Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[markc 975]

I was just speaking to some bombers supporters at the gym and they were arguing that they are innocent, I find it hard to believe how many people are in denial

i have had the same with customers , they still believe that they didn't do anything wrong at all

what about what watson said on the couch ?? didn't he say he took them ??

[titan_uranus 25,020]

ASADA through its CEO has said that it is prepared to accept a No Fault finding, based on an acceptance by the individual admitting taking banned drugs. It has further said that it believes the players may have been duped into taking banned drugs while being told they were legal.

Co-operation by the players and the guilty plea could lead to a 75% reduction of the mandatory 2 year ban and in an unbelievable move, they have even offered to accept part of the ban in the off season. That means if Player A pleads guilty and co-operates with further interviews, he would be banned for the rest of this season and from training with the club until the end of the year. In Jobe Watson's case he would probably keep his Brownlow. In other player's cases they would be free to play and train from January 1, next year, have the whole matter behind them and not be regarded as a drug cheat, who knowingly took banned drugs.

I think the Mafia call that an offer too good to refuse.

The alternative is to fight on for years, with the reultant mental, physical and financial strain and probably cop 2 years anyway at the end of it all.

Oh I see what you mean.

That 'no fault' clause doesn't mean you don't get found guilty of the offence though. It's called 'No Significant Fault or Negligence', which is about mitigating the penalty. So you're still found guilty of an offence, but your penalty is reduced because you have no significant fault in the matter.

[Redleg 40,925]

Oh I see what you mean.

That 'no fault' clause doesn't mean you don't get found guilty of the offence though. It's called 'No Significant Fault or Negligence', which is about mitigating the penalty. So you're still found guilty of an offence, but your penalty is reduced because you have no significant fault in the matter.

Yes, but you are also acknowledged not to be a drug cheat, because you were duped over what you took. That is very significant for people's futures.

[beelzebub 23,376]

As ridiculous as it might seem it would be the difference between being let into the States or not !!

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Yes, but you are also acknowledged not to be a drug cheat, because you were duped over what you took. That is very significant for people's futures.

Source?

I don't think this is true - you're still guilty, you're still a 'drug cheat', you're just not as to blame as others might be. Not that it matters - take the six months and run, I say.

[Macca 16,970]

Although macca it seems they may be deemed "not guilty" on the AOD aspect. Seems asada must feel there was a bit of confusion/doubt over certain communications of its illegality

Yep ... but it looks like they've got them on the other drug (the "bad" thymosin) Their players possibly or probably thought they were given the "other" thymosin but in the end, much will depend on how ASADA views that. History tells us that they're in a bit of strife.

However, any player who feels that they've been misled should take the deal on offer (if that offer is forthcoming) Why be a martyr? I feel a fair bit of sympathy for the younger players on the list at the time (of which there were many) In that sort of environment, a young draftee or rookie can easily be caught up in the whole thing (especially if they had no idea that they were being lied to)

The older, more mature players should have asked a lot of questions and I'm not sure that they have the same defence as the rookies or the recent draftees. Generally though, all those implicated will be treated in the same way.

The coaches, staff and administrators who embarked on this whole scheme have a lot to answer for and if they cop the full wrath, so be it. The fish rots at the head and it's fairly evident that this whole saga falls into that same scenario.

[Lucifers Hero 39,811]

You would think that those players no longer at Essendon will break ranks as soon as the Federal Court hears the Essendon/Hird claim on June 27.

They don't owe Essendon any loyalty and there is no risk of being delisted/not played/ostracised by mates etc. I can't see the likes of Monfries being out for 1 minute longer than necessary if there is a premiership on the horizon.

Wouldn't be surpised if these players get their own legal counsel and go their own way. AFLPA won't be happy but those players need to look after themselves. They might take the 6 months then sue Essendon anyway. No downside at all.

