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Trac posted on his social media and discussed in one of the recent interviews he did that the doctors at MFC did what they could and he doesn't blame them. Whether his family agree with Trac's public statements or not is another thing, but Trac has certainly not been a diva about almost dying. So many posters (not saying you, necessarily, adonski, but certainly plenty in this thread and elsewhere after our losses) on here are warped in the head - requiring players to be hard as nails, spouting all sorts of toxic ideals... then when Trac almost dies because of trying to tough things out, baying for the blood of the club alongside the rest of the media.

INCORRECT, we are the oldest professional football club in the world. 168 years old. And we'll be around for another 168 years - long after we are all forgotten. A proud club, with a proud history, with players who have given their all, even in the many barren years. A proud club that deserves respect- least of all from supposed supporters. I've had it up to here with posters on this forum taking every opportunity to slag off the mighty dees.

They're apparently inducting Dane Swan into the HOF, why would you want to attend that? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2005-01-25/guard-feared-for-life-during-bashing-by/625160 https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/collingwood-star-dane-swan-accused-of-welshing-on-payment-to-bashed-cleaner/news-story/7ddafbe7a3e73289c5ba8f30eae13cfb Embarrassing sport.

Remember the old days when DL posters used to bag Jordon and ask for him to be dropped Now he is the missing link guess i shouldn’t be surprised

Yes I have, but I'll be blowed if I can understand why that would be relevant in a case like this. Tele-heath doc: How are you feeling - you look in pain. What are your symptoms?" Patient: It hurts a lot down there. Tele-healthh doc: I'll just hook you up to my combined virtual x-ray, MRI and UltraSound machine and diagnose you then. Hang on a jiffy....

Restraint of trade pure and simple. Will limit our ability to pick up players via free agency and re- sign current players. I Would threaten legal action, but FFS keep Adrian Anderson away!!!!!

Completely embarrassing…an absolute grub who never faced the scrutiny the deserved…the Collingwood PR machine at it again…it’s incredible…the more this continues, the less I like the sport of Australian Rules Football…I can’t believe I’ve finally reached that point

I've heard the same thing. Petracca to Collingwood in a straight swap for both Daicos brothers plus Quaynor thrown in as steak knives.

Beating North proves nothing to me unless it comes with clear evidence of improved structure. I'll consider joining the bandwagon again if we win against Brisbane and then the following week. The last 4 games have doused my interest well and truly not so much by the fact we lost (other than St Kilda) but the way we played. Watching Casey as well has re-enforced my concerns.

North at $5.50 is very good value considering their performance on the weekend. I might just do a small bet to cheer me up in case we slip further into the abyss.

In addition to being the oldest professional football club... We codified the laws of the game, we were a foundation vfa and vfl club, we lost players in both world wars, we originated the father son rule, we were first to recruit irish players and we established the womens game and were a foundation aflw club. Also, we are the only team to have won a mens afl premiership and women's premiership with all 18 team competing.

Perhaps we weren't sent one.

So many embarrassing supporters who clearly were happiest in the Neeld era. We won a flag FFS but even that wasn't enough as it was in Perth.

I wonder if they will find Harold Holt before they identify the issue with Spargo’s Achilles.

Thanks for the detail that you had emailed them with a critical message and they phoned you back (amazing in itself). No, I wouldn't accuse you of making it up. Just possibly interpreting what was said to you in a gloomy way (which is sadly doubtless often the right position given our history since 1964). But I still wonder exactly what the person said on the phone. You said that person didn't deny fault (or somesuch word). I can imagine that person was instructed to not argue with any members, but instead make the sort of bland remarks our govt and corporate leaders make without committing to anything and thus allowing you to read what you liked into it. That's why I asked for a verbatim account of what they said so I could get info on whether the club thought the docs should all be sacked or otherwise. As I've said several times, the fact that the initial scans at the hospital didn't reveal a big problem, just shows how difficult it was for our docs, and tends to make me believe they were not particularly negligent. Note I said 'tends' - not proof.

