POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 11

[dazzledavey36 52,912]

Thanks for the answerd guys. Hopefully Frost playing well means no Garland for a while.

[Moonshadow 17,557]

Ducking the head is the new and improved doping. 

[DeeSpencer 24,795]

We beat them easily around the contest, but I Nath Jones was making bad decisions and Bernie probably hacking it forward too much in the end. So they didn't quite dominate as much as they could. 

Then we just don't have enough on the wing/half back and half forward to capitalise on the clearance advantage.

Dawes did a few good things but just isn't going to hold marks any time soon, his technique is shocking. Sprint under the ball, don't jump, hope like held his concrete hands hold them. Garlett was terrible. Kent not much better and Harmes burnt chances. Unless Watts or Petracca got involved - in Tracc's case by hand or by winning it and getting it on quickly - we didn't look all that dangerous forward and the defensive pressure dropped away. 

Similarly we are a mile off it down back. 

[Soidee 1,496]

Strong game and we were hard at.  They are just more experienced and polished.  They are on the decline and we are on the way up.  Next year we will win this game and break this hoodoo.

[Biffen 12,853]

Just now, Moonshadow said:

Ducking the head is the new and improved doping. 

I will need to get back into the lab to rid the game of these terribles B grade actors.

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 771]

The delayed telecast of the game just finished here in the West, I was praying to God, fallen family members and friends in the last qtr but to no avail and then the commentators talk the Hawks up and I just want to fn spew.

[Bang Na Demon 152]

Beaten by a smarter team.

Under pressure they'd kick off the ground or tap to keep the ball moving their way until they had a cleaner option, it turned many of their 50/50 or less contests into wins while we'd try and pick it up and handpass as if it was dry, apologies to Vince and Tyson who played smarter than that.

What's all the handwringing about the umpires? Other than the duck paid to the Hawk in the last they were fine

[DeeSpencer 24,795]

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Thanks for the answerd guys. Hopefully Frost playing well means no Garland for a while.

Frost sure looked like he could settle in for a while as full back. Garland might come in to considerations as a third tall, which - at least defensively - is a spot that would suit him much more. 

[Adam The God 29,435]

34 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Oliver will eventually be A grade. Best ball user/Decision maker/evader of the lot . Vince was fantastic today also. Jones/Tyson got alot of It but decision making/disposal of Jones was (at times) horrid and didnt have the polish/penatration needed to have a huge Impact when he could have. 

Nice effort from the mid field, especially with Gawn dropping away In the 2nd half.

Stretch/Hunt solid. What the hec was Garlett doing today. Admittedly  conditions didnt suit him and some of the delivery not great but he was almost unsighted

Another dissapointing loss to this mob when the chance was there to get them at a low ebb ( troop wise).

Oliver will be A grade, as will Tyson, as will Petracca. Love him, but not entirely sold on Brayshaw becoming an A grader. Not sure where Salem sits, but I did have high hopes for him. Viney will become an A grader if he can shrug a tag. There's still not enough elite midfield talent on the list though. Vince and Jones can play elite games, but they're not elite players IMO. Both solid B+ graders. They can't be the front line every week. It worked pretty well today due to the sluggish conditions. Vince and Jones' high, often directionless kicks worked, because we just needed to get it moving forward in the wet and put the opposition under pressure inside forward 50, but they both lack the time that an Oliver does.

I think our younger players showed some really positive signs today though. Hunt, Frost, Oscar McDonald, Wagner, Oliver all showed some more glimpses of what they will become. I can see Hunt becoming a better version of Lumumba. Electric pace than enables him to break the lines, but he also exhibits a really good defensive game. Some of his spoils are brilliant for a player of his size.

I think Stretch will better for today's game. He panicked for mine a bit today, but that was against a high pressure opposition and at the end of the day he wasn't completely shown up. Petracca the same. We need to get high pressure games into these young kids, so they know where they have to get to.

Jeffy has probably played his two worse games for the club two weeks in a row. He was so unclean today, in conditions that would normally suit him.

Hate losing to that mob. Their supporters have always been so smug, even before the 2008 flag. Didn't help my fiancée was sending me 'Go Hawks' text messages throughout the game as well. What a piece of work.

Edited June 4, 2016 by AdamFarr

[Soidee 1,496]

Matthew 3 knobs Lloyd said that we need a Darcy Parish.  The flogger said Oliver does not have the pace of Parish.  He cannot help himself, had to insert Essendon into his commentary. He is a A grade [censored].

