Leaderboard

My god this club is literally disintegrating. Viney can't stand Oliver to the point where he will leave the state. It's obvious from the body language Max & Clarry are both off to the Suns.

Viney was in SA and Max and Clarry in Vic... that explains why they weren't sitting together.

Looks like Oliver has bragging rights over Viney for the Brownlow and the AA squad. That should be enough to offset any disappointment at being just a few points behind him in the BnF. 9th is really an amazing effort by Oliver when we had Petracca and Gawn polling well. Hopefully, that quietens the folks on here that have questioned his 2020 performance. Good to see the umpires finally giving him the recognition he deserves.

Anyone notice that Clarry was wearing a carlton tie, and had a Simon Goodwin Voodoo doll on his table?

BYO

I have no issue with either Cameron or Geelong here, but the Free Agency thing clearly isn't doing as intended.

Which is exactly what the AFL wants. Gil referring to the upcoming GF as the dream match up. Teams like us, Norf and the Aints get further and further away from any chance of a flag every season and unless they (we) pull off a once in a half century miracle where the stars align, a la the Doggies in 2016, one can completely forget about winning anymore silverware under the present circus.

16 contests possessions (most of anyone on the ground) and 6 tackles would suggest he worked harder than most others and wasn't kick chasing. He was sent to play on Cripps and absolutely smashed him (25 disposals (16 contested) and a goal vs 16 disposals (8 contested)). The point is Polec was held to different standards at North for whatever reason and made into a scapegoat. He was dropped for a performance that was so good the umpires gave him votes in a losing side. I'd have him in red and blue as he'd improve us on-field and that's all that matters at the end of the day.

The voting clearly indicated who the best ruckman in the comp is and it ain’t Naitanui.

Neeld and Prendergast

The issue is they won’t have to pay overs. A lowly club would have to pay overs to land a star, where as a successful club like Geelong won’t have to - the player will take a pay cut to experience success. It’s happening more and more. These players make so much money that an extra few hundred thousand over a few years is negligible, they’ll just take less cash to experience success. Top clubs are propped up for lengthy periods. The struggling clubs struggle for lengthier periods. The AFLPA got what they wanted. The game is worse for it.

As a comparison, whilst Geelong has 8 players under 28 years old, in our final game against Essendon we had only 3 players older than 28 (Hibberd, Brown and Melksham), and none of them are critical parts of our future success. Geelong and us are a different points, where we are continuing to build and get better whilst Geelong are looking to succed in their Last Dance (or 2). We need to go out and get more mature players that can support our younger players and fill roles to help them be better because we already have most of the long term building blocks. Geelong is trying to use their current success to lure good players whilst they still can but, like Hawthorn, there will be a reckoning eventually.

This place is off chops.

My biggest take away from the Brownlow - Dane Swan is still a prize [censored]

Still can't understand the decision not to allow Fages to present the medal to Lachie.

We were the only club with two players in the top ten, proud of our boys?

He rated him so highly yet he still chose Josh Tynan at Pick 52. Prendergast is a [censored] id iot.

Eagles midfield was talked up as close to perfect with the inclusion of Kelly for 2020. Things don't always end up as the media predicts. On paper they will look formidable with Hawkins and Cameron but footy isn't played on paper. He'd want to play with greater urgency than he did this season for them to be formidable

Close the thread before someone pulls a muscle rolling their eyes too hard.

Geelong keeps fielding the oldest teams in AFL history. This is their time to go for broke because the edge is coming. It came for Hawthorn and it's coming for Geelong. Their average age is over 28 years old. They have Tom Stewart, who is 27, but then only 7 other players younger than 28, and the list of players isn't that impressive: Bews (26), Kolodjashnij (25), O'Connor (23), Henry (22), Parfitt (22), Simpson (22) and Miers (21). Their salary cap shouldn't be too bad now either, because the players who should be being paid the most are actually at the ends of the their careers and would be signing contracts far less than at their prime. Selwood (32), Hawkins (32), even Dangerfield (30) are their highest value players but shouldn't be on as big a salary now. The next year or two is their big shot at a flag with this group because they don't have the players to replace those stars, which is why they are going hard at free agency (Hawkins/Cameron, Selwood/Viney).

God I hate Geelong. Edit - also, what does this mean for their pursuit of Brad Crouch? Surely they can't get both?

