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He has tried it for 7 games since he's come to the club. We are 1 win and 6 losses in those games. When he was the sole ruck we were 2 wins and 1 loss. The year before he played 6 games with Goldstein ..... they lost all 6 games. He was only involved in one win, and that was when Goldstein was injured and Preuss was the number 1 ruckman. Overall, when playing in a 2 ruck setup, Preuss is 1 win and 12 losses, whilst being 3 wins 2 losses when rucking alone. I'm not sure how much more evidence we need to understand that Preuss as a second ruck is definitely not a winning tactic!

We had very few soft tissue injuries this year. I have no medical background or expertise at all but it wouldn't surprise me if there is a link between aerobic/physical fitness and soft tissue injuries. Hopefully someone like @Webber can tell me whether there's any link. But putting that to one side, we won 11 fourth quarters (4th best for the league) but also drew another two, which overall made us the 2nd best team for fourth quarters. Our fourth quarter percentage was 164.85%, a clear second (Geelong was first at 179.9%, St Kilda third at 134.88%). We outscored our opponents in fourth quarters by 131 points across 17 games. We also went 6-3 in the last 9 games of the season despite having a league-high three four-day breaks across the season and no bye in that period. Despite that, we didn't have players breaking down, and we continued to run games out well. So, I think our fitness levels were pretty good, and even if they're not superior to other clubs, this year showed significant improvement to 2019.

Would consider trading in a player, but would rather not part with a developed, mature player for a late pick.

These are the ruck trades (excluding those that are so complicated that it's hard to ascertain the value) simplified from the past 10 seasons so that we can get an idea for the value of Preuss. Some are mentioned twice because they've been traded multiple times. Matthew Lobbe, Jonathan Giles - Free-ish Sam Jacobs, Darcy Cameron, Zac Smith, Marc Pittonet, Andrew Phillips, Nathan Vardy, Stef Martin, Jonathon Griffin – 4th round Toby Nankervis, Trent West – 3rd round Tom Hickey, Jarrod Witts, Zac Smith – 2nd / 3rd round Shaun Hampson, Shane Mumford, Billy Longer, Tom Hickey, Ivan Maric, Brent Renouf, Sam Jacobs – 2nd round Paddy Ryder, Ben McEvoy, David Hale – 1st round I think Preuss sits comfortably in the second round, perhaps even at the early end of it. The difference between a lot of the rucks on this list and Preuss is that barely any were in contract and were leaving for more opportunity. We have Preuss in contract, so we don't have to accept a sub-par trade. I'd be extremely surprised if we got anything less than a decent second round pick for him, especially with the thin ruck stocks for trade this year.

Staggered this has been missed. Max Gawn has the most All-Australians of any Melbourne player in history including its previous incarnations (from what I can deduce, at least since 1991) From a player who hardly played due to injuries until he was about 23, this a remarkable effort. 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020. Well done Max. Club Legend.

Essendon had 30 year old Bellchambers and 20 year old yet to debut Draper, they landed Phillips from Carlton. After losing Phillips at one stage during trade week last year Carlton had 30 year old broken down Kreuzer and 19 year old Tom De Koning. They landed Pittonet. One look through the out of contract list shows: Kieran Strachan, Max Lynch, Henry Crauford, Darcy Fort, Keegan Brooksby, Ryan Abbott, Joel Amartey, Nathan Vardy and Jackson Trengove. And there's bound to be contracted players - Callum Coleman-Jones is probably one - who are available. If we get something useful for Preuss to find a player in our best 22 we can find a 3rd string relief option elsewhere.

NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE HIM. However, if you're looking for a Head Coach...

He fills a spot, if not on the bench on our best 22, but in the next ~4. So given injuries and form, I expect him to play 10-15 games next year. Normally, cycling players at that level is a good thing, with developing kids taking his place. So to trade him out for an average pick in a normal year world be ok, on balance. But unnless we are bringing in 2-3 more best 22 players than we lose (meaning he is pushed even further down the list), then I think he is worth more to us than a 3rd round pick in a comprimised draft with limited exposed form. I'd happy trade him if it was part of a deal that brought in a better player.

I feel like he's a whipping boy on this site but he generally plays his role ok. He's one of the best endurance runners in the team from memory...

Hmmm.... It’s hard to gauge whether hub life was a good thing or a bad thing for Bennell given his history. The little alcohol demons had sat in waiting in the amygdala of his brain and have been released to wreak havoc. I can speak from a position of knowledge here guys because I’ve experienced similar after extended periods of abstinence. It’s such a fine line to tip toe along dealing with alcohol misuse disorder. I really feel for him and his missus.

