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Jack Viney Restricted Free Agent



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8 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

OK. Viney does multiple roles, and it varied depending on who is in the centre with him. Here is one against St Kilda, without Oliver. It's Viney, Brayshaw and Petracca.

image.thumb.png.714ab7d1fc591e1e1036a8a9965438e2.png

This is set up for Petracca to have the who far side open to him. Viney blocks out Steele, Brayshaw gets inside Jones to block and Petracca beats Ross and gets to the far side with space. This is shown below:

image.thumb.png.15ccd6576b280cb54e7dd65775a3db65.png

Unfortunately the play breaks down because Brayshaw can't get inside Jones to block him out, so Jones gets the ball before it gets to Petracca. Viney, on the other hand, gets Steele out of position and is therefor a non-factor in the stoppage. This is shown below.

image.thumb.png.6bdca4893da91a967c0829baa74676f5.png

I show this as an example of how important these roles are in stoppages.

Here is another, with the play designed for Oliver. Oliver is to beat Shiel to the tap to the far side, with Viney blocking out Merrett to create space and Melksham playing purely defensively on Stringer (near side).

image.png.c8bbee442d6f497d15df038cedcf635c.png

Essentially:

image.png.7abe7abc971eb6c7cba88c5a92002889.png

Merrett give Viney the slip early, which puts the play in jeopardy.

image.png.cd9e79149ae460db9896752dd55efdf0.png

But Viney is able to recover to win body position to push Merrett into the contest, which keeps the play alive.

image.png.e277bc3bc27d1d1ec221ab83bdab2372.png

Oliver gets a little hold from Shiel, but because Viney has done his job so well on Merrett he's now clear and able to recover the ball to win the clearance.

image.png.e0e56de54a34109354a19dfa4c9083cd.png

Around the ground, Viney does the same on good players. Here the tap is for Oliver, with Crouch defending him. Brayshaw blocks the inside exit and AVB the defensive exit (we're kicking left). Viney is trusted one on one with their best player, Rory Laird.

image.png.27733b95cba7318d3e9140e8822cd61c.png

Viney beats Laird for position and, when there's no effective tap from either Gawn or O'Reilly, Viney is able to win the clearance off the back of his good defensive body work. 

image.png.30ec5c9d8cfaf9571201150b1f194a61.png

Now he's one with Petracca on Laird and Brayshaw on Crouch. It's a weird one because the play breaks down with a dodgy bounce. The tap ends up going forwards to no-man's land. But the important thing is the defence at the stoppage. 

image.png.53f21eacb7ac7f01ab5603de0c7e41de.png

Crouch edges Brayshaw off the ball and Petracca is lost with the clever Laird, but Viney recovers really quickly from the odd tap and gets himself between the ball and Keays, who isn't able to have any influence on the play. 

image.png.bec7ba0524ad490857738ce8ce86ea5c.png

The first possession is won by Crouch and the clearance by Laird. It's a comfortable clearance in the end and Laird wanders through untouched. Keays is shut out quickly by Viney. Brayshaw and Petracca are non-entities once beaten, but Viney is able to do his role so consistently.

image.png.237eacc4af5f6003e461170e364c0fa3.png

 

This happens over and over again. Viney is able to kill opposition clearances and also win his own off the back of this. He doesn't have the play designed for him as often as the attacking mids, but he can do it well if there is another defensive midfielder in the stoppage. For example, this stoppage involves Vandenberg. Viney is on Shiel (left) whilst AVB is blocking Merrett and Oliver is being defended. 

image.png.c13026eebe0fbcf98bf8e05ac1b3edda.png

Shiel is the opposition's best midfielder, but Viney is so good at winning the body battle in stoppages that the play can confidently predict he wins body position for the surprise attack. Oliver's man only has eyes for him, so Oliver just has to stay out of the way of Viney, whilst AVB just blocks Merrett away. The tap goes to the far side, which is easy to do when the opposition has Stewart in the ruck.

image.png.3b8232b9f9e99cf5a73763776eba1a8b.png

It's an easy clearance in the end because of a terrible setup by Essendon. But the whole play depends on Viney winning body position, which he does. Usually he does it defensively for other players, but he can do it himself so reliably that sometimes they design plays for it. He has the quality to play both attacking and defensive.

