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The players were fitter than they had ever been according to club stats. Last year was not a fitness issue The problem stems from them working really hard in pre-season to perform at home. They basically didn't have a break over the summer and never switched off. They were super keen and worked extremely hard over the summer. But they totally cooked mentally half way through the year. Hence the allusion to 'work vs footy balance' in Jan / Feb

I think Chnadler gets underrated on this site as well, i think Koz will play more midfeild time this year and Chandler will step in as the pressure small forward (along with Spargo and Nibbler). Im looking forward to seeing some games.

Today’s Herald Sun features some stories from yesterday’s preseason training sessions including one from Rebecca Williams on Melbourne training on Page 63 (no online link but here’s part of it covering an update on the skipper who trained early and beat most of the track watchers): The article goes on to cover some other aspects which I summarize below: FORWARD FOCUS JvR has impressed track watchers with his preseason form over summer. He “provided a strong and mobile marking target for the Demons during match play on Wednesday”, with some impressive overhead marking. With TMac in full training after the foot injury which curtailed him in the second half of last year, this augurs well for the club’s forward stocks. WELCOME BACK TMac’s teammates didn’t go easy on him during match play. Trent Rivers applying a heavy spoil on him while going for a mark and gave away a free kick but TMac decided to play on and had a free paid against him when Rivers launched a fierce tackle that brought him to the ground. INJURY LIST Melbourne GM of football performance Alan Richardson is on the injury list. He had his right foot in a moon boot yesterday at Goschs Paddock. LIGHT WORK Jake Lever (bruised foot), Jake Melksham (minor calf issue), Charlie Spargo and Joel Smith (ankle surgery) were among those on modified training loads. The Demons expect all of the players to integrate back into full training over the next 1-2 weeks.

I’m glad the club recognizes how unrealistic that 2021 finals series / season was and how impossible it is to replicate such a perfect dominance. It was a once in a lifetime performance we will never see again, and we need to stop trying to fall into the trap of wanting a repeat of it. lol @ Richo talking about the “websites” talking up JVR 😂

Led well and is a natural at taking marks at highest point. Great natural leads too has bulked up considerably already so by time halfway mark comes he’ll be a big boy! Also really good around corner and at ground level for a big boy

I hope it is also physical aggression because teams like the Swans went hard at us and they won. In the GF the cats sat the Swans on their [censored] in the opening minutes. Dees need to do the same.

McClure has always left me cold. But that is an excellent interview. Great questions and richo found a nice balance between cliche and honesty. Asked about game plan, richo said no wholesale changes, but philosophicaly more aggressive. Which gels with observations from track watchers.

