Jack Watts

[PJ_12345 1,098]

This I find an urban myth based on a total cop out. He was set up on that QB debut but surely that can't be used as an excuse anymore, he has a coach now who has not handled him well at all. Dragging Watts (he was not the worst that game) was always going to draw focus on a kid who did not need it, then dropping him and have him hang around without a game. This is poor player management and Neeld finally lost me with this.

Its true. I went to a game at Casey after his AFL debut and CC was there. I asked him how Watts was going and he said it was confidence issues.

CC stayed around and pointed out some things to me, like the biggest issue is that he used to go to ground too often in contests.

How has Neeld not handled Watts well?

Watt's played his best footy last year under Neeld. Had the 3rd highest average disposals in the team and his personal best average ect. Quite litterally he has improved every stat you look at.

Other posters have addressed why he was dropped due to his injury.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Bossdog: I highjack every thread because of the seriousness of the situation. I truly believe we are in a death roll. Doing nothing or pretending things are not as they are will bring us to extinction.

Ok then.....I'll just go out the back yard and pick a successful coach from my coaches tree, shall I?.......Which one would you like

a/ One that the players love??

b/ One that the supporters love??

c/ One that can rebuild in 6 months???

d/ One that can change the culture and playing group immediately??? (if not yesterday)

You pick..... and make sure that he is the right one....One that can change everything NOW........But don't be wrong because you will be the one whingeing and moaning when he doesn't.....

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

Everyone talks of culture. Well forget about the personalities involved and whether or not you like Jack, a good culture DOES NOT GIVE AWAY ITS CORE PLAYERS and a good culture DOES NOT LOSE PLAYERS to other teams. Jack's confidence is shot and he is too scared to do anything because of the way he is treated (I cannot name my source as it will compromise their position in the club) so what sort of culture denigrates its players. What culture belittles a leadership group when you have been in an organisation for a week. Ask the board member who let it be known that the coach has had a blue with every member of his staff. Good culture don't leak like a sieve.

PJ needs to send a message that we don't give up on our players, we don't treat them like dirt and we value their contribution and efforts and we want them to stay and improve. Fix the FD first and do it yesterday. I want Chip, Sylvia, Watts, Davey and Gawn all to stay because we will miss them when they are gone.

What are you going on about? Ablett left the cats or is that differant. He left for money and missed out on a flag. Do you mean the leadership group which has tolerated sub standard performances for years? Another post has already stated some of his best football has been under Neeld. Running away won't make him stronger. If we can get a suitable trade then so be it. Edited May 23, 2013 by Al's Demons

[MadAsHell 4,088]

As has been mentioned, I think Watts is to important to the club to let go. Loosing another No 1 Pick isn't a great look. The fact that Jack isn't a free agent leaves us in a decent position to retain him anyway.

I wouldn't be suprised if he signs a Tippet type deal in that we sign him for 3 years (up till he's a restricted free agent) and if he wants to walk after that we'll let him.

I'm also confident Sylvia will stay (very loyal bloke), Gawn will stay (don't even know where this rumor came from, and I reckon he thinks he owes the club) and we don't really have to worry about Chip for another 12 months, so not loosing any sleep there.

Some may say I have my head in the sand, but I'm not concerned at all. These poor excuse for journos have to sell papers some how and we're an easy target!

[rpfc 27,516]

As has been mentioned, I think Watts is to important to the club to let go. Loosing another No 1 Pick isn't a great look. The fact that Jack isn't a free agent leaves us in a decent position to retain him anyway.

I wouldn't be suprised if he signs a Tippet type deal in that we sign him for 3 years (up till he's a restricted free agent) and if he wants to walk after that we'll let him.

I'm also confident Sylvia will stay (very loyal bloke), Gawn will stay (don't even know where this rumor came from, and I reckon he thinks he owes the club) and we don't really have to worry about Chip for another 12 months, so not loosing any sleep there.

Some may say I have my head in the sand, but I'm not concerned at all. These poor excuse for journos have to sell papers some how and we're an easy target!

When it comes to list management I like to think I am very capable of removing blinkers and seeing things for what they are.

Sylvia is to be kept but I think he will leave. As a 'list manager' there is only so much power I have.

Frawley is to be told that he can come to the club and ask for better terms if he wishes. Hopefully he is a RFA next year (one of the 10 highest paid players) and we hold the cards.

Watts is a tough one as his skills are elite and his physicality near the other end of the spectrum. If a suitable trade was offered then you would listen to it but he is an 'asset' and you don't just give those away.

In terms of immediate importance - we need experience and talent but Watts has become 'tradeable' due to our forward line and backline having 6 talls younger than 26 who are all more accomplished than he is (Clark, Dawes, Hogan, Frawley, Garland, and McDonald).

