NAB CUP 1: NORTH MELBOURNE AND RICHMOND

[autocol 448]

Am i the only one who though tom couch was pretty impressive? Won some clearence and was alot quicker then magner

I reckon Couch is the man to take McKenzie's spot. He's played some incredible games at VFL level.

[BangkokDemon 96]

I didn't see any of the games or even hear any commentary, I'm in Burma where the internet is as slow as Brock McLean. Just from the stats it seems our problem is still spread. We did well in contested possessions but fell way behind in uncontested possessions.

This is easier to fix than the opposite problem we had under Bailey, one step at a time.

Loved reading the comments on Hogan, thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I've been to every game in Melbourne for the last 6 or 7 years except a few last year when I was feeling a bit over it and knowing I'd be away this year wanted to visit my folks more. They aren't getting any younger. I'm going to be relying on you guys this year so keep it up, cheers.

I'm in Thailand - err, as my name suggests - and after a bit of messing around I managed to watch the last couple of minutes of the Norf game and all the Tiges game through the AFLtv website.

I see most games via the Australia Network (ABC) and so should you be able to do nowadays in Burma, if you have a dish ? But the they don't start carrying games until the weekend after next - then about 6-8 per week in the real season.

Anyway, back to the game. There were several positives tonight. Others have gone into them in more detail. Mark Neeld is right in not making statements about how much we will improve, but there were definite signs that we are developing in a positive way.

With such a different approach to how we want to play and with so many new players things might take a bit of time to gel (hopefully not much more than 6-8 real games).

But, what I saw tonight makes me feel I will get value for money from signing up again for another year.

GO DEES!!

[DeeSpencer 26,273]

I agree, It's a big call, but I thought after tonight he looks capable of being an AA backman.

Watts was a shining light last year I thought, he just gets harshly judged because he was a no 1 pick.

To some degree the number 1 pick hurts him, but the bigger problem is he throws in the occasional half hearted soft effort that ruins a lot of good work. That is his test for the year. Don't flinch, hit the ball hard in the air on on the ground, if he does that all year he will have a great year.

The biggest problem remains the lack of effort to spread and force an opponent to beat us going through us not by simply romping around or over us. To me it's very disappointing because from under 12's everyone learns the concept of manning up yet it seems the dees players haven't quite understood it yet. It's on the midfield at the centre bounces where you see 1 opposition player evade 3 melbourne witches hats to then handball to 2 running opposition players, but its a full ground problem. We still don't seem to create any defensive pressure to lock the ball in the forward line. Some of that is on the mids not stopping the outlets, but a lot in on the forwards not realising when the ball is won by their opponents and working super hard to stick to their men.

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

I reckon Couch is the man to take McKenzie's spot. He's played some incredible games at VFL level.

Although Mckenzie screwed up a few disposals, his tackling was a real highlight! And his inside work is amazing!

From my seat at etihad it looked like Nichlson had improved his kicking!

It looked like hogan will be a star.

Chris Dawes struggled to take a mark.

Dean Kent should have played on straight away to get the 9pointer in the first game.

Viney is a genuine goer, and that how quickly he bounced up after being shirt fronted by tuck (I think) was amazing.

Real positives

Watts run from the back line

Our midfield work was much improved

A fwd line with Clark, Dawes and hogan will be intimidating

Tackling was good

Negatives

Pederson looked out of it

Some real poor turn overs

Frawley being killed

[7-UP 107]

I am guessing Nathan Jones was in Dustin martin's ear about the rumors swirling about him?

[olisik 4,060]

Mckenzie is a one trick pony, we will not make finals with players who do nothing except tackle. The game is about the ball, not the man.

[Bring-Back-Powell 15,249]

Is it just me or has Sylvia escaped a bit of criticism here?

[S.R.J 418]

Ok guys and gals, ive read all the comments and some of you have forgotten that we have been crap for a while.....we are not playing finals this year so get over it. I saw a different demons side especially in the 1st game. North had a good list out there plus they will play finals his year. Richmond gamewe had a lot lesser side than the 1st game. In my honest opinion we needto alll suck it up this year as there will be a few lows and a few highs, we just have to ride the roller coaster that is MFC. Overall we will get there just not 2013 or possibly 2014. I will bet that Neeld will turn over about another 6-7 players this year come end of season. So lets hang in there think long term and try to enjoy the wild ride......giddy up.