I’d prefer that he get his thumb (?) / hand (?) / wrist (?) fixed first. 😄

Well it was a real treat to get down to GP today and see the boys train well in the flesh on a lovely Melbourne Summers day!!! I’ll keep my notes brief and in summation or dot point format if possible, as always the Reginald trackies do a bang-up job 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Highlights: • First thing that really caught my eye right out of the gate was how much Clarry has altered his shape. Is far less top-heavy and far more ‘sinewy’ in I feel is an effort to utilise his first step more & be more explosive more often given the added midfield depth this year. Significant change imho • Thought JvR was super impressive in the flesh. Has come a LONG way condition wise & will only fill-out more but his touch in the 1-1 drills was absolute quality. What really impressed was the ‘un-teachable’ things, the nuance that comes with being a killer contested mark ala David Schwarz 1993-1994. I’m talking. About the angles, the deft touches, the use of both hands independently, the nudging of the opponent one-way whilst he angles the outside hand the other. His timing in air is still developing, but the bustling 1-1 with opponent stuff is 💯 craft that’s there and will be plenty good this season right outta the gate. He got away from Petty a few times on the lead, but was well quelled in the air by Pig or Petty, but JvR is only soaking it all up to build craft and you can see him rethinking the next contest. • Next standout was the all-around quality seen on both teams in the SIM on all lines. GAWN are the days where the class of a select few just scream out at you in comparison to the group. Sure, Viney, Trac, Clarry, May etc they shone brightly but it’s with 5% here and 5% there as opposed to just out & out utter domination! • Salem & Gus were silky smooth and the former’s hands were again sublime as always. Best marking mid in the game just about. Salem was reading the play well and breaking lines inc some forays through the middle. Just a class act that will benefit enormously from a full pre season. • Thought that TMAC looked in absolute RIPPING nick, combo of 2018/2021 with 10% more upper bulk on shoulders and 10% more pep in his step in movement. Fluent both ways and lateral movement was there too. In air timing looked sharp sharp sharp • McVee is a player! just has real poise, smart by foot — doesn’t get lost and has real 360 footwork as well, which stood-out. Seems to be a player looking for smart bagged with little kicks to set up teammates, inc a nice weighted kick to Gus that helped setup a Grundy i50 mark • May looked to be even more of a general than usual with Lever absent. Looks mega fit and will scare the he’ll outta most fwds this year. Never beaten and set up numerous forays and switches.. • Wingers delight!!! Hunter and Ed just looked to be two thoroughbreds out there tearing up Flemington straight… having double the wide run means we now genuinely have an offensive and defensive threat at all times and means we can switch to either side of the ground without hesitation which makes all the difference. Hunter sneaking behind the defenders was also encouraging but most of all seeing the joy he was clearly experiencing being out there was wholesome! • The ball movement for both teams in the SIM was controlled but maniacal. First option handballs were taken and the ball barely ever hit the deck unless there was a spoil or strong aerial contest. The hands were clean and there was a number of side-back kicks to space to look for that overlap and turbo charged speed lane to open up. Given nature of ball returning to play before the kick has even passed the line, it was damn impressive to see the teams moving constantly to create space & not afraid • Vines was everywhere, wearing White #24 and really does look poised for an AA year. Like Clarry? Looks stronger yet leaner, a real trend in our mids • Hibberd competes so dang hard he looked frighteningly strong and fast. His arms are such weapons and it is so great to see him set a std for all to follow. His competitive edge has already begun to help Riv, Bowser, Woe etc • AMW has some real size about him, looking fwd to seeing his explosiveness once rehab completed. Spargo running laps was showcasing those new arms, holy heck they’re huge haha • Fritta was himself, finishing well and moving with cleverness inside 50. Wil benefit a heap from having an attacking wing to help him get in behind the defenders as well as swifter movement honouring his early leads more often • Almost ZERO deep corner locked entries 🙌 this was my absolute #1 TAKEOUT from todays session. The i50 licks were almost exclusively precise and <20m to a target in space and even the penetrating long balls were always to a target leading into open space ahead of the d50 opponents ie over the top and not just bagged in there with a set defence!!! Was evident this was being driven by the coaches and both Ooze, Choc and Staff all commented to players at points re how dangerous we look with this M/O. • Kossie is not only gonna play mid in bursts but he is going to dominate while doing it! Just has soooo much time and space in close and even when clearly barely in 2nd gear, it was evident that he could toy with anyone at anytime. Footwork is sublime, explosiveness is off the charts bit he looks SUPER! • ANB did some nice finishing things i50, Chandler looked competitive but still behind Spargo, Nib etc.. Burgoyne did couple nice things in the handball drills, def quick off mark first 3-8m especially but it’s his lateral movement that is his 1Wood. • Both Turners looked a little lost at times and caught in-between the play when compared to Harry, May, Rivers, Pig.. • Banter and talk was consistent and the encouragement for younger lads was excellent! Gus was vocal, as was May & the usual suspects. • Schache impressed me on several occasions. Running the ground well and seems to have a slightly steely-eyed focus & gave me the feeling he was really confident in his body and base fitness right now inc his frame which is strong, nimble and has a real pep In his step. Could be the real sleeper form this years recruits and with not much expected it could be the right time for Him to really come into his own • Seston is a player. His old man said until now he’s always just been told ‘sit in the goal square and feast’ so he’s learning risky what it takes to be an elite footballer and is clearly getting a huge ROI in just what it takes. Powerfully built, he’s got a low centre of gravity and legs that offer him explosiveness that I’m not sure even he would be aware of just yet, but there’s some serious x-factor there and if he manages to get the Petracca-type fitness build he is potentially something scary. But he may not & could be gone in 24m, but the risk/reward ratio is abundantly clear and well worth taking. Has a bit of A Jakovich about him. • Grundy looked fit and will be much better for the preseason as he needs some touch but that’s to be expected considering the amount of footy he’s missed. But showed his agility and ability to match it at ground level with the smalls as well as doing some nice things in the air as well. Look fwd to him getting some touch in early rounds and then lookout!!! Overall, it was a sensational session and loads of takeouts. Forth and evenness the big thing in combination with the movement..

