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Without realising it, you've just demonstrated how partisan you are on this topic. It implies you haven't read these books, or if you have you didn't understand. Pascoe's work is not an academic text to be debunked. It references historic sources that have been omitted from the general conversion deliberately as part of the terra nullis claim. He questions much of the narrative that white Australia teaches itself about our First Nations people (that they were completely nomadic, never built any structures, didn't do any agricultural work). Sutton and Walshe don't "debunk" anything. They argue that First Nations people should be called "hunter gathers plus" rather than Pascoe's suggestion that they deployed a type of farming/agriculture. That seems petty semantics when Pascoe's main thesis was that the modern western academic criteria for farming was Eurocentric, and therefore was too tight and restrictive to consider other cultures' approach to farming. Just as Sutton and Walshe critiqued Pasoce, others have since critiqued Sutton and Walshe for omitting evidence, for relying too heavily on colonial census data (probably skewed) and for sticking to outdated academic concepts. Have they been debunked? People can have conversations and discussions without being offensive to each other. But if you think the work was "debunked" and can therefore be dismissed, this might be why you keep finding that people take offence in discussion.

think of it another way, yw it's not an act of "segregation" but rather an act of integration, to include and recognise their achievements despite the obstacles placed in their way which otherwise excludes them from the majority. but it's benefit is not just for the individual rewarded but also a positive message of inclusion to the minority group he/she belongs to.

Let's face it Bobby. Few, if any Demonlanders, have spent the time watching TAC Cup or underage footy around the country to make a proper assessment on our draftees or other clubs draftees for that matter. It's literally a full time job and we can be thankful that we now have a recruiting team that work exceptionally hard to identify the talent we need and as we stand now have had many more hits than misses. To dismiss someone because they are seven centimetres short of their preferred height or because his father didn't have Robbie Flower's career is typical Demonland. Fortunately, Jason Taylor and team don't look at things the same way.

Hey @Cranky FrankyI haven't got around to reading this work yet. I've read both Bill Gammage's Greatest Estate on Earth and Dark Emu. They tend to align quite closely in that aboriginal people managed the landscape very sensitively to their advantage. I would call it farming. I guess part of it is your definition of what agriculture or farming is. I do know that Bruce's heritage and work has been systematically attacked by a small number of influential people. I know its taken a heavy personal toll on him (via friends I have who know him). I wouldn't say his work has been dunked and is full of errors. Not from what I've read and some of the first nations people I've listened to. This seems to be a balance view: https://theconversation.com/book-review-farmers-or-hunter-gatherers-the-dark-emu-debate-rigorously-critiques-bruce-pascoes-argument-161877 I do find it interesting they've written a book about another book, but it I'll probably look to read it to get a balanced view. Everyone has a different truth I guess. It's why I think truth is so important and some in this country aren't willing to embrace it yet. It's not about getting over it, its about facing up to it and owning it. Anyways, Go Dees!

Didn't want to start a new thread for this, but, just sayin....

IMO Bedford is there for Kozzy if he decides he needs to take a break after the week he's had. Wouldn't blame him. Love ya Koz.

You should delete your account or be banned. You are just trying to inflame with ignorance, posing as pseudo intellectualisms. It’s not profound or correct and shouldn’t be even given the respect of a argued response.

Ok, I'll quickly tell you where you're wrong now. The fact that the AFL is starting to provide these sorts of awards shows that they are finally making some effort to acknowledge the contributions and work ethic of the Aboriginal community. Since when was it so oppressive to celebrate a culture that has been at the receiving end of discrimination, oppression and abuse for so many decades?

I found it very moving, devastatingly so. One of my best friends from school days - who was a Truancy Officer in East Gippsland in the 80's - has unfortunately allowed his perceptions that the Lake Tyers Aboriginal camp was a place of bludgers and alcoholics and degenerates to poison his mind towards the Aboriginal people in general. He still comes pout with the line that 'these people' need to leave their primitive ancient ways behind and enter the twenty first century and he is always sprouting on about the money they are given by the government. He, in my mind, represents what was/is a common perception of Aboriginal Culture in Australia, I.E. it comes from a place of ignorance, rampant prejudice and total disrespect for something they are not familiar with. It's the basis for the notion of White Supremacy. For the record, I tried to point out to him that bludging, alcoholism, substance abuse and domestic violence occur in the society he believes Aborigines should aspire to.

