POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 7

[Diamond_Jim 12,628]

12 hours ago, A F said:

I reckon we'll give next week a real shake. Have thought so for a couple of weeks now. Just a pity Adelaide got thumped by so much. Hopefully it plays with their confidence.

I was pulling my hair out. These are senior players. Why didn't Hibberd kick the damn thing in quickly and put the Hawthorn defence under pressure? Instead, he gets tackles trying to do too much and we have to reset and lose precious seconds.

Two weeks or so ago (Freo match) we were criticizing Vince (?) for bombing in during the last minute.

Ok this was closer to the end but I am not sure that the players knew the time left down to the seconds.

[Devil is in the Detail 883]

6 minutes ago, praha said:

I can already see what will happen next week. One of a few things:

1. Adelaide will get a 25-30 point lead early, we'll peg it back but ultimately lose by 15-20

2. We'll jump Adelaide, get out to a strong 3-4 goal lead but them crumble and lose by 1 point

3. Adelaide will pump us (unlikely imo)

We need 3-4 players to have the best game of their careers in order to win this weekend. Lose and we are 3-5 with finals looking increasingly unlikely.

Haven't you just covered every scenario except us winning.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

10 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Jeesus man, it was a ridiculous decision three weeks ago. Stupid selections like this have cost us games.

Being a bit over dramatic, Kent and Kennedy two obvious replacements have been criticised on here for lack of defensive pressure many times

Maybe Melksham should have stayed in and Wagner not played, or Stretch whose form dropped alarmingly instead of Bugg etc etc etc   after a loss the hindsight has no boundaries on here

Edited May 8, 2017 by Satyriconhome

[hemingway 7,631]

26 minutes ago, praha said:

I can already see what will happen next week. One of a few things:

1. Adelaide will get a 25-30 point lead early, we'll peg it back but ultimately lose by 15-20

2. We'll jump Adelaide, get out to a strong 3-4 goal lead but them crumble and lose by 1 point

3. Adelaide will pump us (unlikely imo)

We need 3-4 players to have the best game of their careers in order to win this weekend. Lose and we are 3-5 with finals looking increasingly unlikely.

Hopefully the Crows loss is indicative of a loss of form. They were due for a loss. However, the Crows play the AO so well. 

We will need a complete team effort and as you say, we will need some of players to have great games.

We certainly need to curb the influence of Walker, Betts, Sloane and to a lesser extent Jacobs.  

We will need mid-field dominance but also quick defensive tags on these guys.

[old55 23,705]

Very disappointing effort early and resulting outcome.

But I'm not discouraged in the big picture, we could hardly have played worse and they couldn't have played better and we lost by a kick.

[Bay Riffin 1,480]

1 hour ago, DeeZee said:

Terry Wallace just saying on SEN that Melbourne will never have real success while the McDonald brothers play in the same side.

Says while they are athletic and can intercept, they are very poor decision makers and ultimately cost the team.

He probably is right. Very Fair on Tom but you have to give Oscar a bit more time. I actually think Tom is the worst kick in the league.

[pineapple dee 2,892]

Like no time before in the history of this club, Melbourne are at the crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness, the other to total annihilation. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly  !!!!

[drdrake 3,187]

16 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Very disappointing effort early and resulting outcome.

But I'm not discouraged in the big picture, we could hardly have played worse and they couldn't have played better and we lost by a kick.

I'm a little worried as I don't see much depth.  Gawn makes a massive difference, Brayshaw is a real concern, Kent should be in the side not sure why he isn't, Stretch will be OK and Weideman, but who else. 

[DeeZee 7,445]

We still have the talent, everything that could go wrong has gone wrong for us so far this year, injuries, umpiring decisions, catching teams on the rebound etc..

[Bay Riffin 1,480]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I have mentioned Tim O'Brien in several posts but I think his game is worth more discussion as he really hurt us - in part because our defenders didn't pay him enough respect and he was able to dominate the forward line:  He took 10 marks, had 5 hitouts and kicked 2 goals.

He is 23yo and played only 20 games and I wondered where he has been hiding.  The HFC website says:  " After four games in 2014, the key forward couldn’t back it up with a senior berth in 2015, but was solid up forward all year for Box Hill as he continues to serve the time-honoured Hawthorn apprenticeship".