The defensive midfielder is under-appreciated. Brayshaw has been given this responsibility at times, but he just doesn't do it to the level of Viney. You can see that, since Brayshaw went down late in the year, Melksham has been sent into the middle to play defensively. Oliver can do it at times, but he's a target man more often than not whilst Viney creates the space he can use. When Petracca is in there the ball is almost always going to him. Oliver is a rounded midfield but he doesn't play as a defensively minded stoppage midfielder like Viney. Viney is so important because he's so much better than the next best player in his role (Brayshaw, AVB and Melksham), and one of the best at it in the league. Plus, on top of that, he can be used offensively when required. There's a reason why a range of coaches love him every single year, but his style means that it doesn't always get its way on to the stats sheet.

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Post of the year, Bob. What an absolute ripper. 

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OK. Viney does multiple roles, and it varied depending on who is in the centre with him. Here is one against St Kilda, without Oliver. It's Viney, Brayshaw and Petracca. This is set up for

This is closest I could find:        

Can't specifically say to much but my information comes from someone employed by the club. I don't post everything i'm told, but this will be announced in due course so i'm coming forth now. 

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8 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

OK. Viney does multiple roles, and it varied depending on who is in the centre with him. Here is one against St Kilda, without Oliver. It's Viney, Brayshaw and Petracca.

image.thumb.png.714ab7d1fc591e1e1036a8a9965438e2.png

This is set up for Petracca to have the who far side open to him. Viney blocks out Steele, Brayshaw gets inside Jones to block and Petracca beats Ross and gets to the far side with space. This is shown below:

image.thumb.png.15ccd6576b280cb54e7dd65775a3db65.png

Unfortunately the play breaks down because Brayshaw can't get inside Jones to block him out, so Jones gets the ball before it gets to Petracca. Viney, on the other hand, gets Steele out of position and is therefor a non-factor in the stoppage. This is shown below.

image.thumb.png.6bdca4893da91a967c0829baa74676f5.png

I show this as an example of how important these roles are in stoppages.

Here is another, with the play designed for Oliver. Oliver is to beat Shiel to the tap to the far side, with Viney blocking out Merrett to create space and Melksham playing purely defensively on Stringer (near side).

image.png.c8bbee442d6f497d15df038cedcf635c.png

Essentially:

image.png.7abe7abc971eb6c7cba88c5a92002889.png

Merrett give Viney the slip early, which puts the play in jeopardy.

image.png.cd9e79149ae460db9896752dd55efdf0.png

But Viney is able to recover to win body position to push Merrett into the contest, which keeps the play alive.

image.png.e277bc3bc27d1d1ec221ab83bdab2372.png

Oliver gets a little hold from Shiel, but because Viney has done his job so well on Merrett he's now clear and able to recover the ball to win the clearance.

image.png.e0e56de54a34109354a19dfa4c9083cd.png

Around the ground, Viney does the same on good players. Here the tap is for Oliver, with Crouch defending him. Brayshaw blocks the inside exit and AVB the defensive exit (we're kicking left). Viney is trusted one on one with their best player, Rory Laird.

image.png.27733b95cba7318d3e9140e8822cd61c.png

Viney beats Laird for position and, when there's no effective tap from either Gawn or O'Reilly, Viney is able to win the clearance off the back of his good defensive body work. 

image.png.30ec5c9d8cfaf9571201150b1f194a61.png

Now he's one with Petracca on Laird and Brayshaw on Crouch. It's a weird one because the play breaks down with a dodgy bounce. The tap ends up going forwards to no-man's land. But the important thing is the defence at the stoppage. 

image.png.53f21eacb7ac7f01ab5603de0c7e41de.png

Crouch edges Brayshaw off the ball and Petracca is lost with the clever Laird, but Viney recovers really quickly from the odd tap and gets himself between the ball and Keays, who isn't able to have any influence on the play. 

