The Middle Men

[Dedogtor 66]

The middle men 

They are not yet stars, not yet first call starters, not yet reached there peak yet all full of potential and and most likely hold the keys to Melbourne rise they are Melbourne middle men in every sense of the word (note I have excluded key backs or forwards, new recruits and the kids we know will or expect to star)

Stretch 
Salem
Bugg
Kennedy 
Harmes
AVB
ANB
Trengove 
JKH 
Wagner

The question is who has the greatest cieling who will thrive and survive who will not!

Edited October 30, 2016 by Dedogtor

[Roost It 1,434]

24 minutes ago, Dedogtor said:

Only an opinion

Stretch - will make it
Salem - will make it
Bugg - good depth
Kennedy - good depth
Harmes - looks good, borderline best 22
AVB - looks good, most likely best 22
ANB - doubtful
Trengrove - doubtful but hopeful
JKH - needs an injury free run soon, unknown, tending toward doubtful
Wagner - looks good, borderline best 22

 

 

Edited October 29, 2016 by Roost It

[Deestroy All 14,266]

Stretch and Salem are class. Salem is a class above all of them, hopefully he gets his body right. 

The rest are handy depth. You'd shudder at them all in the same team, but each of them can easily fill a role when needed. 

[Dedogtor 66]

Guess I should add I believe there is a player in AVB who could be a weapon!

Harms could be anything at this point infact all these players have not  perpetuated the simple frustrating skill errors of passed Melbourne players.

Although I can't say extactley why but I struggle to see Trengrove coming good like other player suffering long stints on the sidelines such as Gawn,  O'meara case will be interesting to watch in comparison.

[faultydet 7,594]

23 minutes ago, Dedogtor said:

Guess I should add I believe there is a player in AVB who could be a weapon!

Harms could be anything at this point infact all these players have not  perpetuated the simple frustrating skill errors of passed Melbourne players.

Although I can't say extactley why but I struggle to see Trengrove coming good like other player suffering long stints on the sidelines such as Gawn,  O'meara case will be interesting to watch in comparison.

Agree with the AVB assessment, although I would like to see him play midfield more often.

Harmes - Meh, don't see much at all to be honest. Needs to improve his skills and awareness.

Trengove - Being the slowest midfielder I have ever seen on an AFL ground does nothing to instill any confidence in his future. Delist next year imo.

 

Consider running a spellcheck next time Dedogtor. Good post otherwise.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

2 hours ago, Deestroy All said:

Stretch and Salem are class. Salem is a class above all of them, hopefully he gets his body right. 

The rest are handy depth. You'd shudder at them all in the same team, but each of them can easily fill a role when needed. 

I am confident Stretch, Salem, Bugg, AVB, Harmes and Wagner will make big rises and further strengthen our team.

[Demon Disciple 12,164]

If Salem's body will allow him a good run without injury, he will become a much better player than the others you listed alongside him.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Hunt should be on this mix. Different skill set, but at a similar stage. 

[Thehardtackler 785]

I really like Harmes. He has passion for the Club and is very determined. Stretch is equally driven because of the lessons he has learnt from his Dad about professional preparation. Salem is starting 22 when fit and so is Bugg, who is the kind of pest that every team needs and who opposition supporters love to hate. If Alex Neal Bulleen gets his body and head in the right place then he could be a very good player. Kennedy could also become a regular starter if he gets some encouragement and confidence. JKH may not make it. Vandenberg may be a one season wonder. Trengove has an uphill challenge but could be very special again with luck. Wagner has talent but is he a Roos or a Goodwin favourite? We will find out soon!

[jnrmac 20,100]

15 hours ago, faultydet said:

Agree with the AVB assessment, although I would like to see him play midfield more often.

Harmes - Meh, don't see much at all to be honest. Needs to improve his skills and awareness.

Trengove - Being the slowest midfielder I have ever seen on an AFL ground does nothing to instill any confidence in his future. Delist next year imo.

 

Consider running a spellcheck next time Dedogtor. Good post otherwise.

Clearly never saw Sam Mitchell or Greg Williams

[faultydet 7,594]

11 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Clearly never saw Sam Mitchell or Greg Williams

Both would have flogged Trengove in a sprint. Poor kid is cooked.

[Little Goffy 14,578]

Stretch - I'm not expecting a star but I think he is steadily improving and becoming more well-rounded. I just have a feeling like he could have an exceptionally long career.
Salem - The only real doubt I get is because of his injury pattern. 
Bugg - Handy to have, may or may not be best 22. Could be one of those unfortunate players who clock 100+ games without even being sure of their spot.
Kennedy - Uncannily similar situation to Bugg
Harmes - Uncannily similar situation to Bugg and Kennedy
AVB - Uncannily... ok, you get the idea.I feel like he has the most potential upside out of this group. Kind of reminds me of Aaron Hamill.
ANB - As I understanding it, he's got particular deficiencies that keep him out of AFL, and if they are corrected he's right in.
Trengrove - fingers crossed that the legs uncross.
JKH - I was excited by his early career form but have been gradually losing confidence that it'll come together.
Wagner - Honestly, I don't know enough to comment. Which I believe the pundits replace with 'He's a wait-and-see type player at the moment'.