Yet Viney was probably our best midfielder over the first 2 finals and set the tone with incredible tackling and defensive pressure especially against the Cats. Then won a heap of the footy against the Hawks. If all our mids bought the pressure and intensity of Viney we'd almost have no choice but to find a way to move the ball because we'd be creating so many turnovers and loose ball gets the rest would work itself out. That's pretty much the Richmond model, the biggest difference is they surround their traditional mids with skilled flanker types who pressure.

What a marvellous incentive to win. this could be a game to watch. my interest in these Finals is almost zero

The age debate for Maxy reminds me of this classic Premier League interaction on twitter.

I would. We ran out games superbly this year, and our injury run across the board was better than anything I can remember under Misson. He is the one off season recruit for the 'off field' department that was a raging success in my book.

I think the fact Bennell got on the park and AVB didn’t break down are glowing endorsements for Burgess. Those two have probably combined for 10 games in 5 years. He seems to have a great rapport with the guys too, I think he’s probably our most important recruit in many, many years

*whispers i think they’re being sarcastic ?

Best year injury-wise for as long as I can remember. Very few soft-tissue injuries too, which is quite the feat given the compact fixture. Hard to argue the correlation with his arrival and there’d be a strong argument for the causation

To the Crows for pick 44 or 48 would be about fair, although if we could potentially make it ANB and 47 for pick 30 that would be a great deal for us, although not as likely.

Really do hope we are into Phillips. Bit like Langdon where he can butcher it every now and then, but spreads and runs really hard and someone I'd much rather on a wing then Tomlinson or Baker.

eh? max turns 29 at the end of this year jackson is one of the most exciting young talls we've recruited in a long, long time preuss turns 26 midway thru next season and has played less than 20 games in his time playing afl; if he has value, now is the time to move him on

I may be way off base with this, but going to throw it out there nonetheless. I reckon Covid killed his career. Hear me out. He appeared to get his life back on track, away from footy. From all reports he was on track during the early parts of the season and even post-Covid break. I don't think he's built for the footy club life, and he was able to stay 'outside' of it while in Melbourne, and had his family to get away to. Covid hubs come along and he just can't escape the boys. There's nowhere to hide. Now he's basically forced to watch them have a good time, with a few beers no doubt, and can't get away from it, so he's drawn back into that world. The world that destroyed his career in the first place. Add to that the he basically had nothing to do with no 2nds competition and the outcome was almost inevitable. Like I say, I may be way off base, but I'm prepared to cut him some slack. I wish him all the best for the rest of his life, and I think you'll find, away from footy, he'll be back on track pretty quickly.

As most of you will know I attended many of Melbourne's training sessions at Gosch's before we moved to Casey as a result of Covid. My main interest was the rehab group, I always like to see who's in rehab and how they are progressing and as a result I watched Harley on many occasions. I'll confess to being hard line when it comes to a failure of individual responsibilities and whilst I welcomed Harley's presence because I thought he had exactly the skills we needed I wasn't sold on him as a person for obvious reasons. But since then a couple of things have happened. The first was reading the story in The Australian of the racism Eddie Betts has suffered over the journey in which things happened that I found hard to believe. It made me appreciate the racism indigenous people suffer in this country. The second was getting to know Harley in a very minor way. He didn't talk to "track watchers" but because I was always near the rehab group he came to recognize me after a while. I'd say hello and he'd just smile, perhaps say a few words, but that was more than many got. I'd watch him casually grab a footy and from the boundary slot a banana goal so easily it seemed surreal. One day he decided that doing this was too easy so he made the shot more difficult and slotted it again. I was open mouthed and he looked at me and had a huge smile on his face. I said to him "it's like hitting a great drive, it never gets stale" and he laughed. For all that has happened what Harley had was a type of quiet charisma. The players clearly loved him and I really liked him to the point he became my favourite player. I didn't really understand why he was but he just was. What has happened is terribly sad but Harley is a product of his upbringing and his past. I'm proud we gave him a chance, sad it failed and wish him all the best for the future. Thanks Harley and thanks for showing me repeatedly the extraordinary skills you have first hand. I'd not have believed them if I hadn't seen them. I hope you find happiness.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/511202/marathon-men-telstra-tracker-reveals-your-club-s-endurance-kings Top-five most distance covered in a game in 2020 Ed Langdon, 13.3km v Sydney, round 15 Christian Salem, 13.3km v Gold Coast, round 6 Ed Langdon, 13.1km v GWS Giants, round 17 Christian Salem, 13km v Collingwood, round 12 Christian Salem, 13km v GWS Giants, round 17 Top-five most distance covered per game in 2020 Ed Langdon, 12.3km Christian Salem, 11.9km Adam Tomlinson, 11.5km Clayton Oliver, 11.3km Sam Weideman, 11.3km There was another article like this last week which showed who our fastest was, and to my surprise it was Christian Salem. It's not immediately obvious, but he is clearly a far better athlete than many give him credit for. The other stand out here is Sam Weideman. He has a lot of big detractors on this site, but it's obvious the bloke works extremely hard to provide an option and create contests. We get another genuine marking target up forward next year, and he could seriously break out in my view. I have been very cold on the notion of Ben Brown (mostly because of his hair..), but if all we're getting him for is to lead hard at the ball, it opens up the ground for Weids, Fritsh etc to go to work.