Watching the games so far the main things that are common in the wins seem to be: High defensive pressure around the football. Winning contested footy. Clean hands. Being able to score against a well set defence. Effectively, the story being told about how to win a final is: Pressure the opposition so much that the game becomes a scrap, then win the scrap, move the ball forward (any way that you can) and then win those ugly contests inside 50 to score. Look at a Richmond game. Everything is at high intensity around the ball, which makes the game ugly. The get the ball forward and use their combination of big forwards and very clean small forwards against well set defences to win difficult contests to score, or pressure the opposition enough that a kick forwards goes to their excellent defence, allowing them to get the ball forward to start the whole process again. It's a very simple plan. Pressure the ball, get it forward, pressure the ball, get it forward etc. They set up their whole team to defend, but their best players are forward of the ball. The type of game that wins finals is the type of game we played in 2018. Strong, contested slogs where territory is king. Gawn, Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw ..... our best players are around the footy, so we should be using them to pin the opposition inside 50 and then using them again to kick goals from clearances and repeat entries. We've definitely got it in us to play finals winning football, probably more so than any team outside the top bracket. We need a few tweaks to allow us to keep that intensity for longer, but we're not as far off as many believe.

Don't know about Libba snr but the year that Teasdale won he was completely dominant across the ground. As I recall, he started the year at full forward (his position at Richmond) and went into the ruck early in the season when the Swans' ruckman was injured. From then on he was untouchable at a time when ruckmen (also known as followers) were the equivalent of our current on-ballers who not only contested ball ups and throw ins but were relied on the take big contested marks around the ground (see also Gary Dempsey, Graeme Moss and Peter Moore who also won a Brownlow). As I said above Teasdale was dominant and his win was not a surprise. That he got injured and could never replicate that form is another story. The Brownlow is reward for that one season only and no win should ever be diminished because the winner could not replicate that form again.

Apparently had a second shoulder reconstruction, first one didn't repair as they would have liked. Played the majority of the year in pain with it.

If our clubs each got $260 million every year, they'd have NFI what to do with it.

Apparently Simon Black was in the same room so he would also have been a very fitting presenter. One of the Lions all time greats.

Gutsy mark by Sam Walsh but MOTY??? Not sure about that, saw at least half a dozen better marks during the highlights for each round’s votes.

Oliver polled stronger than I expected, good on him it's a change from prior years where he goes under the radar. 2 in the top 10 and Max not far behind it's a great core of a midfield, hopefully we take full advantage next year. We should be looking to emulate the West Coast teams of the mid 00's with their powerful engine room.

Some observations 1- I’m still surprised Ed Langdon didn’t get a single vote !!! He was clearly BOG vs the Pies. 2- Oliver and Gawn perhaps over voted but they are right under the umps noses in the contest. If Max stays fit, I’d reckon he would be a chance one day to grab a Brownlow. 3- Trac is a star ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ 4- Steven May is a star. ⭐️⭐️⭐️???? 5- Trac was best dressed. Three piece suit. 6- Max needs help with his grooming AND another bloke who can’t tie a tie !!! Great footballer. Funny bloke. 7- Now Trac and Gus have a Brownlow bronze medal. 8- Dees got total 61 votes. 6th highest.

i can't fathom that bolded section...friday night was unbelievably tough and competitive wet weather football - a real slog between two class sides i think the issue is there's too many players who are crazy fit but ultimately aren't comparable to the 'poor' players of past eras because there's too many teams, thus too many ordinary players, in modern football we've gone from 20 players taking the field for 12 sides to 22 for 18 the players are so unbelievably fit and modern afl coaches adapted to the international trends of defence-first methodology - push back hard when you've lost possession, kick to the pockets when attacking forward to limit corridor turnover and force repeat stoppages, lock the ball in close and don't allow spread it's a very different game to that of 20 years ago but, hey, that's what happens in 20 years limiting interchange might help, but it won't change the crowding of the contest - the only thing that will stop that might be zones (no thankyou) or reducing it to 16-a-side on-field, which would go against the laws of the game i actually don't mind watching the modern game, and reduced game lengths and only playing each other once has made 2020 a year like no other and - for the most part - a welcome part of what has been the strangest year

Reflecting on what it takes to win finals: Rock solid defence - every player has a defensive role Contested ball and clearance wins A game changer player who does some extraordinary things. The ability to deliver inside 50 (against other rock solid defensive units) I think we are not too far away on 1.When we ran hard both ways we looked OK, but this year our half forwards and some midfielders were routinely average at this, which cost us games. I think we should be at the level on point 2, but we have to enhance clearance from contested ball wins. Too often we are at the contest, but get done in the clearance. We have Petracca and some cameos for point 3, and would need to have one or two more super-classy players to tick this off. Point 4 is still a serious concern. We could have Dunstall and Lockett inside 50 and still be rubbish given how poor we delivered the ball in there. It cost both Port and Brisbane the games last weekend, and we are no-where close. Its not about Only making finals, its about winning them.

A team that can play hard for 90-100% of the game. We can only play at full Power for short bursts. It is all above the shoulders. Our players were on holiday during The Finals, will they ever learn?

Nev is one of my favourite all time Melbourne players and a great human being but it's pretty clear Goody has decided to move past him, if we can get him to a club that does see him in it's side i think we have a responsibility to do it, rather than keeping a great servant playing in the 2's for one more year.