image.png.bec7ba0524ad490857738ce8ce86ea5c.png

The first possession is won by Crouch and the clearance by Laird. It's a comfortable clearance in the end and Laird wanders through untouched. Keays is shut out quickly by Viney. Brayshaw and Petracca are non-entities once beaten, but Viney is able to do his role so consistently.

image.png.237eacc4af5f6003e461170e364c0fa3.png

 

This happens over and over again. Viney is able to kill opposition clearances and also win his own off the back of this. He doesn't have the play designed for him as often as the attacking mids, but he can do it well if there is another defensive midfielder in the stoppage. For example, this stoppage involves Vandenberg. Viney is on Shiel (left) whilst AVB is blocking Merrett and Oliver is being defended. 

image.png.c13026eebe0fbcf98bf8e05ac1b3edda.png

Shiel is the opposition's best midfielder, but Viney is so good at winning the body battle in stoppages that the play can confidently predict he wins body position for the surprise attack. Oliver's man only has eyes for him, so Oliver just has to stay out of the way of Viney, whilst AVB just blocks Merrett away. The tap goes to the far side, which is easy to do when the opposition has Stewart in the ruck.

image.png.3b8232b9f9e99cf5a73763776eba1a8b.png

It's an easy clearance in the end because of a terrible setup by Essendon. But the whole play depends on Viney winning body position, which he does. Usually he does it defensively for other players, but he can do it himself so reliably that sometimes they design plays for it. He has the quality to play both attacking and defensive.

The defensive midfielder is under-appreciated. Brayshaw has been given this responsibility at times, but he just doesn't do it to the level of Viney. You can see that, since Brayshaw went down late in the year, Melksham has been sent into the middle to play defensively. Oliver can do it at times, but he's a target man more often than not whilst Viney creates the space he can use. When Petracca is in there the ball is almost always going to him. Oliver is a rounded midfield but he doesn't play as a defensively minded stoppage midfielder like Viney. Viney is so important because he's so much better than the next best player in his role (Brayshaw, AVB and Melksham), and one of the best at it in the league. Plus, on top of that, he can be used offensively when required. There's a reason why a range of coaches love him every single year, but his style means that it doesn't always get its way on to the stats sheet.

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This is such a good post! Cheers!

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1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

Post of the year, Bob. What an absolute ripper. 

IF it suits your narrative that we must keep Jack.   He probably does more stupid things within games than good from what i see.  Could show hundreds if not thousands of dumb things he still does at 26 YO.  You could scroll through any game to find examples of this.  He plays like his old man but few inches smaller.  Todd also was a butcher with ball in hand.  Viney name means a lot to Melbourne supporters but i doubt he will ever drag us to being a good team when he is one of our onballers.  We will continue to play like under 12's while he is in the middle. Tough, uncompromising but very dumb footballer with ball in hand.

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8 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

OK. Viney does multiple roles, and it varied depending on who is in the centre with him. Here is one against St Kilda, without Oliver. It's Viney, Brayshaw and Petracca.

image.thumb.png.714ab7d1fc591e1e1036a8a9965438e2.png

This is set up for Petracca to have the who far side open to him. Viney blocks out Steele, Brayshaw gets inside Jones to block and Petracca beats Ross and gets to the far side with space. This is shown below:

image.thumb.png.15ccd6576b280cb54e7dd65775a3db65.png

Unfortunately the play breaks down because Brayshaw can't get inside Jones to block him out, so Jones gets the ball before it gets to Petracca. Viney, on the other hand, gets Steele out of position and is therefor a non-factor in the stoppage. This is shown below.

image.thumb.png.6bdca4893da91a967c0829baa74676f5.png

I show this as an example of how important these roles are in stoppages.