[Lucifers Hero 39,811]

Does anyone else think the very rare (only a couple of other cases in world sport) torn tendon in his (Watson's) hip could somehow be a result of the cocktail of drugs Essendon pumped into him. Can't be proven but you have to wonder.

[biggestred 5,088]

Mark Thompson is one of the people to blame, says Tony Shaw

Tony Shaw talks sense!

[Chook 15,013]

Does anyone else think the very rare (only a couple of other cases in world sport) torn tendon in his (Watson's) hip could somehow be a result of the cocktail of drugs Essendon pumped into him. Can't be proven but you have to wonder.

Any uncommon injury to a sportsman that takes drugs not approved for human use needs to be looked at with great suspicion.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Mark Thompson is one of the people to blame, says Tony Shaw

Tony Shaw talks sense!

Just read article myself.. He is right. As mentioned on another thread yesterday. Bomber is quite frankly despicable and beyond hypocritical.

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

I feel like the whole dynamic of the situation doesn't make sense, we are at a point where we can fairly safely say the bombers are more likely than not guilty of using performance enhancing drugs,

Why are they allowed to continue to play the players in question? It's all well and good to punish them but what if a side missed the finals because of one game, that they lost against the bombers who were later found guilty of drug cheating, shouldn't that make all results they have questionable?

It does not seem fair to me that they are allowed to compete for premiership points when the greater likelyhood says they have not done so within the rules,

Banned pending investigation results effective immediately is the only way to be certain Any cheating doesn't further compromise the integrity of the competition for the 17 other sides who choose to play within the rules.

[deanox 9,921]

They have had allegations outlined in Show Cause notices and have been invited to provide (within 10 days) information explaining either why they are not guilty or why they should have sentences reduced for no significant fault or providing assistance etc.

After their response is reviewed they may be placed on a register of findings when I believe they can no longer play.

[monoccular 17,428]

The other related issue is the distinction between the "good" thymosin and the "bad" thymosin. Essendon has gone to great lengths to claim that they only received the "good" thymosin (although they have no record of what they got). The "good" variety is used to treat Hepatitis B and C and to boost the immune response in the treatment of other diseases. The "bad" thymosin (TB4) improves muscle tone, helps repair tissue and fight inflammation. Athletes have reported that injecting this peptide benefits building muscle and recovery from injuries.

Dank's text to the Weapon (Robinson) in August 2011 -

"Don't forget how important thymosin is.

"This will be our vital cornerstone next year.

"It is the ultimate assembly regulatory protein and biological modifier.

"Thymosin is so effective in soft-tissue maintenance."

What explanation do you reckon would be to your reasonable satisfaction?

The cornerstone of the sports scientist's plan was a drug to treat hepatitis or one to help build muscle and aid soft tissue repair?

"But we didn't take performance enhancing drugs"! :-)

I think the real tragedy for the players will be seen in 10,20, 30 years time!!!

Sadly that may well be true

6 months is a good penalty if it runs from March through end of August !!

A 6 month out of season ban would be an absolute mockery.

The players face an interesting dilemma. If they admit they were injected but claim not to know what was used, they get the six-month suspension and that admission plus the paper-trail is enough to convict the club. If they hold off and the club's desperate legal gamble fails, they'll get a longer suspension which for some will be the end of their footy careers. I agree that a lot of players are dim bulbs at best, but quite a lot of them are pretty bright, had a rough idea of what the club seas doing and will want to find the best way out.

Interesting would be were the players to receive a 6 or 12 month ban, but the club were to be delicenced for longer, for whom would / could they play on return?

[biggestred 5,088]

Hopefully, common sense will soon prevail, and each major professional sport in Australia will follow their US colleagues in staying away from the WADA code

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/why-australian-sports-must-cut-ties-with-wada-20140615-zs8k1.html#ixzz34i7D9iAJ

Brendan Schwab must be [censored] joking. In the states they are getting 3 week bans for using steroids. uhh no

[bing181 9,238]

The point that I was making was that any case that tries to allege a person took a drug without evidence that at any point in time they actually had it in their system is a lot harder, and a lot different, to a case where there is a positive test but the player tries to argue they had no idea they took it (like the one you mentioned).

