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Gee......I remember a few years ago...Posters were complaining about N. Jones doing the same thing

Jack is 20 years old FCS Played 33 games

Yeah I could quite easily see that comparison.

I was thinking last night that Viney should've been strapped to Jones during pre-season.

Early on in his career N.Jones was not dissimilar to Viney, in that they both had one pace - flat out.

Jones has learnt to harness his pace and aggression and use it more instrumentally.

Because of this, Jones evasiveness now stands out. But atm Jack Viney goes too hard too soon.

The fact that Viney hasn't rectified this after the past couple of years says to me that he mightn't be the sharpest tool in the shed.

Edited by KingDingAling
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Jack must improve his kicking action and accuracy before he can even think of becoming an elite mid.

It could be a blessing that the spotlight fell on him last night in a practise game.

Toumpas still is way off AFL standard as well. Still looks timid. Not a good sign going into year 3.

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Jack must improve his kicking action and accuracy before he can even think of becoming an elite mid.

It could be a blessing that the spotlight fell on him last night in a practise game.

Toumpas still is way off AFL standard as well. Still looks timid. Not a good sign going into year 3.

Let's face it both players are playing for their careers at this point, especially Toumpas.

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Let's face it both players are playing for their careers at this point, especially Toumpas.

Yep. That is the reality and i hope it is the way it is.

These guys have no reputation. If they do not improve with hard work they won't make it

I don't want to hear anyone on here say that Jack Viney is a gun. He isn't

With hard work he could be.

His dad was a gun. I can still hear that first goal go through in the '87 Elimination Final. The roar was huge

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Bail, M. Jones, Garland, Grimes, Toumpas, and to a lesser extent, Dawes and Viney, is why we are crap. Look at those first 5- too many flaws between them to have in the same side and expect to be competitive.

Between them we have players who can't take basic chest marks, can't hit the side of a barn, can't keep fluidity in ball movement, can't hanball or kick to advantage, can't sheppard, or are too slow.

Nice guys or not, We will remain crap until whoever I named can improve on the basics, or we have players who can replace them.

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Viney has come in and had to be the 3rd best mid in his first year, and the 6th best mid in his 2nd and 3rd years.

Of course he looks out of his depth at times - he is out of his depth.

Nathan Jones had similar criticisms and he had enough internal drive to improve and become accustomed to the responsibility he had to burden.

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To be honest the kick across goal was irrelevant. If we retained possession and won by 5 points would the game have been any better?

Can see where you're coming from, but the answer for this group is a definite yes.

A win wouldn't have masked the errors, but it's always better than a loss in terms of building belief in what you're doing.

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It simply wasnt a good decision for a guy that struggles to kick effectively more than 35-40 m whilst seemingly oblivious to where certain of his opposition were placed....but all that aside you protect the ball in the deaththrows of a game. This was the glaring error. He'll learn. He'll /we'll be better for it.

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Not much mentioned about Cross with how many years experience, did he call for the ball or was he just playing the loose player near the goal square in case they tried to dribble one through. I know it is frustrating with young players when they make mistakes, it is how they respond to the mistakes that count. Judge Viney on his future actions, not on that one kick.

One big problem I think we have at the moment is that play that Viney attempted is always the first thought players have in the backline and we are missing opportunities down the line/ through the corridor, watch footage of Garland/Grimes(especially after marks) , ball in the range of defensive 50m to the square they and others often look sideways and kick sideways, missing out on better opportunities closer to goal.

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Why would an AFL football even consider kicking across the face of goal deep in defence?

Players will make mistakes when under pressure, tired or when rushed but what Viney did should never happen.

The idea of kicking across the face of goal should not even enter his mind. It's like suddenly deciding that drinking battery acid is a good idea, it just should not ever happen, especially from a free kick with no pressure.

My Dad constantly complains about this also. As he says, back when he played if someone had done that they'd be benched (this is of course back when the interchange wasn't used 100 times a game and a benched player was generally gone for the whole match). No matter what spin you put on it, kicking across the face is a lower percentage play than down the line.

Of course, it's not the only football basic our team tends to fail at. They also don't know how to kick to a lead, how to kick to the advantage side of a contest, how to create space for their forwards or how to put on a decent block. Most of this you would think is stuff they should have learned in juniors.

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At this point of the game you allow numbers back. Hopefully a couple present options for a pass and possession. Repeat process.

At either high half flank or on wing then is when you might center and even cobtinue across too opposite hff. All the whiles protecting the ball Worse case becomes 2 or more kicks for opponents to score. This you might defend.

We have to be better than fri night.

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Yep, and having X amount of star players (or very good+ players) is directly related to wins.

It's a very simplistic way of viewing a list but 'potential' doesn't win games. The top quality players can carry others but average players (or worse) are always going to be more concerned about their own form. Also, the best players bring others into the game and that's an area where we're sadly lacking.

The Hawks have a stack of top players (14+) whilst we've got less than a handful.

Until we've got at least another 6 players who are as good (or better) than N Jones or Tyson, we can't hope to win 10 games or more. That is an obvious summation but it's a tried and true method of how our game works.