[TheoX 1,222]

17 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Hunt should be on this mix. Different skill set, but at a similar stage. 

He is very much best 22 already though.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

1 hour ago, TheoX said:

He is very much best 22 already though.

As are Stretch, Salem and AVB when fit.

[picket fence 17,172]

4 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Stretch - I'm not expecting a star but I think he is steadily improving and becoming more well-rounded. I just have a feeling like he could have an exceptionally long career.
Salem - The only real doubt I get is because of his injury pattern. 
Bugg - Handy to have, may or may not be best 22. Could be one of those unfortunate players who clock 100+ games without even being sure of their spot.
Kennedy - Uncannily similar situation to Bugg
Harmes - Uncannily similar situation to Bugg and Kennedy
AVB - Uncannily... ok, you get the idea.I feel like he has the most potential upside out of this group. Kind of reminds me of Aaron Hamill.
ANB - As I understanding it, he's got particular deficiencies that keep him out of AFL, and if they are corrected he's right in.
Trengrove - fingers crossed that the legs uncross.
JKH - I was excited by his early career form but have been gradually losing confidence that it'll come together.
Wagner - Honestly, I don't know enough to comment. Which I believe the pundits replace with 'He's a wait-and-see type player at the moment'.

I find this whole post cannily uncannily and that's being candidly candid!!

[Dedogtor 66]

4 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

As are Stretch, Salem and AVB when fit.

I did contemplate putting Hunt on the list but his performances have been so consitent I feel his worth is proven and there is no need to contemplate and discus. 

Edited October 30, 2016 by Dedogtor

[stinga 566]

To me AVB is the most important.  We have lots of small middle men - Jones Viney, even Lewis and Vince are not big.  Brayshaw and Oliver give us a bit of height, but for me the strength and height of VDB gives the greatest possibility for improvement.  He can become our (swans) Kennedy.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

1 hour ago, stinga said:

To me AVB is the most important.  We have lots of small middle men - Jones Viney, even Lewis and Vince are not big.  Brayshaw and Oliver give us a bit of height, but for me the strength and height of VDB gives the greatest possibility for improvement.  He can become our (swans) Kennedy.

As Denis Cometti would say,  "ambitious!"

But I like it!

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

23 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Hunt should be on this mix. Different skill set, but at a similar stage. 

No he is in the top bracket. He has already shown himself to be a rising super star. He's no middle the road player.

[poita 3,902]

Stretch is the only one on the list in the opening post who will be a genuine AFL standard midfielder. Salem is a good footballer, but I'm not sure he will play his best football in the midfield.

The rest are all flawed footballers who, whilst capable of contributing on their day, don't do it often enough to be considered best 22 players. At least half of this group will be off the list in two years, if not sooner.

[Demonated 252]

Said it in the best 22 thread and will say it again. Stretch is an automatic starter for me. Salem will be with a decent run at it. AVB should be if he can find some form and consistency too. All the others besides maybe Harmes will have to fight to get a spot in the 22 and may have to wait for injuries that occur throughout the season.

ANB and Wagner have players ahead of them in the roles they play. Especially with Hibberd and Lewis coming in, they have been pushed down in the order IMO. 

Edited October 31, 2016 by Demonated

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

Stretch: Great work habits, pace and skills and should be a member of the side for a long period of time. 
Salem : super talented and hard at the contest, my only minor concern is injuries 
Bugg: solid role player but i think with our depth now he might find himself on the fringe of selection and need to go to a new level to get a consistent game.
Kennedy: similar to Bugg, offers some AFL level weapons but inconsistent, time is on his side.
Harmes: I really like Harmes, should improve again and be a regular AFL player
AVB:  just needs an injury free run at things and he should be a very handy addition to the side
ANB: a long way back in the pecking order so he is up against it, but it's not impossible
Trengrove: make or break year, i am backing him in to regain his early career form and play a role for the Dees, but odds would be against him
JKH : rated internally, will be interesting to see if he can get an injury free run
Wagner: good mature age pick, but falling further down the half back pecking order.

[Lord Travis 10,739]

Here's how I see the middle men. Some are long term options, some are not. Of these I'd say Stretch, Salem (if he can keep healthy), Harmes and Bugg will all play a decent amount of games next season with the others floating round the VFL.

Stretch:  He's a really dedicated and disciplined trainer, which is why he's probably developed a bit quicker than expected. He doesn't have blistering pace that we would like, but his agility is elite, which allows him to twist and turn his way out of a lot of tricky situations. His skills are decent and even though he is slight he goes when it's his turn. I can see him being a part of the team long term and think he's developing nicely. 

