Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[Lucifers Hero 38,982]

The players want a closed hearing! Well of course they do! To stop the dirty laundry being aired. This annoys be as no-one stopped to think twice about airing Jack Trengrove's name and trashing his reputation.

Player Agent Jess: "Every player and every player manager has to take a considered view if there is any loss or damage, then they have to quantify it.

"In this case, there would be high-profile players who would have suffered significant loss and damage."

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-players-want-closed-antidoping-tribunal-hearing-20141115-11nexm.html

Oh dear: Players get off - ASADA/WADA probably appeal. Players don't get off - players sue for damages. Far from over, folks...groan.

[Its Time for Another 4,084]

I read somewhere this week that the clock will start ticking from the date of the Infraction Notices. Ie Friday. They are supposedly banned from then. I would have thought that means they can't train withe the Club but haven't heard anything about that.

I'm a bit confused about the likely penalty. Saad got 18mths although he didn't know the energy drink he had was only banned on match days the rest of the time it was ok. ASADA appealed and wanted 2yrs. No 12mth discount for ignorance, only 6mth for co operation. The Essendon players supposedly didn't know what they were taking so could get the 12mth discount but on the basis of what happened to Saad I'm not sure why they would get it. Maybe because the Club told the it was legal and they should be entitled to rely on the Club including Doc Reid. (How he is not charged here as well is a mystery to me.

On that basis, if found guilty I can't see how they could get less than 12mths and if their reliance on the Club doesn't help them, on basis of Saad case, as they haven't co operated, it looks like 2yrs.

[beelzebub 23,198]

Player Agent Jess: "Every player and every player manager has to take a considered view if there is any loss or damage, then they have to quantify it.

"In this case, there would be high-profile players who would have suffered significant loss and damage."

Playing a little Devil's advocacy here. I would think that given the stance of WADA is that the PLAYER/ATHLETE/COMPETITOR is the one who is ultimately responsible then how hard done by can they scream ? How much is really the players OWN fault ? Caveat Emptor rings in my ear even though I know its not a perfect fit....but.....

It wasnt really that they were given something without ANY knowledge...no Micky Finns here. More like , we're setting out on a course of supplements....sign here. That none seemingly could be that bothered to check what it was how much responsibility should actually fall upon the player themselves and as such provide ( bizarrely ) mitigation for action against the club ?

This is not my particular view, but it COULD read that way...i.e The club might say...well...you signed up !! Of course theres the 'bait and switch ' argument about all of this...and rightly so but it was still beholding upon the players to check. Thats the whole argument of WADA, surely.

Its going to get down to real dirty and nasty infightings before long.

had better stock up on beer and nibbles

Edited November 15, 2014 by beelzebub

[What 18,810]

2 year bans all around

They were not duped and I am sick of the sympathy for the players

Edited December 6, 2014 by hogans_heroes

[Whispering_Jack 29,190]

Some how I get the feeling the AFL does not take the issue of illegal substances use in the Essendon FC very seriously.

Neither is our sports media which is relatively silent on the matter of Fletcher and Watson (if served with notices) playing the Irish in the forthcoming IR games.

Unlike their treatment of suspected doper Michelle Smith, the Irish swimmer who won 3 gold and 1 bronze at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics.

Obviously the media and the AFL Integrity people have shut up shop.

[John Crow Batty 8,770]

There will be a pragmatic ending and Essendon will get a softer landing than they deserve. Hird will be gone and business will be back as usual in 2016. It is far easier to make an example for Individuals like Saad than to a powerful cornerstone club which will do more damage than good for the game. The AFL. has other worrying threats on the horizon like changing demographics and rising A League.

[picket fence 16,657]

If just one player, just one is much less all are found guilty Hird MUST go!

The fish rots first from the head. This happened on his watch. PAY THE PRICE!

GONE!!!

I can only hope , for the sake of the few Non Delusional Essendon Supporters that the "New Ticket" Gauci and co can and do get in.