He is the quintessential ruck/forward a perfect complement to Roughy.  O'Brien is the type of player we desperately need.  We could have won every game if we had such a player (no I don't think Watts is that player - he is needed elsewhere).

Anyway, he made me think of Weideman and how quick some posters have been to judge him.  The disadvantage Weideman has vs O'Brien is being a high draft pick so people expect him to perform earlier rather than later.  O'Brien shows the benefit of proper development...hope our coaches are paying attention and don't rush Weideman back.

My hope is Goodwin makes Weideman into a player who can be our ruck/forward in a few years.  

good post. Weideman should serve a fair bit of time in the twos. apparently was quite poor yesterday so let him play a full year at Casey. He obviously has some ability, a good mark and a nice kick. We just need to build him up to get more of the ball, so he can at least get 10-15 possession games.

[jackaub 1,402]

53 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Our upcoming games are Adelaide, North Melbourne, Gold Coast and Collingwood.

I'm tipping we will be 6-5 at the end of this period.

It will be 3-8 if they continue to play one quarter of football each week

I really dont know why it is happening but Goodwin seems powerless to stop it.

One can only hope the penny drops and we have 4 quarter leadership from our senior players

Unfortunately it is they who are bending to pressure and turning the ball over too many times per game

[beelzebub 23,383]

1 hour ago, hemingway said:

Whats more depressing than losing?

Reading the negativity, criticism and bagging of players, coaches and Club.

 

  

oh sorry Ernest

we're doing just brilliantly...

[jumbo returns 6,741]

2 hours ago, america de cali said:

Hawthorn are on the decline. Their skills have been woeful this season. Their experienced players are slow. When spuds like Langford and O'Brien star all day is an indictment on us. They still know how to take mug sides like us that think the game is won before the first bounce though.

Were you at the game? Their skills have ben woeful all year?

Nup....you're wrong

They finally got the ball into the hands of their experienced, best players

[MudDogs Gawn Win.. someday 499]

1. If anyone has already posted this my bad. But it's happened all season. Every long ball into our defence there is always 3-4 melbourne players flying at the ball and more commonly than not, their opponents stay down crumb the obvious self spoiled attempts and waltz into easy goals.. 

2. Theres waiting for the right option and then there is absolutely stupidity.. The lack of urgency in the last minute was beyond a joke.. no from outside 50 wanted the ball in their hands to kick the winning goal.. And I thought he had an improving game (big critic of him) Oscar McDonald.. Why he and also Salem to 3-4 seconds to wheel around and kick it to the top of the goal square?? Honestly.. even in BT picked up that the runners were yelling how much time there was!!

Apart from a few not enough in this side wanna step up and "Be the Man!"

Edited May 8, 2017 by Mud Dogs Gonna Win

[jumbo returns 6,741]

12 hours ago, A F said:

Oh, come on, mate. We're past making excuses. This loss was more about us than them. We didn't turn up for at least the first 40 minutes today

That's right - you don't turn up not to play against the best performing team of all time

[ViaLoop 11]

It always feels like we are slow to react to what is happening in front of us. Every game so far this year has had elements of that happening. We have been lucky a few times but the ability to stop the opposition doing damage for long periods of time is what will continually do us in.

I would love to say it is just a matter of coming out and playing 4 quarters and everything will be right. How easy would that be! But just having a mind set to see that a change is needed earlier rather than later could mean a game won rather than lost.

[beelzebub 23,383]

15 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

good post. Weideman should serve a fair bit of time in the twos. apparently was quite poor yesterday so let him play a full year at Casey. He obviously has some ability, a good mark and a nice kick. We just need to build him up to get more of the ball, so he can at least get 10-15 possession games.

that bit of time is about two years...just saying

a la a Hawthorn type apprenticeship...then hes ready to start learning with the big boys. Then he may well prove useful.

if youre not useful you shouldnt be lining up in the firsts....probably extends to quite a few really

[hemingway 7,631]

7 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

oh sorry Ernest

we're doing just brilliantly...

Think you deliberately missed my point Beezle but it doesn't really matter. Some disappointing   performances but all is not lost. It's a long season. 

[old55 23,705]

12 minutes ago, drdrake said:

I'm a little worried as I don't see much depth.  Gawn makes a massive difference, Brayshaw is a real concern, Kent should be in the side not sure why he isn't, Stretch will be OK and Weideman, but who else. 

Agree Gawn changes the whole set-up.