[Dr. Gonzo 22,500]

Ok then.....I'll just go out the back yard and pick a successful coach from my coaches tree, shall I?.......Which one would you like

a/ One that the players love??

b/ One that the supporters love??

c/ One that can rebuild in 6 months???

d/ One that can change the culture and playing group immediately??? (if not yesterday)

You pick..... and make sure that he is the right one....One that can change everything NOW........But don't be wrong because you will be the one whingeing and moaning when he doesn't.....

Supporters are for the most part realistic. They're not going to hang a coach for not making finals in his first year or a GF in his second but it's not too much to ask to see some improvement and an indication they are on the right track. That's all we ask is to see we are on the right track but nothing in the past 2 seasons shows that at all.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Dr. Gonzo

[DemonWA 3,442]

Watts is a tough one as his skills are elite and his physicality near the other end of the spectrum. If a suitable trade was offered then you would listen to it but he is an 'asset' and you don't just give those away.

In terms of immediate importance - we need experience and talent but Watts has become 'tradeable' due to our forward line and backline having 6 talls younger than 26 who are all more accomplished than he is (Clark, Dawes, Hogan, Frawley, Garland, and McDonald).

RPFC in what universe is Tom McDonald more accomplished player than Jack Watts? He might be a better runner and he has a good attitude, but I've never seen a player with such poor skills and decision making get the wraps that Tom gets on here. Will be a good player in time, fine, but he's not there yet.

Also naming Hogan as more accomplished before he plays a senior game for the club is a bit rich too!

[DeeSpencer 23,189]

The most straight forward way to sum up the Watts situation is to say that the rest of this season will dictate whether he should be traded/wants to be traded.

If he improves on his hardness for the contest and intensity then it will be obvious to me he's a player worth keeping. The upside will be too much to let go especially given he's the age and games played where he should be right on the cusp of cementing a spot (and I mean within AFL players not in the 22, anyone can cement a spot in our 22).

If he still can't work out how to defend an opponent and how to attack a contest with vigor then we may as well let him go because he probably never will whilst he is wearing red and blue.

[Soidee 1,496]

If Watts and others are thinking about leaving then it is now time Jackson pulled out his aces. I will [censored] spew if Watts goes and Neeld stays. FFS MFC get your act together and sort this out pronto.

[Ouch! 2,040]

The AFL need us to be competitive and have stated it several times. They have their man fixing us up. I somehow don 't think they will allow us to be plundered which would destroy any chance of us getting better.

I agree that the AFL needs us to be competitive, but what exactly can they OR their man do? They cannot give us more money to offer these guys, they can't change the minds of the players or the other clubs in expressing interest in them... Only thing is to sell a vision to convince these players to stay...

[daisycutter 28,598]

A death roll?.....does that mean when it happens we will shed crocodile tears?

Oh no the sky is falling?.....believe we are going to forfeit against Freo this weekend, can't afford the plane fare

hate to tell you satyr but the sky has already fallen for us, quite a while back

we are just waiting for the earth to swallow us up, unless we do something about it and quickly

at least we know we can always count on you to turn out the lights when necessary

[robbiefrom13 877]

so watts, the bloke weve all defended for years and years, put our hope in, wants out. if he goes, [censored] the club, [censored] the afl and [censored] footy, im off.

for me, it is first Jurrah, now Watts - if they can't recognise, and develop, and embed the rare talent they acquire, quite right - stuff em. But it hasn't happened yet - and maybe there are cards a competent management could play, in a situation like this?

There is no escaping the fact that the players are our ONLY assets.

were you being serious, I wonder? I am.

[robbiefrom13 877]

Calm down people.

Show me any evidence that Watts doesn't want to stay on with us? Show me evidence Frawley doesn't want to stay with us? Gawn?

Managers understand the [censored] situation we are in.. and they also understand we will play overs to keep these players if they stake it out to round 22.

Until Jack, James or Max makes a statement.. I would relax.

Scully was offered the biggest contract in the AFL.. James, Jack and Max won't get half that.

Scully was not struggling under the same disincentives as these players are, arguably, today. A lesser contract may be acceptable when the desire to relocate is greater.

[The Reverend 1,704]

This is the best post i have seen around these lands for quite a while.

You're easily pleased.

[chookrat 3,776]

By now most here should know my opinion. After round 5 last year I started writing posts outlining the terrible choice we made in making Neeld Coach. I said that he had divided the players, he had lost the players before he even coached his first game, I said Neeld did not have the personal skills or management skills to be head coach, I said after round 6 Moloney and Rivers would walk, midseason I spoke of a major falling out (fight) between Neeld and Martin and that he would never play for Melbourne again. I spoke of a falling out between Jurrah and Pettard with Neeld......... but few listened.

