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Will be very disappointing if Caleb Windsor requests a trade to Lysterfield.

Jackson leaving also meant we got to experience the death ride. That was great fun. This should be factored into the overall value of the trade imo.

There’s a lot more to this than the ’54 first rounders have gone home’ headline. It’s 19% of first round draftees, which sounds alarming but I ran some of the numbers myself. The data is extremely heavily skewed by a few things. Firstly Gold Coast/GWS. 56% of all the first rounders (30 in total) who went home had been drafted to either GWS or Gold Coast, with only 24 of ‘go home’ players leaving other clubs. Victorian teams have the best retention of all clubs, with each club on average only having lost 0.9 first round players across that 12 year span. This equates to an 8% chance (0.08 player per year) of any particular Victorian club losing a draftee in any individual draft year (compared with Gold Coast/GWS who lost an average of 1.25 first round picks per year to their native state). Those players who ‘went home’ from Victoria were: Reece Conca (106 of his 150 games at Richmond), Jamie Cripps (16/228 at St Kilda), Troy Menzel (40/44 at Carlton), Jimmy Toumpas (who was basically delisted, 27/37 at Melbourne), Blake Acres (who didn’t want to be traded and returned to Victoria, 75/145 at St Kilda), Ryan Burton (who didn’t want to be traded, 47/139 at Hawthorn), Sam Petrevski-Seton (94/121 at Carlton), Luke Jackson (52/75 at Melbourne) and Jason Horne-Francis (17/41 at North). If you look at that list there are really only a couple of ‘we were desperate to keep them players’, being Cripps, Jackson and Horne Francis …. Which equates to one good Victorian first rounder going home every 4 years. Secondly, the data is heavily skewed by the first 3 years of the sample (2010-2012), where a total of 29 players went home, whilst only 25 went home in the next 9 years. The return home rate reduced by 70% after 2012 (0.17 players/club/year) compared with that from 2010-12 (0.54 p/c/y). These were due to the GWS/GC start up priority draft selections where they had great difficulty retaining those players, with GC and GWS losing an average of 8 first rounders each to ‘go home’ across those 3 years. Post 2012, a Victorian club loses 0.06 ‘go home’ first rounders per year …. Only 5 in total, and this includes those that were traded reluctantly (2 of the 5) and one that was given away cheaply. Basically, the go home factor for Victorian clubs is mostly non-existent. It’s slightly higher for WA and SA clubs, Sydney and Brisbane (0.13 players lost/year) and much higher for GC and GWS (0.88 players lost/year) but it is far lower than it was during the formative years in 2010-2012. In short, despite Jackson leaving, I wouldn’t worry much about it. I’ve got my working below for anyone interested.

Some comments from Rookie me show why we picked Koltyn: A brilliant creator and finisher, many of Tholstrup’s disposals create opportunities for inside 50 targets, always looking to take the game on with his penetrative kicking. His bullish nature and strong contested work, along with his aggressive kicking decisions lead him to be a handy pinch hitter in the midfield as well.

I'm interviewing the Melbourne Football Club Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor early next week on the Demonland Podcast. I'll be asking him about moving up the draft order, our new recruits (both Draftees and Trades), Daniel Curtin, our recent recruits who have yet to play a senior game, who he thinks will be the next Judd McVee and more. If you have any further questions let me know below and I'll see if I can squeeze them in. I will release the podcast either Monday or Tuesday. We'll be aiming to do a 2023 Season Review (Men and Women) as well as give our thoughts on the Trade & Draft period in the coming weeks. Look out for a thread soon where we will open it up for questions from Demonlanders.

Yeah it is just you. Joel Smith is awaiting instruction from the AFL for his hearing. He is in contact with Gary Pert, Alan Richardson and Reece Conca. He has also spoken to Goody.

I hope so, last time Demonland thought he was fat we won a premiership

I wish I was that flabby

There's a running theme in the footy media that we drafted based on needs not best talent. That's despite the fact GWS were set to take Windsor at the very next pick, and when we got him first they actually traded down as they didn't rate the other options after him. That says he was rated highly by multiple clubs that based on talent, not our specific needs. But no worries footy media, keep spouting the factually incorrect statements about drafting for needs not best talent. Mindless lying scum.