Edited November 15, 2014 by picket fence

[beelzebub 23,198]

Neither is our sports media which is relatively silent on the matter of Fletcher and Watson (if served with notices) playing the Irish in the forthcoming IR games.

Unlike their treatment of suspected doper Michelle Smith, the Irish swimmer who won 3 gold and 1 bronze at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics.

Obviously the media and the AFL Integrity people have shut up shop.

The AFL integrity shop never opened !!

[Willmoy1947 3,966]

I'm thinking there is real potential here for more than one person to spill the beans here.

Hird and Dank if things get too heavy are in excellent positions to be quite vengeful in the final washup

[monoccular 17,319]

The AFL integrity shop never opened !!

Much talked about: very little evidence of its commencement let along ongoing existence.

The strong remain strong, the weak remain weak, the dollars roll in and all at HQ are happy.

NO integrity in the schedule, the tribunal, the recreational drugs policy, and as we are about to see the performance enhancing drugs policy

[M_9 1,983]

If the 34 players are found to have been administered a banned drug (TB4) then I can't see how they can get less than 12 months. Even then, they would have to plead 'no significant fault or negligence".

The players were negligent in signing a waiver that listed Thymosin on it. A Google search would have told them that there was "good" and "bad" Thymosin.

Hird and Dank didn't help the situation by sidelining Reid who would have been the one to check with ASADA.

Having said that, Reid had reservations about Dank's use of AOD9604, and was not forceful enough in his objection to the use of that.

During the player interviews, it was apparent that some players were told more by Dank re Thymosin than others. It didn't help the 34 players that something like 12 did not have the injections. BTW the story about Zaharkas having an aversion to needles was rubbish.

Looking at the NRL penalties, I think the players will get 12 months backdated to the issuance of the initial SCNs (mid-June). They would then miss half the 2015 season. If the players are found guilty the AFL tribunal may try to get away with the minimum.

I reckon ASADA will appeal if the bans are less than 2 years. They'll go in hard as they did in both Matt Clark's and Saad's case.

[beelzebub 23,198]

I'm thinking there is real potential here for more than one person to spill the beans here.

Hird and Dank if things get too heavy are in excellent positions to be quite vengeful in the final washup

This may sound incredulous but I suspect once the tribunal starts and the penalties start it might just turn very "real' for these players. i say that for they are in some kind of stupified trance currently under the spells of the EFC and AFLPA.

When they find themselves bounce off the pavement after being chucked out for however long it will dawn on them its really about them. always was. Some will think , belatedly, why didn't I check this stuff out. Why did I trust everyone blindly, why was I fed crap , and more crap .,.....and why did I swallow ??

After a few pick themselves up and smell the reality ...all bets will be off.

Strangley it'll be a case of United they fall , Divided they'll stand !!

[beelzebub 23,198]

If the 34 players are found to have been administered a banned drug (TB4) then I can't see how they can get less than 12 months. Even then, they would have to plead 'no significant fault or negligence".

The players were negligent in signing a waiver that listed Thymosin on it. A Google search would have told them that there was "good" and "bad" Thymosin.

Hird and Dank didn't help the situation by sidelining Reid who would have been the one to check with ASADA.

Having said that, Reid had reservations about Dank's use of AOD9604, and was not forceful enough in his objection to the use of that.

During the player interviews, it was apparent that some players were told more by Dank re Thymosin than others. It didn't help the 34 players that something like 12 did not have the injections. BTW the story about Zaharkas having an aversion to needles was rubbish.

Looking at the NRL penalties, I think the players will get 12 months backdated to the issuance of the initial SCNs (mid-June). They would then miss half the 2015 season. If the players are found guilty the AFL tribunal may try to get away with the minimum.

I reckon ASADA will appeal if the bans are less than 2 years. They'll go in hard as they did in both Matt Clark's and Saad's case.

I feel the AFL will look to a politically palatable and pragmatically , a minimal, outcome. This has always been the hope of the EFC. It holds some sway here and has 'mates"

Fortunately the AFL DOESN'T have the final say in this matter.