5 or 6 of our players have the capacity to step it up but at this moment in time they're all still at the potential stage.

Edit: grammar

This is all true..and probably evident in the fact that Lumumba suddenly looks our best player (besides Jones maybe), but playing for Collingwood he would have probably been the 10th best player.

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This is all true..and probably evident in the fact that Lumumba suddenly looks our best player (besides Jones maybe), but playing for Collingwood he would have probably been the 10th best player.

actually 4th in 2014 copeland trophy

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It's plain ridiculous to suggest that Jack Viney is playing for his career.

Then perhaps it should be the thread title.

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Guys, I agree last night's game was extremely disapointing. But what we're feeling now is probably very similar to what the Tiges supporters felt like after being beaten by us in last years pre-season. Their year turned out all right.

Sure we have some serious team psyche issues but things can change quickly. And momentum is a very, very powerful thing...

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This is all true..and probably evident in the fact that Lumumba suddenly looks our best player (besides Jones maybe), but playing for Collingwood he would have probably been the 10th best player.

I've always rated Lumumba highly and if he stays injury free, he's a real chance to finish at least in our top 3 in the B&F

And what that does is highlight how poor our list is when Lumumba, Cross and Vince almost automatically become our best players as soon as they come into the club (Tyson is another import who has already become one of our best)

Doesn't say much for the rest of the list unfortunately ... good recruiting aside, we've got to start seeing some real improvement in those who have been on the list for 4+ years (or players who have played for at least that amount of time) Of course, we've been saying that every year for quite some time now ...

If we were to rate our list on actual output, it's a sorry tale.

Grimes, Dunn, Garland, Watts, Gawn, Dawes, McKenzie, Pedersen, Fitzpatrick, Howe, Jetta, Spencer, Bail, M Jones & Terlich all need to step it up this season. One decent year from a lot of them just doesn't cut it. Jetta & Dunn were much better last season whilst Pedersen & Howe were reasonable ... but, by league standards, most, if not all, have had below average careers so far.

Jamar and T-Mac are another 2 who need to get better. In fact, all our players need to improve but many need to improve a lot. The younger blokes and recent draftees should be left to develop without too much undue pressure.

I reckon the match committee will be giving games to as many of the new players as is possible. I'm expecting Michie, vandenBerg, Frost, Newton and maybe Riley to be given every chance to establish themselves in the seniors ... maybe not so much the recent draftees but if we draw a line through last season, Salem & JKH both played about half the games (albeit as subs a fair bit of the time) Stretch, ANB, Brayshaw, O-Mac & Hunt could all get called up sooner than Roos would ideally like.

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Macca, your post's are always a pleasure to read.

Thanks Utah

I actually have high ambition for our players ... and our players need to have high ambition for themselves. Rather than writing anyone off, I'd much rather see any player be the best player they can be.

As an example, Nathan Jones should set himself a target of 30+ goals for the season. That's 1 or 2 goals a game and he is quite capable of achieving that goal. He should back himself in to becoming an absolute elite footballer. A lot of the best midfielders have a goal kicking attribute to their footy. He's a nice kick for goal so he just needs to work his way within range a lot more.

What would be ideal is us having 10-12 good footballers driving the standards. Top players are never satisfied - that's what makes them top players (as long as they've got the skills of course) We bring in or developing 2 or 3 top players every season and before you know it, we'll have those 10-12 top players.

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Macca, your post's are always a pleasure to read.

Indeed. I don't always agree with you Macca (and you probably know over what area) but your arguments are usually logical and you are always very gracious.

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Gee......I remember a few years ago...Posters were complaining about N. Jones doing the same thing

Jack is 20 years old FCS Played 33 games

This can not be stated more clearly. Everyone read it and move on.

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Indeed. I don't always agree with you Macca (and you probably know over what area) but your arguments are usually logical and you are always very gracious.

Yep, certain subject matter is always going to divide opinion ... however, most here generally agree on many matters - for example ... the Roos appointment, the PJ appointment, the AFL stepping in in early 2013, the move away from the Junction oval to AAMI, our recruiting in the last 2 off seasons, getting Hogan in the mini draft and many other such decisions were all accepted quite readily by the large majority.

Most of the conflict here wouldn't even exist if we were to have consistent winning seasons. Losing constantly is never going to make any supporter happy - look at the reaction to Friday night? We're so hungry for wins that even the practice games are carrying too much weight. Does anyone even remember if we won our practice games during the Northey or Daniher era's? I certainly don't remember nor do I care whether we won those scratch matches or not. The season proper is what matters most.

I'm big on having enough top players on our list so we can win games of football - we've got to find a way to bring in quality free agents ... and, we need Roos to develop our young players into top liners. Do both and we'll be winning again.

By the way CBF, all [censored] talk should be banned from this site so the likes of myself can't comment any further on the matter ^_^

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One mistake didn't lose the game.

20 stupid turnovers cost us the game.

Hogan dropping that lace out pass from Toumpas.

Bail Dropping an uncontested mark

Gawn handballing to Tyson laying on the ground

Dawes dropping another chest mark

Grimes stupid floating kick in landing directly to an opponent.

I could go on but I'm getting writers cramp.

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