I told all that would listen that Neeld was the greatest mistake since firing Norm Smith and that if we did not remove him quickly he would drive us into extinction. I said we were in a slow motion train crash.

I was and still am called an alarmist, a nutter, other people asked for me to be banned from this sight, however, everything I have said on this subject has turned out to be true.

This season, I have said that as things currently stand, Frawley, Sylvia and Watts would leave season end. Again as recently as yesterday I have been smashed.

My information has never been made up, it has come from within the playing group and player managers.

I love this club and l will do anything I can to help ensure its long term viability and survival. I have made significant donations to this club via debt demolition. I only want to see my club survive.

It is time for those who still have their head in the sand to wake up. We are deep in survival mode. We should no longer be looking at Premierships, we must put all effort into survival. Make no mistake, we have 2 to 3 years to turn this club around or we will be relocated or merged in time for the next broadcast contract. If we lose more senior players that task will be close to impossible. Its time to look at the big picture, everything must be done to hold all our top 25.

I will make things very clear to all who will listen.

Mark Neeld may not be the person who started the rot, however, he is not the person for our club. He has divided our playing group, he has lost our players, he does not have the motivational or personal skills required. He is a cancer, he is part of the problem rather than the solution. He was a terrible choice in head coach.

The ONLY chance we have is to fire Neeld immediately, replace him with a motivational coach that can unit the players and do whatever we can to land Roos or then next best experienced coach. Only then may our players stay. Only then may we survive.

This is the train wreck I told you all was coming. I am devastated.

We must move quickly while there is still time. I again call on the board to fire Neeld immediately.

GNF - I dont disagree with all of you observations but look at them in a different way. Cultural change is difficult and Neeld has always said that the older players would take longer to adapt han younger players. The observations you make would be typical if any major change in an organisation. A real positive I take is the performance if players like Aaron Davey, Col Garland and Col Silvia. I think Neeld and co are expecting more from players like Watts and if he rises ti expectations, then he like Davey and Garland, will really start enjoying his footy.

I dont buy into the doom and gloom and given our poor performances onfield and the offield distractions it is a very good sign that older players like Aaron Davey are starting to enjoy their footy.

Appreciate you feel we need to act urgently to replace the coach, but I think such an act would self perpetuate your position.

[chookrat 3,776]

Its true. I went to a game at Casey after his AFL debut and CC was there. I asked him how Watts was going and he said it was confidence issues.

CC stayed around and pointed out some things to me, like the biggest issue is that he used to go to ground too often in contests.

How has Neeld not handled Watts well?

Watt's played his best footy last year under Neeld. Had the 3rd highest average disposals in the team and his personal best average ect. Quite litterally he has improved every stat you look at.

Other posters have addressed why he was dropped due to his injury.

Since he was drafted Watts has always been described as an outstanding character. I think hes now being driven to a higher standard and with his character should be able to use this to improve. I think once he realises he can step up his confidence will inceease dramatically. If he steps up this season I expect he will stay because he will see MCC as a club that can help him realise his potential. At 60 games Jack needs to show he can have more impact on games.

[robbiefrom13 877]

I have already posted in another thread that I have a friend who volunteers for the club with fundraising efforts and is in the rooms at every game before, during and after the game. All the statements about the players not being behind Neeld were dismissed, rather their comments were that they had never seen the playing group so united.

This HUN article is just speculation. I also wonder why people would say that it is Neeld who is the sole problem if Watts really is disgruntled. What about Bailey??? What about the 3 1/2 years that he was in charge and the club stupidly decided to debut Watts for the Queens Birthday clash in 2009 for "marketing" purposes. Seriously, if Watts has a problem with the club, I think it would have more to do with the pre-Neeld era than the post-Neeld era.

The playing of Watts in that game was a mistake, but I have not seen any discussion of whose mistake it was.

At the time, I was pretty disturbed to see the flimsily-built Watts attacked by the Collingwood players and none of his team-mates flying the flag. His first shot went just wide, and no-one showed really any interest. For the first few games he played, no-one would kick it to him. I got used to seeing him running to the boundary trying to get the ball before it went out of bounds. It seemed to me that the team were not proud to have him out there with them, were not looking out for him - there was a sort of standing back which made no sense to me at all. I have wondered about it. It must have undermined him, his leads became really half-hearted, and so on.

I wonder whether playing him that day was a Schwab idea? It seems to me exactly the sort of pseudo-symbolic (or whatever it is) nonsense that made up so much of Schwab's thinking. If this were so, it would explain the players' reaction to Watts, as being so similar to what we understand to have been their reaction to Schwab.