[Willmoy1947 3,966]

Yes, the real impact for the players and their close ones is that from that day on they will forever more be regarded as being a cheat in life...

If workcover does not step in and monitor them from then on things could get very serious quite quickly

[jnrmac 19,890]

Fortunately the AFL DOESN'T have the final say in this matter.

I so hope you are right...

[daisycutter 29,331]

If the 34 players are found to have been administered a banned drug (TB4) then I can't see how they can get less than 12 months. Even then, they would have to plead 'no significant fault or negligence".

The players were negligent in signing a waiver that listed Thymosin on it. A Google search would have told them that there was "good" and "bad" Thymosin.

Hird and Dank didn't help the situation by sidelining Reid who would have been the one to check with ASADA.

Having said that, Reid had reservations about Dank's use of AOD9604, and was not forceful enough in his objection to the use of that.

During the player interviews, it was apparent that some players were told more by Dank re Thymosin than others. It didn't help the 34 players that something like 12 did not have the injections. BTW the story about Zaharkas having an aversion to needles was rubbish.

Looking at the NRL penalties, I think the players will get 12 months backdated to the issuance of the initial SCNs (mid-June). They would then miss half the 2015 season. If the players are found guilty the AFL tribunal may try to get away with the minimum.

I reckon ASADA will appeal if the bans are less than 2 years. They'll go in hard as they did in both Matt Clark's and Saad's case.

it is often stated that thymodulin is a "good" version of thymosin (as opposed to thymosin beta4)

a quick google search (by no means thorough) didn't show that thymodulin was a thymosin

so, is thymodulin a "good' flavour of thymosin or is this just another red herring because the names sound alike?

[Qwerty30 196]

Looking at the NRL penalties, I think the players will get 12 months backdated to the issuance of the initial SCNs (mid-June). They would then miss half the 2015 season. If the players are found guilty the AFL tribunal may try to get away with the minimum.

I reckon ASADA will appeal if the bans are less than 2 years. They'll go in hard as they did in both Matt Clark's and Saad's case.

Given the form that ASADA have shown in respect of the NRL, I would suspect that they would accept the 12 months backdated.

I don't think Saad is a reliable precedent because didn't Saad get suspended for importation of a banned substance. Whether he took it is neither here nor there. Under the law if you import you are assumed to have consumed.

[Qwerty30 196]

This may sound incredulous but I suspect once the tribunal starts and the penalties start it might just turn very "real' for these players. i say that for they are in some kind of stupified trance currently under the spells of the EFC and AFLPA.

When they find themselves bounce off the pavement after being chucked out for however long it will dawn on them its really about them. always was. Some will think , belatedly, why didn't I check this stuff out. Why did I trust everyone blindly, why was I fed crap , and more crap .,.....and why did I swallow ??

After a few pick themselves up and smell the reality ...all bets will be off.

Strangley it'll be a case of United they fall , Divided they'll stand !!

From hearing from a parent of an EFC player some months ago, it's been very real for them for the past two years. Ryder is one of the more emotive episodes in this.

It will be interesting how they will approach this as they have been let down by the Club during this whole saga notwithstanding the onus is on them. And during the past 2 years they have been poorly advised by the Club.

I feel the AFL will look to a politically palatable and pragmatically , a minimal, outcome. This has always been the hope of the EFC. It holds some sway here and has 'mates"

Fortunately the AFL DOESN'T have the final say in this matter.

If the AFL are going to look for a politically pragmatic and palatable solution then it's not going to be a cheap minimal outcome.

And Blind Freddie would know that the AFL tribunal decision will be challengeable by ASADA.

I not sure either that EFC hold any sway here at all. Given the abominable and ridiculous strategy undertaken by Little, I don't think they have any "mates" at the AFL. I would have thought one of the key objectives once this saga has eventually been settled is that the shredded relationship of EFC with the AFL and other Clubs needs to be repaired and this won't happen with Little being involved.

This is now a matter of each player vs AFL tribunal not the Club.

[old dee 23,491]

The AFL integrity shop never opened !!

