Sandringham v Casey Scorpions

[Toad33 57]

Casey goal kickers: Taggert 4, Gawn 4, Nicholls 3 and Blease 2. Singles to Jetta, Spencer, Hogan, Tynan and Magner.

Except for Nicholls, all coached full-time by Neeld and the MFC coaches.

Yes, but except on game style with Casey and on game day......big difference. By the way how much time does MN actually spend with 'his' team during the week. FWIW It is clear MN can't get the job done where is matters.....between the players ears and in their hearts when they cross that white line.

Furthermore, to use a coaching term, the 'Key Indicators' that should be looked at are the scoreboard and win/loss ratios. They speak for volumes IMO.

Personally I think if MN was selecting coaches like he has the luxury of with regard to players every week, based on stats etcetera, he wouldn't give himself a gig and would laugh down anyone's suggestion that he should.

He may well be a fantastic development coach but MFC need a SENIOR coach who can lead and bring the club along with him.

MN is NO LEADER.

[Earl Hood 6,101]

I went to my first Casey game in yonks hoping to see something from Taggert. Obviously I wasn't disappointed. Solid kick, couple of grabs although the four goals might flatter.

He looks promising but would need to continue today's form, even allowing for the fact that the ground was very wet, and waterlogged in one pocket.

Other observations: Hogan very strong in the air but kicked poorly today. Yes the ball was wet but he has this stammering approach half way through. Odd, he starts fluently, stammers for three steps and then recovers and...sprayed the ball today. Still the upside is his grabs were amazing.

Gawn was good in the air but the surprise for me was Clisby who had a very strong third quarter. Won plenty of it and used it well.

Jimmy T was busy but his disposal was not up to it, again the conditions were tough.

Blease supplied the game highlight in the second running off half back, taking a pass off Taggert I think, refused to bounce the ball, instead did the one two handpass, ran to half forward and drilled it from the boundary. His first quarter running goal was assisted with some lax umpiring - he ran about 25 metres without a bounce but at least he kicked straight.

Hold on am I hearing the first reservations on Hogan? His stammering kicking for goal approach! Are we heading toward another NQR recruit? please tell me no!

[bing181 9,330]

Yes, but except on game style with Casey and on game day......big difference.

Not at all. Casey play the way Neeld and the MFC coaching staff want, and Welsh spends time at MFC so that the strategies align. On game day at Casey, the Melb development coaches are the line coaches for their areas, coaching the same way and with the same goals as with the seniors.

Fully integrated. Casey is a Melb. reserves team in all but name.

As one of the other thread states, the problem is not Neeld, it's the inability of inexperienced players to take their Casey form into the AFL, where the pressure and intensity is so much greater. A couple of turnovers, a few opposition goals and they crumble. Confidence, self-confidence, experience. Takes time.

[spirit of norm smith 16,589]

Develop Gawn, Taggert, Tynan, Toumpas, Kent (and of course Hogan) all at Casey this year. They will get a winning feel and play alongside each other.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Thanks Eittocs12.

For a team this should be the rule not the exception.

Even though MFC have a coach that can't coach it is good to see some serious pressure being applied to the playing group from below..........."keep the bastards honest" as big Gough once said.

Cough, hmmn, I think it may have even been Don Chipp.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I think it needs to be clarified that there's a difference between the objective of embracing the wider and fast developing Casey/Cardinia region and gaining a toehold there for future membership growth and the current relationship between the MFC and the Casey Scorpions.

Nobody doubts the difficulties in an AFL-VFL alignment but you can't call ours dysfunctional. It's not much different to the others and in fact, better than many of the others which have crumbled or are crumbling. The Blues and the Hawks have completely swallowed up their aligned clubs, the Bulldogs are splitting with Williamstown, Essendon's departure from Bendigo decimated that club and the Sandy/St. Kilda combination isn't looking all that healthy, not to mention that there are significant problems with the quality and size of TBBO.

