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Too many here are evaluating Jackson on the basis he is only a ruckman. If that were the case I'd agree it's a silly pick. But Jason Taylor said that towards the end of the season he saw Jackson play forward and was impressed. I imagine he was impressed because as a "ruckman" he kept getting the ball as a forward and having an impact both in the air and at ground level as the good tall forwards do. IMO we are looking at Jackson more as a forward than as a ruckman. We might think he will go into the ruck when needed or when Gawn retires (many years yet) but we are planning for him to be a forward first. The lack of vision of his forward work is frustrating. Many here have seen him play ruck (either live or through replay) but none have really seen him play much forward (with apologies to Chaser and Pennent), so the negativity is really based on a wrong premise or lack of knowledge. Jackson is a forward come midfielder (I know he's not a midfielder but he follows up and gets the ball at ground level) come ruckman for mine. In other words he could be anything but is very likely to be something. Too many clubs are interested for this to be a misplaced pick. I'm loving this draft. We look like getting some really interesting and potentially exciting players and having said all that we still don't know what picks we'll have with the genuine possibility we'll trade pick 10. What a great nights entertainment tomorrow.

I can understand the concern at taking someone like Pickett at pick 10 but perhaps we are just a bit ahead of the curve. Charlie Cameron and Eddie Betts are two of the most influential small X factor forwards of recent times and neither were taken in the National Draft. Small forwards, in a lot of cases, have been taken late because of the reasons mentioned here. But good ones are match winners. If the Betts and Cameron drafts were done retrospectively they'd both be in the top 10, perhaps top 5. If we take Pickett it's because we believe he can have the same impact as other elite small forwards. If we are right we've got a bargain, if not we'll be one of many clubs that have a miss with a pick in that vacinity. Personally I hope we take him unless someone we really rate slides. I believe we have a good list, as Mahoney said our list is pretty much set. We don't want for a lot as long as our (the FD) evaluation of players is correct (Weid and Petty succeeding for example). The other thing is that many here overrate pick 10. It can throw up some guns but it can also throw up some duds. All pick 10's are guns when drafted but there are a lot of duds amoungst them. We have been crying out for X factor for years. Many here have lamented we don't have it and now as we look like getting it many have gone all gun shy.

Whenever a youngster calls me "Boomer", I just tell them to shut up or I'll increase their rent.

Worst training thread ever!

I'd advise you to keep the random screws a secret from your wife.

I am wrong. I read the AFL headline advertising the coverage from 2pm. Apparently that's 2pm tomorrow. I don't know how I'm going to cope .... I'd been building to my emotional peak for this evening. I'm going to need a cold bath and some valium.

No single type of player 'wins you a premiership', and you can't single out players and their premiership totals and then try to talk 'context'. How many flags did Cyril win? How many has Daniel Rioli won? What about even going back to Stevie J? Silly to cherry pick players out when talking about a specific role in a team. You also realize Cameron was traded for pick 12 yeah? A team wins a premiership. Within the team is the right mix of roles. The small forward role is currently a massive weakness of ours, so "in the context" of the Melbourne Demons trying to win a flag from 2020 and beyond then you know what? A small forward just might win us a premiership 'in that context'.

I could handle a lot less nobility LDC.

There's something noble about being a long-suffering supporter.

Training began just after 9 am. Jordan Lewis was with the coaches. Richardson was making connections with individual players. Different types of warm-ups and drill stations to keep them on their toes and interested. Rehab had the same three in it. Kade Kolodjasni, Jake Melksham nor Charlie Spargo were with the squad. In a competitive drill Christian Pettraca hurt his right shoulder. Four medical staff assessed it. They gave him the pills and got him running several 200 to 250 meter sprints. He continued to carry the arm and winced when he took his jumper off. Tom Mcdonald required some work on his lower back. The spray and strapping was applied and he continued training. Ed Langdon had a little work on his right calf. Adam Tomlinson running laps. Oskar Baker walking. Mitch Hannan mainly walking. Joel Smith doing his own program and participated in some minimal contact drills. Kade Chandler was back to normal training. Our ball handling in the drills looked good. The congested simulations are a great place for the coaches to explain the cause of turnovers. I think it was Chaplin who said, 'slow and loopy'. Neville Jetta, Sam Wiedeman, Jake Lever and Aaron Nietschke on for the 3/4 field simulations. I was impressed with: Angus Brayshaw acceleration, change of directions, creating separation through the centre of the field. He was in number 43 as his number 10 had been ripped in the last couple of outings. Nathan Jones decision-making, communication and delivery into the full forwards with flat punts. Tom Mcdonald leading and moving well. Bayley Fritsch rolling, changes in directions, making it hard for the back men and leads into unseen spaces. Neville for forcing multiple entries. James Harmes learning from Neville, Hibbs and coaches about space and release. Michael Hibberd doing some coaching in his group. Oscar Mcdonald getting to the contest. Jake Lever, Michael Hibberd and Marty Hore for their communication, reading the play, getting to the contest and picking up the loose player. A couple of times the mids got caught in the early stages of the 3/4 simulation Nathan wasn't happy, given the amount of work he did to make position. I have noticed he is a bit more grumpy this time round. They are building well. I left training just as they were going into their running programs.