[waynewussell 4,873]

I can't understand how the umpiring fraternity get so sucked in to the blatant ducking. It would be fixed in two consecutive weekends if those who get paid for understanding the rules (but have no sense of the spirit of the game - Vince's report a case in point!) were informed by the hierarchy that they are being made to look stupid by first gamers who have learnt how to milk these professional adjudicators in front of 50,000 witnesses!!!!!!!

Edited June 4, 2016 by waynewussell

[Kumamoto_Ken 1,531]

1 minute ago, AdamFarr said:

Hate losing to that mob. Their supporters have always been so smug, even before the 2008 flag. Didn't help my fiancée was sending me 'Go Hawks' text messages throughout the game as well. What a piece of work.

You're not married yet...

[Steno 200]

As an aside, nearly 3/4 time at GWS vs Cats. Jeremy Cameron only has one mark and two kicks. I guess GWS will be dropping or delisting him soon?

[Lord Travis 10,492]

Our small forward need to lift their intensity. Kent, Harmes and Garlett were all average and gave no defensive pressure. When we've played well they've been involved and held the ball in our forward 50. It was a stark contrast watching them jog around and have no impact and up the other end Bruest, Rioli, Puopolo, Shiels etc all locked it in when they got it. When it went into our 50 if we didn't get a clean break and score it shot straight up the other end without pressure from those half forwards. We're not skilled enough or good enough yet to carry players who have 1-2 effective disposals a game like Harmes did today. 10 Disposals with only 2 effective is just pure rubbish. If he's not kicking goals, not setting up goals, not laying heaps of tackles and locking the ball in... then what value does he add at present?

The midfield worked hard today and did their job. We need to bring that intensity every game if we want to win. Simple. We still need more A grade midfielders too so hopefully we land Prestia or another talent to add in there to go with the young kids we've amassed.

[Adam The God 29,435]

16 minutes ago, Biffen said:

We did not do a lot wrong.

Probably the best game we have played in many years.

Some dodgy frees against leading to direct goals

Cannot fault too many players.

Nice to see Mitchell and Gunston hobbling but we should have roughed them up more

May the HFC all catch the Ebola virus as soon as possible.

Coaching staff excluded.

I thought we were really inefficient going forward in the first quarter and we played some pretty dumb footy. But inexperience will do that. We needed to adjust our game to wet weather play. That's why we were leading the CPs and clearances but failed to lead on the scoreboard or even convert that dominance to scoring shots of any kind.

If you were to look at the scoreboard today, you might be forgiven (if you were a little thick) for thinking the Hawks poor kicking meant the result was a lot closer, but I actually think we were a lot closer on the day than a three goal margin.

[Demon Dynasty 17,094]

5 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

Oliver will A grade, as will Tyson, as will Petracca. Love him, but not entirely sold on Brayshaw becoming an A grader. Not sure where Salem sits, but I did have high hopes for him. Viney will become an A grader if he can shrug a tag. There's still not enough elite midfield talent on the list though. Vince and Jones can play elite games, but they're not elite players IMO. Both solid B+ graders. They can't be the front line every week. It worked pretty well today due to the sluggish conditions. Vince and Jones' high, often directionless kicks worked, because we just needed to get it moving forward in the wet and put the opposition under pressure inside forward 50, but they both lack the time that an Oliver does.

I think our younger players showed some really positive signs today though. Hunt, Frost, Oscar McDonald, Wagner, Oliver all showed some more glimpses of what they will become. I can see Hunt becoming a better version of Lumumba. Electric pace than enables him to break the lines, but also exhibiting a really good defensive game. Some of his spoils are brilliant for a player of his size.

I think Stretch will better for today's game. He panicked for mine a bit today, but that was against a high pressure opposition and at the end of the day he wasn't completely shown up. Petracca the same. We need to get high pressure games into these young kids, so they know where they have to get to.

Jeffy has probably played his two worse games for the club two weeks in a row. He was so unclean today, in conditions that would normally suit him.

Hate losing to that mob. Their supporters have always been so smug, even before the 2008 flag. Didn't help my fiancée was sending me 'Go Hawks' text messages throughout the game as well. What a piece of work.

A pretty good assessment really. For your health's sake I hope she Isnt on here Adam!

[Adam The God 29,435]

24 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

We beat them easily around the contest, but I Nath Jones was making bad decisions and Bernie probably hacking it forward too much in the end. So they didn't quite dominate as much as they could. 

Then we just don't have enough on the wing/half back and half forward to capitalise on the clearance advantage.

