Training - Monday 16th December, 2013

[beelzebub 22,587]

It's beyond me also...

Simulating match like drills at a high intensity over the course of a couple of hours seems the most logical approach to improving teams. It's football specific running. A tailored running program made for AFL football whilst still working on the skills required.

only a visionary could think this stuff up

and only a divisionary would think to stuff up !!

[Slartibartfast 16,056]

you really have to wonder why its taken so long for a coach to take this commonsense approach...I mean...WTF were the other fools up to !!

Whispering Jack explains here: Clearly I agree with you but many don't.

'Bob might have heard some scuttlebutt from anonymous opposition FD people but I have heard differently from others including some of our players. We must have had around 30 training threads from last year's pre season on Demonland and if the group was being flogged too hard we would have heard it at the time. I recall even hearing Denham on SEN commenting (grudgingly perhaps) that Neeld was correctly training the players harder than they were under Bailey and how necessary it was to break the bruise-free mindset of some players. Neeld and Misson explained more than once that they were trying to bring the players up to the standards of the leading teams like Collingwood. The process was a stepped one going from 60% in 2011/12 to 80% in 2012/13 and then 100% now. I also heard this praised in the media at the time for being safer with young players compared to The Weapon's program at Essendon

Interesting Jack quotes Denham in support of his position having once said

Day after day that fool Denham of the Australian gets it wrong when it comes to Melbourne

Anyway I suppose it's just what suits you on the day. And what would opposition footy departments know anyway. I mean look what we've achieved.... oh, wait

[Satyriconhome 10,015]

It's beyond me also...

Simulating match like drills at a high intensity over the course of a couple of hours seems the most logical approach to improving teams. It's football specific running. A tailored running program made for AFL football whilst still working on the skills required.

Come on guys we have all been watching it....Bailey loved footy players not athletes so we recruited footy players and coached them to play footy, when it clicked it was wonderful to watch, when we ran out of legs it was horrible.......Neeld comes in and hammers them trying to turn them into athletes and forgets how to play footy................that is why Peter Jackson moved heaven and earth to get Roos and the team he has assembled..............just watching training by the way, Brad Miller was an inspired choice, he is a natural coach

[Pennant St Dee 11,650]

Thanks for the reports lads Pennant has found time to look up the computer from is so far 3 week drinking binge in Eire all looking good for 2014 and a better performance all round. By the way lads first Sunday out I went out with a polo shirt underneath the Demon jersey and was offered 300 euro for the demon jersey by someone in the pub who said they went to school with big Jimma. Anyway knocked the offer back and just cant wait to get back and see the lads next year Come on you boys

[old dee 23,122]

Thanks for the reports lads Pennant has found time to look up the computer from is so far 3 week drinking binge in Eire all looking good for 2014 and a better performance all round. By the way lads first Sunday out I went out with a polo shirt underneath the Demon jersey and was offered 300 euro for the demon jersey by someone in the pub who said they went to school with big Jimma. Anyway knocked the offer back and just cant wait to get back and see the lads next year Come on you boys

PSD get the guys address I will sell him one for 300 euro!

[beelzebub 22,587]

PSD get the guys address I will sell him one for 300 euro!

and I...lol

[Supermercado 2,650]

Dawes pros and cons:

Cons- cost a high draft pick, 500k a year and can't catch a footy

Pros:???? He's smart???

Took our second most contested marks last year despite only playing 12 games. Was more than happy with his performances in a vile team when he got on the park.

And really, since when has 20 counted as a 'high' pick?

[Maldonboy38 6,052]

Come on guys we have all been watching it....Bailey loved footy players not athletes so we recruited footy players and coached them to play footy, when it clicked it was wonderful to watch, when we ran out of legs it was horrible.......Neeld comes in and hammers them trying to turn them into athletes and forgets how to play footy................that is why Peter Jackson moved heaven and earth to get Roos and the team he has assembled..............just watching training by the way, Brad Miller was an inspired choice, he is a natural coach

Exactly right. The more I reflect on Bailey as a coach the more I am convinced he was actually a good coach. The recruiting & developing staff around him were atrocious (he should have seen this) and the administration was mind-boggling poor, but Bailey's attacking football was exhilarating to watch. If he could have got them fit enough for the modern two way run it might have worked. We will never know.

[The Chazz 4,077]

you really have to wonder why its taken so long for a coach to take this commonsense approach...I mean...WTF were the other fools up to !!

(Disclaimer: please turn your sarcasim meter on prior to reading)

B59, I swear you have a book of one-liners that you bring out during the first preseason of a new coach. I'm sure I read similar comments from you during Neeld's first preseason, and I think they were the same ones that were posted during Bailey's first preseason.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

Exactly right. The more I reflect on Bailey as a coach the more I am convinced he was actually a good coach. The recruiting & developing staff around him were atrocious (he should have seen this) and the administration was mind-boggling poor, but Bailey's attacking football was exhilarating to watch. If he could have got them fit enough for the modern two way run it might have worked. We will never know.