Here is another, with the play designed for Oliver. Oliver is to beat Shiel to the tap to the far side, with Viney blocking out Merrett to create space and Melksham playing purely defensively on Stringer (near side).

image.png.c8bbee442d6f497d15df038cedcf635c.png

Essentially:

image.png.7abe7abc971eb6c7cba88c5a92002889.png

Merrett give Viney the slip early, which puts the play in jeopardy.

image.png.cd9e79149ae460db9896752dd55efdf0.png

But Viney is able to recover to win body position to push Merrett into the contest, which keeps the play alive.

image.png.e277bc3bc27d1d1ec221ab83bdab2372.png

Oliver gets a little hold from Shiel, but because Viney has done his job so well on Merrett he's now clear and able to recover the ball to win the clearance.

image.png.e0e56de54a34109354a19dfa4c9083cd.png

Around the ground, Viney does the same on good players. Here the tap is for Oliver, with Crouch defending him. Brayshaw blocks the inside exit and AVB the defensive exit (we're kicking left). Viney is trusted one on one with their best player, Rory Laird.

image.png.27733b95cba7318d3e9140e8822cd61c.png

Viney beats Laird for position and, when there's no effective tap from either Gawn or O'Reilly, Viney is able to win the clearance off the back of his good defensive body work. 

image.png.30ec5c9d8cfaf9571201150b1f194a61.png

Now he's one with Petracca on Laird and Brayshaw on Crouch. It's a weird one because the play breaks down with a dodgy bounce. The tap ends up going forwards to no-man's land. But the important thing is the defence at the stoppage. 

image.png.53f21eacb7ac7f01ab5603de0c7e41de.png

Crouch edges Brayshaw off the ball and Petracca is lost with the clever Laird, but Viney recovers really quickly from the odd tap and gets himself between the ball and Keays, who isn't able to have any influence on the play. 

image.png.bec7ba0524ad490857738ce8ce86ea5c.png

The first possession is won by Crouch and the clearance by Laird. It's a comfortable clearance in the end and Laird wanders through untouched. Keays is shut out quickly by Viney. Brayshaw and Petracca are non-entities once beaten, but Viney is able to do his role so consistently.

image.png.237eacc4af5f6003e461170e364c0fa3.png

 

This happens over and over again. Viney is able to kill opposition clearances and also win his own off the back of this. He doesn't have the play designed for him as often as the attacking mids, but he can do it well if there is another defensive midfielder in the stoppage. For example, this stoppage involves Vandenberg. Viney is on Shiel (left) whilst AVB is blocking Merrett and Oliver is being defended. 

image.png.c13026eebe0fbcf98bf8e05ac1b3edda.png

Shiel is the opposition's best midfielder, but Viney is so good at winning the body battle in stoppages that the play can confidently predict he wins body position for the surprise attack. Oliver's man only has eyes for him, so Oliver just has to stay out of the way of Viney, whilst AVB just blocks Merrett away. The tap goes to the far side, which is easy to do when the opposition has Stewart in the ruck.

image.png.3b8232b9f9e99cf5a73763776eba1a8b.png

It's an easy clearance in the end because of a terrible setup by Essendon. But the whole play depends on Viney winning body position, which he does. Usually he does it defensively for other players, but he can do it himself so reliably that sometimes they design plays for it. He has the quality to play both attacking and defensive.

The defensive midfielder is under-appreciated. Brayshaw has been given this responsibility at times, but he just doesn't do it to the level of Viney. You can see that, since Brayshaw went down late in the year, Melksham has been sent into the middle to play defensively. Oliver can do it at times, but he's a target man more often than not whilst Viney creates the space he can use. When Petracca is in there the ball is almost always going to him. Oliver is a rounded midfield but he doesn't play as a defensively minded stoppage midfielder like Viney. Viney is so important because he's so much better than the next best player in his role (Brayshaw, AVB and Melksham), and one of the best at it in the league. Plus, on top of that, he can be used offensively when required. There's a reason why a range of coaches love him every single year, but his style means that it doesn't always get its way on to the stats sheet.

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That is great stuff, well done.

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Appreciate the analysis Axis of Bob. Very clear explanation of the roles of each of our mids. Makes me value Viney even more.