Read my report if you can — this is the exact highlight for me yesterday as I saw the exact opposite of this and keep hearing goodie has given into Ooze re more corridor and faster movement but also more backwards and switching to create space. Saw NO bombed entries to pockets at ALL and this was highlight of the day for me.. all long entries were to a player running toward goal ie streaming into 50 from centre or wing etc but very few kicks to i50 were to packs at all maybe 1-2 but mainly wings only not i50. Apart from that trial academy kid Cooper Simpson - wow he was sooo good - I didn’t even notice Zane.

I always find it hard to select a team for Round 1 from just training reports in January. I will not let this deter me from expressing an opinion. This January there looks to be a healthy list and more than a few players that look likely. I really like the way that players are being developed and I do recall talk of making sure there is flexibility in the positions players are capable of playing. The coaching staff look to have followed through on that. BACKS: The key players look to select themselves to a degree. May, Lever and Petty to my mind are certainties for R1 if fit. As a unit they are, if not the best three-man defensive unit in the league, so damn close to It, it does not matter. Salem is another that I would think is an automatic selection if fit and firing. After that it is horses for courses and who is in form. Bowey, Hibberd and Rivers all could be selected for R1. There is plenty of quality depth and coverage for defence in the key positions as well as the small/medium defenders. Tomlinson sounds like he is super fit and keen and will cover the keys while we know Brayshaw can slot in to the back six if required. MIDS: If we look strong and well covered in the backs I think we are in an even better position in the midfield with the established players, the younger experienced players and the newer players coming through. Let’s see….. at the center bounce we have Petracca, Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw that have all been outstanding there and all looking strong at training. Add Sparrow, Harmes and possibly Pickett getting a run in the center or at bounces around the ground and we have good matchday cover and flexibility. Langdon on one wing is a certainty and it looks like Hunter to get first crack at the other. Jordon, Brayshaw (again) and ANB as backup on the wings. If required, I believe ANB could back up a wing and use his running and endurance as a weapon. RUCKS: Gawn as starting ruck: no question about it. BUT, What is the plan and does it work? A couple of questions that will only be answered when we are eating the pudding. Given Grundy’s experience and quality I think they will pull the trigger on playing them both in R1. There are so many ways to play the two of them with them either resting forward or back or a bit of bench time with a forward taking throwins in the Forward 50 and one or two of the rucks a kick behind. A lot of options that will have the opposition guessing. FORWARDS: Not an understatement to say there were a few problems in this area last season and it is hard to see any locks for the forward 50 besides Fritsch. Pickett is the other one I would lock in if he is to play forward predominately. The rest? Brown, TMac, JVR, Schache, Resting ruck? Key forward selection will depend on training perceived form and match practice. The smaller forwards are just as hard to predict. ANB and Spargo do not seem to kick enough goals but do have other abilities that standout. Anb’s running ability and endurance allows him to track from contest to contest so easily. Where Spargo is a good user of the ball and compliments that with good vision. Both have good cases for inclusion. Chandler looks to have stepped up a bit this pre-season and could make a case for a run in the forwards at the feet of the key forwards. Melksham to step up there as required? LOCKS: Backs: May, Lever, Petty, Salem Mids: Oliver, Petracca, Viney, Brayshaw, Langdon Ruck: Gawn Forwards: Fritsch, Pickett (?) NEXT PICKED: Backs: Two of Bowey, Rivers and Hibberd Mids: Sparrow,Pickett(?) Harmes, Hunter, Jordon and Dunstan Ruck: Grundy – dependent upon game plan Forwards: two of Brown, TMac and JVR. Two of Spargo, ANB, Melksham and Chandler. R1 OUTSIDER PICKS: Backs: Tomlinson, Turner, J Smith, D Smith Mids: Woewodin, Howes(wing) Forward: Schache, Laurie. January Guess for R1 Backs: Lever, May, Rivers HB: Salem, Petty, Bowey Mid: Langdon, Petracca, Hunter HF: Pickett, JVR, Harmes F: Fritsch, TMac, Spargo FOL: Gawn, Oliver, Viney Inter: Brayshaw, Harmes, Jordon, ANB, Grundy