You don't have to have taken anything to be guilty of a doping infringement - ask Wade Lees. It's enough that there was intent, even accidental intent or unintentional intent.

As has been touched on elsewhere, a large percentage of doping infringement cases go through without their being a positive test.

[biggestred 5,088]

what's "unintentional intent"?

[wretched.sylph 164]

what's "unintentional intent"?

it's something that can happen when you've taken a lot of really good drugs.

[DemonFrog 1,354]

IMO MessyDrug should be kicked out of the league if they did indeed had a illegal substance program to enhance player performance.

I see their defense will be based on then discrediting the ASADA investigation process and not trying to say they are innocent of such a program.

Personal I don't care if it is the ASADA or the AFL that bring this deluded club down but down they must go if such a drug/illegal substances did exist.

Fantastic game on the week end and a great result.

I feel it was a game of good verse evil and evil got its backside kicked.

[old dee 23,791]

it's something that can happen when you've taken a lot of really good drugs.

Very sharp ws

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Tony Shaw talks sense!

That in itself is newsworthy.

[Slartibartfast 17,279]

The explanation for Essendon's stance was in Little's address pre match. He doesn't believe (publicly at least) that the players have taken banned drugs.

You'd have to think that ASADA have a pretty good case but the reality is that as far as I know nobody knows what that case is. It's very difficult for the club or the players to decide a course of action when the facts aren't known. And before you dismiss this immediately keep in mind Essendon don't know what drugs were administered. It's quite possible Danks told them one thing and did another. It's possible Danks used Essendon as a conduit to pay for and obtain banned drugs which he then used for others.

The reality is we don't know. This is not to excuse in any way the management of the supplements program which was just dreadful - Hird, Corcoran, Reid and the Essendon board culpable. But if Little genuinely believes the players were not given banned drugs he's in a terrible position.

[jnrmac 20,065]

The explanation for Essendon's stance was in Little's address pre match. He doesn't believe (publicly at least) that the players have taken banned drugs.

You'd have to think that ASADA have a pretty good case but the reality is that as far as I know nobody knows what that case is. It's very difficult for the club or the players to decide a course of action when the facts aren't known. And before you dismiss this immediately keep in mind Essendon don't know what drugs were administered. It's quite possible Danks told them one thing and did another. It's possible Danks used Essendon as a conduit to pay for and obtain banned drugs which he then used for others.

The reality is we don't know. This is not to excuse in any way the management of the supplements program which was just dreadful - Hird, Corcoran, Reid and the Essendon board culpable. But if Little genuinely believes the players were not given banned drugs he's in a terrible position.

If they didn't know what drugs were administered then they are guilty.

They are also guilty of stupidity, of poor process and of failing to care for their players. The fact they circumvented their doctor says it all really.

Oh no, But its Demetriou's fault. FMD. Its a conspiracy.

Why dont they sue Dank to get his records??? Haven't mentioned it have they. Why do you think. they don't want them

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Spot on Jnrmac

I actually do feel sorry for the players - it is likely they've been duped in to taking substances.

But the whole Hird and Essendon argument is that they didn't know - and I agree totally with what you've said. They're delaying to find a scape goat that won't be found.

I hope this goes to court then the whole truth will be exposed and Essenscum will more then likely (depending on the evidence) still find themselves at fault

[daisycutter 29,616]

Spot on Jnrmac

I actually do feel sorry for the players - it is likely they've been duped in to taking substances.

But the whole Hird and Essendon argument is that they didn't know - and I agree totally with what you've said. They're delaying to find a scape goat that won't be found.

I hope this goes to court then the whole truth will be exposed and Essenscum will more then likely (depending on the evidence) still find themselves at fault

one would "hope" that going to court would expose the "whole truth" but i very much doubt it