[Moonshadow 17,678]

Ok guys and gals, ive read all the comments and some of you have forgotten that we have been crap for a while.....we are not playing finals this year so get over it. I saw a different demons side especially in the 1st game. North had a good list out there plus they will play finals his year. Richmond gamewe had a lot lesser side than the 1st game. In my honest opinion we needto alll suck it up this year as there will be a few lows and a few highs, we just have to ride the roller coaster that is MFC. Overall we will get there just not 2013 or possibly 2014. I will bet that Neeld will turn over about another 6-7 players this year come end of season. So lets hang in there think long term and try to enjoy the wild ride......giddy up.

Thanks Dad

[Footynut 302]

Ok guys and gals, ive read all the comments and some of you have forgotten that we have been crap for a while.....we are not playing finals this year so get over it. I saw a different demons side especially in the 1st game. North had a good list out there plus they will play finals his year. Richmond gamewe had a lot lesser side than the 1st game. In my honest opinion we needto alll suck it up this year as there will be a few lows and a few highs, we just have to ride the roller coaster that is MFC. Overall we will get there just not 2013 or possibly 2014. I will bet that Neeld will turn over about another 6-7 players this year come end of season. So lets hang in there think long term and try to enjoy the wild ride......giddy up.

You are absolutely spot on Srjennings on all counts...

[Return to Glory 8,453]

Am i the only one who though tom couch was pretty impressive? Won some clearence and was alot quicker then magner

No you're not. I thought he was ok and needs to be persevered with - in the same way as Sam Mitchell was given game time early on. I'm not saying he's the next Sam Mitchell but, to my mind, he has similar smarts. Ultimately, that's what also makes a team look quick IMO

[Hannibal 5,814]

The Richmond game was s/house, but they looked pretty good against a strong North outfit. The midfield is obviously our weakness and a gun off half-back to compliment Watts is desperately needed. I take a fair bit from the North game. As others have mentioned, it was a win under normal rules.

Dawes will struggle as the main man. He'll be better with Clark back. This team is crying out for Jack Trengove to be the player we hoped. As a midfielder Grimes makes a great backman. Jordie McKenzie will do my head in this year. I don't think he's good enough, but I know he'll play every game and finish top 5 in the B&F. Joel MacDonald simply isn't up to it. I'm not a Dan Nicholson fan. I get very nervous when he gets near it. But there are also plenty of positives. Most importantly the coaches now get to work on the areas that weren't up to scratch. That's what these games are all about.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Ben-Hur

[The heart beats true 18,183]

Just from the stats it seems our problem is still spread. We did well in contested possessions but fell way behind in uncontested possessions.

We have 3 problems.

One, as you've noted is spread and run in the midfield, another is skill. If you don't run hard to create the next opportunity and your teammates can't hit a target when you do the hard work it doesn't exactly inspire you to keep working.

I felt like in both games I watched opposition players wait out wide for us to make skill errors and then get a break away. It makes us look like we are not working hard enough when the opposite is often true. The running endeavor was right (positioning will come with experience for the younger guys) but if the skills aren't right then you can be the most elite runner in the game and still look lazy.

The 3rd problem is that we have very little on field ability to shut the game down. once a team has a run on the siren has to go before we reset. That annoys the hell out of me.

[Moonshadow 17,678]

No you're not. I thought he was ok and needs to be persevered with - in the same way as Sam Mitchell was given game time early on. I'm not saying he's the next Sam Mitchell but, to my mind, he has similar smarts. Ultimately, that's what also makes a team look quick IMO

If only he had Sam Mithchell's lightening hands, immaculate disposal by either foot, great decision making and leadership qualities.

[DemonOX 8,837]

Update on injuries as reported in the HS

"Melbourne lost Sam Blease to a sprained ankle against the Roos and James Frawley was helped off with a gashed head and concussion after a head clash with Tigers forward Jack Riewoldt."

[Redleg 41,942]

Is it just me or has Sylvia escaped a bit of criticism here?

Not from me, he was very ordinary. Appeared not interested.