The groin bone's connected to the... foot bone

Isn’t this just a reversion to an old rule. There was a stage, mid 00’s if I remember correctly, where it was deemed ‘play on’ if you gestured to handball. Happy to stand corrected, but I believe this was a rule in the past. Either way, I very good rule tweak.

Good analysis in my opinion.I also think injuries counted as well.Lever, May-and his suspension, T.Mac, Gawn,Oliver, Petracca, Salem ,Hibberd,B.Brown all contributed to the injury issue during the year whilst I think we failed to play Bedford, Chandler more when ANB & Spargo we’re down on form..

Rumour has it that Oliver has RSI from the effort involved in managing his hairstyle.

This made me smile. I hope it makes everyone else smile too. ❤️💙

My thoughts are that for us to continue to improve we need Rivers, Bowey, Sparrow and Jordon, to take the next step in their evolution as AFL players and Chandler, JVR, Turner, Howes, Laurie and Woewodin to step up to AFL level. This along with the excellent recruitment of Grundy, Hunter and Schache will provide the necessary refresh to the team to keep us in the hunt for No.14.!!!

What's wrong with that? It just confuses not only us but the opposition...

Good tweak though

The story of the two Academy players who are training with Melbourne (although more of it is about Zane Duursma) ~ Top AFL Draft prospect Zane Duursma impresses with Demons pre-season cameo

It appears some are trying to get the central corridors into play with more aggressive kicks. The ones that were turned over came from players trying to "thread the needle" or were a bit slow in making the decision, allowing for the defender, sometimes defenders to pick of the pass. I noticed that at the same time our flankers gave them options. Great they are going for it, and hoping they learn when and how. The best plays of yesterday came about when the backs switched and overlaps were created. There were plenty of long kicks into the forward area. It appears they are trying to get the ball over the back of the defenders. Turn them and allow the lead towards the goal. The leads to the pockets were mainly when the forwards got separation and had a straight lead. The kick to packs happened a few times, but it was not necessarily into a pocket area. Come game time, I can still see them resorting to the pocket (hold the ball in there), unless we get a dominate tall forward, that they can rely on.

Its hard to place that 2021 finals series historically. On the scoreboard we dominated, but we all know there were moments where things were on a knife edge, in the 3rd quarter of the GF and in r23. But at the same time, it seems ALL premiers go through the same trials. Richmond and Hawthorn as well. There really aren't any dominant seasons + finals campaigns in recent memory, unless we go back to the salary cap cheating days or maybe 2007 Geelong? Leaving mental traps about trying to repeat the past aside, we can absolutely repeat the year we had in 2021 again. It wasn't a 'perfect' domination, and we have the capability to have a similar season + finals campaign again. Just like Rich & Haw proved during their era's, and Geelong, buoyed by their easy/dominant prelim/GF's last year, will be hungry to replicate and go back to back. Shudder 🤮

Love it. Great detail and really appreciated. Have 2 concerns. 1- In 2022, Dees appeared to go wide and wide and slow. Often our attackers were easily cornered across the boundary line or had little space to work. Sounds like we will play the same wide boundary type game. That’s too easy to defend imv. The corridor is harder but comes with greater rewards. It takes real skill to penetrate through the corridor. Would love to see that challenge taken onboard. 2- our 2022 useless obsession with kicking to the (deep) forward pocket. High and wide to the pocket again. 😡 … Is that still on show? We are told “it easier to then defend as less goals are given up if the opposition rebounds”. Ffs. Take on our talent and confidence. We attack to score. Get it to the hot spot. Hit targets. How we bring the ball inside our forward 50 is probably the biggest impact change we can deliver in 2023. Get it right and I’m confident we will win 🏆 it again.