The cancer at the club has surely extended into the career of Jack Watts, and while many of the problems today may not have been of Neeld's making, yet Neeld was in a position to have given everyone a clean start - and he clearly failed to do so.

Whatever happens, my respect for the perseverence and resilience of Watts is colossal; my dismay at the waste of talent is equally colossal - and I do not see how we can blame Watts for it. He has no idea what he has to do, I am sure of it. And don't jump up in frustration telling me about "getting some mongrel" or whatever - this guy who we recruited is not a Mitch Robinson battering ram, he is a supremely gifted and intelligent ball user, who has not found his place in the team. The team has no Watts-shaped place - same as it had no Jurrah-shaped place, same as it had no Green-shaped place, etc. Nice one, Neeldy.

[Grand New Flag 3,226]

Ok then.....I'll just go out the back yard and pick a successful coach from my coaches tree, shall I?.......Which one would you like

a/ One that the players love??

b/ One that the supporters love??

c/ One that can rebuild in 6 months???

d/ One that can change the culture and playing group immediately??? (if not yesterday)

You pick..... and make sure that he is the right one....One that can change everything NOW........But don't be wrong because you will be the one whingeing and moaning when he doesn't.....

The damage that Neeld has and is still doing is untold. It is a unprecedented disaster.

It is hard to imagine anyone doing a worse job. At this stage anyone would be better than Neeld.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Grand New Flag

[Ted Lasso 16,855]

We have three players who would all be in our best 10 players without a doubt, all could become significantly better than what they are, Frawley has been a much better player than he is

so we need to sell these three guys a vision of a better future or we will lose them and noone could blame them for walking in this situation,

i think we should move Neeld on, get craig or viney taking over and start a campaign to sign a big name coach, waiting is weighing the risk of a player walkout against the risk of not gaining anything from games we may gain nothing from anyway.

[pm24 451]

The team has no Watts-shaped place - same as it had no Jurrah-shaped place, same as it had no Green-shaped place, etc. Nice one, Neeldy.

I disagree with this because I think since the middle of last year, the club has clearly identified Watts as a Mackie type rebounding defender. People continue to bang on about Watt's not having a thirst for the contest, but if he's been identified as the player other team mates need to get the ball too, then I can understand him waiting on the outer of the contest in order to receive the handball and deliver the ball into the midfield.

Also, I think a lot of people have treated him unfairly in respect his "lack of hardness". How many here would like a guy like Mackie on the list??? I know I would, but he's hardly the big bustling defender we all think we need, yet he is a premiership player, and widely regarded as one of the most dangerous half backers in the league with ball in hand. This is the type of role I believe the club see's Watts playing. And with Clarke, Dawes, Pederson and soon Hogan to play in the forward line, I reckon it is great list management to put Watts into a role in the team where he can use his skills to the biggest benefit of the team.

[Grand New Flag 3,226]

What are you going on about? Ablett left the cats or is that differant. He left for money and missed out on a flag. Do you mean the leadership group which has tolerated sub standard performances for years? Another post has already stated some of his best football has been under Neeld. Running away won't make him stronger. If we can get a suitable trade then so be it.

Ablett equals 1 player. Not 5 of your top 10 over 2 seasons.

[jnrmac 19,064]

Can we please stop this crap?

The media will bring up every name of an uncontracted or out of contract player for a possible trade. Its a game that the media and the player managers play.

You can't do anything about it. Don't stress. Don't worry. It will be what it will be.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Since he was drafted Watts has always been described as an outstanding character. I think hes now being driven to a higher standard and with his character should be able to use this to improve. I think once he realises he can step up his confidence will inceease dramatically. If he steps up this season I expect he will stay because he will see MCC as a club that can help him realise his potential. At 60 games Jack needs to show he can have more impact on games.

You're right, what is unanimous is his ability to read the play and ball.

Personally I dont think its a matter of condifence issues anymore. He took some great contested marks when last up forward, which I think contributed to half of our total contested marks. Its about effort.

MN obviously has a view that the club is bigger than a single player, and that if players don't put any effort in because they dont like the positions they are forced to play in (see Moloney) then you're out.

I'd like to see what Watts can do again up forward. That being said and done if he isnt putting forward the effort when he is down back, which he is being paid to do then see you later.

I'd like to keep him.

[jnrmac 19,064]

A friend of mine knows Watts. Thinks he will go. He's sick of losing and being booed by his own supportera. Unless things improve. He is gone.

He could start by trying?? His efforts this year have been deplorable.

[DeeZee 6,759]

The players are sick of losing and being miserable all the time just like we are.

The only difference is we bleed for the club, and love the club as supporters, for the players its a career.

Normally a player would be happy to stay loyal to his mates and club, but when there is no chance of short term success and you are being offered more money elsewhere to play for a more succesful team you would probably go.