Second blinder in three days bb

[beelzebub 23,198]

From hearing from a parent of an EFC player some months ago, it's been very real for them for the past two years. Ryder is one of the more emotive episodes in this.

It will be interesting how they will approach this as they have been let down by the Club during this whole saga notwithstanding the onus is on them. And during the past 2 years they have been poorly advised by the Club.

If the AFL are going to look for a politically pragmatic and palatable solution then it's not going to be a cheap minimal outcome.

And Blind Freddie would know that the AFL tribunal decision will be challengeable by ASADA.

I not sure either that EFC hold any sway here at all. Given the abominable and ridiculous strategy undertaken by Little, I don't think they have any "mates" at the AFL. I would have thought one of the key objectives once this saga has eventually been settled is that the shredded relationship of EFC with the AFL and other Clubs needs to be repaired and this won't happen with Little being involved.

This is now a matter of each player vs AFL tribunal not the Club.

I didnt say politically pragmatic...i said politically palatable ....and pragmatically...minimal.

I said this advisedly . This is to say they will try to strike a balance between what they should do and what they want to do. What they should do is let ASADA deliberate and decide the penalty...AFL issue it. What the AFL will want is to send the EFC to the naughty corner til march and 'fine " players something negligable and a slight slap on the wrist.

The AFL has been playing funny buggers and 'mates' ever since they got whiff. The AFL are about damage control.. WADA/ASADA is about right and wrong. Vastly different things.

Well q30 if the players think its real now....they have a whole NEW reality coming their way

[whatwhat say what 22,133]

What I expect to happen: afl-negotiated outcome whereby all players are eligible for selection for Anzac Day, Hird banned for a further year, Doc Reid banned for 12 months, all other coaches given suspended sentences, Dank banned being involved in afl.

What I think should happen: two year bans for all players, Hird banned for life, Doc Reid banned for life, all other coaches suspended for 12 months (yep, including Goodwin), Dank gaoled for a period of time.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,065]

The key question of interest for me is what is the status of "Jab" Watson's Brownlow? Can he retain it if this banned substances ruling is substantiated? Would the second placegetter become the medalist? The AFL would not want to go into this territory.

[Qwerty30 196]

I didnt say politically pragmatic...i said politically palatable ....and pragmatically...minimal.

I said this advisedly . This is to say they will try to strike a balance between what they should do and what they want to do. What they should do is let ASADA deliberate and decide the penalty...AFL issue it. What the AFL will want is to send the EFC to the naughty corner til march and 'fine " players something negligable and a slight slap on the wrist.

The AFL has been playing funny buggers and 'mates' ever since they got whiff. The AFL are about damage control.. WADA/ASADA is about right and wrong. Vastly different things.

Well q30 if the players think its real now....they have a whole NEW reality coming their way

If the AFL are about damage control they will be doing what they should do. It's the quickest path to getting this resolved and moving on.

And ever since Evans departed EFC, we have Little that has fought city hall aggressively and disdainfully, we have had their 2014 coach refuse to pay a $30,000 fine and we have the James Hird saga/scandal. "Funny buggers" and "mates" you say..... Look I love a good conspiracy theory but it's always better with a bare modicum of facts.

And I think Demonland is the last place to warn others about reality!

[Bitter but optimistic 22,065]

If the AFL are about damage control they will be doing what they should do. It's the quickest path to getting this resolved and moving on.

And ever since Evans departed EFC, we have Little that has fought city hall aggressively and disdainfully, we have had their 2014 coach refuse to pay a $30,000 fine and we have the James Hird saga/scandal. "Funny buggers" and "mates" you say..... Look I love a good conspiracy theory but it's always better with a bare modicum of facts.

And I think Demonland is the last place to warn others about reality!

Demonland is some sort of alternative universe. Anyone who has posted more than once must realize this. What a bunch of lunatics!

[Deecisive 1,709]

what a farce to back date a suspension when the players have already played those games, to make such a deal is an absolute blight on the AFL and sport in general. But then again whats another blight to the money greedy AFL who only look after the rich clubs.