Jesus, memory lane, I have the advantage, being born in Liverpool and brought up by Liverpudlian parents First thing you are taught, boomer or not, is not to give a flying [censored] what anyone thinks of you As for the Boom by the players, think that is Neal Bullen again to blame for that and no training and official function, only time I interact with players So for you music lovers Have seen in no particular order Hendrix at the Isle of Wught Beefheart at 4.00am in the morning Pink Floyd doing Dark Side of the Moon including aircraft coming over heads of audience and crashing on stage First Australian gig Angels at Bondi Lifesavers First Melbourne gig, Rose Tattoo, Pete Wells version, Bombay Rock First Aussie Rules game, some Aussie friend, decided as I was used to English soccer crowds, took me to Vic Park to see Collingwood v Carlton in 1978, an eye opener to say the least????

I’d be excited if I was him too... The bloke can finally go on an absolute bender on Friday night!

The only thing I'm interested in is him being fit to play... You would think he was Ivan Milat the way some people go on. All his so called issues will mean nothing if he can get on the ground and perform at his best.

Before it get's taken as lore, I was being facetious with my comment as every injury we had this year seemed to be 4 to 6 and then they almost never played again.

This is exactly right. The fact that the gun small forwards have been drafted late is a fault of drafting. It's that recruiters have been unable to rate them correctly. It's not that they are not worth drafting early. If we draft Pickett early it's because we think he'll be a gun and if he is it will be worth it. Clubs that continue with the current model of only drafting small forwards late because they can't rate them properly will eventually get left behind. BTW, exactly the same argument applies to drafting Jackson at 3.

Just listened to SEN for a couple of minutes. Someone on from Saints. Pretty sure it was their Head of List Manager James Gallagher, Gossige asked him if Saints had pick 3 who would they pick. He said unprompted, Jackson then mentioned Aish. Probably snakes and ladders but still that's what he said.

When I watched him towards the back end of the year playing for Dandenong, he was playing around the wing. His kicking really is a delight to watch, but certainly his body work on being a midfielder needed work. He is a talented player and will be a gun half back in years to come. But these days you can pluck half back flanker from anywhere and they can come in a make a sudden impact. The likes of Marty Hore, Luke Ryan, Tom Stewart and Michael Hibbered are just example of HBF who are late picks who can come in and play the role straight away. So really using pick 3 on a HBF probably isn't really that necessary. This is why the Luke Jackson recruit makes sense. Rarely do you get blokes in the Brody Grundy and Nic Naitanui class that come right at your door step. Jackson is one of those rare breeds who'll be a very very good AFL player when he hits his prime.

I am more comfortable with Pickett being selected by as at pick 10 than I am with taking Luke Jackson at pick 3. If you agree with that statement, hit the Like button. If you disagree, hit the Angry button.

Nothing surer than us taking Jackson and Pickett, then receiving a C+ draft assessment in the Herald Sun On Friday. ”with two high first round draft selections the Demons chose to go with need rather than best available. Will it pay off? Time will tell...”

OK boomer. We know this is made up. Cars weren't even invented 50 years ago.

You may be correct, but it certainly can happen. Take Martin Pike for instance the wild boy of Melbourne, North Melbourne and Fitzroy. Picked up by Leigh Matthews to play for Brisbane after Matthews claimed that Pike having become a father had settled down. And of course he played in the Lions 2001/2/3 premiership teams OK just one example but I’m sure there are more. If Bennell can overcome his injury problems and has matured (many people do when they reach the age of 27 and have a family to consider) then us supporters are in for a treat!

the other characteristic of the later generations is a sense of entitlement and an obsession with having a personal brand. Hence the new industry of social influencer - what the hell is that all about? My theory is that as cities get bigger it becomes harder to stand out and be relevant so you have to compete all the time, whereas in smaller communities cooperation is important so everyone has a role and an identity.

