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The good thing with Sam is that he actually performed really well in the finals, so he knows now that he can do it. 

If he had played poorly and we had just scraped through it would be very different. 

 

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1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

sage words Mr Chook

In a strange way we are in a similar position to Collingwood with Mason Cox. Like Cox, Sam W had a good finals series but the jury is still out on their long term impact on the game.

Looking forward to seeing how Sam goes as a full time member of the senior team.

I think the Weid is a much more conventional and well rounded footballer than Cox.  Whilst I must admit, I haven't see that much of Cox, he seems a bit one dimensional to me - a big tall guy who take marks and can play in the ruck, though if he can do those things well enough, he has few rivals that can match his physical advantages.  His goal kicking is pretty reliable and I'm pretty impressed with how the guy has been able to make it at the top level of a sport so completely foreign to him.

Like you say, it will be interesting to see if he can maintain his form moving forward and how the opposition might combat that.  In this respect, whilst I know we recruited Pruess with the intention of playing him as a ruck/forward,  I wounder if playing him back on Cox would be the way to go as from all reports Pruess has incredible strength and when combined with his height, he might be a good option to nullify Cox if he posed a threat to us we needed to contain.

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58 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

A 2018 record of 0 out of 6 against top 8 teams with Hogan versus 4 out of 5 when Weid replaced him tells me we might not be fooling ourselves....

Can’t wait to see what Weid does when he and TMac are the options against Carlton etc

By the end of the H&A season we'd played the final top 8 sides eight times, not 11.

So I'm guessing you looked back and noted who the top eight sides were at the time we played them.

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1 hour ago, ProDee said:

By the end of the H&A season we'd played the final top 8 sides eight times, not 11.

So I'm guessing you looked back and noted who the top eight sides were at the time we played them.

I included finals.

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2 hours ago, Watson11 said:

A 2018 record of 0 out of 6 against top 8 teams with Hogan versus 4 out of 5 when Weid replaced him tells me we might not be fooling ourselves....

Can’t wait to see what Weid does when he and TMac are the options against Carlton etc

Personally, I don’t read too much into that. It gets mentioned a lot on here about Jesse’s stats last season against the ‘top’ sides. Although they don’t read too well it’s a very small sample size in my opinion. We won more games than we lost in 2017 when Max was out with his 9-10 week hammie pop.

We are quick to forget Hogan kicked 85 goals in 2015-16 in a team that didn’t make finals and won 17 games combined. 

The Weid replaced him after our terrible loss to Sydney late in the year and the team caught fire for a few weeks. We can’t possibly say how Hogan would’ve performed had he not got injured.

I believe Weid has the attributes to become a very good footballer for the MFC. Great mark, good kick, strong and will only get stronger and many of us were absolutely thrilled at some of his performances late on. Long may it continue.

 

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On 2/15/2019 at 12:12 AM, Watson11 said:

No, he’s a natural.

 

I hadn’t seen that game at Casey.

If he can take marks strongly where he has jumped and has his arms at near peak he will be a weapon.

unfortunately, I think he is an average over head mark. With his body shape and pace he needs to be a Carey like mark and he is simply not.

unlike other posters on here i’m not going to spend the rest of his career hoping he doesn’t make it because that was my prediction. I’m desperate for him to succeed.

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11 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

 

I'm with you.  Weid has potential but has been great in 1 game & solid in maybe 3 other games - still a long, long, long way to go.

Has the turning circle of the Titanic & is poor below the knees.  Have a look at his ruck work in his last few games - its worse than horrible.

We are all hopeful but the comments on here are silly - he is a work in progress and a million miles from being a reliable key forward.

Cranky 

Are we talking about Ben Holland or Sam here? Sam is well above average for a man of his size both in terms of ‘turning circle’ and ability below his knees IMVHO at least. 

 

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5 hours ago, Watson11 said:

A 2018 record of 0 out of 6 against top 8 teams with Hogan versus 4 out of 5 when Weid replaced him tells me we might not be fooling ourselves....

