Training - Monday 16th January, 2017

[Satyriconhome 10,010]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Training/Practice Match  Feb 10th at   4.30  PM   Olympic Park Oval.

So my information was correct, except they won't need the lights

[dieter 3,325]

2 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

So my information was correct, except they won't need the lights

You never know in Melbourne, Saty.

[hemingway 7,608]

28 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

So Lewis and Jones must have an issue with clearances and stoppages because they continue to do work on it?

Please, Trengove is working his way back from a serious injury, it is a credit to him that he has made it this far back, he has had a serious foot injury so one mental block could be planting his foot and bursting away, so a bit of extra work on this will do him wonders both physically and mentally

He is quick between the ears, that is much more important than blistering speed, I have watched players burst away with blinding speed and then butcher the kick or the handball, one criticism that can't be levelled at Trengove is his decision making or hand or foot skills

For me, speed is overrated, always has been, always will be

Some posters have an issue with Trengove's supposed lack of speed, we know, must they repeat it every time his name gets mentioned?

Let's wait for the real stuff to start and the game day thread, so they can really vent, if he gets a game of course

 

Reference to Trengove and his lack of speed has become repetitious. Lets give the guy a chance to show his stuff and determine if his attributes outweigh his apparent lack of speed. There are others that "lack a yard" so he is not alone. I hope the selectors give him a chance, however, he going to have to earn his spot. 

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Sam Blease had speed.

 

[Satyriconhome 10,010]

4 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Sam Blease had speed.

 

Thanks Ron, point I am trying to make, prefer to watch Trenners take the right option every time

[Watts the matter 1,235]

3 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Sam Blease had speed.

 

Such a lame generic response that gets posted nearly every time the topic gets raised. I don't see any correlation. It makes a lot more sense to compare him to a player that doesn't have speed.

All slow players that make it at AFL level have elite attributes (whether it's their reflexes, sidestep, kicking skills etc.). I (like many others) questions what Trengoves are. 

This does not mean we do not wish for him to succeed, I want him to more than anyone one our list other than Nathan Jones but unfortunately I can't see it happening. 

I remember people saying he was moving well in the 2014 pre season and then went out to training myself and definitely couldn't see it. It appears the same here and picket fence is just calling it as he sees it.

 

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

49 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Let's wait for the real stuff to start and the game day thread, so they can really vent, if he gets a game of course

 

No thanks, I'll discuss what I want and do it when I want. I'll continue to ask and be interested in others view of Trengove's speed.  It's a subject I'm interested in.

Unless of course Demonland decides it's a topic not worth discussion.

 

[old dee 23,010]

1 minute ago, Vogon Poetry said:

No thanks, I'll discuss what I want and do it when I want. I'll continue to ask and be interested in others view of Trengove's speed.  It's a subject I'm interested in.

Unless of course Demonland decides it's a topic not worth discussion.

 

Do you have the same philosophy on discussing Ben Ken?

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

Just now, old dee said:

Do you have the same philosophy on discussing Ben Ken?

I have no objection to others discussing any player as much as they want as long as it's respectful.

 

 

[Dante 2,562]

24 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Reference to Trengove and his lack of speed has become repetitious. Lets give the guy a chance to show his stuff and determine if his attributes outweigh his apparent lack of speed. There are others that "lack a yard" so he is not alone. I hope the selectors give him a chance, however, he going to have to earn his spot. 

Correct, it seems that as soon as someone asks how he is going at training, nothing else, just how is he going, there is an avalanche of criticism about his speed.

Everyone says they wish him well, then they have a go at his lack of speed and some reason why he shouldn't be here. There are plenty of players that have a flaw, but it seems as if the only one that receives any consistent attention is JT.

To be fair, no one will know until he plays in a match proper, if he is too slow for the game, so why don't we hold back until then, he's on the list, suck it up and wait and see.

 

 

 

[Satyriconhome 10,010]

2 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

No thanks, I'll discuss what I want and do it when I want. I'll continue to ask and be interested in others view of Trengove's speed.  It's a subject I'm interested in.

Unless of course Demonland decides it's a topic not worth discussion.

 

Vogon, it is not a discussion, that is my point, it is a variation on a theme, degrees of slowness, watching paint dry etc etc ad infinitum, till hell freezes over....I assume that unless Trengove, in a game, tucks it under his arm and does a very good impression of Usain Bolt, you will assume he is still slow?

[old dee 23,010]

1 minute ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I have no objection to others discussing any player as much as they want as long as it's respectful.

 

 

Oh good.

[old dee 23,010]

10 minutes ago, Dante said:

Correct, it seems that as soon as someone asks how he is going at training, nothing else, just how is he going, there is an avalanche of criticism about his speed.

Everyone says they wish him well, then they have a go at his lack of speed and some reason why he shouldn't be here. There are plenty of players that have a flaw, but it seems as if the only one that receives any consistent attention is JT.

To be fair, no one will know until he plays in a match proper, if he is too slow for the game, so why don't we hold back until then, he's on the list, suck it up and wait and see.

 

 

 

I agree with you Dante but I disagree with the size of the group.

My view is a vocal few. the majority want him to succeed.

My view is the guy played injured for some time after Neeld through the captaincy at him.

The club has given him an extra season and I believe 99% of supporters want him to be great.

Nothing would please me more than to see him as a regular in 2017.

Edited January 17, 2017 by old dee

[Dante 2,562]

2 minutes ago, old dee said:

I agree with you Dante but I disagree with the size of the group.

My view is a vocal few. the majority want him to succeed.

My view is the guy played injured for some time after Neeld through the captaincy at him.

The club has given him an extra season and I believe 99% of supporters.

Nothing would please me more than to see him as a regular in 2017.

