JLT Round 2 vs. Carlton at Casey Fields

[Demon Dynasty 15,412]

3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes but there is a time and a place to take the game on. TMac doesn't always get that right. 

As a key defender he has to nail this decision better

Stop reading my diary SWY

[Emerald 1,691]

I was at the game yesterday and this (last hour) has been the first chance I've had to read this thread. There are two things I'd like to add to the discussion:

Firstly, it was amazing to see three loose Melbourne players in our forward fifty when a couple of years ago we had trouble getting the ball inside fifty.

Secondly, I want to praise Jesse Hogan for his character during an incident before the game. During his goal kicking warm up, he kicked a ball that hit a child in the crowd. The child went running off into the crowd to his parents while Hogan dropped his practice and followed the child to make sure he was okay. Hogan from the fence, called over the child to speak to him which he did. Not only during play is Jesse a champion.

 

 

P.S. Go Dees!

Edited February 26, 2017 by Emerald

[Akum 2,660]

2 hours ago, A F said:

I'm not sure there is under Goodwin's game plan. I think it's on all the time. That also makes decision making easier, because if everyone knows you're going to go as soon as you get it, there should be support runners or kicking options.

One of the commentators, in a rare moment of insight, said that Goody as a coach likes to keep things simple. I totally agree with what you're saying here.

To me Tom has more disposal problems when there's more than one option and he can't decide which one to take. The clanger against Bombers last year, there were two teammates standing about 30m apart and an opponent standing halfway between them. Tom seemed to change his mind about 4 times during the ball drop about which teammate he'd go for, and ended up passing it straight to the man standing between them.

[Nasher 33,047]

2 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Also known as Neal Bullen (minus the Alex) according to Danny Frawley.

Glad I wasn't the only one who picked that up.  I heard him refer to him as just Neal, and just Bullen at various stages.  Clearly doesn't realise.

[Return to Glory 7,727]

24 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I was at the game yesterday and this (last hour) has been the first chance I've had to read this thread. There are two things I'd like to add to the discussion:

Firstly, it was amazing to see three loose Melbourne players in our forward fifty when a couple of years ago we had trouble getting the ball inside fifty.

Secondly, I want to praise Jesse Hogan for his character during an incident before the game. During his goal kicking warm up, he kicked a ball that hit a child in the crowd. The child went running off into the crowd to his parents while Hogan dropped his practice and followed the child to make sure he was okay. Hogan from the fence, called over the child to speak to him which he did. Not only during play is Jesse a champion.

 

 

P.S. Go Dees!

I thought it all the more admirable when one considers that it was Brendan Bolton, Carlton coach. Sportsmanship.

[Upper Combukta West 48]

4 hours ago, Ted Fidge said:

Yes, Tommy does have a deficiency -- has always had it -- his ball drop is too high -- leads to some shocking kicks. Clean that up and his dashing moves will have him looking more like David Dench and less like Zac Dawson.

Actually it's not a high ball drop. Tmac and Omac both have the unfortunate kicking style where they hold the ball with one hand from behind and drop it from that hand to the foot. This means they don't really guide it down nicely with one hand on the side and they get some horrid kicks.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

4 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Glad I wasn't the only one who picked that up.  I heard him refer to him as just Neal, and just Bullen at various stages.  Clearly doesn't realise.

It was the "Neal" that made me realise he had no idea.

It's also clear from watching the replay that they were commentating off a TV and weren't actually at the ground.

[daisycutter 28,508]

4 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

It was the "Neal" that made me realise he had no idea.

It's also clear from watching the replay that they were commentating off a TV and weren't actually at the ground.

well they probably had no cash, quite understandable

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

well they probably had no cash, quite understandable

This comment deserved more than a "like"!

[rjay 23,902]

Tommy Mac is a highly rated younger defender and not far off being an AA...

All this garbage talk about him is nit picking...yep he will make some mistakes but I'm happy we've got him.

Anyone seen the Collingwood defenders, Reid very average but a very important player, Brown now at St Kilda a terrible kick and premiership player, Chip "Mr up & under" Frawley. What about one of the best kicks in the game Bob Murphy coughing it up last week. Rance used to be a disaster but Richmond would be a bigger disaster without him.

Some of our supporters have become a laughing stock the way they carry on about Tommy Mac at games and on here, it's actually embarrassing to hear media commentators talking about it.

Turnovers happen, we would like to eradicate them but it's not going to happen. There are 2 teams playing and sometimes the other team gets the ball.

[Diamond_Jim 11,746]

so for the big question..... Do we continue the zone for Round 1 or do we tag Riewoldt?

[buck_nekkid 5,481]

I think a lot of the TMac discussion because his defensive acts mark him as AA.  However, it is the exit kicking (time and again) that lets him down.  If he had the vision/decision making/skill to exit more often to advantage, he would simply be a beast.  That is what I want for him, and the dees.  Turnovers that lead to goals hurt.

we can also turn the blowtorch onto Bernie.  That kick in to Jones that ended in a turnover goal was an absolute pie.

at our next level, we rarely make these mistakes.  I think 4 of their goals came from our efforts inside back 50.  It might be ok against the blues, but come September, those are game killing mistakes.

[old dee 22,851]

7 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

so for the big question..... Do we continue the zone for Round 1 or do we tag Riewoldt?

Tag Riewoldt he was the reason they beat the Crows.

always plays one of his best games of the season against us.

IMO there is no alternative.

[whatwhat say what 18,918]

4 minutes ago, old dee said:

Tag Riewoldt he was the reason they beat the Crows.

always plays one of his best games of the season against us.

