Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[Lucifers Hero 39,820]

EFC must be the most pro-active club on the planet, inoculating their players against cancer! . . . James then is the new cancer Jesus (taken over from (Lance!) . . Where can I donate?

ps to Whispering; is there a way to retract once the post button has been hit? Think I made a blunder last nite! Thks

Go back to that post, place the cursor on any part of the text you put in and you will see 'edit' and 'delete' buttons appear in the bottom right corner of your post. Choose whichever you prefer.

[deefrag 277]

Go back to that post, place the cursor on any part of the text you put in and you will see 'edit' and 'delete' buttons appear in the bottom right corner of your post. Choose whichever you prefer.

Thank you! Naked lady now gone!

[daisycutter 29,616]

I hope that the evidence against Essendon is made public because it will likely expose the spin and probably outright lies from the Club that are contained in the Slobbo HUN interview.

Eventually this will all come out, too many people know the truth for it to remain buried. When it does the whole house of cards will collapse.

To suggest that because of the Blackest Day in Australian Sport presser that the players are political pawns is at worst lies and at best denial. The Federal Court case showed Essendons hand, They want the bury the evidence and the only reason for that is that they know full well they did it and want to get off on a technicality. Little states he is working in the best interest of the players but their interest is best served in Essendon fully cooperating to ensure any health issues are identified and dealt with. Any sanctions and records the players end up with are secondary. Anyway the only way the players can clear their names is have all the evidence considered and get found not guilty. Where is the Essendon legal action to supeona Dank and his records, or Robinson and his records. If he gave the players Thymomodulin he had to buy it from somewhere and pay for it some how and someone must have witnessed the injections or done the injections. These injections would be to the recommended doseage for Thymomodulin. Where is this evidence?

This all adds up in my mind to Hird, Little and the Club being a pack of filthy liars and how anyone including the suporters and players can support their position is unbelievable

i wonder where are the "nurses" in the outside establishment who administered the injections

where are their interviews?

did they know what they injected? if not why not?

were all the injection vials labelled?

were they registered health workers?

these weren't essendon people, they should be traceable

[sue 9,107]

No records now exist so either:

1. EFC was totally amateurish in never keeping any or if they did make them, they lost them, OR

2. they destroyed them.

Option 1 is hard to credit in this age of professional sport.

Option 2 means either they accidentally destroyed them (see option 1), or they had something to hide.

Case closed. EFC are just trying to spin this out so long that most of the players involved will be on the age pension by the time they are penalised.

Edited November 27, 2014 by sue

[biggestred 5,094]

Of course they destroyed them

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

No records now exist so either:

1. EFC was totally amateurish in never keeping any or if they did make them, they lost them, OR

2. they destroyed them.

Option 1 is hard to credit in this age of professional sport.

Option 2 means either they accidentally destroyed them (see option 1), or they had something to hide.

Case closed. EFC are just trying to spin this out so long that most of the players involved will be on the age pension by the time they are penalised.

Everything the players do, be it training, eating, playing, or resting is monitored and documented. It is unquestionable that they were destroyed!

[jnrmac 20,090]

No records now exist so either:

1. EFC was totally amateurish in never keeping any or if they did make them, they lost them, OR

2. they destroyed them.

Option 1 is hard to credit in this age of professional sport.

Option 2 means either they accidentally destroyed them (see option 1), or they had something to hide.

Case closed. EFC are just trying to spin this out so long that most of the players involved will be on the age pension by the time they are penalised.

No sure where it came from that there are no records. You simply wouldn't run a programme worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and not keep meticulous records about everything. I mean Melbourne supposedly players have to call in every morning to advise on how they have pulled up after training , if they have any niggles, blah blah blah.

And if they can't produce records they are guilty of gross incompetence, mismanagement and endangerment of young people's lives. Automatic 2 year bans.

[old dee 23,792]

Came in half way through this morning but KB on SEN was discussing the article in the HUN this morning and he kept saying everything that has come out of the EFC over the last two years is "weird".

He must have said it ten times in the five minutes I was listening.

Spot on I think

[biggestred 5,094]

None of it is weird.

Its the same as a naughty kid being caught red handed and using every lie and excuse and trick in their book to get out of it.

[Dees2014 2,377]

IMO yesterdays fan club meeting at the HUN is due to the coming board election at the EFC.

Perhaps Mr. Little can smell a changing of the guard and is trying to get the members via the HUN.

And Robinson is just the sort of compromised journo to deliver the good for them. Still it won't make any difference, they are stuffed either way.

[Its Time for Another 4,223]

When you consider the list of items on the consent or waiver form signed by the players, there was sufficient information to alert them to matters of concern. Their education as AFL players taught them in those circumstances to refer the substances to others like parents, managers, doctors and other professionals. A simple Google search on thymosin would have told them that something might be amiss.

I've always had a great deal of sympathy for the players but I'm starting to change my view, particularly in view of the Doc Reid letters and emails where he voiced his concern about the program.

