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JMDemon

Jack Viney Restricted Free Agent

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With the current plight of the club , no first round draft pick , not enough skills, not enough composure.  

If offers come for Viney as a free agent do we let him go ? 

If we were guaranteed a 1st round compensation pick after our original pick then I think we almost have to, particularly if do finish bottom four.

This could give us options to either trade for or draft a midfielder with better skills/ composure. 

At the moment we don't have much currency trade or draft pick wise and i think as much as i love his hardness maybe Jack is expendable  

 

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A first round pick will be more of a guessing game this year.

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Sadly we would have to think about it.. I love Jack, he is a goer and he has been a captain in more of our successful times than any other recently. He is a Melbourne man through and through and you only have to look at out 2 finals wins just how hard, important and central he was to those wins, coming off a bad year of injury, i think people forget that. He is suffering at the moment because others are not doing their job properly, and others are suffering because Jack isnt doing his job properly, its a whirlpool of mediocrity at the moment. But who else gets us into teh first round? Does he even get us into teh first round.. maybe end of first round.. its a deep problem when you trade away a commodity like a first round pick then completely stuff the season up and potentially give away teh first pick.

Disaster and teh most Melbourne thing to do. Something will have to change, names will be offered im sure.. its going to get nasty i reckon.

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I don't know what's wrong with him.   He should be reaching the peak of his career.  He doesn't seem happy to me. I would keep him.  He may spring to life under a new coach.

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It would be a very dangerous thing to willingly let Viney go. Baby and bathwater and that. People forget how much we were crying out for his hardness, competitiveness and leadership before he arrived at the club. He's not exactly flavour of the month atm, but if we were to play a final this weekend (lol), you'd already have him penciled in as being among our best. 

Yes, our midfield has deplorable kicking skills, and Viney is probably the worst of the lot. Structurally, something clearly needs to change, but Viney is one that I'd keep.

It would make me nauseous to see him in an Essendon jumper. 

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If the Coach gets his act together, then Viney will be a gun

This is on the Coach

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If not Viney , what are our options to get back in the 1st round of the draft ?  I think we need to 

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He's my favourite player, he's also my least favourite player.

Something has to change in our midfield though, one of Viney and Brayshaw will be gone next year IMO.

 

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He's behind Oliver and Petracca in the pecking order and is not creative at all or skilled by foot.

Would have limited currency and would have to walk, otherwise a LOT of Melbourne supporters will be up in arms.

He's also got a new baby less than 2 weeks old, footy is not anyone's priority during that period

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Talking about letting him go has James McDonald written all over it, no way I'd entertain it, unless he desperately wanted out. The first game against West Coast was great, and he's got to get near to that each week, he doesn't need 30 touches. But needs to make at least 5 tackles, 5 clearances and improve his disposal efficiency by around 10%. Of all out midfielders he should be the defensive beast, not a tagger, but one who can lock the ball in or turn it into a scrap when the game is going against us. 

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33 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Talking about letting him go has James McDonald written all over it, no way I'd entertain it, unless he desperately wanted out. The first game against West Coast was great, and he's got to get near to that each week, he doesn't need 30 touches. But needs to make at least 5 tackles, 5 clearances and improve his disposal efficiency by around 10%. Of all out midfielders he should be the defensive beast, not a tagger, but one who can lock the ball in or turn it into a scrap when the game is going against us. 

I hear you but tend to disagree. jack is rover sized, albeit powerful and has been encouraged to be a beast from the day he arrived. This has been at the expense of learning and working on execution skills. He often goes for balls others should be and the others out of respect or fear of his authority stand by. He should be concentrating on playing a true rovers role and leave the bullocking to a tradional ruck rover type like petracca or more modern day type like Oliver. The traditional set up and I will stand corrected was.

Ruck  big tick

Ruck Rover  Strong versatile and moderately skilled

Rover   Fast and skilled of foot

Centreman  Skilled and Classy, roamed far and wide.

I think that model is still applicable today for the Dees. Too much of one type, regardless of balance unsettles things. I think modern recruiting terminolgy is rubbish where everyone is a midfielder. It is about point of difference.

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1 hour ago, one_demon said:

I don't know what's wrong with him.   He should be reaching the peak of his career.  He doesn't seem happy to me. I would keep him.  He may spring to life under a new coach.

i see what you did there...

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42 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

I hear you but tend to disagree. jack is rover sized, albeit powerful and has been encouraged to be a beast from the day he arrived. This has been at the expense of learning and working on execution skills. He often goes for balls others should be and the others out of respect or fear of his authority stand by. He should be concentrating on playing a true rovers role and leave the bullocking to a tradional ruck rover type like petracca or more modern day type like Oliver. The traditional set up and I will stand corrected was.

Ruck  big tick

Ruck Rover  Strong versatile and moderately skilled

Rover   Fast and skilled of foot

Centreman  Skilled and Classy, roamed far and wide.