Casey itself is virtually broke after issues with pokie licences (I'm sure the cost of Fevola didn't help) and is having its own debt demolition campaign soon. It understands the issues involved with AFL player list management/surgeries and other matters that have plagued the end of their seasons. It's not ideal but against the bigger picture of what benefits can be attained by the partnership in the long run, the Casey venture needs to be looked at above and beyond petty club politics.

As far as the toehold MFC will struggle to hold its own members within its own ranks let alone attract new comers from the corridor of growth. And a couple of cute and cuddly local paper articles won't get you there.

The relationship is dysfunctional due to the behaviour of both clubs towards each other.

1. MFC are in a LT relationship with a club that has mismanaged its financial affairs and blew money on poor recruiting.... Sound familiar.

2. MFC have continually shipwrecked Casey in August of each year kneecapping the hope of side and the aspirations of the coach. It's no wonder quality sub AFL coaches like Peter German and others don't hang around. In addition, MFC treatment of Watts earlier this year when they dropped him and failed to give him a chance to regain confidence at Casey was a slap in the face for the player and another kick in the guts for Casey. If MFC were serious about aligning with the community in Casey then why wouldn't they seek to ensure that Casey is a success and win premierships? Might actually attract members, local sponsorship, community interest and money into Casey...Hmmm.

And you right there are other VFL alliances in trouble. It does not make the Casey-MFC less or not dysfunctional it just means there are other similar dysfunctional arrangements. The VFL is a problem child for the AFL due to the impact of fully absorbed sides against dysfunctionally aligned clubs and stand alones ( which bar Port Melbourne are basket cases). The AFL needs to better define what the VFL is and what it's purpose is because at the moment it's neither fish nor fowl as either a proper AFL development program or a community supported league.

Anyway the MFC-Casey relationship is what it is. And while I like the game reports and updates, IMO you are glossing the true disposition off the relationship. Keep up the good work on the game scores. Casey playing winning football has been one of the very few positives over the past 2 years. Cheers

[Sir Why You Little 37,151]

Develop Gawn, Taggert, Tynan, Toumpas, Kent (and of course Hogan) all at Casey this year. They will get a winning feel and play alongside each other.

Not a bad idea at all.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

Cough, hmmn, I think it may have even been Don Chipp.

Thank you Comrade.

[Whispering_Jack 30,682]

I looked at the VFL ladder this morning and noticed that the Casey Scorpions are on top. That might be a bit misleading because some teams have played one game less because of the bye and the uncompleted round. Casey were also the minor premiers last year.

I only wish that the effect of the alleged dysfunctionality on the Melbourne Football Club was the same as it is for the Casey Scorpions.

[Whispering_Jack 30,682]

Taggert is going to be one of the solutions to the MFC's pathetic midfield.

the kid is a gun,

And speaking of answers to our midfield, great to see Jimmy T get 21 touches in his first game since his ankle injury.

I really love Casey, why the hell cant the MFC play with that heart?

I don't think that the MFC plays with a lack of heart as much as with a lack of experience, size and strength. I happen to agree with Mark Neeld when he points to the lack of games in the legs of our inexperienced team compared to the opposition.

However, when you get to the VFL, our players actually not only can match it with opposing clubs in terms of talent but also in experience, size and strength. It's no coincidence that Casey's worst performances occur when it has less MFC listed players as it did a fortnight ago against the Box Hill Hawks when they were down to 10 (or 11 if you count Jesse Hogan). At other times, the number has been up as high as 15 or 16. On the basis that you're only as good as your bottom six players, this definitely makes a difference with regard to the structure of a VFL team and its capacity to win games.

What critics of the alignment often fail to understand is that because the MFC has been performing poorly and has had high injury numbers in recent years, we have a higher turnover of players between AFL & VFL teams meaning we get less players qualified for the VFL finals (because they have played more than the required numbers at the more senior level). When you then have a few players who have to go for early surgery to ensure they have a decent pre season the following year (eg Fitzpatrick & Spencer last year) the armchair critics whose understanding of what's going on is only superficial, squeal like stuck pigs that the relationship must therefore be dysfunctional.

