Jones is better than Ablett

[stuie 7,374]

Good read, good sentiment. Bloke is starting to get noticed finally.

http://www.sen.com.au/news/04-15/suns-need-to-keep-up-with-jones

[beelzebub 23,383]

Good read, good sentiment. Bloke is starting to get noticed finally.

http://www.sen.com.au/news/04-15/suns-need-to-keep-up-with-jones

My first reaction was....Someone's f*#@king dreaming !! However the reasoning is interesting.

Id still rather a fit Ablett ( sorry Chunk ) but its because Ablett is freakish.

Still...id settle atm for a really fit Jones.

Good pickup Stu

[nutbean 8,838]

I agree with many of his sentiments but if I was recruiting for GC from the onset - given the choice between Gaz or Jones - I still would take Ablett in a heartbeat

[picket fence 17,500]

Anyone that thinks Nathan Jones is as good as Ablett is totally deeeeeeeluded!.

Not in a month of Sundays!

As Highly as I rate Nathan Jones, Ablett is in another cosmos!

[DeeSpencer 26,081]

Think it's a bit of reactionary BS.

Jones is talented. He's not all just hard work. He's a very good kick these days and has a talent for finding the footy.

Ablett might not always be at the bottom of packs but mainly because he's got brilliant balance and evasive skills. He wins as much contested footy as anyone when he's on. Tackles very well too.

The current Ablett of the last two weeks is not a special player and not a good captain. Protecting your body and shying away from contact isn't a good way to lead, even if it's impressive to be even out there. Only his fellow Gold Coast players would know how injured he has been and what to make of it.

I love Jonesy. He's a very good player and a very good captain. But I think Burke is getting carried away saying he's better than Ablett.

I don't know if Jones is also carrying an injury or just sore but I hope he can put in a captains performance this week. We're going to need it.

[KingDingAling 3,758]

Contrary of what Demonland has tried to tell me the past 3 years, Nathan Jones is actually a very good leader.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

Nathan jones is a far better leader/ captain than Ablett imo, not in the same league as a player though. He is very good but Gary is something else.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Contrary of what Demonland has tried to tell me the past 3 years, Nathan Jones is actually a very good leader.

Ive really no idea about this. So many variable and nuances that we the unwashed public just arent privy to make it hard to gauge ( i think) . He does strike me as someone youd feel happier playing for you, in the trenches etc. I have the idea the team stands a little taller when he's on song. Conversely when hes not they slump. Maybe that in itself is a measure.

We are better i think with a solo captain and if Roos thinks hes up to it, then thats fine by me. I would however prefer it if others felt the desire to fill the void or take a step in the Jones direction and "lead"

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

When Jones starts to bust open packs at will, get a couple of flags under his belt and a Brownlow on his resume, I might entertain the comparison.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,510]

The article seems to be confusing itself.

Jones as the hard working, blue collar, fearless and determined footballer may be a better leader than Ablett...

but there is absolutely no way you could say that he is a better 'footballer' than GAJ.

Jones is great and I love him to death, but Ablett is simply a once in a generation, possibly all time, player.

[dazzledavey36 55,329]

Title of the thread a bit misleading..

[Red and Bluebeard 2,090]

Title of the thread a bit misleading..

Years ago, there was a discussion in NBA circles about the relative merits of Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson. Just about everyone said Jordan was the better player, but when asked who they would pick first for their team, nearly all coaches and the like asked said Johnson. When asked why, the answer was generally a variation on "Jordan is a better one-on-one player, but Johnson makes everyone on the team better". I think Nathan Burke was saying something similar. In terms of playing ability, let alone Brownlows, premierships, etc., Ablett is the better player. But Jones is more valuable to the team.

[Grimes Times 1,278]

Where was Jones when GWS piled on 14 goals in a row???

Still needs to take his game to that next level where he can change the course of a game.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Where was Jones when GWS piled on 14 goals in a row???

Still needs to take his game to that next level where he can change the course of a game.

very good point

[Nasher 33,617]

Where was Jones when GWS piled on 14 goals in a row???

Still needs to take his game to that next level where he can change the course of a game.

I dismiss Jones' game against GWS as an anomaly. Don't know if he was ill or what, but even if he was 100%, in terms of output it was a major outlier.

[praha 11,240]

It's an interesting sentiment, but it makes the assertion that Ablett is neither a/as good a leader as Jones, nor someone that is able to lift GC off the bottom half of the ladder.

Now, a good "leader" is not necessarily one that leads from the front and is the best player. A leader "empowers" those around them to get the most out of themselves.

Is Jones good at that? I think that objectively this is certainly up for debate: in the training of Melbourne that I've watched, he's far from the most vocal and directive, although that hardly dismisses his leadership capabilities. Does he lead from the front? He does, but I'm not sure he's at a level where people are necessarily empowered to over-perform in the same way they do under an Ablett or a Selwood. We've seen how Melbourne has been the last 2-3 years. We've hit rock bottom. What has Jones done for the team as a whole apart from being its only consistent, respected player?