"Demons' Putting Better Than Background Music".

Just paid for my grand final guarantee

...and have a go at a header for this very average demonstration of delivering a ball to a target by our heroes:

Since the VFL became the AFL in 1990, I’d argue we’ve had the second most dominant finals series to date behind Essendon of 2000. Essendon had an aggregate margin of 230 points and never looked in any doubt at any point of that finals series, while we had an aggregate margin of 190 points with just a slight scare in the middle 2 quarters of the GF before dominating. Whilst Geelong’s 2007 side had an aggregate margin of 230 like Essendon (2000), they had an almighty scare against Collingwood in that years prelim and fell over the line by 5 points. My top 5 dominant finals series since 1990: Essendon (2000) Melbourne (2021) Geelong (2007) Richmond (2019) Hawthorn (2008)

I wonder if Stkilda will flick on the sprinklers and turn Moorabbin into a mud heap for us. Just like the good ol' days.

Family, fun and clinic for the Casey Demons VFLW side:

Time to put you all out of your misery. The team has been selected on the basis that the jumper numbers of the first two players on each line add up to the jumper number of the third player. eg Frawley (8) plus May (1) equals Johnson (9). I have made numerous allusions to this throughout the thread, with hints such as ADDITIONAL, PLUS, SUMMER, (dim) SUM, NUMBER, PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER, ADD UP and CALCULATED. The photo clue is BlackADDER. Simmonds and Baker were both nicknamed "Snake". A type of snake is the ADDER. Well done to all those who were able to FIGURE it out.

funny how most of those putts ended up in the pocket

I'm presuming 'aggressive', attached to 'philisophically', and AR's '...we had it taken away from us...(at times last year)' means in game style - i.e. moving the ball on more quickly, instinctively, to open (riskier?) areas of the field - not physical aggression. No mention the fall-offs were fitness-related - indeed he referred to 'getting the (work vs footy) balance right' in Jan/Feb. He also settles the Gawn/Grundy question: rotation through the forward line but not as key scorers; rather, creating situations for scoring (e.g. 'engineered' stoppages?) And JVR: 'keys' picked on 'form' and 'ready to go' and 'structure'. So not a Round 1 lock? Though he then refers to Saints and Tigers (and other) practices, evidently linking them - not just the 'real stuff' - to such decisions.

He started doing a little ball work (a small group of 4 or 5 handballing), but is still mainly on a running and gym program.

Nephew of Jamie.

Awesome Nudge - that’s why I come on here - absolute positivity!!! Tingling with joy with every point read. Great report. Thanks

Awfully hard to only pick 23 at this point in time. I’m hoping the AFL change the rules in the next month to increase player numbers from 23 to 30! That would make me happy. Until then my humble 23 is as follows: B. Rivers May Lever HB. Brayshaw Petty Salem C. Langdon. Petracca Hunter HF. Sparrow TMac Jordon F. Pickett JVR Fritsch R. Gawn Oliver. Viney INT. Grundy. Bowey. Hibbert. Schache. Chandler

Knowing training will be at Gosch paddock genuinely excites everytime because we get spoilt well by the same usual regulars who attend. Appreciate all the training reports lads @DeeSpencer @Slartibartfast @george_on_the_outer @Nudge @kev martin @Demonland

With the new Sub rule, I think we might start tall, 2 key forwards plus resting ruck, then Fritsch, Kosi, high small forward mid role. Have a small mid size as your sub

My theory after seeing The Fabelmans which is based on the early life of Steven Spielberg is that the markings are designed as a message to the aliens who are trying to find E.T. and get him back home. This is based on the fact that the movie E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial was released in 1982 and his planet is reputed to be a shade over 20 light years away. Of course, Chocco Williams might have a different explanation.