If he does indeed choose to leave, I wonder if that might be tainted by the stresses of hub life in Qld with a newborn first child. He mentioned this in his B&F speech. Could well be a non issue, and obviously I'm just speculating, but it wouldn't be ideal separated from wider family at that time. Hopefully he takes the time in familiar surrounds back in Melbourne to think carefully and stay with us

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21 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

IF it suits your narrative that we must keep Jack.   He probably does more stupid things within games than good from what i see.  Could show hundreds if not thousands of dumb things he still does at 26 YO.  You could scroll through any game to find examples of this.  He plays like his old man but few inches smaller.  Todd also was a butcher with ball in hand.  Viney name means a lot to Melbourne supporters but i doubt he will ever drag us to being a good team when he is one of our onballers.  We will continue to play like under 12's while he is in the middle. Tough, uncompromising but very dumb footballer with ball in hand.

Over to you to pull that info together 

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40 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Post of the year, Bob. What an absolute ripper. 

Yep, seconded. That gives me a better appreciation for this detail (which I admit I never pay attention to, nor have been inclined to)
ThanksAOB!

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I will say that Viney's abilities inmaking the stoppages function is only something that I've recently developed an appreciation for. I had a vague idea of what Viney was doing and also though that his play may have been cannibalising the play of the other midfielders, but his high B&F placing made me do a double take and question why the coaches rated him so much more highly than me/us (comfortably ahead of Oliver). It was only then that I went back to have a good look at the stoppages to see what exactly the players were doing (which is what the coaches would do) and how well each of them performed their role in each stoppage. It became pretty obvious that Viney was the best at his role and had a greater variety of roles depending who was in the stoppage with him, plus he was able to recover the fastest once the play broke down to defend.  

Edited by Axis of Bob
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33 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

Top shelf analysis from Axis of Bob makes it crystal clear why other teams; the entire AFL, value Jack Viney more than the so-called 'supporters' who are constant critics on Demonland.

Absolutely. The 'supporters' clearly have to find fault in anything to make them forget about their own inadequacies. Sad really.

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On 9/24/2020 at 6:34 PM, Dr.D said:

I like Jack Viney but I'm so sick of yelling 'GET RID OF IT!!!' every single time he has the ball. He has no concept of space, taking the easy option or just how detrimental a holding the ball decision can be. He really needs to work hard on this, all bloody summer, and just give the easy option instead of barging through. it achieves nothing. id be happy to off load him if he continues to do it next season. patience is wearing very thin.

I hear what your saying, but on the other hand we can't have a team of players that want to instantly get rid of the footy like a hot potato every time they touch it. Jack's bullocking certainly has its place. 

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I find it interesting that so many want to move on a a player who is clearly important to teh team and has many great assets as well as some weaknesses why we ant to get rid of good players i dont know.. there should be a page on Melksham.

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52 minutes ago, Deetective Sgt. Taggert said:

Over to you to pull that info together 

I watch every Demon game twice.  i could pull many examples from each game but it is not my technical expertise to pull out screen shots to illustrate this.  Seems many here think we will always be better with Jack in the team leading the charge.  My eyes tell me otherwise all too frequently.  He is not a spud by any means but has and will continue to be a very limited onballer.  If he was Cripps size he would be scary with his attributes but i don't think he is due for growth spurt.  At 26 i don't believe he will get better.  His younger years i could accept his limitations, he is just not developing into anything but an average midfielder.  

*The fact that he has come so high on our B+F so often is really a reflection of MFC, we been bad for most of his years.  It is not that Jack is THIS good and we should keep him at any costs.  No anti Jack whatsoever.   Just realised we are very limited while he commands major midfield time, and i would not pay him as small pressure forward, he just does not show enough smarts.

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1 hour ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

IF it suits your narrative that we must keep Jack.   He probably does more stupid things within games than good from what i see.  Could show hundreds if not thousands of dumb things he still does at 26 YO.  You could scroll through any game to find examples of this.  He plays like his old man but few inches smaller.  Todd also was a butcher with ball in hand.  Viney name means a lot to Melbourne supporters but i doubt he will ever drag us to being a good team when he is one of our onballers.  We will continue to play like under 12's while he is in the middle. Tough, uncompromising but very dumb footballer with ball in hand.

Fits the narrative? 

Rubbish. His post, regardless of your thoughts on Viney, is well thought out and researched. It's one of the reasons this site can be terrific as there are those out there who will give some really in depth though, backed up by facts, to their posts. 