If the Firtzpatricks and Spencers of the world missed out on a substantial slab of their preseason because they delayed their surgery, the naysayers would be complaining as well.

As far as keeping your promising young players down in the VFL is concerned, I think that's fine to an extent but eventually they need to be rewarded if they continually show good form.

I think things will improve after the AFL bye and that the make up of the team will gradually change for the better with the return of some of the better players from injury and the elevation of others currently earning the keep at VFL level.

[pitmaster 3,581]

Hold on am I hearing the first reservations on Hogan? His stammering kicking for goal approach! Are we heading toward another NQR recruit? please tell me no!

He had two attempts from 40-45 metres from the same left hand pocket. Each time he sprayed it across the face to the opposite pocket, where, as it happened Gawn took good contested marks and goaled each time.

It might have looked like a set play but for Hogan's disgusted reaction. Beach Oval is prone to wind but there did not seem much yesterday, so Hogan's kicking might be a concern or it might be just a bad day.

[rpfc 28,781]

The alignment with Casey is te least of our troubles and the continued involvement in that area part of our salvation.

Not to mention it provides a great platform for our younger players to develop in a more constructive fashion than when they are asked to do too much in the AFL.

And to KC - I not only appreciate your words on the games and the performances but also for your opinion on the MFC's work in the area and with the Scorpions.

It is your perspective that should be valued for you are the prototypical local supporter that can measure our work with the local team and area, and who we one day hope to turn into Demons. It's good to hear our work in the Casey region is so promising.

[Return to Glory 8,448]

The alignment with Casey is te least of our troubles and the continued involvement in that area part of our salvation.

Not to mention it provides a great platform for our younger players to develop in a more constructive fashion than when they are asked to do too much in the AFL.

And to KC - I not only appreciate your words on the games and the performances but also for your opinion on the MFC's work in the area and with the Scorpions.

It is your perspective that should be valued for you are the prototypical local supporter that can measure our work with the local team and area, and who we one day hope to turn into Demons. It's good to hear our work in the Casey region is so promising.

Agree on all counts. I have come around in relation to Casey and, Rhino, I know you think it's dysfunctional but n comparison to other affiliate relationships, it's flying. And they win games!

[rjay 25,094]

Hold on am I hearing the first reservations on Hogan? His stammering kicking for goal approach! Are we heading toward another NQR recruit? please tell me no!

He had two attempts from 40-45 metres from the same left hand pocket. Each time he sprayed it across the face to the opposite pocket, where, as it happened Gawn took good contested marks and goaled each time.

It might have looked like a set play but for Hogan's disgusted reaction. Beach Oval is prone to wind but there did not seem much yesterday, so Hogan's kicking might be a concern or it might be just a bad day.

Hogan's kicking at goal had been the only knock on him as a junior (which technically he still is) but it has been pretty good since he's been at Casey. So let's put it down as being a bad day.

[dazzledavey36 55,362]

Anyone that watches casey tell me about Taggerts body size? Is he a big bodied mid?

[Return to Glory 8,448]

I've seen him a couple of times. Perhaps think slightly rangier Col Sylvia.

[Return to Glory 8,448]

Dazzle, I've been pushing his barrow but he'll need time. Doesn't get huge stats IMO but polished when I've seen him.

[titan_uranus 25,045]

The alignment with Casey serves another benefit I haven't seen mentioned here.

It gives the MFC exposure in a growing young family market.

We all know we need to ensure kids support Melbourne. Families moving to Casey/Cardinia are getting to see MFC players playing for Casey and training at Casey. An invaluable benefit, if you ask me.

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

Stand alone teams
1. Geelong
2. Essendon
3. Coll
Take over VFL team
4. Hawthorn
5. Carlton
Attempting to start stand alone team
6. Richmond
7. Western Bulldogs

Split alliance
8. North
Alliance
9. St Kilda
10. Melb

AFL ladder of Victorian teams
1. Geelong
2. Hawthorn
3. Essendon
4. Carlton
5. Coll
6. Richmond

7. North
8. Bulldogs
9. Saints
10. Melbourne

I don't believe this is just coincidence.