Agree. It's possible we go with just one tall forward, Gawn and Grundy and Fritsch with 4 smalls. If we do that then the one tall will be TMac or Brown, unlikely to be the inexperienced JVR with Gawn/Grundy. I think we need 2 tall forwards - so 50 games combined from TMac, Brown and JVR, and it's unlikely we'll get 25 from any one of them. I think they each get to play a fair amount of AFL games.

I think a few a discounting B Brown, terrible year last year but was asked to play a role that he struggled with. Bring in another tall to do the work further up the ground and get him back closer to goal and he is still capable of kicking 40 plus goals for a season

Good news everyone, I found my crystal ball and you can take out a second mortgage and put the house on my predictions. No seriously I was reading the Death Riding thread, and I thought it would be fun to predict other teams likely to fall from the 8. (This also supposes teams below them improve, not a given). For mine, the top 4 will all be in the 8 next year, I genuinely believe we have recruited well and our forward craft will improve. We survived our 'tall poppy' year of media sniping the coach and board room shenanigans (thanks so much ex prez). Geelong from the top 4 is closest to dropping out of top 4, but not going to hold my breath, I think they rely on Tom Stewart, the same way Salem is integral for the Dee's distribution off HB. I think we can now cover Salem going down better than they can cope with the loss of Stewart, I just don't think the Cats bat as deep as we do, and will be susceptible to injuries after such a brilliant '22 campaign (yes I feel dirty typing that), but they are brilliantly coached (Scott demonstrated his willingness to throw away his game plan and change everything in a single off season (and did what we did with the wings) and have a beautiful game, MFC v GFC will be one the heavy weight games next season. People picking Collingwood to fall because they 'tin ar$ed' some close finishes are dreaming, brilliant run, unified team, the Daicos's play like they have a PS5 cheat code, excellent defense and transition, smart coach, and on the other side of that salary cap debacle. They do need Sidebottom to have a good season though now Pendlebury and Grundy have left. I do think however that Grawny will monster them and we'll do them over with better conversion. Swans are not going anywhere unless the sky falls on Horse (and I hope it doesn't). Anyway this is about who is going to fall from Heaven... Richmond to fall like Lucifer, the media narrative around Dusty is not sustained by facts, he has had some devastating injuries, Messi, who just had the world's best Indian summer has never had the damage Dusty has, he might be fit, but he has a catalogue of soft tissue injuries that are going to cruel him the way Wayne Carey fell off, the instincts/skill will be there but the execution will fail. And even with adding Hopper and Taranto (they recruit well) I see defensive gaps, Grimes is not properly fit and nothing in Grimes pre season suggests he is going to come back as the gun defender he has been. I don't see the defensive ability that they had during their premiership years. Also teams that are not in contention for the 8 or on the border of it will all take more games from the top 8 teams this year, much shorter gap between the haves and have nots. Fremantle my second tip to drop from the 8, though they don't really inspire great emotion in anyone except in their supporters do they? As @Binman wrote in the death riding thread, Jackson just doesn't seem to make the sense he would to other sides with what they (Freo) had already, and what he brings, he's not kicking 50. They have the worst attack and I think are undersized for repeat finals campaigns. They rely on the brilliant, brave, Brayshaw too much, he's become a bit of Cripps, everyone jumps on his back. Fyfe who I adore, is not going to become a 40 goal player either, If I take my rose-coloured glasses off, I don't see the explosiveness into space that he will need with the leg injuries he has had. Would love to be wrong about Fyfe, through no fault of his own he has not had the career I had hoped he would have. I expect early wins from Freo but