I find most baby boomers are free spirits. Travelling, learning, partying, exploring boundaries, championing egalitarianism and challenging the norms of their parents. I also think, they are a generation that hasn't grown-up. The later generations are much more concerned with social appearance and reflect a life restrained by the peer group. They use labels to describe fellow human beings and are very socially hierarchical.

Just an interesting comparison for those who are expecting him to be like Grundy. In these highlights, Grundy shows very little follow up work or second efforts. A better kicking action overall, but a few hacks at it when in congestion. Regardless of what conclusion you come to from this footage, I think it's a relevant comparison.

The first grand final I went to was the 1954 and was heartbroken we lost to my best friends Footscray but from then on we were easily the best team in the VFL, Roger Dean's acting performance cost us another premiership, and the 1958 grand final was a Norm Smith error (players told me he admitted this after the game), when he was expecting a wet weekend and trained the players on thursday night before the grand final for 2 hours in the wet.

I'm not sure why I'm responding to this because the first bit of information is but a click away and the second point just rot. Cameron was in the rookie draft and Betts was in the PSD. Neither have been in premiership teams. Either was Robbie Flower but perhaps you're not a fan of his either. Teams win premierships not players. Have a think about that and a lot might fall into place for you.

Agreed. Seems like many really want him but would rather risk losing him than taking him with pick 10! Its just not a philosophy I really get. He's almost the prototype of the exact type of player our team is crying out for... and he'll be available. Yes, granted his unproven but ALL the recruits are in the same bracket. Hope the MFC has the balls to do this.

Smoking on the job? Me thinks the lad has been learning some bad habits from Gawny! LOL

Is his name really Deven? Is that even a name?

Sweet. We should be eligible for Petracca father-sons shortly after the bye.

Exclusive article in the Hun. Interesting point below about the surgery he had (note to mods, this is not the whole article. "Delisted Docker and would-be Demon Harley Bennell will run for the first time in five months tomorrow. Bennell, 27, will roll the legs over on Tuesday afternoon “just to see if they still work” after being given the all-clear from his doctors. He has undergone multiple bouts of surgery on his troublesome calves since breaking down again playing WAFL on June 23. The injury-plagued speedster starts training with Melbourne next Tuesday, confident specialists have cracked the code to reignite his stalled 83-game career. told the Herald Sun. Tendons pushing onto nerves in both of Bennell’s calves have been removed as part of his radical rehabilitation plan. “At first I was a bit iffy about it, but I’d heard other players like Sam Reid at Sydney had done it, so fingers crossed it will all work out,” Bennell said." https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/harley-bennell-to-run-for-first-time-in-five-months-on-tuesday-as-he-bids-to-earn-afl-chance-at-melbourne/news-story/6178a29260df3e3b49a0ed433f2d464c

I have heard Jackson is a lock at 3 but pick 10 is well and truly open.

I was there for just over an hour and highlights for me were: VDB doing fairly intense rehab work - lots of kicking and marking on the lead, followed by hard 200m running - way too fit/quick for rehab colleagues Tom Petty and Bradtke. Trac and Joel Smith did quite a few of the 200m also before heading off early. I've said it before but Joel Smith now has an upper body that will draw the girls to him and he's my tip to play on Jack Darling in Rd 1, assuming he's passed fit by then. And barring more stressies, I reckon VDB could be back with all the boys early December. These two will be our best recruits this year if we get them on the park. T-Mac looked really good, kicked beautifully for goal and marked well and later was unstoppable in running drills passing Jayden after about 110m of 120m run throughs. Gawny and Viney both looked in mint condition and matched up on each other in a couple of midfield duels. Bit like Schwarzenegger and De Vito in Twins. Joint captains for sure. Lever looked good, but can someone please show him how to do leg weights. O-Mac being O-Mac - I won't go into it but most of you get what I mean. Dunkley had a red-hot go and don't be surprised if he's in the midfield mix for Rd 1 - he matched up with Angus most of the time and he's learning the trade well. He then led all the early 200m reps again. And there's a prize if you can guess who passed him to win the last rep ... the new Neiter. I reckon the double would have paid $150 as JJ came through for the silver.