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1 hour ago, Clintosaurus said:

Absolutely. The 'supporters' clearly have to find fault in anything to make them forget about their own inadequacies. Sad really.

But but I am perfect so that cannot be me. Phew!!!!

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2 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

So you found one from last season?

So your biggest issue with this whole thing is that the specific footage that I used for a joke on an internet forum during the offseason was from 2019 instead of 2020?

OK, you got me. I concede.

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3 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

So your biggest issue with this whole thing is that the specific footage that I used for a joke on an internet forum during the offseason was from 2019 instead of 2020?

OK, you got me. I concede.

You don’t have to concede everything, but your initial point was well made. I think the issue with JV is not at centre bounces, where he excels most of the time, but rather his decision making at stoppages around the ground and in general play. His willingness to step inside to initiate contact and break tackles is the hindrance in his game. Would you disagree with that ??

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Great post @Axis of Bob

I think we all can be guilty of concentrating too much on a player's limitations and not their strengths.

Out of interest, in doing this research did you ascertain why (or form any conclusion) we were often so poor at clearances despite having the dominant tap ruckman ?  It didn't always matter, as we often won games, but lost the clearances, including centre clearances.  And it was despite having the number clearance player for the year - Oliver.

Either Max wasn't using it correctly, or one or two of those stoppage mids were getting beaten.

Anyway, don't want to create more work for you, it's just whether you'd formed a view.

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21 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Fits the narrative? 

Rubbish. His post, regardless of your thoughts on Viney, is well thought out and researched. It's one of the reasons this site can be terrific as there are those out there who will give some really in depth though, backed up by facts, to their posts. 

Yeah it fits the narrative of people who think Jack is great.  I agree it is well thought out and researched though.  SO if it were pointing to all his flaws would it still be great for you? i Doubt it.

i am sure he had to search very hard to find the positive examples he did show.  Watch any game we play and there are so many more dubious moments Jack is involved in.  Giving 3 or 4 examples of Jack doing the right thing does not make me blind to all the dumb stuff he does during the course of every game he plays.  

BTW i highlighted your post but i could have chosen half a dozen others who just seems to think Jack can do no wrong, definitely not personal.  I think he is an interesting topic to discuss, for better, and/or worse.  There are many other players on our list that probably deserve more scrutiny.  FA has changed the way teams can attract or lose players.  I would not be dancing in the streets if he were to stay or go...i do find it enticing to think of Petracca/Oliver working with a more rounded onballer though.  We feel very predictable with JV in the guts, other teams onball brigade would feel the same i reckon.

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26 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

You don’t have to concede everything, but your initial point was well made. I think the issue with JV is not at centre bounces, where he excels most of the time, but rather his decision making at stoppages around the ground and in general play. His willingness to step inside to initiate contact and break tackles is the hindrance in his game. Would you disagree with that ??

I think his style of play is often an important difference in our midfield. It's so hard to create scoring opportunities in the modern game that you need players that can beat a tackle to create space where there is none. He's not a great kick, quite one sided, and not a 'finesse' player but they would be nice add ons to his game rather than important to his role. I suppose I'd like Max Gawn to be a better crumber too, but it's not that important to his role.

He's not a perfect midfielder but he's an incredibly good one, not just for the times he has the ball but especially for the times he doesn't have the ball. He's a 'glue guy' in the stoppages, that makes all the others play better. If you're only looking at what happens when he gets the ball then you'll never see his value. He is often willing to take a risk to score, which is important because scoring is so difficult.

Here are some interesting stats for Viney this year (AFL wide rankings) that bear this out (footywire.com):

image.thumb.png.edb9a9a9807669fb3d4484fec0b9b057.png
I've marked the most interesting bits: Clearances. Turnovers. Inside 50s. Scores.

Excellent at winning contested footy and clearances. Ordinary ball user. The way he plays results in us scoring goals. 