by the bye falling away. Lions despite their really good attack, I think this club has a leadership vacuum on field that will affect 2023, not just because Zorko is a nong I don't like, but because I don't get the impression that his team mates like him that much either. When I look at the last 20 years of premiers, the Captains really stand out, would you put Zorko next to a Gawn, Cotchin, Hurn, Mitchell, Hodge, Maxwell, Voss, even Murphy, you get my drift. Of those to replace Zorko, Harris's record as a clutch player is not there, Lachie is a gun without a doubt, but not a leader and when he's tagged out of a game, doesn't compensate. Dunkley might be a good choice for 2024 though. Anyway 2023 is their '2019', I am predicting Brissey to have one down year, with some pressure on the coach but I think 2024 will be a much better year for them. They have recruited really well and will 'surprise' everyone with a 2024 when Ashcroft and Fletcher have a big impact. They are 3rd team i see as a good chance to miss. The Dogs ... I know some folks think Beveridge has lost the plot, about to lose the plot or is otherwise NQR, but I see a team that has addressed some structural deficiencies very well with it's recruiting. Liam Jones will do wonders for the Dogs, If I was a Carlton fan I would be bleeding. Jones more than covers for Easton Woods. They have experience coping with the departure of key players, they recruit well, the big unknown is which Libba turns up, he needs to be on, if his mindset is not right they won't match the other gun midfields, but on balance I see the dogs more likely to stay up than the other 3 teams highlighted. The contenders I am bullish on the Suns if they get a fair crack with injury. Power, a good draw, some good recruits, not too many injuries like last year, they are not as bad a team as the form of 2022 suggests. I think Hinkley has good support although his game day stuff could improve. Never going to be premiers but 8-5 is their natural range. I suppose I have to say Carlton is a prospect, on paper they look good and I think Voss will fix the stuff between the ears. Not really interested in writing why they are good they just annoy me so much. My top 8 - (not attached to finishing position) Melbourne Geelong Cats Sydney Swans Collingwood Western Bulldogs Carlton Port Adelaide Gold Coast Suns The Ladder - Bold are my locks for the 8, italics are the sliders. 1 Geelong Cats 22 72 144.2 18 4 0 2146 1488 2 Melbourne 22 64 130.5 16 6 0 1936 1483 3 Sydney Swans 22 64 127.9 16 6 0 2067 1616 4 Collingwood 22 64 104.3 16 6 0 1839 1763 5 Fremantle 22 62 117 15 6 1 1739 1486 6 Brisbane Lions 22 60 119.3 15 7 0 2147 1799 7 Richmond 22 54 121.6 13 8 1 2165 1780 8 Western Bulldogs 22 48 108.9 12 10 0 1973 1812 9 Carlton 22 48 108.3 12 10 0 1857 1714 10 St Kilda 22 44 99.3 11 11 0 1703 1715 11 Port Adelaide 22 40 110.3 10 12 0 1806 1638 12 Gold Coast Suns 22 40 102.8 10 12 0 1871 1820 13 Hawthorn 22 32 89.8 8 14 0 1787 1991 14 Adelaide Crows 22 32 86.7 8 14 0 1721 1986 15 Essendon 22 28 83.2 7 15 0 1737 2087 16 GWS Giants 22 24 84.6 6 16 0 1631 1927 17 WC Eagles 22 8 59.8 2 20 0 1429 2389 18 Nth Melbourne 22 8 55.8 2 20 0 1337 2397 2397

After reading that no one will come near us for the next 5 years.

Obviously Aaron.

Injuries aside the Saints are typically useless and undependable. I'm pinning my hopes on the Lyon effect. He'll want to put one over the dockers so he just might coax a performance of his team.

Well, I am woke and I was one of the first Death Riders… I think it’s fine. And I can come up with worse too…

what did you say that wasn’t accurate? i haven’t got all day but i’ll help you out a little, you said AFLW players are lauded as amazing athletes which rarely happens in comparison to the mens. then you said they are lauded as legends and every article us the same which is so incorrect it’s not even worth expanding on. Then you say you haven’t seen her play! wow. what are you even doing on this thread? and the few articles pumping up womens footy, why do you think that is? maybe coz women have only been able to play footy for a decade whereas men have had it for over a century. and they still cop heaps of [censored] about it for no reason from insecure men