The more I reflect on Bailey as a coach the more I'm convinced he was not a good coach.

You've pointed out one of his failings when you wrote "If he could have got them fit enough..." Surely his inability to get them fit enough was a significant failing. Yes, his attacking football was exhilarating to watch, but it happened too infrequently and the inability of the team to defend was highly problematic and surely another sign of coaching inadequacy.

This does not in any way mean that Bailey was not a top bloke. But that's not enough.

[beelzebub 22,587]

The more I reflect on Bailey as a coach the more I'm convinced he was not a good coach.

You've pointed out one of his failings when you wrote "If he could have got them fit enough..." Surely his inability to get them fit enough was a significant failing. Yes, his attacking football was exhilarating to watch, but it happened too infrequently and the inability of the team to defend was highly problematic and surely another sign of coaching inadequacy.

This does not in any way mean that Bailey was not a top bloke. But that's not enough.

this ^^

As time goes on more and more we hear of the tail wagging the dog. Far from acceptable.

[The Chazz 4,077]

The more I reflect on Bailey as a coach the more I'm convinced he was not a good coach.

You've pointed out one of his failings when you wrote "If he could have got them fit enough..." Surely his inability to get them fit enough was a significant failing. Yes, his attacking football was exhilarating to watch, but it happened too infrequently and the inability of the team to defend was highly problematic and surely another sign of coaching inadequacy.

This does not in any way mean that Bailey was not a top bloke. But that's not enough.

I have no doubt that Bailey's game plan came at the wrong time. He was implementing something that was different to most other clubs, and when worked, we all saw how impressive it was. The problem was that the industry standard game plan at the time, when executed well (see Hawthorn), would highlight the areas that needed fixing (ie fitness, 2-way running). I will never be disappointed with someone who tried to make his own path, rather than follow the masses.

Everything that was going on around the club (in particular offield) didn't give him the greatest base to work from either.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,521]

Exactly right. The more I reflect on Bailey as a coach the more I am convinced he was actually a good coach. The recruiting & developing staff around him were atrocious (he should have seen this) and the administration was mind-boggling poor, but Bailey's attacking football was exhilarating to watch. If he could have got them fit enough for the modern two way run it might have worked. We will never know.

To underscore your opinion, Bailey actually had a 11-11-1 record between rd 15 2010 and rd 17 2011.

[Maggot 1977 263]

Based on what I saw at training I recon we might see some big changes for next year. The followng would not surprise me as a starting side

Cross Frawley Terlich

McDonald Garland Grimes

Vince Trengove Watts

Howe Clark Hogan

Blease Dawes Toumpas

Gawn N Jones J Viney

Michie Tyson Firzpatrick Barry

LIKE YOUR TEAM, but doubt if Blease will be on the ground. Geeze Jamar will be starting from a long way back.

[DEE fence 4,567]

Sadly the only footy I'm going to see live in 2014 is training after none in 2013 (not that I missed much) am hoping there is something on between 20 Dec and 5 Jan. Of course if we make finals everything changes... It will be the first time my son sees 'Daddy's football'.

[Supermercado 2,650]

The more I reflect on Bailey as a coach the more I'm convinced he was not a good coach.

You've pointed out one of his failings when you wrote "If he could have got them fit enough..." Surely his inability to get them fit enough was a significant failing. Yes, his attacking football was exhilarating to watch, but it happened too infrequently and the inability of the team to defend was highly problematic and surely another sign of coaching inadequacy.

This does not in any way mean that Bailey was not a top bloke. But that's not enough.

I need to hear another perspective on the allegation in Jim Stynes' book that the players cancelled a training run because they CBF. If that's an example of what they were up to then no bloody wonder they didn't get fit.

[Grimes Times 1,278]

Thanks for the reports lads Pennant has found time to look up the computer from is so far 3 week drinking binge in Eire all looking good for 2014 and a better performance all round. By the way lads first Sunday out I went out with a polo shirt underneath the Demon jersey and was offered 300 euro for the demon jersey by someone in the pub who said they went to school with big Jimma. Anyway knocked the offer back and just cant wait to get back and see the lads next year Come on you boys

Offered 300 and said no!!! gee I would have given the jumper to him and then drank with him all night and help build some strong international relations. Its only a jumper, get a new one when you get home for gods sake.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,994]

Come on guys we have all been watching it....Bailey loved footy players not athletes so we recruited footy players and coached them to play footy, when it clicked it was wonderful to watch, when we ran out of legs it was horrible.......Neeld comes in and hammers them trying to turn them into athletes and forgets how to play footy................that is why Peter Jackson moved heaven and earth to get Roos and the team he has assembled..............just watching training by the way, Brad Miller was an inspired choice, he is a natural coach

I can't agree with the bolded statement. Bailey recruited for two things, kicking and speed. If he'd been after pure footballers we'd have had Rockliff in our team. His entire gameplan was built around fast attacking play and it fell apart under physical pressure, a fact that most opponents discovered very quickly. The legacy he left us was a group who were great when things were going their way but couldn't stand up to real pressure and didn't have the work ethic to run defensively as well as offensively. Too many players who looked a million dollars when they were in space but can't execute at all in under pressure. That is nothing like a footy player.