Would have been nice to go to the match this weekend and show our Kozzie some love😔 just to let him know he is very much loved player at our club.

It's one thing to say you'll be disappointed with not being able to be at the GF this year if we make it. Disappointed is an understatement for the majority of us who, like you, have followed this club for decades on end, going to game after game, belting after belting, hoping one day for us to become relevant. But it's another thing to say this, which despite your later protestations, is the equivalent of saying you'd prefer us not make the GF this year so you can go next year. It should be blindingly obvious to any Melbourne supporter that this might be our one and only shot. The comparison isn't interstate GF in 2021 vs home GF in 2022, it's interstate GF in 2021 vs no GF ever in your lifetime.

I received an email overnight from Zero Hanger, an on line footy news site, that had links to a number of stories about possible AFL trades. I’m sure there will be more to come but here’s a summary - • after Adelaide delisted Tom Lynch, Kane Cornes was urging them to hold on to experienced players such as Daniel Talia to guide the youth through their current rebuild (the suggestion has been rejected and Talia has also been advised that he is no longer required at the Crows); • Lynch is a free agent and one scribe weighs up the clubs that might want him. Essendon, Geelong, Melbourne, Richmond and the Saints are mentioned as likely candidates; • still on the Crows, Matt Crouch is tipped to follow in the footsteps of his brother and depart West Lakes in taking up his free agency rights; • Fremantle’s Adam Cerra has narrowed down his playing future to just two teams with a decision to be made possibly within the next two weeks. He will either remain a Docker or request a trade to Carlton; • GWS Giants spearhead Jake Riccardi is being monitored by several Victorian clubs on his current contract situation, with Carlton named as one keen suitor for his services; • Jack Gunston is understood to be seen as a "gettable" trade option for rival clubs in the off-season; • Swans gun Jordan Dawson is reportedly on the cusp of signing a new deal with the Swans despite interest from a number of rival clubs; • Port Adelaide are showing preliminary interest in St Kilda free agent Jack Billings. AFL TRADE NEWS AND RUMOURS

That term is anachronistic at best. More broadly - and i say this knowing that many people don’t punctuate properly online - the word ‘Indigenous’ should always be spelled with a capital I when referring to people. It’s great to see @Colin B. Flaubert, @deanoxand others articulating the case so clearly, and not giving up on the discussion - this is what Eddie Betts is imploring all of us to do as allies. Repeating empty platitudes and saying the right thing isn’t enough; it takes persistence and patience and hard work to change hearts and minds.

His fairwell game was his 300th in a win, in front of a big crowd on the MCG. It was the perfect send off.

Anzac eve was his spiritual farewell game to me. I’d like him to be GF day sub if we get there and he’s not on one leg, but for me I’ll never forget the night we pantsed the tigers and Jones had the ball in the dying seconds. What a farewell that would make, and was, if that’s all there is.

It's not "segregation" to try and raise up a culture that has been oppressed for hundreds of years by having a few footy awards to celebrate their contribution and attempt to instill a bit of pride. But I wouldn't expect someone who posts things like this to understand that, so take your rubbish elsewhere.

Yep, debunked alright, by people like Bolt and Windshuttle? Yes, both fine examples of objective White Supremacy Dogma.

But geez, they’d look adorable running out in their little red and blue onesies.

The Spargo play on is the one that continues to amaze me after watching the vision again and again. The time difference between the whistle and the play on was minimal. It gave Spargo no time at all to assess the fact that he had been paid the mark and there seemed to be nothing to indicate that he was doing anything other than going back to take a shot at goal. Worse decision in a game where many poor calls were made. Was that Nicholls?

Just a sneaky wonder if Joel Smith might get the Hunt gig. If Tmac doesn’t get up, and Weid is played for Sunday’s drier day, who comes out? Melksham? Not likely. Sparrow?