2028, also the year Andrew Brayshaw claims his second premiership with the Demons (and Angus his fourth) after moving in a free agency deal because Fremantle didn't have any cap space left after burning it all on Jackson.

So we spun Jackson and our own first and second round picks into Jefferson, Windsor and Tholstrup. Time will tell whether Jackson, ND14 and ND35 was worth those three but from where we were - to get a top 7 pick and an obvious Taylor target in KT we can uncoil at least. Will bump the thread in 2028.

How many of those players left GWS or Gold coast

Had a beer last night at Bad Shepherd with the same fella. We chatted the draft amongst other things and I asked him if he was surprised that we got Brown via the Rookie Draft. He reckons Brown dropped later in the year due to some disposal issues and limited scope for improvement. Under pressure missed some targets by foot and his contested work is scrappy, not clean and momentum building. Also wondered about his ability to get bigger. In saying that, he did say his club didn’t put a lot of effort into Brown as they try to avoid non WA players at the later stages of the draft. On a positive note, he also said if Goody told Brown to run through a brick wall he would and is very coachable. He thought we had a pretty good draft as Windsor and Tholstrup are good enough to play round 1 next year.

Thank you all and others for your for support, it is much appreciated. In the Chart I've added the Dees 2024 draft picks and made the corrections suggested. I welcome further corrections or new player contract info and I'll make the changes in March as after today, I am giving myself a holiday from D'land for the off-season.

We were blind to him

If he has the guts and determination of his old man then I will be very happy and will be a great addition to the Dees.

Koltyn will join Premiership defender and 2 time All Australian Steven May as Demonland's Sponsored Players for the 2024 season.

And while we're at it ...

as usual it's gameplan. Can't see trading making an enormous difference except that it's always good to refresh and improve. We've gone for quick players as against the bigger bodied teams that now remain. We need to work on a greater degree of spread. The corridor use was fantastic against the lesser teams but it came horribly unstuck against the bigger bodied teams who simply crowded the ball carrier and prevented the spread. Better positioning by the forwards is a given. I enjoyed the team style of open play and hope we persist. Not sure where the comp as a whole is going. Will probably find out over the next two to three seasons but I'm not sure that 2023 was a great year for the competition. It needs to find its own space and calendar position somehow. Personally I don't like Princes Park. It's an old fashioned concrete shell devoid of character but I understand that Casey has significant drawbacks. Wherever it be the team and the comp needs to establish a relatively permanent base in the near future

At round 3, I would've said Jayden Hunt was more of a loss than LJ. That didn't age well.

Jackson was for 1st rd 2022 and 1st and 2nd round 2023 Jackson = Jefferson and Windsor note the 2nd rd pick 27 was flipped as part of Dees get 11, Crows get 14,27,35 Throlstrup = (after picks ontraded to other clubs the 14,27,35 was) Darcy Wilson, Billy Wilson and Luke Lloyd time will tell

He has joined as an A rookie; pick 22 in the rookie draft. The A rookie status is assumed in the list of selections. delisted-hawk-roo-earn-second-chances-dees-add-father-son We are allowed 2 B rookies and those positions are filled. We no longer have any list spots. We can gain one if a player has a long term injury and is out for the whole season.

This. It’s pervasive and I think we are done with it. I would suggest the alternatives are the Spargo and ANB types that can be effective in a specific role but are not forwards, have little forward craft or nous, and are just not dangerous in advanced positions. Resting mids are one thing but @drdrakeis alluding to a bigger issue that has reared it head the last two years where we have relied on too few to take advantage of too many I50s and we just didn’t have the cattle to connect and convert those opportunities. We can now only have ANB in the forward line who isn’t a natural forward and that is a far healthier place to be.

He was not available. However Daniel Curtin was.