I'm thinking of Jobe Watson in particular. He's the Captain of the team and therefore the player's no. 1 advocate. His father is an experienced player and has been very vocal in the media about all of this in support of the players. Surely, surely, surely Jobe mentioned this injection regime to his father. How is it possible this didn't send off alarm bells. How is it that he wouldn't have got his son to make investigations. Who would he make them to? To the Club Doctor who Tim knows well because he was there when he was. For all I know he might even be their family Doctor. If Jobe had bothered to make the enquiry to the Doc what would the response have been. According to the emails and letters that have been circulated it would have been that he has major concerns about the regime. Surely he knew that no records were being kept. How was he doing his job if he didn't check the records of what they were being injected with. If he knew there were no records he should have shut it down instantly. As a Dr he should have known you couldn't run a medical practice of any type with mass injections and not keep records. If my Doctor told me all of that I would have stopped immediately.

So if Watson did what he absolutely should have done and spoke to the Doctor and got that response, he should have stopped right there. Forget the mad Sports Scientist or the maniacal Coach. What was his father saying at this point? If on behalf of the players, he didn't ask the good Doc, then they should all get what's coming to them. If he did ask the good Doc and he said it's all ok then the good Doc should be in a hell of a lot of trouble.

I'm guessing the questions weren't asked of the Doctor. In which case the players should be in trouble, big trouble.

[sue 9,107]

I've always had a great deal of sympathy for the players but I'm starting to change my view, particularly in view of the Doc Reid letters and emails where he voiced his concern about the program.

I'm thinking of Jobe Watson in particular. He's the Captain of the team and therefore the player's no. 1 advocate. His father is an experienced player and has been very vocal in the media about all of this in support of the players. Surely, surely, surely Jobe mentioned this injection regime to his father. How is it possible this didn't send off alarm bells. How is it that he wouldn't have got his son to make investigations. Who would he make them to? To the Club Doctor who Tim knows well because he was there when he was. For all I know he might even be their family Doctor. If Jobe had bothered to make the enquiry to the Doc what would the response have been. According to the emails and letters that have been circulated it would have been that he has major concerns about the regime. Surely he knew that no records were being kept. How was he doing his job if he didn't check the records of what they were being injected with. If he knew there were no records he should have shut it down instantly. As a Dr he should have known you couldn't run a medical practice of any type with mass injections and not keep records. If my Doctor told me all of that I would have stopped immediately.

So if Watson did what he absolutely should have done and spoke to the Doctor and got that response, he should have stopped right there. Forget the mad Sports Scientist or the maniacal Coach. What was his father saying at this point? If on behalf of the players, he didn't ask the good Doc, then they should all get what's coming to them. If he did ask the good Doc and he said it's all ok then the good Doc should be in a hell of a lot of trouble.

I'm guessing the questions weren't asked of the Doctor. In which case the players should be in trouble, big trouble.

Seems to me that the likeliest explanation is that the Doc raised some concerns but when questioned, he gave vague responses, possibly influenced by being immersed in the EFC culture, and so those who wanted to win by means of 'whatever it takes' concluded that going ahead was worth the risk. And have been bum covering ever since.

[DemonFrog 1,354]

The new Director of High Performance at MessyDrugs

[PaulRB 6,363]

Best thing thats already come from the Essendon drugs fiasco, is that while they were distracted...

... we've sailed right past them.

They just don't realise it yet.

[3Dee 1,153]

Best thing thats already come from the Essendon drugs fiasco, is that while they were distracted...

... we've sailed right past them.

They just don't realise it yet.

http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2014/13/ess-v-melb

[Lucifers Hero 39,820]

Good to see some people are showing Hird that he is a persona non gratia in the industry. Firstly, the Vic Opposition Leader and now most of the AFL Coaches & Presidents. From a CW article in today's Age:

'A significant number of senior AFL coaches have continued to avoid meaningful talks with Essendon coach James Hird'...'McLachlan greeted Hird and the two men shook hands, although McLachlan has not yet held a meeting with Hird since his return from a one-year AFL ban'...'The Essendon coach,...left the AFL function early. Buckley was one of just three senior coaches of 17 who attended a meeting with Hird in September'...'Brayshaw would not comment on the coaches' lack of interest in entreaties to hear Hird's version of events that the Bombers' coach outlined to Buckley and the others at the September Brayshaw meeting'...'The lack of appetite held by a number of senior coaches regarding a meeting with Hird has been reflected by the vast majority of club presidents, who remain alarmed at the ongoing damage to the game's image as the fallout from the Essendon 2012 drugs program continues'.

Obviously, the Ess BS machine isn't working where it counts! Loss of respect from one's peers must be the hardest pill to take in sport. James is getting some medicine!