Our DNA is contest and defence We have lost contest by a wide margin this year. Some here talk about post-clearance possession and slingshot off the backline but the reality is we have been poor in the midfield all year. Winning clearance and/or helping our defence springboard forward. Oliver is down, Viney appears to be playing injured, Petracca has been needed forward to prop up the Petty experiment. Pickett shows some excitement when he goes in there but doesn't impact enough. Rivers hasn't been allowed in there. Salem's form has been very patchy. One big failure it would seem is how poorly the 'second tier' or 'up and coming' midfield has been playing. Sparrow is a big one. I am a fan but his output has been terrible. We seem to be using him in shut down roles but maybe we are robbing ourselves. Laurie hasn't come on as we would have expected. And then there is Bowey who has been inured for a large part of the year, Spargo who hasn't played since rd 1, Howes who is being asked to do a lot, McVee who has lost a lot of his drive... I got to thinking which players have improved this year. TMac, JvR, ANB, Maybe Max Those that have gone backwards Petty, Viney, May, Langdon, McVee, Fritsch, Oliver, Salem, Chandler, Sparrow, Spargo, Hunter This is our problem in a nutshell The same or thereabouts Turner, Rivers, Lever, Bowey, Pickett, Petracca Not one of young players (that have played at least 1 season) have improved this year. That bodes poorly for the future

No, I'm not. I was just saying that it does not logically follow that just because a parent (allegedly) believes something, that that something is true. Doesn't require an advanced degree in logic to see that. Care to share with us exactly word for word what the club said and the position of who it was. Not that I don't trust you OD, but you do have a reputation for finding the downside in almost anything. (Also 'not denied', could just mean "I'm not bothered/instructed to not argue with people who contact the club".) Look, for all I know, it was not handled well. But the evidence that the hospital with all its equipment got it wrong initially, tends to indicate to me that the MFC quacks were not particularly negligent.

I don't think we should play Lever there are still 9 games to go after Saturday. We need to win as many of those as possible. If we cannot beat a side with one win without Lever then the bottom really has fallen out of our team.

The Situation is getting worse. The AFL need to strip back a lot of grey rules. reduce the interchange rotation to 30-40 a game i cannot stand incorrect disposal being called play on These suits have bastardised the game while being paid $millions Enough…

The Umpires are already scrutinised after every game by their own department, and we have the current mess. The amount of Cameras on the games will increase each year, the quality of those cameras will also improve. the only way to make umpiring better at the Top Level is to pay the Umpires a high wage and make them accountable to the public after each game, otherwise the current situation will just keep frustrating everybody. What happened to The Croms last Season should have been the line in the sand moment. They were denied a Finals Berth

The self-awareness levels are staggering in this one.

All those who think the club is beyond reproach on this issue should read the latest. His family is far from happy with how this was handled. I complained to the club. Today they contacted me and simply said how this was handled will not happen again. There was no effort to try and justify what happened. I am happy that they did not try to justify the decisions that were taken.

Honestly, in true MFC style that's the game we'll probably win (after losing to North) 🤣

That is a valid point, it can happen to any club. Sadly, It happened to us THREE times in the last year. They were all against Carlton. Each was influenced decided by a dubious 'touched' goal deemed a point or not adjudicated. 2023 H&A - Lost by 4 pts. Petracca goal claimed to be touched, goal umpire fell for it, ARC 'inconclusive'. Llater the Carlton players laughed about 'maybe' by a fingernail. Umpire's call stood. iirc, this cost us 2nd spot on the ladder. Oh, how different 2023 would have been. 2023 Semifinal - Lost by 2 pts. ANB's goal callled a goal by umpire then overturned as deemed to be touched off the boot by a late ARC review. Inconclusive vision but this time the umpires's call was overruled. This cost us a Prelim berth. No telling how far we could have gone. 2024 H&A - Lost by 1 pt. May's clear touch of a Curnow goal was not completed. ARC review was slow and field umpire bounced the ball to restart play without a review decision. Even Curnow knew it was touched. There may be other dees matches that were decided on a dubious call but those THREE that stand out the most for me as they had a big impact on our finals chances in 2023 and may do in 2024. It may be selective memory on my part but we seem to regularly get a raw deal at critical points of games/season.

Related to the article and not the author: At one of the games earlier this year before the bad losses, I was so frustrated at what I was seeing I resorted to shouting out from the stand "Max can't do it all on his own". That's how it felt for a lot of the game. He'd pop up in Defence and then moments later he was marking up the field. That level of effort was nowhere near uniform and in contrast to the rest of the team Max's powerful performance looked like Demonic possession . It was really frustrating for us fans to watch him battling so bravely and it wasn't the only game he'd have felt like that. I'm not sure if being a Demon fan is a toxic relationship, but it is really frustrating. We're all seeking perfection in our football club, so that's only destined to drive us mad. This preseason and Season so far with Gus, Smith, Clarry, injuries, losses, confused game plan and players have been far from perfect. It's really important in the short term that we arrest that slide in performance before it becomes really damaging. There are longer term frustrations too that are probably more corrosive to culture. I think the biggest of these is the enduring failure to secure a proper home base within a reasonable distance from the MCG. I say this as someone who loves the club and wishes for the best. If I was a player choosing between clubs I wouldn't be attracted by the prospect of commuting daily to a far flung outer suburb like Casey with occasional days at AAMI and a lovely oval with no facilities beside a busy highway at Gosch's. I think getting the home base sorted is key to the club's long term identity and pride.