[Redleg 41,942]

The Richmond game was s/house, but they looked pretty good against a strong North outfit. The midfield is obviously our weakness and a gun off half-back to compliment Watts is desperately needed. I take a fair bit from the North game. As others have mentioned, it was a win under normal rules.

Dawes will struggle as the main man. He'll be better with Clark back. This team is crying out for Jack Trengove to be the player we hoped. As a midfielder Grimes makes a great backman. Jordie McKenzie will do my head in this year. I don't think he's good enough, but I know he'll play every game and finish top 5 in the B&F. Joel McDonald simply isn't up to it. I'm not a Dan Nicholson fan. I get very nervous when he gets near it. But there are also plenty of positives. Most importantly the coaches now get to work on the areas that weren't up to scratch. That's what these games are all about.

Can't believe I am saying this, when I think about another thread, but I agree entirely.

I thought Pederson is smaller than we were told and was very ordinary, though plenty of time to show if he is up to it. Thought Flash was worried out of it by Morris and was useless. I also think Magner and Couch are not AFL.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Can't believe I am saying this, when I think about another thread, but I agree entirely.

Some can think rationally ALL of the time.

[Thehardtackler 785]

There were One or two glimpses to suggest that Michael Evans may cement a spot in the midfield this year. Magner played poorly but may be better at the G. Colin Garland may well be replaced by Gillies or Sellar if he does not improve his disposal by foot. Hogan was a hero and Toumpas could be our midfield superstar in a few years. Watts looked impressive and has finally become a man. Dawes did create a goal and just needs to find some confidence. Rodan looked lively and so did Byrnes. Davey looked fitter than he has done for ages but needs a confidence boost. I also liked what I saw of Dean Kent. Strauss may not have played but is an intelligent player and will slip into our back line during the main season.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Thehardtackler

[JJJ 1,333]

Can't believe I am saying this, when I think about another thread, but I agree entirely.

I thought Pederson is smaller than we were told and was very ordinary, though plenty of time to show if he is up to it. Thought Flash was worried out of it by Morris and was useless. I also think Magner and Couch are not AFL.

Agree.

I didn't understand the recruitment of Pederson and I am still none the wiser. His centre bounce work was woeful and his work as a key forward was underwhelming to say the least. I guess Nth had their reasons to use him so sparingly last season but as you say, he has plenty of opportunities to prove me wrong.

We have a long way to go and a lot of players to sort through. Sigh....

[DirtyDees DDC 190]

That's the closest we've got to North in years. The forward line worked well with Dawes as a target, and Howe coming thru as the 3rd tall. I thought Pederson offered something to the club. He wasn't outstanding (apart from one great pack mark against North) but he was a better 2nd ruck option than Sellar.

The side that plays the first two halfs (of this odd 3 team round robin) will struggle in the second against a fresh team, and Richmond were very fresh. I thought they were very impressive in that first quarter; they were quick, they moved the ball well and hit targets. I didn't think there was much we could do, and we were lucky they deliberately slowed their game in the second quarter (saving themselves for North). The big downsides were our general kicking, and getting smashed in the clearances.

Watt to like:

- Howe kicking 2 straight from set shots (just Howe kicking straight for goal was a bonus).

- Watts may have to get used to being tagged this year. I can't see other teams allowing him to run free on the backline. He's too dangerous. How was that run and carry from him in the second quarter? His accelleration and disposal was fabulous, and he can come over the pack and play the spoiler - like Rivers.

- Hogan. He new what to do as a forward how to find space and present a target . That goal in the first quarter where he was on the boundary from a set shot where he bent the ball through - very classy. Someone called Reiwoldt tried the same thing for Richmond - from the same spot - and not even close.

[Roger Mellie 4,173]

Joel Mac was worse.

Splitting hairs

[Bossdog 2,002]

I have just read this whole thread and I cannot believe it is the 22nd Feb.....Yes that's right....22nd of FEBRUARY......

Ten posters have gone out the back and shot themselves

Five have cut their wrists

7 have bought sniper rifles to shoot half our side.

and one has such a bout of depression that nothing will save him

All on the back of a 3 way practise hit out in FEBRUARY....

Lets keep it a little bit real folks.....