Can’t wait to see what Weid does when he and TMac are the options against Carlton etc

There are lies , damn lies and statistics. I love the Weed and am excited by what he brings but Hogan’s aerobic capacity that allowed him to contribute outside the forward fifty was something special and hard to replace. Anyway he has gone and the argument is moot. 

Edited by chook fowler

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Sam is still twenty one and growing, although in a good feeder side, he will be getting lots of attention. My expectations are measured, but my hopes are high and if he is fit and mobile he will cause headaches and backaches just like Hogan......

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3 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

I hadn’t seen that game at Casey.

If he can take marks strongly where he has jumped and has his arms at near peak he will be a weapon.

unfortunately, I think he is an average over head mark. With his body shape and pace he needs to be a Carey like mark and he is simply not.

unlike other posters on here i’m not going to spend the rest of his career hoping he doesn’t make it because that was my prediction. I’m desperate for him to succeed.

In his last 5 games in 2018, including 3 finals, Weideman took 13 contested marks at an average of 2.6 per game.

Across the season as a whole that average would have placed him equal second with Jack Darling on 2.6 and just behind the best contested mark for 2018 Jeremy McGovern.

What you envisage as a weakness is one of the biggest strengths in the competition.

 

Edited by ProDee
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4 hours ago, Watson11 said:

I included finals.

Having just had another look I think Hogan was 0 from 5, not 6, as he missed the Sydney game.

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9 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Having just had another look I think Hogan was 0 from 5, not 6, as he missed the Sydney game.

I bet he wished he did miss the Sydney game.  But the vision of Isaac Heeney’s mark of the year in Q4 says he didn’t. 

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Figures don't lie and we just couldn't get our forward line working vs top sides with Jesse as spearhead.

Loved Jesse but Sam is a great kick for goal is a natural player with no worries and external pressures to sidetrack his performance.

Watson is right the week after Joges went down we solved it sndcgur the next 6 weeks started our run and looked like the team we all want the Dees to be.

OnwRds and upwards with Sam have no doubts he will succeed.

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7 hours ago, Watson11 said:

I bet he wished he did miss the Sydney game.  But the vision of Isaac Heeney’s mark of the year in Q4 says he didn’t. 

But of course.

I knew Hogan only played 20 games and that game was round 21.  The dastardly bye.

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15 hours ago, Watson11 said:

A 2018 record of 0 out of 6 against top 8 teams with Hogan versus 4 out of 5 when Weid replaced him tells me we might not be fooling ourselves....

Can’t wait to see what Weid does when he and TMac are the options against Carlton etc

Yes, l think it is a matter of team balance. Weid and Tommy seem to play more complementary roles than Weid and Jesse for some reason, and l think this will be greatly enhanced by pruess this year, with Max also playing more down forward given our additional genuine ruck strength. A combination extremely difficult to match up on l would have thought particularly in dry conditions.

Edited by Dees2014

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Interesting times ahead.

I'm not going to try and re-write history and say that Jesse wasn't a great gun for us, but I do think that our mids looked for Jesse when there were better options about. We did seem to play a little more unpredictable when he wasn't in the team, to the detriment of whoever we were playing.

So where does that leave Weed? One swallow does not a summer make, but he has the tools to be a very good player.  Good hands, good kick, and, like his grandfather, loves the tough stuff. And he is still a kid. I think that in 4 years time he will be a handful for even the best defenders.

But of course nothing is set in stone, but I do like what I see from him so far.

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12 hours ago, ProDee said:

In his last 5 games in 2018, including 3 finals, Weideman took 13 contested marks at an average of 2.6 per game.

Across the season as a whole that average would have placed him equal second with Jack Darling on 2.6 and just behind the best contested mark for 2018 Jeremy McGovern.

What you envisage as a weakness is one of the biggest strengths in the competition.

 

By comparison Hogan took 3 contested marks total in the 6 games against top 8 teams.