I suspect Windsor will actually start forward and of course rotating on a wing and will give us some much needed added pace across half forward, especially when Pickett rotates up the ground. Not sure Tholstrup has Bailey's pace, he's a bit of a different style of forward/mid. One of Tholstrup's advantages is he can probably fill a lot of roles as a forward. He can play closer to goal as a goal kicker, he can chop our talls and compete in the air a bit, he can hit up higher as a lead up mark linking player. As well as develop in to a midfielder in time. I see him a little like the Rivers of the forward line with the way Riv has been used as the 7th defender who can cover various jobs. He'll give good defensive effort but not sure he has the pace to really be similar to Bailey or ANB for that matter. Sparrow's skills let him down at times across half forward but he's often effective there purely by having the athleticism and size to muck up contests that others who get stuck at half forward are either too slow or too small to be a nuisance. Tholstrup's size, burst and aggression couple with skills to back it up make him a nice match up for certain bigger half backs who have given us trouble in one way or another. No pressure kid but there's a certain Collingwood half back that we need to match with an aggressive big body

Melbourne has gained access to speedy winger Jemma Rigoni under the father-daughter rule. Her father Guy played 107 games between 1998-2005. AFLW clubs will now need to hold a pick in the round where the player is bid on in order to match and win access to the player. https://www.afl.com.au/aflw/news/1066623/talented-mid-heading-to-geelong-under-father-daughter-rules

https://omny.fm/shows/wide-world-of-sports-6pr/koltyn-tholstrup-and-his-move-to-melbourne This is a great interview with Koltyn Tholstrup on 6PR in WA. Koltyn spoke very well and wants to play Round 1 2024. Arriving in Melbourne on Saturday and at training on Monday.

My question would be about the Demons habit of following up on players they studied from previous drafts, and if there are any players he particularly wishes we'd been able to recruit this year and might monitor in coming years? Also, there's a free-agency bounty coming through in the next few years, ranging from two big rucks in 2024 (English, Darcy) through to a swarm of mids (Brayshaw, Rayner, McGrath, LDU, Worpel), and even Oscar Allen. How is our salary cap position looking - do we have the realistic option of making a play for some of those top-level and still young restricted free agents? Also... ruck depth...

The 2023 Table is updated for: Games played at start of 2024 season New draftees Caleb Windsor, a three year contract in line with new CBA Koltyn Tholstrup a three year contract in line with the CBA Kynan Brown as an A Rookie on a one year contract Inclusions to be confirmed by the club: Marty Hore as an A rookie (Supplementary List), assume a one year contract Dan Turner on a two year contract Andy Moniz-Wakefield rookie contract to be renewed Therefore, there are no more list spots. We have kept the 36/6/2 mix of senior/A rookie/ B rookie mix. Potential milestones in the H & A season: 50 games Bowey Chandler 100 games Rivers Picket Spargo 200 games Hunter Petracca Tomlinson Viney Key Senior Player signings for 2024 (imv): Sparrow and Bowey are the major ones to sign up. Langdon and Hunter will be re-signed. Also Adams will likely get another contract as it is rare for recent draftees to not have at least one extension. But a number of others may be encouraged to look elsewhere (eg Laurie, Schache, Smith and maybe Hunter) or retire (eg Brown, McDonald). Other notes I reckon Tholstrup will rapidly become a ‘cult hero’ especially among the young. He has the swagger and the charisma to draw the crowds!!! Looks like a fun loving kid. For any contract changes from the club or posters during the off season I will update them all together in March. The 2023 Contracts thread can be found here:

Besides Kalani and his brothers and Noah Yze, are there any more F/S possibles in the next few years and how are they all tracking?

Until you provide more detail from a source or yourself or more posters back your comments up I will continue to use Hertz and gain my 10/20% discount from them and their high standards of service.

He's saying of those who moved, only a handful moved against the wishes of the club. Including Jackson and Lever, who both left despite their original club throwing everything at them to stay.

With great respect your comparison of Kynan to the Lizard of the Swans really ends with being a left foot kick. Blakey looks like a beautiful gliding Rolls Royce vehicle across the turf and Kynan a small medium Cortina, however no less effective in his highlights. The weapon Kynan appears to have is his tenacity tackling and speed to break away and to dispose purposely. Could well be a great addition to our midfield and like the fact that he is a leftie. All the best Kynan just be yourself and we know you will get the very best out of yourself.