15 disposals (1.3 clangers), 4 tackles, 1.3 shots at goal per game with high accuracy (64.41 over his career), plus 0.6 goal assists are pretty handy stats over 80 games for a fringe play. Note that means 4 tackles where he causes his opponent to lose possession. He may have weaknesses, and he definitely isn't a midfielder but he is better than a speculative pick 45.

Absolutely, if you want to meet the absolute gutter of supporters of any footy club head to the Facebook pages. I do feel sorry for this poor woman who is probably going through a fair bit herself right now. It would just be great if she knew the majority of Melbourne fans here while disappointed it didn't work out are really concerned about what is happening with Harley right now and dearly want to see him back on track and ready for the next phase.

Trading up players like Nibbler is where we will see improvement. We have a great top end of the list but we fall away quite sharply below our top 10 players

Yeah, cause no one drinks or does drugs on a Sunday afternoon. Especially AFL footballers.

Cesspool, and Fox Sports should have more restraint and good judgement than to validate the chumps and low lives who post their hate on it. The cesspool organisation has a business model that works against human decency and high morals and has been shown to cause depression.

I’ve seen worse ideas, but with Hibberd probably only having 1 year left and a decision to be made on Nev I don’t think were in the market for a 35 year old. I actually think he’d make sense for North.

Think that's pretty ambitious for a fringe player. For reference, Dan Butler got traded for pick 56 - he is/was clearly a more valuable player than ANB, and had much better players keeping him out of Richmond's 22. ANB would net us a token 4th rounder. TBH he's probably worth more to us as depth, but I'm not really fussed if he goes.

He shows a bit Nibbler. Hard at it type and doesn’t get the credit for has running patterns and pressure... Needs to be given consistent game time in my opinion. I would keep! Completely understand if he wanted to seek more opportunity elsewhere. Adelaide would be a perfect fit for him I would think.

ANB is a good AFL-grade player. Any pick for him we receive in return will be speculative. I don't understand why he cops such bad press. Let's honour the contract in place!

15 Demons received coaches votes in 2020. Petracca polled in 11 games and received 78 votes.(4.6) Oliver 6 games 34 votes (2) Viney 7 games 30 votes (1.8) Gawn 6 games 30 votes (2.1) May 6 games 28 votes (1.6) Brayshaw 3 games 19 votes Langdon 5 games 17 votes Fritsch 1 game 8 votes Weidemann 3 games 4 votes Lever 1 game 4 votes Hibberd 1 game 4 votes Salem 2 games 3 votes Hunt 1 game 2 votes Spargo 1 game 2 votes Brown 1 game 1 vote Number in brackets represents average votes per game played. May didn't poll until Round 7 and Langdon didn't score his first votes until Round 11. After Round 10 Viney only polled once, a 1 vote performance in our loss to the Dockers. Max polled in three of our last 4 games (Sydney, GWS and Essendon). Petracca only polled twice when we lost this season. Oliver did not poll a vote in our final 6 games. Fritsch, Hunt and Brown all polled their only votes in the final game of the season. Based on our club B&F results May was rated more highly internally, and it appears Gawn a bit lower, although missing three games needs to be factored into that as well.

I'd be happy with that.

