list?) ... but with excellent recruiting comes a well run club and top level coaching

So fast forward to now ... hate to say it but we're still a work in progress.  We can play finals of course but to win a premiership we'll need at least 4-6 more top level footballers.  Last year the number was 6-8 (in my view) so we're getting there

How's this for a forward line ...

Hall   Brereton  Buckenara

Loveridge  Dunstall  P Dear

The 6th best forward won a Norm Smith medal

That's how good you have to be to be a true (ongoing) contender ... go close and you'll be a contender still.  Fall short and you'll fall away

I've never read Smith's book but from what I can gather,  we were the kings of recruiting during those glory days

 

[BDA 20,187]

8 hours ago, Pates said:

Sydney beating the tigers at the G was a much bigger win to put a team in the frame than us beating an ego-bruised but wounded Giants in Canberra

I'm glad Sydney are attracting all the media attention this week. Keeps the spotlight off us and lets us fly under the radar for a while longer yet. Beat Geelong and i reckon the media will sit up and start to pay more attention to us.

[BDA 20,187]

9 hours ago, Winter Dan said:

We have though, had luck going our way with all three teams we've played having a fair injury list and previous week travel adversity. And this looks to continue with Geelongs key outs and I note Hawthorn are playing in the West next week ahead of our game. 

Luck is a great quality to have. It's a big variable in the equation and doesn't get acknowledged enough. The random bounce of the ball, a dodgy umpire's call (hopefully we get a few in our favor against Geelong), facing teams with injury issues. 

I'll graciously accept any good fortune that falls our way. We got stitched last year with the schedule so we're due some.

[IRW 1,246]

8 hours ago, Pates said:

If anyone is talking us up then they aren’t true rusted on Melbourne fans. I’ve been happy with our wins, but they’ve been far from polished wins and they’ve been against average to decent opposition. Sydney beating the tigers at the G was a much bigger win to put a team in the frame than us beating an ego-bruised but wounded Giants in Canberra. 

I wouldn’t say we’ve beaten nobody, if our three wins were Kangaroos, Essendon, and Hawthorn then I’d be saying we haven’t beaten anyone of note. But Freo gave us trouble last year, Saints have always had something over us and played finals last year, while GWS have some absolutely guns and were copping a belting from the media. All three were both winnable and losable, but guess what, we won! 

A little kind but fair enough. 

I would say we look very vulnerable to good sides and still lack speed and basic ball skills. 

The " new " AFL  game style doesn't suit us

[Seetrollgetttroll 89]

11 hours ago, Macca said:

The 3 teams we have beaten aren't contenders but we still won all 3

And that's a big positive because previously we could have been expected to drop 1 or maybe 2 of the games

We're definitely a better team in terms of how many players are being questioned on whether they should stay in the side... many here are saying no change (again)

Sparrow is a good example ... from all accounts he's doing a lot of the team aspects (1%ers) but is not racking up the possessions.  Previously, many would be calling for his absolute omission

And we kicked 15 goals against GWS despite not having a meaningful contribution from T-Mac (who, to be fair was up against 2 or 3 defenders in a crowded forward line for most of the game)

GWS shot themselves in the foot with those tactics as our backline ended up have an easy time of it (despite the Toby Greene cameos)

Good point Macca. If we didn't drop consecutive games to two average outfits in Sydney and Fremantle last season, we may have gone on to play finals. 

I think any fan of Melbourne at this stage (as well as those involved at the club, coaches and players alike) know not to get ahead of themselves, but that doesn't mean their shouldn't be an air of optimism about our 3-0 start. At the end of the day, talk or no talk, teams don't have any success without self-belief. 

[chookrat 3,776]

15 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Guilty until proven innocent’: Are the Demons the real deal in 2021?