Dawes did a few good things but just isn't going to hold marks any time soon, his technique is shocking. Sprint under the ball, don't jump, hope like held his concrete hands hold them. Garlett was terrible. Kent not much better and Harmes burnt chances. Unless Watts or Petracca got involved - in Tracc's case by hand or by winning it and getting it on quickly - we didn't look all that dangerous forward and the defensive pressure dropped away. 

Similarly we are a mile off it down back. 

Agree with everything but 'we are a mile off it down back'.

Edited June 4, 2016 by AdamFarr

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, Lord Travis said:

Our small forward need to lift their intensity. Kent, Harmes and Garlett were all average and gave no defensive pressure. When we've played well they've been involved and held the ball in our forward 50. It was a stark contrast watching them jog around and have no impact and up the other end Bruest, Rioli, Puopolo, Shiels etc all locked it in when they got it. When it went into our 50 if we didn't get a clean break and score it shot straight up the other end without pressure from those half forwards. We're not skilled enough or good enough yet to carry players who have 1-2 effective disposals a game like Harmes did today. 10 Disposals with only 2 effective is just pure rubbish. If he's not kicking goals, not setting up goals, not laying heaps of tackles and locking the ball in... then what value does he add at present?

The midfield worked hard today and did their job. We need to bring that intensity every game if we want to win. Simple. We still need more A grade midfielders too so hopefully we land Prestia or another talent to add in there to go with the young kids we've amassed.

Pretty spot on assessment Trav.  Our small forwards over the last two weeks have been sub par, and while Kennedy was the one dropped last week, you could argue that both Kent and Harmes have been very lucky.  Garlett has been very poor over the last two weeks but he has some credits in the bank.  If our small forwards don't apply pressure and snag a few goals, then as you say, they don't give us much value.  Kent was at least a little better today, but Harmes had 2 opportunities to kick important goals and he fluffed them both.

[Adam The God 29,435]

17 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Frost sure looked like he could settle in for a while as full back. Garland might come in to considerations as a third tall, which - at least defensively - is a spot that would suit him much more. 

I was really impressed with Frost's ability to sprint at an opponent and lay a crunching quick tackle. Most of the time he managed not to give the free kick away, but was unlucky once or twice. I know it was wet, but I was arguably most excited by Frost's game.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

13 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

We beat them easily around the contest, but I Nath Jones was making bad decisions and Bernie probably hacking it forward too much in the end. So they didn't quite dominate as much as they could. 

Then we just don't have enough on the wing/half back and half forward to capitalise on the clearance advantage.

Dawes did a few good things but just isn't going to hold marks any time soon, his technique is shocking. Sprint under the ball, don't jump, hope like held his concrete hands hold them. Garlett was terrible. Kent not much better and Harmes burnt chances. Unless Watts or Petracca got involved - in Tracc's case by hand or by winning it and getting it on quickly - we didn't look all that dangerous forward and the defensive pressure dropped away. 

Similarly we are a mile off it down back. 

Thought Tracca was solid though, especially for a 5th game player or whatever he is.

[Lucifers Hero 38,985]

We didn't get the chocolates but a great team effort today.  Our much maligned youngsters in defence were fantastic!  Hawks kicked 11.16.82.  The 16 behinds were often a result of pressure by our defenders on the ball carrier or rushed behinds.

Compare to Hawks' 2015 score: Hawk 24.15.155. 

For those wanting Dunn and Grimes back, have another look at those scores.  Which defence leaked like a sieve?  And, have a look at both replays.  The kids gave it their all and did a mammoth job on far more experienced opponents.

I think Roos was firmly in control of the game plan today!!  Old fashioned defence and no Hawks player got out the back today!

Can't wait for the return match on Sat Aug 6!

Edited June 4, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero

[Deeoldfart 7,996]

50 minutes ago, H_T said:

I love the skipper, but I do agree with this. There were a few hot handed handballs too that put his teammates under the pump.

I generally agree HT, but the pressure around the ball in very tough, wet conditions and congestion, meant that surety with the ball was bloody difficult.

[Tony Tea 2,806]

Two things.

1. Unable to link up bringing the ball out of defence.

2. Need to find alternative targets in the forward line.

[Old Bear 388]

Can't believe there's not a separate post on how bad Dawes was today

Best  looking highly educated overpaid Witches Hat ever to grace the MCG

Normally not a knocker and think he's a great clubman but career over

Pedersen so much more value

 

[Lucifers Hero 38,985]

Very thoughtful of our Cheer Squad.  The non-player side of our banner today.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero