Daniel Bell - mild brain damage

[H_T 3,047]

Well Chris Connelly was on 774 and said that Samantha Lane had held onto this story for a couple of weeks to make sure it was fair and balance and club was doing all that it could to help Bell

Yes that's right. They've got the doctors giving him the right treatment & advice and the welfare people talking to him on an ongoing process/basis. At this stage a compensation claim hasn't been lodged - which is why I stated that.

[old dee 23,792]

The catalyst for the new concussion rules, I believe, is the situation currently ongoing in ice hockey.

The NHL's best player is still out after amfew heavy hits & they're not sure when he'll be able to return (last I heard).

Re: Bell, I immediately wonder if that's what made his career stall and him suddenly regress as a player.

My heart goes out to the bloke, I wouldnt wish that on anyone.

These are the things we know little about and its scary to think that peer pressure to be tough can lead to such unforseen circumstances later in life.

I heard him on the radio this morning and he said he used find himself in the wrong spots on the ground and could not remember why he was there or where he should have been.

Used to get embarrassed when it was raised at team meetings.

So I would think you are correct.

It is a tragedy that this has what has happened to him.

After all for us it is only a game for entertainment.

I hope all out here who have challenged the AFL over their new ruling on concussion

reconsider this morning.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

I hope we can work something out for him.

Precedents are powerful things...

Outside the courts would be better. Agree to take care of any healthcare costs, concerning his head, for the rest of his life as they arise?

That would be an epic fail for us.

In what way is the Melbourne Football Club to blame for Daniel Bell's injuries? That is the key question, and I cannot work out how Bell proposes to answer it.

He has specifically stated that there was no mismanagement on the behalf of our doctors. If that is the case, then how did we contribute to his brain damage? Did we pick him when he was injured? There does not seem to be any evidence, nor any suggestion, of that happening.

It was his decision to play AFL. The sport is inherently dangerous. I strongly doubt he was unaware of this before signing any contract with the MFC. In the end player autonomy needs to be respected. He chose to play AFL. The MFC, as he admits, did everything it could to manage his injuries. It was the MFC doctor who referred him to the neurosurgeon who diagnosed him with his brain damage.

I feel for Bell. This brain damage may have been a strongly contributing factor to the termination of his contract (if it led to his lack of awareness, which I would guess was one of the primary reasons for his being delisted). But I do not believe the MFC can be held liable for those injuries. If we agree to take care of healthcare costs into the future, that sets a terrible precedent for future players who receive injuries as a part of playing AFL to hold their club ransom when the club did not do anything wrong.

Just on this point, it should be made clear that Bell is not actually seeking legal damages or "suing" the club. He is exercising his entitlement in accordance with the industrial agreement that governs the terms and conditions of employment for all AFL players. It is really no different to asking to be paid out the balance of your annual leave on termination.

If it is not compensation, what is it? He is effectively saying 'I received brain damage as a result of playing AFL. I want the MFC to help me deal with it'. It sounds a lot like compensation to me, and you can't be held liable to compensate someone if you didn't cause their injuries in the first place.

Of course, I haven't read the agreement, so I don't know exactly what provisions are in there, but it doesn't sound terribly fair for players, even those like Bell who may have seriously been affected by these kind of injuries, to hold the club responsible.

[Grapeviney 9,722]

agree titan, i think he's going to struggle with his claim

''The only mismanagement was from my own will to play,'' he said.

also think it's a bit disingenuous to want the matter settled discreetly, via the mainstream media ?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,783]

Am I imagining it or was one of the reasons given for introducing the new substitute rule a concern expressed by the AFL that the speed of the game could lead to greater impact injuries? If so, and if the substitute rule leads to a reduction in the number or consequences of impact injuries, then the substitute rule should continue to be supported. And, if the evidence shows an interchange bench of two plus two (meaning two substitutes) is better for players' long term health perhaps that should be supported, too. Having said that, though, I'd want to see hard evidence that the substitution rule is working in this way rather than making an unsubstantiated guess.

With respect to Bell, I wonder whether the persistent concussions he talked about led to the lack of awareness or vice versa.

[rpfc 28,440]

I'm with HSOG - we employed him and we should take care of him.

Employers are getting away with too much these days, employees are more than chattle.

Take care of those that represented you, at some risk to themselves.

[mauriesy 7,298]

In what way is the Melbourne Football Club to blame for Daniel Bell's injuries? That is the key question, and I cannot work out how Bell proposes to answer it.

He has specifically stated that there was no mismanagement on the behalf of our doctors. If that is the case, then how did we contribute to his brain damage? Did we pick him when he was injured? There does not seem to be any evidence, nor any suggestion, of that happening.

I don't think Melbourne is specifically responsible. But we (football generally) constantly ask players to 'put their heads over the ball' and brand players who don't as 'squibs'. We can't really escape the consequences of such a demand.

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

If it is not compensation, what is it?

...

Of course, I haven't read the agreement

It is "compensation" of a sort - but he is only asking for what he is entitled to under his workplace agreement, he is not "suing" the club. It is the akin to you asking to take paid sick leave after suffering an injury. This isn't a matter of doing the right thing by Bell, it is a matter of honouring the legally binding terms of the collective bargaining agreement.

AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUEandAUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE PLAYERS’ ASSOCIATIONINCORPORATEDCOLLECTIVEBARGAINING AGREEMENT2007 - 2011

Schedule B, Clause 11:

11. Injury Payments

11.1 (a) Where a Player:

(i) suffers a Final Year Injury; and

(ii) makes an application to the AFL for compensation in accordance

with this sub-paragraph,

the AFL Club shall pay that Player 50% of the Player’s contract base

payment as at the last year of the Contract.

( B ) In this Agreement:

“Final Year Injury”:

(i) means injury which:

( A ) occurs in the last year of a Player’s contract with an AFL Club;

( B ) occurs in the course of the Player’s employment as an AFL

footballer, including travelling to and from training, Matches or

other activities authorised by the AFL Club; and

( C ) in the opinion of an independent medical practitioner, will

prevent or be likely to prevent the Player from ever playing

football at senior level in any competition;

(ii) does not include an injury which:

( A ) is caused or contributed to by the Player’s own negligence; or

( B ) in the opinion of an independent medical practitioner, is part

of and principally caused by a Pre-existing Condition or

Injury or a de-generation of a Pre-existing Condition or

Injury.

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

...I might add that you would have to be incredibly harsh to make out that Bell's total on-field commitment amounts to "negligence"!

[old55 23,593]

(ii) does not include an injury which:

( A ) is caused or contributed to by the Player’s own negligence; or

( B ) in the opinion of an independent medical practitioner, is part

of and principally caused by a Pre-existing Condition or

Injury or a de-generation of a Pre-existing Condition or

Injury.

Listening to Belly on SEN I did hear some info which fitted this.

Hope he continues to make good progress with his therapy.

[Rogue 585]

I heard him on the radio this morning and he said he used find himself in the wrong spots on the ground and could not remember why he was there or where he should have been.

Used to get embarrassed when it was raised at team meetings.

So I would think you are correct.

It is a tragedy that this has what has happened to him.

Wow, that's sad to hear.

I feel for Bell. This brain damage may have been a strongly contributing factor to the termination of his contract (if it led to his lack of awareness, which I would guess was one of the primary reasons for his being delisted). But I do not believe the MFC can be held liable for those injuries. If we agree to take care of healthcare costs into the future, that sets a terrible precedent for future players who receive injuries as a part of playing AFL to hold their club ransom when the club did not do anything wrong.

If it is not compensation, what is it? He is effectively saying 'I received brain damage as a result of playing AFL. I want the MFC to help me deal with it'. It sounds a lot like compensation to me, and you can't be held liable to compensate someone if you didn't cause their injuries in the first place.

Of course, I haven't read the agreement, so I don't know exactly what provisions are in there, but it doesn't sound terribly fair for players, even those like Bell who may have seriously been affected by these kind of injuries, to hold the club responsible.

I can't recall the details, but I'm pretty sure that when players receive a career-ending injury that means they can't continue to play football they are entitled to a payment, subject to various conditions. (EDIT: Refer to Hazyshadeofgrinter's post).

I thought this was why you didn't see guys who were coming out of contract and going to be delisted, fronting up for the VFL teams in finals unless they signed a waiver.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Good luck to Belly and i trust a sensible solution can be agreed between the player and the Club. Its in no one's interest bar lawyers if this escalates and goes to Court.

All the best to Daniel Bell.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

The AFL are the custodians and governing body of the game. While no doubt, the MFC have an obligation to Daniel and I' m sure will do the right thing, ultimately, it is the AFL that needs to take the bulk of the responsibility. On the face of things, the MFC cannot be accused on not taking enough care in the "workplace"

It is the AFL, whether the through the AFLPA or direct from HQ, that needs to make a statement on this and not simply change the rules, after the horse has bolted, so to speak.

[Cards13 9,117]

The catalyst for the new concussion rules, I believe, is the situation currently ongoing in ice hockey.

The NHL's best player is still out after amfew heavy hits & they're not sure when he'll be able to return (last I heard).

Re: Bell, I immediately wonder if that's what made his career stall and him suddenly regress as a player.

My heart goes out to the bloke, I wouldnt wish that on anyone.

These are the things we know little about and its scary to think that peer pressure to be tough can lead to such unforseen circumstances later in life.

What has always amazed me about the NHL is the fact they still wear those "helmets" to protect themselves. They are pieces of plastic and it is too ingrained in the hockey players psyche to actually think about wearing a helmet that might protect the brain in some of the most violent hits you will see.

And to read this gives me a loss for words. Good Luck Belly:

"I heard him on the radio this morning and he said he used find himself in the wrong spots on the ground and could not remember why he was there or where he should have been. Used to get embarrassed when it was raised at team meetings."

Edited March 31, 2011 by Cards13

[Whispering_Jack 30,172]

Sorry to hear about this and I hope Belly comes good. He was a loyal member of the club for a long time and the injury puts into context some of the difficulties players experience at this level. I wish him well for a speedy and complete recovery.

[Nasher 33,616]

And to read this gives me a loss for words. Good Luck Belly:

"I heard him on the radio this morning and he said he used find himself in the wrong spots on the ground and could not remember why he was there or where he should have been. Used to get embarrassed when it was raised at team meetings."

Me too, Cards. I've tried to comment on that several times and have been unable to find the words. I find the thought of that extremely distressing.

[nutbean 8,838]

Not sure who it was ( my dodgy memory) but I have heard on a couple of occasions clubs paying for clean up operations of players who have just gone into retirement.

This is slightly different.

I have no issue with treatment being paid by the club and I assume this is covered by the clubs insurance - interesting thought - would insurance covers players no longer on the list - I would have thought the premiums would be based on 44 players on your list - premiums would probably go up dramatically if players looked for medical expense coverage from the club post playing days . My thought is the club should be paying for these treatments.

However in Bell's case it is more than covering medical costs - its is of the re-compensing nature. It does open up a can of worms - for example - Jimma has said on many occasions that his body was so battered from playing injured and with needles that he cant even kick a football with his son - does he have the same valid claim as Belly ?

Can anyone remember the (Carlton ?) player who sued the league due to a knee reco required from a sub standard Etihad surface - was he seeking compensation over and above medical expenses ?

I still think that diminished or altered lifestyle due to football injuries should be compensated. As someone earlier said - we ask players to put life and limb on the line for the club - we need to accept the consequences.

[e25 5]

Shaun Rhen sued the AFL, but that was from slipping on a cap embedded in the turf for umpires to bounce the ball on.

The Carlton player..? Sort of rings a bell, but can't remember who it would have been.

Cain Ackland?

[e25 5]

Luke O'Sullivan injured himself at Waverly

http://www.sportsnewsfirst.com.au/articles/2010/07/27/players-could-sue-over-etihad-surface/

[nutbean 8,838]

Me too, Cards. I've tried to comment on that several times and have been unable to find the words. I find the thought of that extremely distressing.

Not wanting to sound "holier than thou" it does bring home to roost what players do risk on the field for our passion/pleasure/amusement and puts things into perspective. I have never been a player basher ( and never will be ) - happy to critique performance but I resist using words dud, spud or hack. This strengthens my resolve to never "go the man" but rather objectively give opinion on strengths and weaknesses of the various talents at the players disposal. ( after appropriate consideration !)

Whilst Belly's limitations were documented his courage to put the head over the ball was never in question and it seems he has paid the price - I wish him all the best and hope he gets all the help needed.

[nutbean 8,838]

Luke O'Sullivan injured himself at Waverly

http://www.sportsnewsfirst.com.au/articles/2010/07/27/players-could-sue-over-etihad-surface/

Thats the one ! Luke O'Sullivan.

The Shaun Rehn was really pointed as this was single obstacle on the ground that caused an injury.

The next step is Luke O'Sullivan - a whole ground that could be considered dangerous causing injury.

Then we have Belly - the game itself that has dangers to ones health.

Is the progression above illogical ?

[old55 23,593]

And so many people reckon they get paid too much!

The current AFLPA claim for 27% or revenue should be viewed in the light of this article.

Or the fact that players can't play a round of golf without a cart because they can't walk the cause due to the battering their bodies have taken.

[Sir Why You Little 37,045]

I wish Daniel Bell all the best in his recovery.

I heard him speak on SEN this morning.

I also heard Cam Schwabb speak on the same issue. The MFC doctors are still taking care of Belly, so there is absolutely no malice here.

This is also the reason the players association are pushing for a "Super Scheme" for past players. Our game is getting faster & players are hitting each other harder in Contests.

Sometimes Brain injuries take months or even years to surface. I hope Daniel can make a full recovery & the MFC take good care of him.

Ben Johnson's hit on him was the catalyst for his career end sadly.

[13thflag 0]

Wish Daniel all the best.

[Finks 19]

A mate's wife wrote this. Just another point of view:

"Dear Sam,

I was flabbergasted by your article in The Age this morning. It is compensation claims such as this that are destroying not only our beloved game of football but society as a whole. I appreciate that you stuck to telling the facts of the story in your article, but such hypocrisy should be met with disdain, not compassion.

Was Mr Bell aware that AFL Rules is a contact sport? And if he is so concerned about putting his beloved Dees back into debt, how could he consider putting in such a claim, regardless of whether the club or their insurer have to make the inevitable compensation payment? In your article Mr Bell admits that the only mismanagement was from his own will to play. End of story in my opinion. Too often people these days want to blame everyone else for their misfortune and, while I am sorry for his diminished mental capacity, it is unjust, selfish and greedy to seek financial gain because of it. It stinks of a man who is bitter about the unfortunate end to a physically traumatic career and I feel for the Melbourne Football Club Management for the PR nightmare they are now facing.

Daniel needs to have a good hard look at one of Australia's finest individual's, Jim Stynes, who continues to battle through each and every day and finds the courage to help others in need rather than wallow in his misfortune.

Kind regards,

Ange"

From a well being standpoint, I wish him well in his recover.