Trade rumours

[Diamond_Jim 12,583]

37 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Suns have made it clear they don't want picks but would rather a player instead for Ablett. Darcy Lang is the one they seem to be keen on. 

I hear they might want money as well in the form of a return of cash because his contract for the present three years (now at the end of his second) was heavily front loaded.

Wonder how that works under the salary cap. Presumably it reduces what Geelong can pay other players in 2018 but what it does for the GCS salary cap I have no idea as it is money already spent. (In reality it is of course just AFL money.)

Also begs the question of who pays the money.. the clubs or GAJ... after all the money is in his pocket at present.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/26/gold-coast-indicate-willingness-to-allow-gary-ablett-to-return-to-geelong

Ablett’s contract is believed to be heavily front-loaded, meaning the Cats may be asked to provide some level of financial compensation to secure his services.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Diamond_Jim

[DV8 2,271]

3 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

The general consensus amongst most experienced and reasonable observers seems to be that we have finally built a very talented and capable list. Sure, it has the odd hole, and it probably requires a couple of top line additions (eg, Lever, Gaff or another experienced outside mid), but it is fundamentally a very talented and well balanced list, albeit still young.

With a good pre-season, our younger players having had another year under their belts, a better run with injuries, adding a couple of new players in the post season, and a better run with injuries, most commentators have us firmly in the 8 next year, if not higher.

Culturally, Goodwin, McCartney and co seems also to be taking the core of this group in the right direction. The challenge will probably ultimately be keeping the core of this group together.

In this context, I find it frustrating to read posts such as trade Gawn particularly given that we've just delisted Spencer and there is no sensible plan as to how we'd fill that void. It's as though we won the spoon again this year and everyone's on the table, just for the sake of it.

In short, I'd like to see some calmer, more reasoned discussion. That said, I'm well aware it's a trade thread and everyone is entitled to their opinion blah blah etc.

 

 

 

Most reasonable observers in media said the same thing about 5 or 6 Yrs ago about Melbourne, going to be the next dynasty.

Maybe even Worsfold entered that debate.

[deeflog 679]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

Suns have made it clear they don't want picks but would rather a player instead for Ablett. Darcy Lang is the one they seem to be keen on. 

Reported they have requested Mitch Duncan in return

[deelete my account 1,194]

Just now, deeflog said:

Reported they have requested Mitch Duncan in return

Nice to see GCS doing some trolling.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, deeflog said:

Reported they have requested Mitch Duncan in return

Doubt that will happen, but good on the Suns for playing hard ball and starting high if it's true.  They won't get Duncan, but they deserve to be compensated fairly.

[Willmoy1947 4,086]

4 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

The general consensus amongst most experienced and reasonable observers seems to be that we have finally built a very talented and capable list. Sure, it has the odd hole, and it probably requires a couple of top line additions (eg, Lever, Gaff or another experienced outside mid), but it is fundamentally a very talented and well balanced list, albeit still young.

With a good pre-season, our younger players having had another year under their belts, a better run with injuries, adding a couple of new players in the post season, and a better run with injuries, most commentators have us firmly in the 8 next year, if not higher.

Culturally, Goodwin, McCartney and co seems also to be taking the core of this group in the right direction. The challenge will probably ultimately be keeping the core of this group together.

In this context, I find it frustrating to read posts such as trade Gawn particularly given that we've just delisted Spencer and there is no sensible plan as to how we'd fill that void. It's as though we won the spoon again this year and everyone's on the table, just for the sake of it.

In short, I'd like to see some calmer, more reasoned discussion. That said, I'm well aware it's a trade thread and everyone is entitled to their opinion blah blah etc.

 

 

 

That's good, saves me writing all of that.......total agreement

[Demons11 7,010]

37 minutes ago, deeflog said:

Reported they have requested Mitch Duncan in return

I was at GF lunch yesterday and both Brownless and Carey said they have already agreed on a deal but didn't say what it was 

[Bitter but optimistic 22,239]

4 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

I was at GF lunch yesterday and both Brownless and Carey said they have already agreed on a deal but didn't say what it was 

Probably because they didn't have a [censored] clue.

 

[Demons11 7,010]

6 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Probably because they didn't have a [censored] clue.

 

They seemed very confident

[Lampers 563]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

I hear they might want money as well in the form of a return of cash because his contract for the present three years (now at the end of his second) was heavily front loaded.

Wonder how that works under the salary cap. Presumably it reduces what Geelong can pay other players in 2018 but what it does for the GCS salary cap I have no idea as it is money already spent. (In reality it is of course just AFL money.)

Also begs the question of who pays the money.. the clubs or GAJ... after all the money is in his pocket at present.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/26/gold-coast-indicate-willingness-to-allow-gary-ablett-to-return-to-geelong

Ablett’s contract is believed to be heavily front-loaded, meaning the Cats may be asked to provide some level of financial compensation to secure his services.

My understanding is clubs cannot trade money or "salary cap space".

Why getting a player back to GCS from Geelong is so important is it can act as a proxy for this.

Say GCS get Lang. And to compensate for the front loading that has already happened - which is effectively a prepayment to Ablett - Geelong still pay all of Lang's $300k salary. Paying portions of a former player's salary is allowed.