The ruckman may be extinct in 2028 so we'll win by default

Too bad the logo isn't on the front. Our mids might kick to a leading target if it were so obvious.

Does anyone actually care? As I have been saying for YEARS desolve this Basket Case of a competition and replace it with AFL reserves! George who ? Who cares? BRING BACK AN ALIGNED AFL RESERVES with no Frankston, Southport or anyone else non aligned to an AFL team!

I didn’t recognise Schache without the tracksuit top on.

His spot on the list could be considered very marginal, purely from the likelihood he'll spend much of it injured, but I'm stoked the club as kept him on. Seems like a great character and I think this move is a great way for the club to repay the faith to Jake. I don't think it should be forgotten, that Melksham was one of the first developed players of quality that sought out a trade to the MFC, at a time we were pretty much rubbish on the field. In the years that followed, we picked up Hibbo, Lever, Langdon, Tomlinson & May, but perhaps asides from Bernie Vince, Melky was one of the first. If he can get back to his 2023 form, that would be a bonus, but I think this shows how far the club has come from the dark era, when guys like James McDonald, Robbo and others were pushed out the door not on their terms. Similar for guys like T Mac and BBB, how we treat these guys will have a big bearing on how we continue to move forward as a club.

Agree Storm. Fantastic interview. Seems incredibly grounded and mature, and focused on the job at hand.

So much better than the interview on SEN with those peanuts Gossage and Cummings who were already trying to plant a biased “go home” seed. The kid sounds switched on and very well spoken for his age.

Apparently 'Dirk' is the go. Old mate called him that in kindy and it's followed him to every club since, so we'd better keep it going.

his highlights >>> better than most others looks a goer

Beats my thimble

What’s his thoughts on the academy bidding process? is it ‘broken’? How would he see it being used in a fair way to all? (Ref Mac Andrew, J-UH, 4 academy picks to GCS).

The 2022 draft class have yet to debut. What are the expectations on them coming into their second season next year ? Reminder its Jefferson, Adams. Verrall, Sestan

There was some confusion between DL folk on the round trip to Esperance last week. Can Jason please confirm the exact KMs covered?

Really good set of talking points already, if you get good answers to those questions it will be a great interview. Just some ideas off the top of my head: - Windsor: can he play on ball, half back/forward, how’s his contested footy, how do they track his game running/tank - Tholstrup: how do they compare WAFL seniors to the kids in juniors? Was he heavily on the radar with his Colts form in 2022. - Progress of the young talls - Ruck depth - the midfield succession plan with Rivers, Pickett, Bowey, confidence they can evolve their games - Shrinking draft classes and whether that’s related to the list sizes and if they should be expanded back to pre covid levels - lack of long term injuries costing them the ability to make mid season picks - The impact of ever increasing running demands and how that shrinks the draft pool

Question: what's your obsession with country boys from WA all about?

Point being? His coaches, full time professionals working at the elite level, judged him to be our 6th best player. He finished 9th in the bluey in 2022 and 6th this season. Back to back top 10s in the b&f of an AFL club that finished top 4 is an objective measure of excellence. It's plain silly to think he finished 6th only because of his pressure acts, 1%ers, effort and gut running. I mean c'mon, it's elite level sport, not the local footy club handing out votes to the bloke who is a real trier and always does the barbie. And without being facetious, the assessment of an AFL coaching staff holds more water than the vibe based assessment of random footy forum posters. Mad if I think he shows composure with footy in hand? Did you miss the part when I said he was our best kick inside 50 in terms of kick to score ratio? Sure that probably says something about his teammates, but nonetheless hard to top that stat without showing composure with ball in hand.

Drove past Trevor Barker Oval 10 Minutes ago in medium level traffic and saw Angus, Spargo, Salem, Disco and possibly Howes doing a skills session. Salem shirtless obviously happy with the rig. It was only a brief glimpse but excited people they were training the house down.