Brilliant on the weekend. 4 time All Australian. I can't think of anyone better even Flower and Barassi PS: I rarely saw Flower and I never saw Barassi

No

The cult of recency. Best player in the last ten years? Arguably. Twenty? Possibly. One hundred and twenty? Doubtful.

Maybe on par with Neitz. 

Werridee had you seen Flower, you would know. Max is very good, Robbie was magnificent, Barrasi was irresistible.

Best since Neitz... that standing might not last long though given what Trac looks like he is capable of.

Big call to say best player

Perhaps the best player of the 21st century thus far. AA selections would suggest such.

 or maybe he's the best ruckman we've ever had.

Edited February 26, 20214 yr by Better days ahead
what am i talking about. Jim Stynes is the best ruckman we've ever had

Well the jury is out on our best player again and Max's form today was a level above last year BECAUSE he tapped far better to our mids and he saved the game early on then won it for us With his goals and size up forward.

Thst worked well today and with Lever intercepting at his best he could do both.If that can be the bench mark for both then we are in good hands in the air providing 

(1) Everyone doesn't all fly together and let the crumbers run out the back For a walk in goal which happened at least twice.

(2) Nev Jatta was ok today pace wise but he does fly too often with the talls hence this happens 

.(3) That is why I believe Lockhart should play as an old back pocket minding a small and staying down for the ball from dropped marks and punches from defenders. Goody needs to wake up about our weakness ageist smalls Daniels or Tippy  or any number of Tigers.

(4) Looking at Petty in the 2nd game he will play as a third tall in Round 1 1 if he is fit  enough..He is a class above Tommo who is honest and good depth plus versatile but Petty has class and appears a natural defender at CHB of FB if a change is needed Oh and he can be swapped with Tommy Mac if need be.

(5) The sync with Max (and Jacko ) and the Mids was good and near the level that we need to get the best out of all our stars on the ball.  They in turn hurt the opposition with a running kick or smart handball or tackle that stopped the Tigers run. Ooze has had an immediate effect on Clarry  he didn't waste a handball today and kicked when he could get Out on his own or run faster than his opposition. Harmes Jordon  and Sparrow all had worthwhile days which shows  great  promise for our depth  and  no one looked out of their class any where on the ground

(6) we had a pretty even game with 3 Rd quarter a standout with the wind and 2 Nd a struggle early but worked hard to get back in the last 10 mid before the half time. We ran out the game well in the last quarter sort of against the breeze. Our end to end run scored 2 goals as well so our fitness stood up all day.

Coaches would   be pleased tonight that a lot looked improved was solid all day and at a quicker pace which will be even more speedy when  Kossie and Jack V return.

Plenty of ticks all round Dees.

It's an interesting debate - one of your better posts Werridee, although I feel a team is coming from you!

There is now a big four of the post-war era - Barassi, Flower, Garry (two Rs) Lyon and Gawny.

I was too young to see Barass play - but his infuence on our ability to win games is undoubted. From the replays I've seen, he certainly wasn't our most skilled player - courage and leadership being his mantra.

Flower was skills and poise personified but needed a strong, tough team around him to really bring out those virtues which he never had until his final year of 1987 - he almost always was in the best when he played for the Vics though.

People underestimate Garry Lyon. He was such a clever, smooth mover who was thrown into defence late by Swooper Northey to save games and 9 times out of 10 he did just that. He was magic in his early 20s, but dodgy hamstrings cost him when he should have been the most dominant.

And now we have Gawny. How do you rate our best mark in history against the other three who were dominant at ground level as well. Is he overrated because he only plays one position and he's the best we've had in it? I think most people now realise Gawny influence is right across the ground. To me he's gone past Dean Cox as the best tap man of the 21st century and I reckon a flag will take him past Simon Madden as the best ruckman ever. 

Still behind Stynes & Ditterich IMHO but is likely to go past them shortly.

1 hour ago, WERRIDEE said:

Brilliant on the weekend. 4 time All Australian. I can't think of anyone better even Flower and Barassi PS: I rarely saw Flower and I never saw Barassi

Gawn joins Robbie, Ronald Dale rather than exceeds them. There are others, different times, different games, different contributions across the history of the MFC who also served us with exceptional talents and drive. The variations are such that true ranking comparisons cannot be accurate, it is just a mantle upon which we acknowledge some of our players as 'special'. I agree that Gawn has a slot on that shelf, to share wholeheartedly and deservedly.

1 hour ago, The Jackson 6 said:

Best since Neitz... that standing might not last long though given what Trac looks like he is capable of.

best since Neitz sure but 10x the player Neitz was. Neita was great don't get me wrong but he'd go missing often.

Since I've been supporting 1990 I'd say he's the best player we've had.