Amateur Football League Absolute Farce League What a joke, policy on the run and once again we get shafted by it. I'm assuming the clubs response will be crickets but I'll see what comes out. Won't hold my breath though.

Really good point. I find her description more confusing than the decision. https://www.afl.com.au/news/1153771/afl-concedes-umpire-error-but-ticks-off-50m-penalty-call "You can see on the vision, Bailey Scott takes the mark, the umpire blows his whistle and one of two calls could be made. It could be play on immediately, or it could be stand, which would indicate the mark had been paid." This part is odd as surely the decision to pay the mark is on the whistle. Not the call of stand... So no, the decision was clear & there are many instances where 50 is paid when players run directly over the mark before stand is called. Pity for North but the result stands. As for the AFL, they seem to have compounded the mistake here.

A season outside the 8 does not define culture, but the season itself does, the way we have played this year is like the seasons of old when we have fallen the year after being in contention. The job isn’t ever done, it’s a work in progress and we have to apply ourselves year in year out, not just the occasional good season here and there. We look like becoming another Footscray, good but not good enough, a 4th to 10th side.

The start of any solution is admitting there is a problem and discussing the errors when they occur, not merely shutting down discussion because we can't be critical of umpires and saying "it won't change anyway, stop whingeing"

Gee I wonder why? Perhaps that filters down to them from above, ie different clubs held to different standards by the AFL, different clubs given priority in things like fixturing, payments outside the cap, academy picks etc, different clubs/players held to different standards at the tribunal etc The game is run in an extremely amateur manner and by that I don't mean the lack of money I mean it's still run like a suburban comp with vested interests playing favourites.

A draft stacked with midfield talent is perfect because that has to be our number 1 priority.

bluster and blarney achieves nothing every club is is the same boat with this ruling; you get what you get and you don't get upset! well, actually, you do get upset, but you seethe inwardly - or on message boards like demonland! - because making public statements criticising head office achieves sweet fanny adams and is more likely to get your club put in the naughty corner, aka sundays at 4.40pm vs interstate sides

as if they have any say on this the afl is making it up as they go along to try and minimise future litigation as usual the clubs wouldn't be consulted what do people actually expect roffey or pert to do? throw the toys out of the cot screaming 'it's not fair?!??' until they've tired themselves out?

Giants in the PF and Lions in the GF were hard done by as well. Guess who their opponent was? Maybe its the influence of the ferral pies crowd, but it's definitely a pattern

Watched the game. The commentators were onto that non 50 as soon as it happened. 4 umpires and they all missed or ignored it. The Daicos non decision on incorrect disposal another. And a filth goal came from what looked like a scoop from the ground (I stand to be corrected on that but looked like a throw). All clubs are equal, but some are more equal than others. I know that paraphrase originally applied to pigs, but you could classify filth supporters as pigs except the porcine variety are more intelligent.

He’s one of our Sorrento Duncraig boys, he’s a similar to what we have in terms of big bodied mid who isn’t quick. He can play forward and rotate through but obviously behind the Freo mids. Pace is his weakness and I’m not sure he’s that quick running explosive mid we need

Going round in circles is not discussion: some people define it as being pig headed.

It's not rapidly dimishing, it expands and contracts to the bewilderment of players and fans alike. But the stand rule is a mess. Players are told to stand in spots that are not near where the mark is. Players don't know when they can move 5m away and what they can do when they get there etc etc. I can't see what was wrong with the old rule. So it maybe slowed down play because the player with the ball had less of an advantage. I'd rather that than the mess we have now.

Sounds like a good lawyer could take this apart, line by line…

this bit: In the year immediately following the year of the retirement (Year 1) will be interesting to understand whether or not that's 2024 for gus, or 2025 for gus - the wording is so opaque that it's completely unclear from my reading of it, if we were able to put all of gus' salary for the length of his contract, the MOST we could absorb in one year is 90% so, for instance, if the remaining four years of deal was worth $2.8m (an average of $700k per annum) the most we could absorb in the arbitrary year 1 (2024? 2025?) would be $2.52m now, of course, that's completely unrealistic in short, yr incentivised to absorb as much as possible of it in year 1 post the forced retirement but...to be honest, you'd need a financial lawyer to poke the holes in this - it's clear as mud for joe public all i can say is STUFF THE AFL imo that the ENTIRE contract isn't voided from salary cap considerations is a complete farce they've retired him ffs - perhaps he wanted to play on, risk or no risk? this bit is so mealy-mouthed and filled with legalise: The Guidelines do not provide a guarantee of TPP relief being provided with regards to any specific concussion-related retirement event. The provision of TPP relief is at the complete discretion of the Concussion TPP Committee with consideration given to the terms of the relevant contract and the circumstances of each eligible retirement, and subject to the maximum thresholds approved. is as confusing as all get out so...the 90% etc. is dependent on the concussion tpp committee? and who sits on that? and when do they make judgement? clear as MUD