I don't disagree. At the end of 2018 we rightfully went out and got May to improve our defensive stocks. My post was more to show some appreciation and respect to a player who played his role for us and gave his time and effort to the club rather than "[censored] myself laughing" at his AFL career.

I did the list turnover numbers a few years ago. The average list turnover was around 10 or 11 and the minimum was around 8. That's what we should be expecting this year, especially if lists are reduced. 2019 Retirements and Delists https://www.draftguru.com.au/years/2019/retirements-delistings 141/18 = 7.8 Free Agents and Trades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_AFL_draft 10 + 26 = 36/18 = 2

I know there's more to it than just goals, but this year: Riewoldt - 1.6 goals per game Weideman - 1.5 goals per gam I reckon it's more that we need our Lynch. Weid is trying to do it all himself atm.

I echo the view of a lot of posts in this thread but will summarize my thoughts 1. Happy M Brown got in on the votes, was playing some good footy at the end of the year. Hope we can find a place for him. 2. Had money on Neale/Boak/Petracca trifecta - Winnings reduced 50% cos Jack Steele snuck it at the end to tie with Trac. So he is now my most hated player in the AFL. 3. I did not like Danger's suit. 4. Trac had polled 5 votes in 85 AFL games until 2020 where he polled 20 votes in 17 games. The finger has well and truly been pulled out and i look forward to seeing what he brings to the table next year. 5.Black should have given the award 6. Mark of the Year and Goal of the year were wrong - but who cares - Pickett will win them both next year. 7. Happy for Clay to poll well, hopefully all can be soothed going forward 8. Langdon unlucky not to poll, but he's only ever received 2x 1 votes in his career. (68 Games Freo, 17 games Melbourne). Maybe needs more end product for the umps to get attention. Had a look at some other wingers and Isaac Smith polled 25 votes in 210 games, Brad Hill 15 votes in 168. 9. The players in the Melbourne studio sitting there with the masks, raw end of the deal aha.

I heard Andrew Pridham interviewed over the weeked. His proposal is much more than the number of teams in the competition. He wants everything looked at - governance, structure, rules, revenue streams, etc. And I think he's right. The last comprehensive review of this type was done 27 years ago by David Crawford. A lot has changed since, and not just in the AFL. There are different technologies (streaming, social media); there's more competition for people's time (does game time need to be shortened? for example); the big cities have grown at the expense of rural areas (what impact has this had on grass roots football?), AFL now has significant competition from other codes (such as NRL and soccer in Melbourne) which didn't exist 27 years ago, the game style has changed so much in the last 27 years to the extent that many claim it is unwatchable, the second-tier competition chops and changes all the time, etc. And all that is before the financial effects of Covid-19. A proper review needs to look at all these things and more to ensure a wholistic approach is taken to the next 25 years of the AFL. The AFL can't sit on its hands and say that all wisdom resides within the current Commission.

Every club has NQRs. It is about getting them to operate at the best plodding level as often as possible. Like people not up to the job in the workplace - if you can't sack them, just get the best out of them as much as you can.

Just a shoulder clean out for Clarry. Shouldn't cause him too much grief over the pre season.

Oliver and Petrac working in tandem two powerhouses and at their prime. Umpires will take notice from now on, no doubt.

Now is our time. We have to recruit for having a tilt at the flag over the next two years. Move on the not quite rights. Bring in what we need and what will make us harder to play against. Age or cost, to a certain extent has no bearing . At some stage you have to pull the trigger.

The thing I've noticed about the brownlow over the years, if you had a good year previous, the umpires already know to look for you, ie. Clarry at Maxy getting plenty votes . I expect Tracc to poll even better next year, same goes with the AA

Who wants Cotchin and Riewoldt to have 3 flags?

It baffles me when people say Woewodin didn't deserve a Brownlow because he did not have a great career. The Brownlow is not a lifetime achievement award, it's about how good you were in a given season. Woewodin had a great year in 2000, and even if he didn't get a vote in the final round he still would have won (tied with West).

Freudian slip...?

We don't currently look like losing any best 18 players, let alone best 22. Of those you named, only ANB played in round 22, and it seems most people here want him gone anyway! If we lose TMac and bring in Brown, lose Hannan and bring in Smith, we have just pushed Brown/Weiderman and Baker into the reserves, immediately making our team better. We have a couple of quality senior players with a couple of years left (Gawn, May, Hibberd), and the middle 12 players in our best 22 will all have hit 100 games next year. We are either primed for a shot, or need to tear apart and rebuild. If this group haven't made it in the next two seasons, we are going to be doing some major list changes.

Well done Christian Polling 6 best on grounds and a 2nd best. A brilliant season and it showed with the umpire's noticing you. Hoping you can take it to the next level again in 2021.

Well done Christian. 20 votes in the Brownlow is good reward for your hard work. Hopefully next year it will be yours.