Anyway. Got there at about 9:40. 40 minutes late or 50 minutes early. Melbourne traffic... Rehab: Baker doing some kind of backwards walk with a trainer and elastic bands Hannan having a wander around the boundary Tomlinson - who looks very fit and light - jogging, headed off pretty early Petty, Vanders, Bradtke doing sprints No Melksham, KK or Spargo that I could see. First drill I really paid attention to was a 5 on 3 kicking in a 50 by 50 box. The group I had included Gus Brayshaw in the 43 jumper. Honestly it suits him, the 4 and 3 both have nice shapes that work with his angular body and face. I think he should keep it permanently. He doesn't look as thin as say Harmes and Oliver but he has nice muscle definition in the upper body and nothing extra through the hips that I could see. He was kicking accurately off both sides. Then it was in to 8 on 6 short ball movement in two different groups up either wings. Sharp work from all that I saw. Then it was time for in tight handballing, with 2 different divisions split in either half of the centre square. I like a nice burst from Toby Bedford where he escaped from traffic.I actually think he does his best work around stoppages. They mixed it up with the same kind of drill but up and down each wing for about 50m getting quick hands. Langdon was a standout from what I saw, both with the ball and defensively he's really sharp to move contest to contest. Salem. James Jordon. Oliver involved in everything as usual. Again, very sharp stuff. By this stage Jetta, Weideman and Nietschke were split off to do some rehab stuff. Marking and then the old fashion keepings off with 1 guy with the ball, 1 blocking, 1 chasing. Nietschke more than held his own blocking or chasing, he's a willing lad. Joel Smith and Lever also sat out some of the main stuff for some kick/mark rehab work. Lever, Jetta, Nietschke, Weideman all went back in the main groups later. Petty, Vanders, Bradkte and Joel Smith did some leading and kicking, then some good running before finishing up. Bradtke can kick a lovely drop punt for a tall. The main group moved in to the british bulldog injury drill as mentioned above. Whilst T Mc, Preuss and Gawn did marking with Matty Egan. Jason Taylor in attendance and looking very comfortable. He always strikes me as very tall. And has very small lower calves, I can't confirm if he has donated his calves to Harley B. Mahoney, Matty Whelan, Shagger Byrnes all floating around. Kelly O'Donnell watching intently with binoculars. Line groups did some specific stuff. Defenders one on one marking and a quick handball then kick to a fellow defender back leading for an exit kick. Finally in to match sim. It was toward the end of a long session but it was noticeable how after short burst of match sim how stuffed the players were. Footy hey, it hurts. Nibbler snapped a nice goal. Some sloppy mistakes down to fatigued I'm sure and it was blowing. Overall not too disappointed with it. The standout player who was finding space for marks, hitting targets and constantly letting dangerous.....well maybe I'll keep that for myself for now, you guys seem to like the suspense.?

I’m going back to the game between Casey v Under 18 Australians that was played in April with the Aussies overrunning the Dees in the second half when the Casey coach took off most of his AFL listens. At the time, most of the Under 18s were relative unknowns – today they read like a who’s who of the draft. The standouts were Matt Rowell, Noah Anderson and Hayden Young who imposed themselves as potential top ten selections. On review, a number of others were good in patches and outlined their potential including Tom Green, Brodie Kemp, Jeremy Sharp, Trent Bianco and Caleb Serong but none of them put in what you would call an outstanding four quarter game. They did however, place themselves on the “to watch” list. Since Luke Jackson and Kysaiah Pickett have been anointed by the draft mavens as the likely MFC top 10 draft picks, these are my impressions from my rewind of this game. Jackson was one of two Aussie big men who was strong in the ruck, showed some athleticism and copped a knock in the second quarter. However, I wouldn’t go into raptures about him on that performance. Pickett showed flashes of brilliance, was very clean and fast at ground and dribbled a nice goal through at the end. He’ll be an exciting player if he can adapt to the game at the highest level. However, this game didn’t do anything to convince me that either player should be selected at 3 & 10 respectively.

He cant train with the club until Dec 3rd. I've no doubt someone from the club will be with him or close by, he just wont be at the club. With some luck and form, you could change your name to hells bennells next year!

Absolutely Like the Aussie voters we are now gunshy as we enter the room to cast our vote in the ballot box. JT and his team won't do that unless all we have been hearing is smoke and mirrors! I like our continued boldness from left field re Bennell and also this years draft. Those 3 players have the potential to change our attack and X factor our team to another level even past 2018 ultimately. we need this excitement and game changers to change our very much predictable style. Bring on 2020 for a fitter faster and exciting new team style with plenty of run snd carry and with the tools to finish off our good work from up the field.