This means GCS basically get financial compensation by not paying Lang, and salary cap relief by not having that salary count against their cap so they can prepay or front load some other players in 2018.

Then Geelong could recoup some of that money by paying Ablett less than he is really worth - because Ablett is the one who effectively already taken money early for services he was meant to provide in 2018.

It's convoluted but is the only way to effectively move financial compensation around as part of a trade.

[daisycutter 29,613]

3 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

They seemed very confident

well if that's the case we'll find out day 1 of trade week

[McQueen 17,864]

You watch GAJ get back to his most damaging best next year at Geelong.

Nothing surer.

Unless of course Viney shitmixes his shoulder again for him.

[daisycutter 29,613]

5 minutes ago, McQueen said:

You watch GAJ get back to his most damaging best next year at Geelong.

Nothing surer.

Unless of course Viney shitmixes his shoulder again for him.

will be the most targeted shoulder in afl history next year

[Cards13 9,117]

54 minutes ago, Lampers said:

My understanding is clubs cannot trade money or "salary cap space".

Why getting a player back to GCS from Geelong is so important is it can act as a proxy for this.

Say GCS get Lang. And to compensate for the front loading that has already happened - which is effectively a prepayment to Ablett - Geelong still pay all of Lang's $300k salary. Paying portions of a former player's salary is allowed.

This means GCS basically get financial compensation by not paying Lang, and salary cap relief by not having that salary count against their cap so they can prepay or front load some other players in 2018.

Then Geelong could recoup some of that money by paying Ablett less than he is really worth - because Ablett is the one who effectively already taken money early for services he was meant to provide in 2018.

It's convoluted but is the only way to effectively move financial compensation around as part of a trade.

Wouldn't Ablett, rather than Cats, have to give money back ie similar to the buy out clauses you see in the NBA ie Dwyane Wade this week.

[Diamond_Jim 12,583]

44 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Wouldn't Ablett, rather than Cats, have to give money back ie similar to the buy out clauses you see in the NBA ie Dwyane Wade this week.

as Lampers mentioned,,,,, part of the deal is that GAJ takes a lower salary to play for cats and thus the "money" is returned.

Fascinating ..... does require as I see it  a direct player swap which could be the issue

Edited September 26, 2017 by Diamond_Jim

[DubDee 25,858]

1 hour ago, McQueen said:

You watch GAJ get back to his most damaging best next year at Geelong.

Nothing surer.

Unless of course Viney shitmixes his shoulder again for him.

I'd be surprised if he played more than half a dozen good games for the rest of his career.  he has played less than 50% of games over the past 3 seasons and will be almost 34yo when the season starts

his body is not holding up. Cats would be mad to give up more then 'the old pick 88'. you certainly wouldn't want to sign him to more than one year

[Demon trucker 1,800]

35 minutes ago, DubDee said:

I'd be surprised if he played more than half a dozen good games for the rest of his career.  he has played less than 50% of games over the past 3 seasons and will be almost 34yo when the season starts

his body is not holding up. Cats would be mad to give up more then 'the old pick 88'. you certainly wouldn't want to sign him to more than one year

Ablett does not improve their list, with Mackey and tom one kidney gone they have  huge wholes in their defence, that means Taylor will no longer be a swing men, he will go back and stay there that means no help for tomahawk, I don't see any good young backmen  on their list to take Mackey and toms place, I hope they lose motlop or  Daniel Menzel,  in their one final win  it showed how important motlop is to them, he is their x factor.

[Skuit 10,031]

G. Ablett (Gold Coast) traded to Geelong for D. Lang. Imagine crystal-balling that sentence with the bookies ten years ago? You'd be richer than Jake Lever is going to be.

[Gorgoroth 12,950]

14 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

My Druid just unsheathed his sword. 

Druids don't carry swords... ffs

 

ha ha ?

[jackaub 1,402]

12 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Suns have made it clear they don't want picks but would rather a player instead for Ablett. Darcy Lang is the one they seem to be keen on. 

And Mitch Duncan from early reports

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

10 hours ago, Cards13 said:

Wouldn't Ablett, rather than Cats, have to give money back ie similar to the buy out clauses you see in the NBA ie Dwyane Wade this week.

He won’t give the money back. He’s an evangelical. Conflicts with the prosperity gospel.

Edited September 26, 2017 by america de cali

[whatwhat say what 22,749]

11 minutes ago, america de cali said:

He won’t give the money back. He’s an evangelical. Conflicts with the prosperity gospel.

what about if he tithes it?

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

11 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

what about if he tithes it?

GC have been tithing him for the past two seasons.

[Willmoy1947 4,086]

3 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

what about if he tithes it?

You mean wearing a bra under his jumper?

[McQueen 17,864]

12 hours ago, DubDee said:

I'd be surprised if he played more than half a dozen good games for the rest of his career.  he has played less than 50% of games over the past 3 seasons and will be almost 34yo when the season starts

his body is not holding up. Cats would be mad to give up more then 'the old pick 88'. you certainly wouldn't want to sign him to more than one year

It's obviously not a risk the Suns or the Cats are willing to take - each for their own benefits.

We all know how brilliant he can be. Will the Cats trade a youngster bottom 6 player for a bloke who could win a game off his own boot even at the age of 34 years?