IMO there is no alternative.

but who goes to him? we don't really have a genuine tagger these days, and because of the outside nature of riewoldt's game it needs to someone who can run all day, compete in the air, and tackle strongly.

there's no real option other than to run head to head against him.

i think we'll continue using the zone defence.

Edited February 26, 2017 by DemonAndrew

[old dee 22,851]

1 minute ago, DemonAndrew said:

but who goes to him? we don't really have a genuine tagger these days, and because of the outside nature of riewoldt's game it needs to someone who can run all day, compete in the air, and tackle strongly.

there's no real option other than to run head to head against him.

What I do know DA is if we use the same  method of the last three years we can be assured he will be in the top three players again.

He usually gets most of his Brownlow votes against us these days.

[whatwhat say what 18,918]

i know, it's freakish - he always destroys us.

but given that he plays that wing role these days i expect us to just go head-to-head with him as there's no real run-with option - vince might be a possibility, but he's not got the aerial strength. i think brayshaw could run with and compete in the air, but i prefer him around the ball that playing a purely outside role.

i think we'll use our jones-lewis-vince rotation on "his side of the ground" and just try and hurt him the other way so that he's forced to change his role rather than us change one of ours.

his ability to drift forward will be the biggest threat.

[TRIGON 4,715]

Athletically, Joel Smith could be a good match-up. Appreciating that for a first gamer that would be the deepest of deep ends to be chucked into.

[bing181 8,165]

20 hours ago, Macca said:

The bias & group-think that goes on here is astonishing at times. 

Agree, though a more accurate match to describe this kind of cognitive fallacy is the Bandwagon Effect. When it comes to Tom Mac., plenty are on it.

Other biases playing a role here include the Illusory Truth Effect (we equate repetition with truth or increased believability), and the Frequency Illusion (once you notice something, you start to see it everywhere). Though one dud kick from Tom is enough to feed our Confirmation Bias (seeking information that confirms what we already believe, while ignoring information that contradicts it).

Groupthink is a pressure to conform, to not rock the boat. It's suppression of dissenting views, including self-suppression.

All of these cognitive behaviours lead to irrationality in decision-making in a group or social context.

Ahem.

[Macca 16,173]

1 minute ago, bing181 said:

Agree, though a more accurate match to describe this kind of cognitive fallacy is the Bandwagon Effect. When it comes to Tom Mac., plenty are on it.

Other biases playing a role here include the Illusory Truth Effect (we equate repetition with truth or increased believability), and the Frequency Illusion (once you notice something, you start to see it everywhere). Though one dud kick from Tom is enough to feed our Confirmation Bias (seeking information that confirms what we already believe, while ignoring information that contradicts it).

Groupthink is a pressure to conform, to not rock the boat. It's suppression of dissenting views, including self-suppression.

All of these cognitive behaviours lead to irrationality in decision-making in a group or social context.

Ahem.

... or just avoid the game day threads bing  

That's difficult to do for the out-of-towners such as yourself.  

Many here have an unquestioned belief in drafting so at pick 50 odd,  Tommy should be looked upon as an absolute bargain. 

But it doesn't work the other way around. 

 

 

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

8 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Don't want to tell you otherwise you'll be asking me for nude snapchats.

So you didn't,  I played at Amateur level and I missed targets, tackles, etc

[BAMF 3,787]

4 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

So you didn't,  I played at Amateur level and I missed targets, tackles, etc

Saty. No one on here has played AFL. They are still entitled to have an opinion on here regarding anything they want.

What if I said to you : Have you played AFL? If not then don't bother telling me how good we look at training this year because you wouldn't know.

[dazzledavey36 48,734]

10 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

So you didn't,  I played at Amateur level and I missed targets, tackles, etc

Well i didn't.

[Pipefitter 2,014]

Anyone else think ANB is best 22 at the moment?

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, Pipefitter said:

Anyone else think ANB is best 22 at the moment?

No - not because I don't think he can reach that level, but more that I think there are others ahead of him at the minute.  Super depth player to have though and he may sneak a Round 1 spot if the likes of Kent and Garlett are not fit enough.  That doesn't mean he is best 22, but he will get a chance early in the year I'd say.

[Akum 2,660]

1 hour ago, DemonAndrew said:

but who goes to him? we don't really have a genuine tagger these days, and because of the outside nature of riewoldt's game it needs to someone who can run all day, compete in the air, and tackle strongly.

there's no real option other than to run head to head against him.

i think we'll continue using the zone defence.

The options would be Joel Smith, Frost and the two Macs.

Playing positionally as a wingman would be strange to all of them. It's a question of who would adapt relatively well, and who would struggle to adapt. Perhaps T.Mac being the more experienced would adapt best. Then again, he's played all his footy in defence; Frost, for one, has played other positions (KPF, ruck), though not wing.

It's also that we'll lose the most by taking T.Mac out of defence, than any of the others. We'll need tall defenders to match up against Membrey, Bruce & McCartin, though Hibberd could probably help out here. On the other hand, T.Mac could probably hurt them more than the others going the other way, and make Roo have to play more defensively.

T.Mac would probably also be best to match him in the air. Frost might be strong enough, but at this stage probably lacks the footy smarts. This is important, because Saints will use him as an outlet from defence every time, unless a better option presents itself.

Another option could be Watts, who has played wing before, could go with him athletically and could hurt him (and badly!) the other way. Using him would also avoid disrupting our defence. But he will struggle to hold his ground in the air, and will need to be more disciplined than he's used to, and not go ball-chasing. But at this stage I don't think he'll be selected for Round 1.

So I'm betting T.Mac.

But the stakes are high. If we can hold Riewoldt, we take away a huge asset of theirs. And if it forces them to switch Riewoldt to attack