I suggest you revise your opinion. The draft failures are largely a thing of the past. Since Taylor has been there we have drafted well. Amazing successes from low draft pick choices

We won't be taking Young, and I think people may be surprised by where he potentially ends up being picked.

Thanks for the pics Saty. I really appreciate your efforts and look forward to your pic posts

If that is the case then just take Weightman with 10 and aim for one of Bianco, Taylor or Schoenburg if they get through to 28 DD. If we picked up Schoenburg with 28 i would be ecstatic. Rate him roughly the equal 2nd best 'balanced' mid in the draft alongside the likes of Robertson and McGuiness and just ahead of Rantall. Rantall might turn out to be the pick of the crop with a few extra years in the system though. Very raw but has some explosive getaway speed combined with the ability to steady, lower the vision & hit up short targets on a lead. Schoenburg is doing that also but a little more consistent at this point vs Rantall, probably doesn't quite have the pure burst speed but seems strong through the core and beautifuly balanced with ball in hand.

Not thrilled about going for a ruckman when we are still two star midfielders and two star forwards away from being a top four contender.

I think we are all quietly aware that if we skip Pickett he'll be a Byron Pickett / Cyril Rioli mashup and if we take him he will be basically Chris Yarran only smaller. Similarly, if we somehow get Brodie Kemp it will be because all other clubs let him slide after looking at medical information that confirms he'll never play a full season. On the other hand if we have the chance but don't take him, he's basically Bontempelli and never plays less than 20 games in a season. Luke Jackson is currently in a state of probabalistic flux between being a modern update on Jim Styles or basically a dual-position Lucas Cook. Hayden Young? Pass and he's a more accountable, better-kicking Dyson Heppel. Take? James Strauss II. Is Tom Green the next Patrick Cripps or the next Matthew Bate? Only GWS decision to bid-match will tell. Right. I feel a little better with that out of my system. (oops, as would 'Accepting Mediocrity' who posted the same theme just before me)

I foresee only 2 possible scenarios: 1 - Pass on Jackson and Pickett, watch them become the next Grundy and Betts, while the players we select make Cale Morton look elite. Demonland melts. 2 - Draft Jackson and Pickett, watch them spud it up until they get traded/ de-listed. Then watch Green, Young and Kemp go on to win multiple brownlows, premierships, norm smiths and Nobel Prizes, all while regularly rushing into burning orphanages to save small children. Demonland melts.

One thing for certain is that, no matter who we pick, it won't please everybody. Some posters bemoan that we always take the "safe" option while others are complaining that we might be taking a risk. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'll leave it up to the professionals who are paid to make these decisions.

About time we got Peter Jackson back I say, happy with pick 3.

Hannan has had chronic knee issues, so he is building up, he has gone from walking to light jogging AVB is ticking every box, you can see he is building nicely, foot behaving itself Weid, Jetta and Neitschke are starting full contact in rehab, have some pics Petty about a week behind, moving at full pace in straight line and starting the agility work, after one drill, comment from one of the rehab staff 'we have an athlete here' which brought a wry smile from Petty, he is becoming a big solid unit

There are no draft experts apart from the recruiters. With all due respect to Cal Twomey - who is dramatically improving his reporting and presenting and Matt Balmer as far as I know they don't watch enough footy to be called experts. Maybe the other guys from AFL Draft Central could be close. And Knightmare might qualify ..just. Although the question is how long and how thoroughly has he been at it and what access he gets to players, data, medicals, psych profiles etc. Pickett is seemingly the same height and body shape as Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti who at his physical peak is listed as 171cm and 76-79kg. AMT doesn't seem to struggle to bring down defenders. AMT is 30 goals, 15 goal assists per season and 12 disposals, 4 tackles per game player. When he kicks a goal Essendon win. When he goes goal less Essendon lose. Entering the system at 18 Pickett should reach a higher ceiling on skill and physical development but I'd suggest he's somewhere between an AMT and a Cyril Rioli. Which is about where Dan Rioli fits as well. Pick 10, pick 15, pick 20.. I don't know. Trying to turn Oliver or Viney in to pressure forwards? Nope. For one they are too important in the midfield. But otherwise they don't have the cat like reflexes and natural reading of the play. We can survive with lesser options trained in the defensive skills - Chandler/Bedford, ANB, Spargo, hopefully a fit Hannan but the truly special defensive pressure guys have special movement skills and innate reflexes.

3. Anderson. 10. Kemp. 28. Gould. #ETthedraftwhisperer. #Whatdoesheknow?