I think that model is still applicable today for the Dees. Too much of one type, regardless of balance unsettles things. I think modern recruiting terminolgy is rubbish where everyone is a midfielder. It is about point of difference.

Those definitions are about right, although they have no meaning in the modern game. Plus Jack would be the definition of the Ruck Rover - Strong and moderately skilled, not fast and skilled of foot. Personally I think Jack is still a weapon but needs the right combination with him, as I said I think he is more a stoppage/defensive mid, I'd put Harmes and Brayshaw in that mould as well, while Oliver and Trac I'd say are more aggressive. If things are going bad for us, I'd put Viney, Harmes and Gus in the middle to try and slow down the speed of the game and when we're on top whack Oliver and Trac in the middle to try and keep the moment going. This doesn't mean they all can't do both roles, but I just see some as being more attacking minded than others.

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51 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Those definitions are about right, although they have no meaning in the modern game. Plus Jack would be the definition of the Ruck Rover - Strong and moderately skilled, not fast and skilled of foot. Personally I think Jack is still a weapon but needs the right combination with him, as I said I think he is more a stoppage/defensive mid, I'd put Harmes and Brayshaw in that mould as well, while Oliver and Trac I'd say are more aggressive. If things are going bad for us, I'd put Viney, Harmes and Gus in the middle to try and slow down the speed of the game and when we're on top whack Oliver and Trac in the middle to try and keep the moment going. This doesn't mean they all can't do both roles, but I just see some as being more attacking minded than others.

Interesting.   To me,  when watching games there appears to be no difference between a rover and ruck rover.  Don't they both sit under the ruckman and do the same thing?

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He's as confused as every other player taking the field right now.

His game against WCE was enormous and he's a B&F winner.

He's red and blue through and through (and suddenly I'm a poet).

We flick him and the fabric of the club will be further weakened.

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1 hour ago, Red and Blue realist said:

If things are going bad for us, I'd put Viney, Harmes and Gus in the middle to try and slow down the speed of the game and when we're on top whack Oliver and Trac in the middle to try and keep the moment going. This doesn't mean they all can't do both roles, but I just see some as being more attacking minded than others.

We need a linebreaking elite mid. Have needed it since as long as I can remember.

Guarantee our forwards would be much better with Whitfield or Kelly hitting them up as first option

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30 minutes ago, one_demon said:

Interesting.   To me,  when watching games there appears to be no difference between a rover and ruck rover.  Don't they both sit under the ruckman and do the same thing?

Yeah, really most positions are redundant now. Your either on the ball, forward or back. Except for the ruckman as they have a specific job.

 

14 minutes ago, BW511 said:

We need a linebreaking elite mid. Have needed it since as long as I can remember.

Guarantee our forwards would be much better with Whitfield or Kelly hitting them up as first option

Trac is that guy, but can't do it all game. Oliver has that potential I think, but needs to back himself in more to get clear and then improve his delivery. When brayshaw had that amazing run in 2018, he showed really good signs of being this as well. Viney will never be a line breaker, and that's ok, he's a pack buster then needs to dish it off to a more elite kick.

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13 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Trac is that guy, but can't do it all game. Oliver has that potential I think, but needs to back himself in more to get clear and then improve his delivery. When brayshaw had that amazing run in 2018, he showed really good signs of being this as well. Viney will never be a line breaker, and that's ok, he's a pack buster then needs to dish it off to a more elite kick.

Agree, Trac has been doing it well.

Not convinced the others can do it and it would not hurt to have more elite kicks, even if it's just to add a different dynamic around our midfield group

 

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Blokes like Jack ARE the MFC. You don’t let those bloke go. I’d pick him every single week regardless of form. 

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8 minutes ago, ProperDee said:

Blokes like Jack ARE the MFC. You don’t let those bloke go. I’d pick him every single week regardless of form. 

Agree.  I think losing the captaincy really stung him.   

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3 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Talking about letting him go has James McDonald written all over it, no way I'd entertain it, unless he desperately wanted out. The first game against West Coast was great, and he's got to get near to that each week, he doesn't need 30 touches. But needs to make at least 5 tackles, 5 clearances and improve his disposal efficiency by around 10%. Of all out midfielders he should be the defensive beast, not a tagger, but one who can lock the ball in or turn it into a scrap when the game is going against us. 

James McDonald could actually hit targets & use the ball effectively. Especially since the 666 was introduced, our mids including JV have been exposed. Love his endeavor for most of the time, however, his disposal has proven to be one of the worst & least effective in the AFL.

 I agree that he should be a tagger where for the team, he can have the most impact.

 

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3 hours ago, JMDemon said:

If not Viney , what are our options to get back in the 1st round of the draft ?  I think we need to 

How about Steven May.  Traded for pick 6 for him just 18 months ago,. surely we can still get around pick 10 for him?

Yes that was sarcasm.  Sarcasm laced with rage.

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Jack needs to tag...

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