Jones is a *very* hard midfielder, but you have to question where the Suns would be if they had him as opposed to Ablett.

Would they have won so many games in the first half of 2014?

Would they have been considered (and maybe still are) a finals contender?

Overall, would Jones have been better overall for the Suns?

I'm not sure.

I love Jones, I really do, but he's a "go through the motions" kind of guy. His best is good, rarely great. He'd be an asset to ANY team but, even as Roos said last year, he needs to go to the next level.

Let's say Tyson, Viney, Brayshaw and Petracca all end up AA midfielders and top 50 AFL players: does Jones still get a game?

Again, I'm not dismissing Jones' skill or leadership capabilities. But in a way I feel that Jones kind of epitomises this club: when this club is good, it's good, never great. It never goes to the next level.

Last week really disappointed me, but evidently it appears as though Jones was sick/injured. He needs to reach another level and unless he does, we'll have to wait for the likes of Tyson, Brayshaw etc to build their experience and skill up to lead the club. Because atm, Jones' best isn't doing much in the way of empowering the players to play for one another.

So I disagree. Ablett might not be the *best* leader, but there's no price on playing under the likes of Ablett. I know a Suns midfielder who reckons he's just a great guy, easy to talk to. He's a bit of a loner but at the same time, he sets such a high standard that you can't help but be inspired.

This is really a deep discussion that could go either way. I don't think you can put a price on having young players play under a once-in-a-generation type player like Ablett. Jones is just what you have to expect from a midfielder. He's far from exceptional.

That said, Melbourne is *VERY* lucky to have him. The last 2-3 years would have been a lot darker.

Edited April 17, 2015 by praha

[nutbean 8,838]

Years ago, there was a discussion in NBA circles about the relative merits of Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson. Just about everyone said Jordan was the better player, but when asked who they would pick first for their team, nearly all coaches and the like asked said Johnson. When asked why, the answer was generally a variation on "Jordan is a better one-on-one player, but Johnson makes everyone on the team better". I think Nathan Burke was saying something similar. In terms of playing ability, let alone Brownlows, premierships, etc., Ablett is the better player. But Jones is more valuable to the team.

Everyone loves the romance of the blue collar worker and he "heart and soul" type stuff but the problem with those hypothetical choices is that they are just that...hypothetical.

I am tipping despite what was said that if NBA coaches were actually given the choice of who they would pick first it would be Jordan and Ablett in a heartbeat.

It's like the Judd and Hodge discussion - You hear that Hodge is the first person you want in the trenches in the battle. Given an actual choice at both of these players at the height of their powers - would you really take Hodges best over Judds ?

[ManDee 7,222]

Where was Jones when GWS piled on 14 goals in a row???

Still needs to take his game to that next level where he can change the course of a game.

I cannot remember Jones's last bad game.

[nutbean 8,838]

Where was Jones when GWS piled on 14 goals in a row???

Still needs to take his game to that next level where he can change the course of a game.

Where was Ablett in round one ? You really want to take one game in isolation ?

You can criticise Jones for a little lack of "silk" but his greatest strength over the last 4 seasons is that the gap between his best and worst is quite narrow.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,966]

Anyone that thinks Nathan Jones is as good as Ablett is totally deeeeeeeluded!.

Not in a month of Sundays!

As Highly as I rate Nathan Jones, Ablett is in another cosmos!

Read the article, it's not about being as good as him on the field.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I agree with many of his sentiments but if I was recruiting for GC from the onset - given the choice between Gaz or Jones - I still would take Ablett in a heartbeat

It all makes sense for a football club in GCS position bar one factor, marketing.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

Nathan Jones isn't a better player, but he is a better leader

Ablett is a star, but there is a reason he wasn't a leader in Geelong. GC put him in a captaincy role for possibly all the wrong reasons, but it was a matter of "nobody better" being available at the time.

Jones embodies the single consistently good thing that this club has had in the past 10 years. Think about that and how important the impact of that is!

[nutbean 8,838]

It all makes sense for a football club in GCS position bar one factor, marketing.

I still don't think so - i agree that GCS are too Gaz-centric - but one thing gets bums on seats and that's wins - It is no coincidence that GCS didn't win a game after Gaz got injured - he wins games off his own boot.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I still don't think so - i agree that GCS are too Gaz-centric - but one thing gets bums on seats and that's wins - It is no coincidence that GCS didn't win a game after Gaz got injured - he wins games off his own boot.

Yes but Burke is looking at it from a developmental pov. I agree with him that long term Jones would have been a better captain of GCS.

Edit: add "In hindsight"

Edited April 17, 2015 by jabberwocky

[markc 975]

i have said before that GC Look for Ablett way too much

not sure i would agree re jones v albett

but it was a good read