I haven't bothered listening to the podcast but will say this, in 2018 we didn't play brilliantly all season instead our consistency afforded the footy department the ability to tweak and work on parts of our game that led to dominant patches leading up to the bye and in the lead up to finals. This year we are not playing fantastic football yet, but have been consistent and reliable against middle of the table opposition which gives the footy department alot to work with in getting us on song. With Geelong and Richmond coming up, both sides that aren't at their best, provides a platform for us to keep winning and build our game against sides playing well including Doggies, Swans, West coast and Port.

Edited April 6, 2021 by chookrat

[Engorged Onion 9,354]

What is noticeable is that we are winning matches with our structure. Not with class of certain players.

The beauty (and the evidence on exposed form)  is that Oliver, or Petracca, or others, can have a quieter game, errors can (and will) be made by all players, yet the system holds up.

We don't even have our 2 best available forwards...and the system still holds up.

We are winning due to a system... and we have multiple plans A, B and C if you will... which the game day coaching staff switch on the fly, and the players respond... actually - word of mouth is, the players are enacting this stuff on the ground

So the system may not allow you to win every week..., but it gives you best opportunity.

This is what I am excited about...it's a [censored] system that works, with the demographic of our list....and like all systems and all new players... it takes time for there to be cohesion with it.

It's all coming together very nicely...

 

*From season one fully in charge - Goodwin has shown he is an innovator. He is a switched on cat, who has surrounded himself now with relevant expertise. Remember Yze was meant to come on board 2 years ago, not just the most recent off season.

Change is a long drawn out process, so is recruitment of relevant personnel (players and fd staff).

Go you fire trucking good things...

Edited April 6, 2021 by Engorged Onion

[Bitter but optimistic 21,313]

Three rounds in is too early to be making definitive calls on any teams form or finals chances 

But ..... FFS ...... I’ll celebrate a three zip start anytime!

Edited April 6, 2021 by Bitter but optimistic
Typo

[John Crow Batty 8,258]

The bookies don’t think so. Geelong clear favourites to beat us despite barely surviving against the lowly hawks.

[Sir Why You Little 34,599]

Just now, John Crow Batty said:

The bookies don’t think so. Geelong clear favourites to beat us despite barely surviving against the lowly hawks.

Good ? 

[Commissioner Dreyfus 49]

18 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

The media aren't talking us up at all

All the experts got burnt in 2019 so no chance they'll get carried away with the Dees just yet

Except for Matt Rendell.

He announced on Dwaynes show today that  in his opinion  Melbourne, along with West Coast, can go all the way. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Commissioner Dreyfus
Sp

[BDA 20,187]

1 hour ago, Commissioner Dreyfus said:

Except for Matt Rendell.

He announced on Dwaynes show today that  in his opinion  Melbourne, along with West Coast, can go all the way. 

So it begins. I was hoping to keep a lid on it for a while longer yet.

[Pates 9,537]

11 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

Luck is a great quality to have. It's a big variable in the equation and doesn't get acknowledged enough. The random bounce of the ball, a dodgy umpire's call (hopefully we get a few in our favor against Geelong), facing teams with injury issues. 

I'll graciously accept any good fortune that falls our way. We got stitched last year with the schedule so we're due some.

I’ve long believed that over the years we have really been in contention, luck has been the variable we haven’t had and it’s also the variable most premiership teams have had. 

Look at the doggies drought breaking year, they got luck with the timing of their form spike (plus some very one-sided umpiring in the GF). No way were they the best team that season. 

The Pies when they drew with the Saints, were it not for a bad bounce for Milne the Saints would have won the first week. 

Even Essendon in 2000, they had zero injuries that season. They were a powerful and good team, but I think they changed their squad twice in the year. 

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

20 hours ago, Macca said:

Fair enough dl but there aren't many who aren't playing their part ... even those with low possessions seem to be doing the team things that aren't always noticeable

Yep. Based on some of the commentary here, you'd think the team gathers a thousand possessions a game.

The inferred expectation that players need 15+ possessions to hold their spot is ludicrous. I'll take Sparrow's pressure rating with 5 possessions every day of the week.

[chookrat 3,776]

9 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

What is noticeable is that we are winning matches with our structure. Not with class of certain players.