14 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Gawn joins Robbie, Ronald Dale rather than exceeds them. There are others, different times, different games, different contributions across the history of the MFC who also served us with exceptional talents and drive. The variations are such that true ranking comparisons cannot be accurate, it is just a mantle upon which we acknowledge some of our players as 'special'. I agree that Gawn has a slot on that shelf, to share wholeheartedly and deservedly.

Very well put 56. 

42 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

It's an interesting debate - one of your better posts Werridee, although I feel a team is coming from you!

There is now a big four of the post-war era - Barassi, Flower, Garry (two Rs) Lyon and Gawny.

I was too young to see Barass play - but his infuence on our ability to win games is undoubted. From the replays I've seen, he certainly wasn't our most skilled player - courage and leadership being his mantra.

Flower was skills and poise personified but needed a strong, tough team around him to really bring out those virtues which he never had until his final year of 1987 - he almost always was in the best when he played for the Vics though.

People underestimate Garry Lyon. He was such a clever, smooth mover who was thrown into defence late by Swooper Northey to save games and 9 times out of 10 he did just that. He was magic in his early 20s, but dodgy hamstrings cost him when he should have been the most dominant.

And now we have Gawny. How do you rate our best mark in history against the other three who were dominant at ground level as well. Is he overrated because he only plays one position and he's the best we've had in it? I think most people now realise Gawny influence is right across the ground. To me he's gone past Dean Cox as the best tap man of the 21st century and I reckon a flag will take him past Simon Madden as the best ruckman ever. 

Maddens forward craft puts him ahead I believe but Maxy is still on the bus charging the giants down. A flag or two and consistent big game and Finals wins will propel his AFL status but he is one of about 8/10 real greats at the Dees and the best this century so far.

Trac and  Clarry are going to have some say in both camps ( Best player ever OR  best this century).If they play for a decade or more. ( Gerard Healey  is not a Dee great as he only did it for 5 years) 

Today Zthru both were what we want every game from them midfield grunt Quick and neat disposal and running a full 10/15m when space allows AND hitting the scoreboard. Guess who helps make them great Maxy of course!!! 

Players can only be judged in their respective eras.

Robbie was many classes above any Melbourne contemporaries and several classes above any other VFL player from his era.

None of Maxie, Neita, Garry or RDB, brilliant as they were,  would ever be considered to be that far above their contemporaries in the VFL/AFL. They were as good as the best but not that much better.

Robbie was that much better. No debate.

 

Does Gawn get downgraded because of his slow start? It's really only the second half of his career which has been majestic. Flower, on the other hand, was superb for his whole career. I'm too young (don't get to say that very often these days) to remember Barassi, but I suspect he was a gun from day 1.

I didn't see Barassi play.

However, I saw plenty of Robbie's matches. In terms of best ever (or more accurately since 1970 when I took an interest),  best player/s are:

1. Robbie 
2. daylight 

 

 

Tricky question as I never saw Barassi either. Stynes has to be up there in this conversation somewhere surely. Also if you ignore the  number of games played and just talk about " best players" Then Schwartz at his peak and even Jakovich come into my thinking. So I think it has to be best players who played over 150 games? 

As others have mentioned  its difficult to rate players like Flower, Barassi, Lyon, Stynes and  Gawny against each other,  but in terms of what Ive actually seen Flower was just a class ahead of anyone else. 

 Its probably enough to note  that Gawn now has a place in this conversation. 

Robbie flower by a country mile.

Max is close to the best ruckman we have had. Great player. So was Stynes.

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Does Gawn get downgraded because of his slow start? It's really only the second half of his career which has been majestic. Flower, on the other hand, was superb for his whole career. I'm too young (don't get to say that very often these days) to remember Barassi, but I suspect he was a gun from day 1.

Slow start He shouldn't be penalised because he didn't play till about2015  because of injury and probably smoking too Much dhurri etc. 

Judge  him from that day at Geelong he came of age. That's 97 % of his career! 

No, love him dearly, but Jeff White was a match winner too, Stynes etc, Gawn still has work to do, would be totally happy if I have to change opinion in 5 years.

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Does Gawn get downgraded because of his slow start? It's really only the second half of his career which has been majestic. Flower, on the other hand, was superb for his whole career. I'm too young (don't get to say that very often these days) to remember Barassi, but I suspect he was a gun from day 1.

Barassi was a magnificent player BUT he wasn't in his early games. Played as a forward but flew for the ball too early and was dropped back to the twos at least twice. Melbourne tried an experiment here by playing him as a ruck rover( new concept). He was brilliant in this new role and promoted back to the firsts. History tells us the rest. True champion.

Mueller anyone?

How about the 55-60 era? Might have been a few semi decent players going around then.

He's no Cale Morton but he'll do.