[old dee 23,792]

Good to see some people are showing Hird that he is a persona non gratia in the industry. Firstly, the Vic Opposition Leader and now most of the AFL Coaches & Presidents. From a CW article in today's Age:

'A significant number of senior AFL coaches have continued to avoid meaningful talks with Essendon coach James Hird'...'McLachlan greeted Hird and the two men shook hands, although McLachlan has not yet held a meeting with Hird since his return from a one-year AFL ban'...'The Essendon coach,...left the AFL function early. Buckley was one of just three senior coaches of 17 who attended a meeting with Hird in September'...'Brayshaw would not comment on the coaches' lack of interest in entreaties to hear Hird's version of events that the Bombers' coach outlined to Buckley and the others at the September Brayshaw meeting'...'The lack of appetite held by a number of senior coaches regarding a meeting with Hird has been reflected by the vast majority of club presidents, who remain alarmed at the ongoing damage to the game's image as the fallout from the Essendon 2012 drugs program continues'.

Obviously, the Ess BS machine isn't working where it counts! Loss of respect from one's peers must be the hardest pill to take in sport. James is getting some medicine!

LH I think you under estimate the thickness of his skin.

Hird and his cheer squad still think they are correct and I really believe they will go the grave with that belief.

[Crompton's the man 659]

LH I think you under estimate the thickness of his skin.

Hird and his cheer squad still think they are correct and I really believe they will go the grave with that belief.

Not entirely unlike the attitude of the american policeman that shot the unarmed teenager dead : through his lawyer - no apology will be forthcoming ( because he did nothing wrong)

One admires people who are totally convinced of their rightness .....

[FireOath 290]

I'm going to be extremely selfish here. I was following this thread until cyberoam took over at work and was easily the most unbiased and factual thread about this I have seen. I have been out of the loop for about 3 months, other than the media side of things. Can someone give me a quick rundown on the latest?

[Whispering_Jack 30,173]

I'm going to be extremely selfish here. I was following this thread until cyberoam took over at work and was easily the most unbiased and factual thread about this I have seen. I have been out of the loop for about 3 months, other than the media side of things. Can someone give me a quick rundown on the latest?

Infraction notices issued against 34 players who were on the Essendon list in 2012. Matter goes before an AFL Tribunal on 15 December. The focus is currently on the evidence that can be admitted to the hearing and which witnesses will be available ~ Essendon supplements saga hearing to discuss evidence dispute.

Oh ... and James Hird remains coach of Essendon and a number of their players are suffering withdrawal symptoms as a result of being derived of the baby formula (aka "the good thymosin") they once used to be injected with on a regular basis.

[TRIGON 4,783]

I'm going to be extremely selfish here. I was following this thread until cyberoam took over at work and was easily the most unbiased and factual thread about this I have seen. I have been out of the loop for about 3 months, other than the media side of things. Can someone give me a quick rundown on the latest?

Barra17, here's some additional information that may help you better comprehend the behaviours exhibited by certain individuals involved in this case...How to Determine if Someone is a Sociopath

Edited November 30, 2014 by I Give a Gawnski

[Whispering_Jack 30,173]

Just as an aside, did anyone see Gerrard Whateley's hair on the Offsiders this morning?

What has he done?

[Wolfmother 182]

No records now exist so either:

1. EFC was totally amateurish in never keeping any or if they did make them, they lost them, OR

2. they destroyed them.

Option 1 is hard to credit in this age of professional sport.

Option 2 means either they accidentally destroyed them (see option 1), or they had something to hide.

Case closed. EFC are just trying to spin this out so long that most of the players involved will be on the age pension by the time they are penalised.

This is one of the biggest misconception regarding this issue, the bombers kept records the records where in their computers and the records were handed (or obtained) by ASADA.

The reason that this line came (catchphrase for media) about ie "not knowing what they given" was in relation to one drug bought back from Mexico and injected into the players around their Anzac Day game

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-injected-with-mystery-mexican-substance-20130814-2rx6m.html

The bombers conceded that they couldn't be sure what it was because mexicos drug industry obviously doesn't have the same testing regimes. Which is how this misconception started

The bombers have never attemtpted to clarified the 'we don't know line' because if they do then obviously it may lead to further question like okay so what did you give them and looking how the media has gone into bat for essendon with the pro pr campaign they haven't bother fixing the misconception

Look at the dossier released with the charges for the bombers and it listed all the drugs the players were given which was obtained from the bombers records

[daisycutter 29,616]

there is no info on the detailed records of who/what/when/dosage etc mentioned

asada's list could come from a number of sources including "suggested" supplements and dosages on the consent form the players signed and from invoiced details and on other non-essendon sources

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hird-was-warned-the-inside-story-on-essendons-drug-scandal-20130821-2savu.html

where is your proof of essendon's detailed records that one would expect of such a large scale operation?

[KLV 1,765]

Just as an aside, did anyone see Gerrard Whateley's hair on the Offsiders this morning?

What has he done?

First thing I noticed