He's a player who will annoy those who focus on shortcomings because he makes mistakes and humans, being loss averse, notice bad stuff more than they notice good stuff. But his mistakes are outweighed by his unique abilities, including winning one on one contests in stoppages, defense in stoppages (and contests) and his ability to beat an opposition defender and therefor punch a hole the opposition's team defence. 

Compare that to the other players that could play that role (AVB, Melksham, Sparrow ....) and he becomes even more important.

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10 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

I think his style of play is often an important difference in our midfield. It's so hard to create scoring opportunities in the modern game that you need players that can beat a tackle to create space where there is none. He's not a great kick, quite one sided, and not a 'finesse' player but they would be nice add ons to his game rather than important to his role. I suppose I'd like Max Gawn to be a better crumber too, but it's not that important to his role.

He's not a perfect midfielder but he's an incredibly good one, not just for the times he has the ball but especially for the times he doesn't have the ball. He's a 'glue guy' in the stoppages, that makes all the others play better. If you're only looking at what happens when he gets the ball then you'll never see his value. He is often willing to take a risk to score, which is important because scoring is so difficult.

Here are some interesting stats for Viney this year (AFL wide rankings) that bear this out (footywire.com):

image.thumb.png.edb9a9a9807669fb3d4484fec0b9b057.png
I've marked the most interesting bits: Clearances. Turnovers. Inside 50s. Scores.

Excellent at winning contested footy and clearances. Ordinary ball user. The way he plays results in us scoring goals. 

He's a player who will annoy those who focus on shortcomings because he makes mistakes and humans, being loss averse, notice bad stuff more than they notice good stuff. But his mistakes are outweighed by his unique abilities, including winning one on one contests in stoppages, defense in stoppages (and contests) and his ability to beat an opposition defender and therefor punch a hole the opposition's team defence. 

Compare that to the other players that could play that role (AVB, Melksham, Sparrow ....) and he becomes even more important.

No issue with all you’ve posted. However, the issue is, he has had years to work on his shortcomings and by all reports I’ve heard, does not take onboard feedback. That is an area he needs to improve. Accepting that he is not perfect and work on areas of his game. Perhaps he is not coachable 

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3 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

The longer this takes the more chance Jack Viney heads off to Geelong.  He is clearly not our best onballer and is quite limited for a 26 YO who should be at his peak.  I think Melbourne would be silly to offer him any more then 3 years.  Geelong will offer 4 and likely get him.  So many posters think he needs to be a small pressure forward...would you want to pay 600k+ for him to learn this role?  I just don't see his value and he will still have his limitations, see ball get ball type, stuffing up structures, he does not do the team things innately.  Basically play a kossie role but with no where near the amount of natural ability.  I love Jack, but think much like Jones before him he does not show true leadership.  He just wants to crash in harder, which is admirable but so often he is crashing into a player who was in over the ball already.  I really think without him being automatic selection in the midfield we would be much better off with a smart outside player.  There would be plenty available in the 500-700k mark that would make a real difference to our team instantly.  We can keep Jack and know exactly what we are going to get, toughness/hardness/not much footy smarts.  He is 26, has currency, and i think it would be far more beneficial to us to get a decent draft pick in return.  Would not be surprised at all if we told him to explore his options as we really can't afford to have both him and Harmes in the same team.

Harmes is contracted for years otherwise we would be trying to offload him too.  We get what we can for Jack and wish him the best.  With new faces brings hope.  I have no faith that JV will ever improve with us, it is not like he is suddenly going to discover footy IQ and make better decisions.

He's our 3rd midfielder behind Clarry and Trac and a very good one at that he doesn't need to be a forward pocket. He is just fine the way he is. The one that has to get more creative is Brayshaw.

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1 minute ago, WERRIDEE said:

He's our 3rd midfielder behind Clarry and Trac and a very good one at that he doesn't need to be a forward pocket. He is just fine the way he is. The one that has to get more creative is Brayshaw.

Brayshaw can only get creative when he gets a chance to play midfield.  I think you would find Viney has had a lot more opportunity?  Either way our 3rd best mid is very limited and that is picking either of those 2 guys.  If you could put Viney heart/effort into Brayshaw you would have quite the footballer though!  Both are limited in the roles they play imo.

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