Whether or not we are playing finals, we don’t need players suspended for round 1 (or round zero; maybe the AFL will, in their infinite wisdom, call it round munis 1. 🙄). Remember Kozzie missed round 0 this year, and we surely and sorely missed him. Do we know whether he did or didn’t have his spleen removed. See below. “I had to go straight into surgery at 2am; open surgery. I wasn’t under anaesthetic because my blood levels were so low.” This sounds very strange and there are surely some missing pieces. I have never seen (or done) open abdominal surgery without anaesthesia even in dire emergencies. If he actually had “open surgery” on his abdomen he will be pushing to get ready for the start of 2025. Club doctors need to make clinical decisions, which involves the history of and from the patient, and hands on touch, feel, listen. There is always patient input in this. And diagnoses are always subject to periodical review. Some may be adept at “bedside ultrasound” but this is very operator dependent and in this case wouldn’t have been of much help - note that the first CT some 4 hours post injury failed to show his splenic injury. As far as radiological assessment of scans is concerned, this can be achieved almost instantaneously remotely. This happens almost everywhere all the time : reports come from the UK (or USA or other English speaking first world health system countries) overnight when our radiologists are sound asleep, and vice versa. But the technology of achieving a quality scan depends on good well maintained equipment, and a competent radiographer who would need to be immediately available on site. Unlikely to be achievable at every AFL ground for every game. It is not as if there is a glut of radiographers who would only rarely be used for a CT scan. Especially as they are too tight assed to spend a few hundred bucks on goal line technology.

Irrespective of the errors what got my attention today was the explanation Laura Kane gave. Has she even looked at the footage or is she reading a pre written excuse from McBurney? She states that Scott took the mark paused moved forward and should have been called play on. The replay is everywhere and it shows Scott take a mark and take 4-5 steps back and not go off his line. He backtracked as the 2 Collingwood players encroached. It is a 50 metre penalty every day of the year. Scott looks at the umpire as do the 2 offending players all expecting a penalty. Only then does Scott play on. Under her narrative they could have tackled him and pinged him for holding the ball. It is the most blatant lie and mis interpretation this year. Matt Stevic the most experienced and capped umpire froze. He got it wrong and every journo knows it. On Friday night Windhagar got a 50 metre penalty for an infraction not as obvious as yesterday All credibility gone. The new umpires boss has seen a litany of mistakes on his watch and I cannot see it getting better As for goal review just as May was robbed against Carlton so too were North when the Crisp shot at goal was clearly touched. And god help me I actually agree with Kane Cornes and calling out the free ride Daicos gets. I truly do not like the way the game has evolved this season

But the club doctors are sports doctors and not radiologists. They rely on the radiologists doing the scans to report on what they find, and so unless the AFL is able to also have a panel full of specialists at every game waiting by the machines there isn't much point. Another thing I'd like to add is that the majority of diagnosis are made based on how the patient is feeling supported by MRI's, ultrasounds etc to try and identify what is happening inside the body. In many cases the problems do not show up on the scans and are easily overlooked unless the person knows what they are looking for. As an example Mason Cox had a lacerated spleen which the radiologist did not pick up on during scans the day after his injury. They only picked up on it 4 days later when he presented to his doctor with symptoms consistent with a lacerated spleen and internal bleeding.

The AFL can afford it, and club doctors should have better information when deciding if players can go back onto the field. It’s unfair on club doctors to poke and prod to make a decision. Let’s look at it another way. Trac got a knee in the ribs and it was just a bruise. Do you seriously think he can get to the Epworth, get a scan, and be back on the ground in the second qtr. Let’s get real!! Trac mentioned he had his scan at 8-9pm that night.

How is it not 100% out of the cap? Seriously. What logic is there that we can’t replace a medically retired player entirely?

He had a little help with the west coast premierships.

This is the same Mick Malthouse that recommended Neeld to Lyon when we were looking for a coach. The same Mick Mathouse that destroyed Carltons list and culture when he coached there. I just dont think he's credible enough to take seriously these days.

Whateley makes me physically ill. He's a creepy ,spineless little blowfly and I can't really watch or listen to him. Don't know why. He just creeps me out. I know it's irrational but thats the truth.

Loved Sid Draper's game on Sunday. He's the guy in that top 10 that has the traits our midfield is sorely lacking. Pace, polish and keeps on running.