I just want us to win the flag. If we do i'll enjoy it no matter where the game is played

I am so happy with this season. The end of the weekend, when we won another, was extraordinary, inspiring and set up my week up, beautifully. Our loses to lesser teams to keep us on our toes. The advantageous draw, the minimal injuries, not too many drama's, players appearing happy, stars performing, new players coming along well, coaches strategies and now guaranteed two final matches. Plus the AFLW MFC team leading the way, and nearly getting the cup. Much still has to go right and will need the footy gods on our side for us to climb up to be the premiers. Though I am satisfied with what the club has given me already. Happy with small mercies. Thanks MFC, however we end the year.

Looking at this Clio you would think he's a 100 game veteran. Ridiculously clean and his awareness is quite impressive as well.

With TMac out Weed will be busting to show what he can do. I hope he has a game that causes the selectors real nightmares. A bag of 10 would be nice.

Don't overlook Petty in front of goals ... time will come.

I don't think this is fair. For starters, the flights to/from Queensland aren't relevant - he didn't have the back problem until the GC match on the Sunday. We had to fly to Perth the next day so unless his back was so obviously bad that it couldn't possibly have recovered in a week, why wouldn't we take him over and do his rehab over there? Sounds very hindsight-y to be now arguing that, because it still isn't right, we never should have taken him over.

I can Never understand why MFC members don’t get it! There are no votes in providing money to the MFC. There are lots of votes in Geelong and surrounding areas at both state and federal level. MFC members are low in number and spread out over numerous electrets. We are very low on the totem pole. We will get scraps from another project when it suits the government.

I think he should have gone. It wasn't a fly in fly out scenario. They were there for a week and I think the squad as a whole would have got a lot more out of the trip than just the 4 points.

I studied Australian history right through to year 12 in the 1990's and there was almost no mention of Aboriginal history except as a side note to European colonialism. I sure as hell hope it has changed.

Aboriginal history is Australian history so i don't know why it wouldn't be thought in school

‘tis in New Zealand.

Zero nominations in 2020 to five nominations in 2021. That’s no mean feat! ❤️💙

Politicians are driven by the news cycle, focus groups and the next election because all they are worried about is getting re-elected. The citizenry is dominated by self-interest which is why politicians appeal to that. Self-interest is bred from being fearful, lazy and uneducated. It's a vicious cycle.

Free speech does not mean you can say what you want. With freedom comes responsibility and if your speech impacts on the freedoms of another or contributes to the victimisation, oppression etc of a cohort in society then it likely falls under hate speech which should not be allowed in a civil society. This is particularly true when you are discriminating against a group based on a characteristic they have no control over (eg gender, race, sexual orientation). There are extremely good historical reasons for this although @Cranky Franky might be uncomfortable receiving a history lesson. This does not mean you cannot criticise - I criticise religion all the time. But I don't criticise one particular religion above others, I think they are all outdated.

This thread is a very interesting read. Some very commendable contributions. I’m pretty sure everyone who has commented does not believe racism is acceptable in thought, word or deed. Regarding free speech. Anyone can say what they want but they are not free from the consequences of what they say. There are laws against liable, slander, hate etc. And the racial discrimination Act has specific provisions against speech which can be construed as “offensive”. Iirc Andrew Bolt fell foul of the provisions in this Act a few years back. Offensive speech, subject to some exceptions (racial discrimination act noted above) is not against the law. I mean, we offend each on this site every day. If our feelings are hurt that’s just too bad. Policing offence is completely unworkable because its nigh on impossible to define. Everyone will have a different idea of what it is. Regarding racism, continue to call it out when we see it and continue to support those who have been subjected to it. Anonymous posts on social media can’t be stopped I’m afraid but as others have said it’s the attitude of those that post that’s the real problem. We must continue to change hearts and minds In terms of path forward I think the aboriginal voice for parliament is the way to go. A historical wrong has been committed. We can’t change history but we can shape the future. I suggest we engage with the Uluru statement from the heart. I think it’s the best way to right the wrong. I will say there are certain aspects of anit-racist thought and BLM politics that I disagree with. For instance, the notion put forward in books such as “White Fragility” that white people are inherently racist is wrong. The idea that the police should be defunded, no matter how well intentioned, is just a bad idea. Condoning looters and saying they have a right to loot based on historical wrongs is not ok. There are aspects of how we tackle racism that can and should be debated. And let’s not forget the progress that has been made. Many old prejudices and attitudes are no longer acceptable and that’s a good thing. Let’s acknowledge that as we continue to work on the problems that endure.