[McQueen 17,864]

Offered 300 and said no!!! gee I would have given the jumper to him and then drank with him all night and help build some strong international relations. Its only a jumper, get a new one when you get home for gods sake.

I'm quite attached to my jumpers so I can see why PSD didn't hand it over. Plus, they probably would've met him out the back of the bar with claw hammers afterwards to get their hard-earned back.

[Machsy 2,858]

I need to hear another perspective on the allegation in Jim Stynes' book that the players cancelled a training run because they CBF. If that's an example of what they were up to then no bloody wonder they didn't get fit.

Isn't it the coach's job to control and prevent this sort of player revolt?

He gave them too much autonomy that they obviously were unable to manage with maturity.

Guys like Moloney, Rivers, Green and Davey, whilst not necessarily bad people in all instances, just simply weren't adequate leaders.

Not enough for them to be handed the reigns in any capacity.

Bailey should've been able to identify and manage that.

[Machsy 2,858]

I can't agree with the bolded statement. Bailey recruited for two things, kicking and speed. If he'd been after pure footballers we'd have had Rockliff in our team. His entire gameplan was built around fast attacking play and it fell apart under physical pressure, a fact that most opponents discovered very quickly. The legacy he left us was a group who were great when things were going their way but couldn't stand up to real pressure and didn't have the work ethic to run defensively as well as offensively. Too many players who looked a million dollars when they were in space but can't execute at all in under pressure. That is nothing like a footy player.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but...

We intended to take Rockliff in the Rookie Draft, and probably would have taken him at pick 1 in the PSD, if it were not for the AFL making a concession on the eligibility of a supremely talented indigenous player that was simply too good to pass up.

Rockliff was a footballer, but still had serious question marks over where he would play at AFL level.

His fitness was appropriate for the position he mainly played - FF - and if he had the desire to develop the requisite fitness to be an AFL midfielder, it's begs the question, why hadn't he already made inroads to doing so?

Same question would have been asked of Cameron Ling.

Don't know what the answer is, but it's a serious question mark and there's many more that would have gone the other way.

[Undeeterred 2,896]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but...

We intended to take Rockliff in the Rookie Draft, and probably would have taken him at pick 1 in the PSD, if it were not for the AFL making a concession on the eligibility of a supremely talented indigenous player that was simply too good to pass up.

Rockliff was a footballer, but still had serious question marks over where he would play at AFL level.

His fitness was appropriate for the position he mainly played - FF - and if he had the desire to develop the requisite fitness to be an AFL midfielder, it's begs the question, why hadn't he already made inroads to doing so?

Same question would have been asked of Cameron Ling.

Don't know what the answer is, but it's a serious question mark and there's many more that would have gone the other way.

I'm not aware of the history of this - is that when we took Jurrah?

[Earl Hood 5,851]

Isn't it the coach's job to control and prevent this sort of player revolt?

He gave them too much autonomy that they obviously were unable to manage with maturity.

Guys like Moloney, Rivers, Green and Davey, whilst not necessarily bad people in all instances, just simply weren't adequate leaders.

Not enough for them to be handed the reigns in any capacity.

Bailey should've been able to identify and manage that.

But the inference here is that Bailey had control of his own destiny. I believe the reason for the schism in the Football Department at the time stems from Baileys frustration at decisions by Chris C and CS. They sent Junior on his way and Bruce, so our first tier leaders went out the door. Green and co were not the leaders we needed for 2011.

. I remember Robbo on SEN saying he was at a function with CS and Don Mclardy a few years ago and debating with Schwab about the recruits MFC should be chasing and he was adamant that CS was obsessed with nimble, fast running outside receivers as the future of footy. This doesn't surprise me at all and explains much of our first round recruiting. We blame Bailey for much of our failings but I doubt he had full control and we know he had SFA resources. In 2010 we were on track playing competitive football. A year later we were in a death spiral with a dysfunctional FD.

[monoccular 16,514]

I have no issue with bagging for players being unfit, lazy or looking disinterested but getting stuck into a player for being injured is just plain disrespectful.

Touché

Who is "Robinson Crusoe reverend"?

Maybe it is our singing Russell (ex#24) hoping to be Robertson Caruso?

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Riley is progressing and is exactly where they want him to be, about a couple of weeks away from running

Thanks. This guy has upside.