[Dee Dee 1,135]

I went to the game - first preseason game I've ever witnessed. Gee it's just the footy version of 20/20 cricket and about as serious.

However I was thrilled with what I saw of Jesse Hogan - he has a presence that will turn into an arrogance the like of which we see in Buddy and saw in Carey! But watch the diet kid 100 kg at 17 - don't want it to get to 130 at 22!

And Jimmy Toumpas! The kid has class written all over him, knows where to go to get the ball and knows how to use it. Apparently he is a mature and level headed kid and he looks it!

Give him a few regular games to find his feet and he will be a genuine assett to the team!

And as for our effort against Richmond, forget it, it was bloody hot out there and I reckon if we had been given the break instead of North we would have performed far better!

(Didn't we beat Coll*@#%ood in a pre season game last year? Destroyed their year!)

[Roger Mellie 4,173]

For those that didn't see it a rough player by player guide:

Hogan - a gun in the making, marked strongly, hit targets, pushed off his opponent, huge. Will be a huge asset to the club. Boy do we need him this year

Jones - 14 disposals in first half. Set for another great year

Watts - Good game, good vision and clean disposal. No sign of hitting a contest hard yet. Will get attention in the real stuff

Toumpas - Had 6 or 7 possessions in the 2nd half (didn't play 1st half). Clean, smooth, composed, class written all over him

Dawes - Didn't get much of it but plenty of traffic direction - one good mark, good contesting and second efforts. While Hogan clearly had the better game, Dawes was pretty important as a forward line general. Didn't play 2nd half and forward line crumbled

Viney - did some great work but just finding his feet - goes flat out. Used sparingly in 2nd half (as was Hogan)

Frawley - Was looking for the Frawley of old, but mainly ridding himself of a few cobwebs, better in first half before injured. Kicking style would not look out of place on a rugby pitch.

Byrnes - busy and will be an important player in the short term. Good disposal and quite clean

Sylvia - drifted in and out of game - not much

McKenzie - off ball work good. Shocking disposal and not great choices. Could count effective disposals on one finger. I hope he was just rusty

Dunn - found a lot of the footy and could have had better ball use. Needs to work on when and how to punch (ball and opponent)

Roden - Half a dozen touches in the first half - most of them to our advantage. Sprinted away with the ball from one contest in fine style (didn't play in 2nd half?)

Grimes - Cobweb clearer, just OK (being a little bit generous but worked hard)

Blease - loved the look of his game before injured early and did not return. Looks to me to have lifted his game up a rung or two, mainly with his running

Srauss - DNP

Garland - OK to Good defensive game killed by disposal ordinaire - more cobwebs

Pedersen - Looked like he'd never played with the MFC before which is fair enough. One good dish off was about it. Finding his feet.

Magner - Tried hard bit looked a plodder to me

McDonald - Looked very rusty. No sign of disposal improvement but not much to go on. Caught out of position at times. Just OK

Nicholson - Took the game on but unsure of how to use the footy. Suspect disposal

Gillies - Didn't see much of it but reasonably strong in defence and liked his 2nd efforts (played first half only?)

MacDonald - hard at the contest but rotten disposal, yuck (played 2nd half)

Sellar - Played 2nd half. Not much action from him but to me looked a bit tougher at the man, aggressive

Evans - A few nice efforts and touches. Would like to see more. Should've kicked that goal (played 1st half only)

Kent - Finds space in traffic and a nice kick. Looks a good pick up (played 1st half)

Davey - Bothered by opponent (again) but had a go without much effect. His clean disposal would have been useful

Howe - set for a good year. Hard at it. 2 good marks for goals and looks to have improved kicking for goal. Would have missed one or both last year

Jetta - OK, fairly quiet - a few good tackles but generally knew what to do with it. Caught out of position once or twice. Would like to see more

Jamar - Rusty and slow

Spencer - Rusty, slow and later injured (played 2nd half)

M Jones - Played 2nd half. Few touches so not enough to comment

Terlich - Played 2nd half. Not too many touches but looks like he will adapt quickly. Sensible use of footy

Couch - Played 2nd half and played well which I didn't expect. Good at clearances and OK disposal. Not enough for an upgrade in my view but depends on injuries

Fitz - DNP