It just seems as if there is this constant discussion/criticism about/of JT when the same doesn't apply to the other players. As soon as someone asks how he is going, the usual suspects jump in with the, too slow, not good enough, even the ones who haven't seen him train.

I forgive Pickett because he's obsessive compulsive and once he gets a set for or against someone (Juice Newton) he just can't help himself, but some who haven't seen him train shouldn't just assume he hasn't picked up on his pace.

 

 

[jnrmac 19,328]

Frawlet isn't quick but he caught Jetta.

[jnrmac 19,328]

19 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Such a lame generic response that gets posted nearly every time the topic gets raised. I don't see any correlation. It makes a lot more sense to compare him to a player that doesn't have speed.

 

Nah it just means that speed isn't everything. Fast does not necessarily equal good or someone with a footy brain.

 

[bazza226 66]

Two of the slowest footballers and the best were Greg Williams and Sam Mitchell.

Trenners is probably not in their league but still could be a player.

[beelzebub 22,372]

51 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Reference to Trengove and his lack of speed has become repetitious. Lets give the guy a chance to show his stuff and determine if his attributes outweigh his apparent lack of speed. There are others that "lack a yard" so he is not alone. I hope the selectors give him a chance, however, he going to have to earn his spot. 

I for one am astounded ( as pleased as punch for the bloke ) that he's got to this point. All bets are off and every player for themselves in having a crack at a position. He deserves every opportunity and will get it now. Up to him, as its up to anyone.

Speed...such a vexed parameter often...for mine right up there with 'effective disposal" on the stats sheet.  All very murky and needs to be contextual in the light of play.

Trenners has footy smarts..you cant teach that...you can try...but either its in a players DNA or not...it IS in Jacks. I look forward to seeing Melbourne evolve and if Trengove is part of it all well and good, if not.,.such is life but Im sure we wont be left guessing

Go Dees

[CBDees 3,162]

4 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Nah it just means that speed isn't everything. Fast does not necessarily equal good or someone with a footy brain.

 

And we are still talking about a player who could just as easily been the number one draft pick but for the toss of a coin (with $cully)! Maybe he could he still could still surprise all the Demonland naysayers as Watts has?

[dazzledavey36 49,394]

1 hour ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Are we allowed to discuss any player weaknesses?  Trengove is a much admired person here and everywhere.  Most would think that his (lack of) speed is the one thing holding him back.  Should we stop people who have been to training from commenting on it because it's "bleating".

You think he's fast enough and others don't.  Let them have their say.  For the record, he wouldn't be doing the special work on his speed if it wasn't an issue.

It's a moot point Saty, time will tell but we are discussing it.  Nobody is wishing him ill.

Bang..

[Wiseblood 24,636]

18 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Frawlet isn't quick but he caught Jetta.

Well, when Trengove chases down Cyril Rioli we can all be quiet about his speed.

For the record, 99% of Demon supporters want him to succeed (and I'm one of them).  He just isn't all that quick and, in the modern game, you need a variety of other attributes to help you thrive at this level.  Trengove is a terrific depth player and deserved another year, but I still have some doubts as to how he translates to football in 2017 as football has changed since he began his career.

[tiers 2,785]

What a lot of hooey and hogwash. Jack Trengove has shown the ability to get to the contest, win the ball and deliver it to advantage. That's all we want from him.

Speed is but one attribute that contributes to the ability to get to the contest. Others include reading the flight of the ball, making good decisions on when to go the the contest, being in the right place when the ball arrives and being able to evade your opponent. On the other hand, foot speed is valuable to escape being tackled but thought speed and hand speed  are just as important in delivering the ball to advantage.

Williams and Mitchell have been cited as examples of slow players who nevertheless displayed footy brilliance. Their special skills were showcased by the players around them who instinctively knew where to be to receive the ball. That takes patient coaching and many games played together as a team. Jack has never had that luxury and he has been expected to carry too much of the load at a time when the club was unable to develop its list.

The ongoing criticisms of Jack for being too slow are unwarranted and unfair. He is a genuine footballer and deserves the chance to play in a good, competitive team to show his wares. He might surprise.

[monoccular 16,417]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

.....He is quick between the ears, that is much more important than blistering speed, I have watched players burst away with blinding speed and then butcher the kick or the handball, one criticism that can't be levelled at Trengove is his decision making or hand or foot skills

For me, speed is overrated, always has been, always will be

.....

Diesel Williams vs Sam Blease anyone?  Who would you rather had the ball?

[Moonshadow 16,411]

I like to read discussion on the skills and merits of players such as Trengove, including foot speed. Thanks to those contributing to this. I chuckle at the irony of those that can't accept critical discussion about players and feel the need to use labels such as mob mentality, venting or bleating. 

I hope to get to training once or twice in the next couple of weeks and promise to not to get offended or upset if someone sees different on here. It's a footy forum FFS!

[Satyriconhome 10,010]

5 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

I like to read discussion on the skills and merits of players such as Trengove, including foot speed. Thanks to those contributing to this. I chuckle at the irony of those that can't accept critical discussion about players and feel the need to use labels such as mob mentality, venting or bleating. 

I hope to get to training once or twice in the next couple of weeks and promise to not to get offended or upset if someone sees different on here. It's a footy forum FFS!

Moonie, it is not discussion, not all of us like reading the same thing from the same posters every time a certain player gets mentioned, Old Dee v Ben Ken, it is boring, WE ALL KNOW some think Trengove is slow, it has been said on here since he was drafted.

It's not I can't accept critical discussion about players, it is reading the same [censored] thing over and over again, it reminds me of a herd of sheep bleating, I have enough posters on ignore, I will have nothing to read if I start to self censor what I read as well

Edited January 17, 2017 by Satyriconhome