I agree and am on record that my biggest concern this year is Brayshaw - we really need another class mid and him therefore to realise his potential, we don't want another Trengove.

As you say Weed and Stretch will make it.  Kent needs to play team rules.

Joel Smith is very exciting.  If AVB can get his body right he's a big in.  I think Hannan and Wagner can both play and just need more time.  

It would be handy if Dec Kielty can come on.

Players like Harmes, Melksham, ANB, Kennedy, Bugg, Trengove can come in and play a role - with salary cap and list management you can't have 30 champs.

[beelzebub 23,383]

9 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Think you deliberately missed my point Beezle but it doesn't really matter. Some disappointing   performances but all is not lost. It's a long season. 

Missed nothing..I think youre missing the bigger point Ernest.  We're not going to plan. We're shizen. No good making excuses my friend

[Dr. Gonzo 24,305]

16 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Sorry but nothing has changed my opinion about Vince since the Freo game. Bloke is cooked. With about 30 seconds to go he decides to just chip it in for a 20m pass to Salem. just doesn't know how to stand up as a leader in the close games.

Hawks dropped 4 extra men into our forward line, had he bombed away they would've marked or cleared it and game over. The right option was to try and get the ball to around 50 and either chip a pass to someone or have a crack at the goals. Vince made the right call.

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

25 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Were you at the game? Their skills have ben woeful all year?

Nup....you're wrong

They finally got the ball into the hands of their experienced, best players

Because we let them and watch the replays of the rest of their games. They still can pull out the tricks for the softcoques. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by america de cali

[Lord Travis 10,763]

I'm sick of losing to bottom teams every year. With Sydney winning, Hawthorn were bottom of the ladder. They were 1-5 with a % of 63. In terms of performance, they were on par with Melbourne during the Mark Neeld era. Sure they have some old champions in that team, but they have been horrendous this year, absolutely pathetic. They've had 3 80+ losses and an average losing margin of 70+ points. And we lost to them. That loss is an absolute embarrassment for the club. I hope the players really feel the sting of that loss but I doubt they will if history is anything to go by.

If we don't make finals this year then it's a complete waste of a season. We've got older guys like Lewis, Vince, Jones who are only going to be around for another 2-3 years. We're already struggling with leadership, we'll be even worse when the guys retire. We need these kids getting all the experience they can get, and that includes finals experience. If we're not producing actual successful results instead of being competitive, we won't attract good players from other clubs, and guys like Hogan will get fed up and go home to WA. It's a vicious cycle and I'm not sure we're out of it yet.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,305]

16 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Well said Man

my sentiments exactly. This club has not won anything for so long that we are going to have to buy our way out of it, to get the club on track. Lewis was a good start but we need so much more. 

We should have smashed Whorethorn today, they are cooked. 

But no, we handballed in circles and panicked till half time. 

Even a man down and we didn't put the boot in. 

West Coast got towelled up by the Hawks 2 weeks ago and they're 4th on the ladder. The Hawks aren't as bad as their position/performances indicates, how many 4-time premiership players/leaders do they still have out there? And they'd been given an absolute rocket by their coach this week, they were always going to respond. The loss is disappointing, frustrating, but it's not cause to blow the whole place up and start again. We are still on the right trajectory and the wins will start to come.

They should be coming now and it is frustrating because they are clearly good enough (could be 7-0 if things had gone our way or had we made things go our way) but cutting loose at the club, president, captains whoever isnt gonna help.

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

West Coast got towelled up by the Hawks 2 weeks ago and they're 4th on the ladder. The Hawks aren't as bad as their position/performances indicates, how many 4-time premiership players/leaders do they still have out there? And they'd been given an absolute rocket by their coach this week, they were always going to respond. The loss is disappointing, frustrating, but it's not cause to blow the whole place up and start again. We are still on the right trajectory and the wins will start to come.

They should be coming now and it is frustrating because they are clearly good enough (could be 7-0 if things had gone our way or had we made things go our way) but cutting loose at the club, president, captains whoever isnt gonna help.

No they are not good enough. That is the point. Stop making excuses for a bunch of mentally weak footballers, who think they can turn up at half time to win the game. 

The coach said as much in his presser

This Sh!t has been around for decades. It will either be rectified or the club will continue to slowly die. 

What a great thankyou for reaching 40,000 members yesterday was. 

Sponsors will be queueing up to get on our jumper