Salem : Obviously far more talented than the others on the list, but he just can't seem to shake his ongoing health problems. If he can keep fit and healthy I'd love to see him play midfield and wing. He struggles down back with defending and is often out positioned and straight up beaten. The coaching staff need to move him out of defence and into the midfield and forward half to utilise his weapon, kicking skills to a target. Salem hitting Watts and Hogan on the chest is what we need. We have plenty of other players who can play the half back role and defend better than Salem. Here's hoping he can get healthy because he'll be best 22 long term. If he keeps struggling with his body eventually we will have to cut our losses. 

Bugg: He's a role player. He can tag, run through the midfield or play in a pocket. Even though he may jump in and out of the 22 in the future I think he is important depth for us for the next few years, but don't think he is a long term option. Love his attitude!

Kennedy: similar to Bugg in that he is a role player. He was really good early in the year, and if the coaching staff can get him confident and consistency performing then we have a weapon in our forward half. His recovery is fantastic, he would often fights an opponent for the ball, win it, and then be back on his feet and taking off while everyone else is still on the ground. He needs to work on his consistency to remain on the list long term and I don't think that will happen.

Harmes: Harmes has some weapons but lacks polish. He's a good leap and mark for his size, he's got mongrel and decent pace. His skills however are all over the place. Some games he looks a million bucks hitting teammates and snagging a few goals, other games you he shanks it repeatedly and you wonder how he is even on an AFL list. He needs to tidy up his skills or he won't feature long term. 

AVB:  Reckon he's a one season wonder unfortunately. His first season he played midfield and was a bull. He laid big tackles, crunched into packs and won ball. For whatever reason, and it may have been injury, he performed poorly and lost all the elements to his game that made him damaging. His hunger to the contest disappeared this year, he didn't win much ball, he struggled for pace and just couldn't impact games. If he was injured the coaching staff shouldn't have brought him in and out of the side and just let him recover. It was strange seeing such a change in attitude. I recall in one game an opponent was shoving him around and he just took it and dropped his head and jogged around disinterested. In his first season he would've shoved the guy back twice as hard and then won the next contest. If he can't get that hunger for the contest and his pace back then he will get delisted in the next few years.

ANB: When he was drafted I thought he was a bargain and would be a long term option. His first season he played well when he got his chance at senior level and kicked a few small bags of goals. This year it just didn't work for him. In the VFL he won a stack of ball, but his skills were poor. When he got the chance at senior level again he could not impact at all whether up forward or through the middle. Watching him in the VFL grand final it was alarming how poor his skills were. I now don't think he'll make it.

Trengrove: He was my favourite player and his first few years were brilliant. I think people forget how good he was. Even though the club was in a bad place, it says something that he was elected the youngest captain in AFL history, he was performing that well. The injuries have obviously cut him down. When he returned this season I thought he was actually pretty good. Statistically he was in our top 10 players across the matches he played, but then got dropped after one poor one. Due to the injuries robbing him of his pace he can really now only play as an inside midfielder and unfortunately for Trenners were are well stocked with many ahead of him in that role. Don't think he'll be around much longer which is a shame as he's a talented and good guy who's had a tough run.

JKH : Showed a few glimpses in his first year and has been rubbish since. He's barely had a run at it the last 1-2 years, and when he has he just doesn't have the weapons to impact. He's not quick enough for a small guy, and his skills aren't good enough. Will be delisted at end of next contract. 

Wagner: Good rookie pickup, but I don't rate him. He laid a few big tackles this year and has decent kicking skills when he has time to dispose of it. He struggles under pressure though and winds up with some horrific turnovers due to this. Unlike Hunt he doesn't have a weapon like Hunt's pace, and with so many other half back flankers that are just better than him I think he'll be around long term. He's currently behind Hibberd, Jetta, Hunt, Salem, Melksham, Lumumba, Vince in terms of smaller defenders who can also rebound. He's value for a rookie pick, but not a long term option. 

[Redleg 40,946]

On 29/10/2016 at 10:00 PM, Bobby McKenzie said:

I am confident Stretch, Salem, Bugg, AVB, Harmes and Wagner will make big rises and further strengthen our team.

Stretch is seen as a 200 game player by some in the know and Wagner has great scope for improvement. 

Salem is class. 

AVB is played out of position.

Harmes needs to work on kicking. 

[P-man 13,366]

Salem and Stretch massively stick out on that list. So in that grouping it's one of them, but they should both be taken out as they are a class above and both starters in what I consider the best 22.

Of the rest, I'll go BenKen. Having recently watched his 2016 highlights, I got a reminder of how good he was in the first half of the year.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bxt4UkJC5_Q

If he can string close to a season together of that standard he could cement a spot. The problem is going to be getting enough opportunity at AFL level. He could be looking at a similar fate of so many second stringers who are immediately in and out of the side.

Edited October 31, 2016 by P-man