This is very sad indeed. he has a long road ahead :( i don’t think Hub Life was good for Harley. So sad he only had 48 hours to go. i helped an addict abstain about 15 years ago. It was a month i will never forget. I knew nothing of that world

Would love this. All 3 players could add something to our midfield rotation. Caldwell in particular has star potential IMO.

no, he turns 30 literally the day before 2021 ends; he'll be 29 for the entirety of 2021 most teams run with one ruckman on ground at all times - there's no need to 'panic' about us running with just gawn and jackson being our sole two rucks on the list in 2021 as there's still a whole trade and recruiting period to come

The four years at Freo with no medical solution to his calf problems destroyed him as a player, was always going to be an uphill battle getting him back to anywhere near his best. During those dark times he found solace in drowning his sorrows in the drink and whatever else came his way. Unfortunately he could never get back the appetite for the contest having seen it at close quarters i knew personally he was done. Training form while a good indicator doesn't replicate match form sadly for Harley the game had past him by.

Trade him for one of the GWS first rounders that are OOC: O'halloran, Caldwell or Hateley whichever fills our needs most. They'll all have more talent than whatever we might get in the second round this year.

Key forwards have to run a lot of KM's. They play high game minutes (up to 100%) and are often jogging to reposition forward of the ball. It's less intense running than the mids and smalls. That said, Weid missed a reliable partner once Jackson got injured and the Swans and Freo games in particular were noticeable that he had to play CHF because either Brown wouldn't contest or Preuss couldn't get to the contest. Weid was constantly towards the top of the most KMs and I think it caught up with him in the last month.

While I see the pros and cons of Jack leaving/staying this has a James McDonald feel to it all over again. I honestly don’t believe a club like us can afford to lose a heart and soul player like Jack, regardless of his on field limitations. I’d hate to have to play against him. I think we would regret the decision badly, if that is, we have the opportunity to keep him. Hoping he stays.

Petracca stays Oliver does too it is simple. 2 peas in a pod. Mcclure the dribbling dreamer !

Petty is a better player. We know he can also play forward, but I see him long-term in defence. He could be a terrific key defender.

Part of me can’t help but wonder how things would’ve gone had COVID not happened. He came to MELBOURNE, not just the team but the city for a fresh start with his family. Instead he ended up back in Queensland where everything started turning, in a hub with people he has known for less than a year, and without a second tier league for the club to properly reintroduce him back to footy with. None of these are excuses, as a footy club I really think we did everything we could to help him and regardless of what has transpired and will happen in the future I still think we have been a positive impact on him. He was a free hit, we got his body working again but the mind is a harder prospect particularly when it comes to things like depression and substance/alcohol addiction. I’m absolutely gutted that it hasn’t worked, I think the demon faithful would’ve fallen in love with watching him at the G. This is on Harley and now that footy hasn’t worked he needs to knuckle down and sort his s*** out not just for himself but for his partner and kid(s). Well done to the club, good luck to Harley.

This table is the ranking of teams by Centre Clearance differential (ie, how many more centre clearances per game more than your opponents) in red, and Stoppage Clearance differential (ie, non-centre bounce stoppages) in green. What sticks out to me is that the lists are reasonably correlated (ie, Port, Geelong, Blues all good, Crows, Tigers, Hawks, Dockers, Swans all stink) but that the answer is probably lying in the teams where there is difference between the lists. Let's divide them into different categories: Good centre, lower stoppage: West Coast, North Melbourne, Collingwood. Good stoppage, lower centre: Gold Coast, Melbourne, Bulldogs. The first thing I notice about the first group (Eagle, Roos, Pies) is that they each have AA quality ruckmen. Naitanui and Goldstein are enormously responsible for the centre clearances in comparatively weak midfields. I think that this one is pretty easily analysed. However the other AA ruckman is Gawn, who is part of the second group, which is comparatively poor in centre bounces! That's really interesting! Bulldogs have a great midfield and a terrible tap ruck (at this point), while the Suns have some really strong bodies over the ball (Greenwood, Swallow, Miller, Rowell) and a bullocking ruck (Witts). What I think this information leads us towards, is that the centre bounce tends to depend on the quality of your ruckwork (in addition to the midfield) whilst around the ground stoppages rely on the quality of your midfield, with the ruck being only a minor factor. Perhaps the problem is, despite his ability to get his hand on the ball, Gawn just isn't a very good tap ruckman but, rather, just an exceptional around the ground ruck. Or perhaps we just don't design good centre bounce plays.