Thanks Bobo. Eddie is right, It is up to us white fellas not to step over this stuff anymore. For me, it's starts with this nation confronting the truth of the hurt and harm inflicted on First nations people. Also, the truth of what an incredible culture exists here and to truly appreciate and embrace it. There's much for us to learn. I'd really recommend reading Bruce Pascoe's Dark Emu to anyone who wants to learn some more. There's a kids version available too. It's a great read. Truth, Treaty, Voice

Not yet but very keen to watch it before the weekend. I’m even more sad about not being able to get to this match following these events. I would’ve loved nothing more than to see Kozzie pick the ball up, zoom towards goal, and nail it with the players getting around him and the G erupting with cheers for him. We love you Kozzie!

He was our for one week just prior to that photo. Landed awkwardly. Now 4-5.

Good thing we are an 8 goal better side.

Agree however just a point - racism isnt just being called names. It's the systematic dismantling of your culture over centuries including massacres, genocide etc and the continuing policies in government and other organisations that reinforce the oppression.

i have a GFG but honestly don’t care if I’m not there if we win it. Will still be epic.

Teams may hold fears for us as supporters. I doubt it as the players, (sure, they'll do their research) - they've had months of evidence that they're a solid team, that opponents can throw whatever they want at them, and they typically respond well. Goodwin and the FD have been preparing the team for this scenario for years. Mature heads, some seasoned bodies, with a game plan that consistently stacks up (or has, less imperfections than other teams in the heat of finals), as well as players that know how to consistently execute their role. For Finals, its any team, any where. - and now we've demonstrated that essentially we can do, any team, anywhere - it's clearly our best chance for 60 years.

Reading the early views of his initial listing to the club. "Too small" was the call from a few posters. No way, he is going to be great for us over many many seasons. What composure. I remember early comments about Clarry saying that he was a surprise selection and was a poor choice. How wrong were they? Clarry is an out and out champion. Cant believe the things he can do with that piece of leather. Would be a very worthy Brownlow Medallist.

I've got a grand final guarantee so would be mortified to have the game played in Perth if we made it that far. We'd have to quarantine for 2 weeks and face extortionate flight prices. Who the hell can afford to take 2 weeks off work in this economic climate? If it definitely can't be played here I'd prefer Adelaide where fans of each side can at least drive there in nine hours and not be captive to price gouging airlines. If the ground holds 10k less than Optus they can add 16% to the cost of the tickets to make up the shortfall in revenue.

Jordan Gysberts' first two games were outstanding, but I get the feeling that Bowza might just have the edge over him in the long run.

I'm not interested in your childish trolling arguments, but you've said more than you realize by using this specific example.

The thing that I hear a lot from people that (wilfully or not) don’t understand the impact racism can have on people, is things like ‘it’s just words’ or ‘their overreacting’ or ‘it’s just a joke’. I still see comments on social media or hear people that I work with that say these excuses. At times I’ve been called a ‘white maggot’ by indigenous people. This has absolutely no effect on me as it is just a name and just words. There’s no history of my whiteness being genocided because of being white, no history of my parents/grandparents being taken away from their families because they were white, refused jobs because of being white, being viewed suspiciously, enslaved because of being white, my culture and language being purposefully erased by the state because for being white etc. etc. etc. There is no inter-generational trauma I face because of my skin colour. The same is very different for indigenous people. For indigenous people, being called a racial slur is hundreds of years of trauma, vilification, genocide and being assumed to be ‘sub human’ which is solely based on skin colour/culture. It’s not a joke, it’s not just words, indigenous people aren’t being too ‘sensitive’, these slurs are bringing up all of that history of being thought of as sub-human which is massively alienating and hurtful. It is something white guys like me will, never, ever understand or actually be made to feel like this. It’s alien to us as in racial terms, we have always been ‘normal’ (I.e. white) Australians. Once you realise the weight of this, there is no possible way you could dismiss this as being anything other than an incredibly hurtful, cruel and hateful thing to do. In my younger days I was too scared to speak up about casual racist remarks. But now I think it’s the very least that I can do to not accept racism in any form. It’s not funny, they aren’t jokes and they aren’t ‘just words’.