The beauty (and the evidence on exposed form)  is that Oliver, or Petracca, or others, can have a quieter game, errors can (and will) be made by all players, yet the system holds up.

We don't even have our 2 best available forwards...and the system still holds up.

We are winning due to a system... and we have multiple plans A, B and C if you will... which the game day coaching staff switch on the fly, and the players respond... actually - word of mouth is, the players are enacting this stuff on the ground

So the system may not allow you to win every week..., but it gives you best opportunity.

This is what I am excited about...it's a [censored] system that works, with the demographic of our list....and like all systems and all new players... it takes time for there to be cohesion with it.

It's all coming together very nicely...

 

*From season one fully in charge - Goodwin has shown he is an innovator. He is a switched on cat, who has surrounded himself now with relevant expertise. Remember Yze was meant to come on board 2 years ago, not just the most recent off season.

Change is a long drawn out process, so is recruitment of relevant personnel (players and fd staff).

Go you fire trucking good things...

There is definitely a change to how our players behave on field. Watch the start of the 4th quarter v GWS after Toby Greene kicks two quick goals early, and how composed our players are. They don't react or panic, they probably make some subtle changes on field but essentially trust on their system and each other and go about winning.

At no stage during this season while watching a match did I think we're in trouble here and I think it is that our players look in control. Compare this to 2018 when we would smash teams for 4-5 weeks in a row but still be inconsistent outside of these patches, 2019 when it looked like we were trying but could do one thing well each match but lacked cohesion across the ground, 2020 when our performances yo-yo'd from game to game and quarter to quarter.

Im feeling really good about where we sit this year and what is ahead. Dees!

[picket fence 15,268]

21 hours ago, rjay said:

It must be a bit sad for you 'Dr'...all the talk of Goodwin's position being in jeopardy if we go 0 & 4, 0 & 5...

It was almost like you and some of the others were hoping for us to start poorly.

Getting rid of Goodwin seemed to be the narrative when we inevitably failed.

Now it's the old we've had an easy draw story...preseason Freo were picked as big improvers, the Saints top 4 and GWS a solid final 8 aspirant after a disappointing 2020.

It's still too early to say where any team sits this season, probably North are the only one that appear to be headed for the spoon.

Well we're 3 and 0 sitting top 4.

I'll take that, any win's a good win. Don't let your dislike of Goodwin and a need to be proven right sour a good start to the season.

Enjoy!!!

Is it coincidence or does Goody seem to have more of a handle on it now that Chocco and Useeeebee are more involved??

Call me Devils advocate but Chocco might have been thinking, I'll support Goody to the Hilt and if things dont go well possibly they might ahhh Look at me as Senior Coach, On the other hand, he also might have thought, Sheeeeeit Noone wanted me, the Dees came calling, how good would it be to be an integral part of something Speeecccial!! Very very special!??

Yze, Similar, 

No conspiracy theories, but Goody does seem more at ease! Of course this will be tested on Sunday! It appears he has embraced both Choco and Yze and after all why wouldn't you! Premiership Coach and Master Apprentice to Clarko!!

At the end of the day if it means we finally get it all mostly together and we continue to win games then the future will look after itself, Indelibly! and Emphatically! 

Also and not neglecting, we have some Class coming back in Ben Brown and Weeds, solid backup from Majak , ( who could still play a part), and a raft of blokes who were gifted games last year who might be stiffer than a Subteranean Codpiece in an Ice Age trying to get a Gig!!

GO DEES!

Edited April 7, 2021 by picket fence

[Mel Bourne 3,672]

On 4/6/2021 at 6:18 PM, Dr.D said:

getting way ahead of ourselves. we looked average against the dockers and average against gws until the last 15 mins. 

 

Nah, we’re definitely a better team this year. Skills are silkier. Players look in tremendous physical shape. Just look at the difference in somebody like Jayden Hunt for example. A few stories like that across the team. But I’m in agreement that it’s far too early to make any big calls.