OK. Viney does multiple roles, and it varied depending on who is in the centre with him. Here is one against St Kilda, without Oliver. It's Viney, Brayshaw and Petracca. This is set up for Petracca to have the who far side open to him. Viney blocks out Steele, Brayshaw gets inside Jones to block and Petracca beats Ross and gets to the far side with space. This is shown below: Unfortunately the play breaks down because Brayshaw can't get inside Jones to block him out, so Jones gets the ball before it gets to Petracca. Viney, on the other hand, gets Steele out of position and is therefor a non-factor in the stoppage. This is shown below. I show this as an example of how important these roles are in stoppages. Here is another, with the play designed for Oliver. Oliver is to beat Shiel to the tap to the far side, with Viney blocking out Merrett to create space and Melksham playing purely defensively on Stringer (near side). Essentially: Merrett give Viney the slip early, which puts the play in jeopardy. But Viney is able to recover to win body position to push Merrett into the contest, which keeps the play alive. Oliver gets a little hold from Shiel, but because Viney has done his job so well on Merrett he's now clear and able to recover the ball to win the clearance. Around the ground, Viney does the same on good players. Here the tap is for Oliver, with Crouch defending him. Brayshaw blocks the inside exit and AVB the defensive exit (we're kicking left). Viney is trusted one on one with their best player, Rory Laird. Viney beats Laird for position and, when there's no effective tap from either Gawn or O'Reilly, Viney is able to win the clearance off the back of his good defensive body work. Now he's one with Petracca on Laird and Brayshaw on Crouch. It's a weird one because the play breaks down with a dodgy bounce. The tap ends up going forwards to no-man's land. But the important thing is the defence at the stoppage. Crouch edges Brayshaw off the ball and Petracca is lost with the clever Laird, but Viney recovers really quickly from the odd tap and gets himself between the ball and Keays, who isn't able to have any influence on the play. The first possession is won by Crouch and the clearance by Laird. It's a comfortable clearance in the end and Laird wanders through untouched. Keays is shut out quickly by Viney. Brayshaw and Petracca are non-entities once beaten, but Viney is able to do his role so consistently. This happens over and over again. Viney is able to kill opposition clearances and also win his own off the back of this. He doesn't have the play designed for him as often as the attacking mids, but he can do it well if there is another defensive midfielder in the stoppage. For example, this stoppage involves Vandenberg. Viney is on Shiel (left) whilst AVB is blocking Merrett and Oliver is being defended. Shiel is the opposition's best midfielder, but Viney is so good at winning the body battle in stoppages that the play can confidently predict he wins body position for the surprise attack. Oliver's man only has eyes for him, so Oliver just has to stay out of the way of Viney, whilst AVB just blocks Merrett away. The tap goes to the far side, which is easy to do when the opposition has Stewart in the ruck. It's an easy clearance in the end because of a terrible setup by Essendon. But the whole play depends on Viney winning body position, which he does. Usually he does it defensively for other players, but he can do it himself so reliably that sometimes they design plays for it. He has the quality to play both attacking and defensive. The defensive midfielder is under-appreciated. Brayshaw has been given this responsibility at times, but he just doesn't do it to the level of Viney. You can see that, since Brayshaw went down late in the year, Melksham has been sent into the middle to play defensively. Oliver can do it at times, but he's a target man more often than not whilst Viney creates the space he can use. When Petracca is in there the ball is almost always going to him. Oliver is a rounded midfield but he doesn't play as a defensively minded stoppage midfielder like Viney. Viney is so important because he's so much better than the next best player in his role (Brayshaw, AVB and Melksham), and one of the best at it in the league. Plus, on top of that, he can be used offensively when required. There's a reason why a range of coaches love him every single year, but his style means that it doesn't always get its way on to the stats sheet.

I was born in 1971. I only freely disclose this to Demonlanders because I know none of you. I have life experience. This talk of ruthlessness is just carp - so 1970s. It’s now all about EQ and understanding what motivates the players, as individuals and how they fit into the collective. I have real concerns for this club if we don’t manage to re-sign Viney. I thought he’s exactly what Goodwin wanted - why then did we trade the likes of Jack Watts? I loathe incompetence, and I am concerned that it may be unfolding here. Yet again.

This year has changed our world and changed our perspectives on many things. I have been following Melbourne for a long time. As you get older and reflect on your football supporting life, you remember the highlights. Many would probably say what highlights, Melbourne has not been successful as a club, they haven't won a premiership since I began supporting them. Believe me, as time goes on, and especially this year, when so many enjoyments have been taken away or lost, it's the great moments you witnessed, together with fellow fans around you at the ground, that you treasure. Jack's goal that QB game was one of those moments. My view was the same as you see on the TV clip, only us fans were all on our feet screaming when he took that run down the wing. We all knew he was going to kick the goal. The noise was deafening. It was like being at a Beatles concert. No one could hear each other. We were lost in the moment of elation and awe. For a while the outside world took a back seat. We need moments like those more than ever. Best wishes and good health to you Jack. Thanks for the memories.