For those thinking I’m bagging Hogan I’m not.  I am on the record as saying Hogan could have kicked 100 goals last season if we used his once in a generation talents properly, which for a 100kg power forward is his speed and strength.  He kicked very few goals after taking marks at full speed on the lead and none that I can remember in the big games.  Hogan has no vertical jump and will never take many contested pack marks.  Weids does have a leap, and already takes pack marks.  So for our game style we are already better off.  I would however like to see us lower the eyes a lot more in 2019, and bomb it long as a last resort.  If we can do that we will be far more dangerous.

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On 2/14/2019 at 11:15 PM, nosoupforme said:

The weid can play there is no doubt  and could of faulted  in  the finals instead he played like he belonged and that is what they play for to play finals and make history  and to help win the ultimate for our great club. 

There have been some great players for other clubs that have struggled to play well in finals consistently and crumble under the pressure. .However Sam can take a mark  in a pack ,can tackle, knows how to kick a goal and is growing in confidence..  The finals was a Godsend for him and alot of good came out of it and IMO he is ready to produce his best. 

The Kid is no one hit wonder.  He is something!

We have a tendency to put a good deal of pressure on the Weed, don't we? He has taken a long time to produce what he did in the last breaths of the 2018 season, but it was most probably a sign of his readiness for greater things - improvements over time is a long-held tradition. He will have a better time across the whole season in 2019, and this is his 'well-earned privilege'.  We need him to step up with confidence this year - with a concentration on presenting  for the ball, getting the ball and putting his great kicking skills to work more regularly. Onyer, Weed - keep plugging.

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5 hours ago, Watson11 said:

By comparison Hogan took 3 contested marks total in the 6 games against top 8 teams.

For those thinking I’m bagging Hogan I’m not.  I am on the record as saying Hogan could have kicked 100 goals last season if we used his once in a generation talents properly, which for a 100kg power forward is his speed and strength.  He kicked very few goals after taking marks at full speed on the lead and none that I can remember in the big games.  Hogan has no vertical jump and will never take many contested pack marks.  Weids does have a leap, and already takes pack marks.  So for our game style we are already better off.  I would however like to see us lower the eyes a lot more in 2019, and bomb it long as a last resort.  If we can do that we will be far more dangerous.

If the intent is to mould a closely bonded team, with the players playing for one another and the coach, and doing all those team things in a game, I would choose...........................

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Golly, a tough call ... both are different players and indeed, in the final act of kicking the ball at the sticks, both are again different.

If the Weed develops his attributes, he may well be a prolific forward but I would expect him to more naturally win more ball on the ground than in the air - as a marque of the present game.

Hoges was phenomenal at times, yet had to endure the ball sailing over his head so often, or as a result of the said 'bombing', change direction and move into congestion - and yet he still took a few each week despite this handicap.

It is correct to think that the 'team' approach can be improved, particularly in the final delivery of the ball to a moving forward.

A few big monoliths in the deep forward areas would assist each of them to block, screen cleverly and rally each other into desirable 'receiving' positions thus offsetting/unsettling tall opposition defenders not fully knowing as a consequence 'where and whom' to counter and how. 

We have the smalls and runners down there already, highly capable 'on game' to crumb, create havoc and speed the ball if loose for a second or two in this chaos, some highly reliable to score rather simple and the miraculous goals in the opportunity.  I guess I really mean to articulate that my preferences would lead to the presentation of more 'organised chaos' for other teams in our mid- to deep forward zones. It could be enigmatic......

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37 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I’m not missing Jesse.

Not even remotely.

 

 RB,  I hope that you have no reason to change that view during the season.   

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1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I’m not missing Jesse.

Not even remotely.

 

You're on your tropical island honeymoon Ron. You shouldn't be missing anything from home!

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How many players can come into the side as a 21yo  and 18 games of senior footy play finals and take  the game by the scruff of the neck like the Weid did.

He took Geelong to the cleaners  and was almost as good the next game against the Hawks. Two sides we have struggled to beat since the days. Finals games are invaluable and for the Weid he flourished.

IMO l have no hesitation to back him in without a doubt. Having a good side will help him as he will have some very good talent to support. him.

 

Edited by nosoupforme
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