I really like Casey but the way this is all shaking up if we don't have a strong management in selection, tactics and development of our players at Casey then we are shooting ourselves in the footy. People say it's a shame that Preston Bullants and Box Hill Mustangs have been taken over but I see it as the way forward. It's time for a massive shake down of the VFL I think. At the moment the poor AFL clubs who have alliances are just bolstering the competition and developing players for other sides. Every time we send a strong Casey team up against Ess/Geel/Coll we just help their youngsters get better. I'm not sure how we fix it but I'm sick of our young players been at a disadvantage to other guys from other teams.

[rjay 25,094]

Stand alone teams

1. Geelong

2. Essendon

3. Coll

Take over VFL team

4. Hawthorn

5. Carlton

Attempting to start stand alone team

6. Richmond

7. Western Bulldogs

Split alliance

8. North

Alliance

9. St Kilda

10. Melb

AFL ladder of Victorian teams

1. Geelong

2. Hawthorn

3. Essendon

4. Carlton

5. Coll

6. Richmond

7. North

8. Bulldogs

9. Saints

10. Melbourne

I don't believe this is just coincidence.

I really like Casey but the way this is all shaking up if we don't have a strong management in selection, tactics and development of our players at Casey then we are shooting ourselves in the footy. People say it's a shame that Preston Bullants and Box Hill Mustangs have been taken over but I see it as the way forward. It's time for a massive shake down of the VFL I think. At the moment the poor AFL clubs who have alliances are just bolstering the competition and developing players for other sides. Every time we send a strong Casey team up against Ess/Geel/Coll we just help their youngsters get better. I'm not sure how we fix it but I'm sick of our young players been at a disadvantage to other guys from other teams.

The Casey Demons.

[Pennant St Dee 13,305]

The alignment with Casey is te least of our troubles and the continued involvement in that area part of our salvation.

Not to mention it provides a great platform for our younger players to develop in a more constructive fashion than when they are asked to do too much in the AFL.

And to KC - I not only appreciate your words on the games and the performances but also for your opinion on the MFC's work in the area and with the Scorpions.

It is your perspective that should be valued for you are the prototypical local supporter that can measure our work with the local team and area, and who we one day hope to turn into Demons. It's good to hear our work in the Casey region is so promising.

+ 1 get the MFC right and the amount of kids in the growth corridor, community/coaching events and it will be a big long term salvation for the club.

But we must get the MFC right for the full potential to be realised

[Redleg 41,497]

He had two attempts from 40-45 metres from the same left hand pocket. Each time he sprayed it across the face to the opposite pocket, where, as it happened Gawn took good contested marks and goaled each time.

It might have looked like a set play but for Hogan's disgusted reaction. Beach Oval is prone to wind but there did not seem much yesterday, so Hogan's kicking might be a concern or it might be just a bad day.

It was a bad day. He is an accurate kick based on the day I saw him.

[Invincible 9]

Went and watched the game yesterday. What is the go with Hogans set shot routine. He starts ok then a few steps before he kicks his left foot ends up behind his right foot. Is he going to be another example of the way we develop our juniors.

[Invincible 9]

Those that reckon Taggert will go into the midfield, if you watched games he is always forward. Apparently Neeld put him into the forward group after the first practice game. Rotates around the forward line but not midfield. Maybe another junior we can stuff up.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,093]

Those that reckon Taggert will go into the midfield, if you watched games he is always forward. Apparently Neeld put him into the forward group after the first practice game. Rotates around the forward line but not midfield. Maybe another junior we can stuff up.

Do you know how many top sides start their young players as small/mid sized forwards to let them ease into the game at the top level and then promote them to the midfield if/when they show they are ready for it? All of them you say? Would that be right?