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I sent mine back. I told them unless at least one starting 22 player gets hit on the head with a brick by Xmas I won't be able to support such a soft club. Goodwin wrote back asking if it was OK if he got one of his mates in Adelaide to hit Jack Watts with a cricket bat. I'm thinking it over.

More than half the people here judging would be closer to retirement age than football playing age. And it's hard to do 20 good pushup's when you are pickled on cheap goon. But please provide you detailed list of the AFL/VFL players who have ended a boot camp or similar in a wheelchair, as proof that your comments are not more than know-all rhetoric. Professional coaches decided the camp was beneficial, and also made plans around the concerns from the previous year, while our timid show pony playing list ran like pre school tattle-tails to big brother AFLPA to usurp the coaches. Any Melbourne member has an absolute right to be ticked off over this, and the players deserve every ounce of scorn coming their way.

At the Demonland cafe.....

I'm not convinced that was the intent of the players. They are entitled to seek advice from their union.

Its really hard to say without having seen the training program they had scheduled - all I can really say is my body is permanently shattered (feet and back mainly) from doing this style of training regularly over a few fun years. I'd have a guess at saying the players perhaps didn't like the drills involving heavy weight carried in awkward form factors in difficult environments (such as running for km's in a small team with a very heavy log on your shoulders on soft sand). Make no mistake - training like this is designed to break you down physically and mentally. I can see the advantage in this from the mental perspective - but I'm not sure its worth breaking them physically to achieve it. There has to be a better way in the modern era. Whilst I do find this situation to be a bit strange - I'm not concerned about it so much as I've seen the shape the boys have come back to pre season in. They all look as fit as they have ever been - so I guess I trust the fact they made this decision for the right reasons, not because of laziness or anything like that.

So when do we announce our latest sponsor and merge threads? Melbourne Football Club, brought to you by Quit.

This is the sort of story that the club and players has to turn into a positive The club has to respond by being the toughest, hardest, meanest, nastiest team of ex-con tough nuts the league has ever seen. That is the only way forward. And when we are that team, this little nonsense will be put in perspective. The only way out of this is to now train longer harder and smarter than they ever have. Im not too fussed. It’s what we do now that matters

so now we have a situation where: trust between coaches and players has potentially broken down one poster here is querying his membership. bound to be others out in the wider world sponsorship ... great advertising for the club while they chase sponsors like a dog chasing pigeons. "we've thought of a slogan you can use: palmolive gold ... make your hands as soft as your mind! or this one ... hard yakka ... with a shot of our players watching some real hard guys pushing a huge truck up a---- hello? hello? goddam, they hung up" no, we don't care what oppo clubs think, but our players on the ground might not enjoy the extra sledging they are going to get. who wants (eg) clarry spending all his time getting mugged rather than getting the ball? yes, they should be mentally strong enough to rise above that, but (i) are they???? (ii) why hand out free ammo to the enemy. might as well tell mitch starc that you'd prefer it if he didn't bowl anything short to you. this whole affair is not a disaster as such, and may dissolve away to nothing in time. but it is a clear sign that while it is a hell of an uphill struggle to break away from ghosts of the past, we don't seem to be doing it. when accident victims are trying to learn to walk again, they usually don't put a bullet in their own foot.

The players have managed to add extra unnecessary pressure to their year by canceling this training. They must have known that it would give ammunition to all the haters and opposition teams. No amount of flogging on the track will soften what is going to come their way. Media is going to have a field day with it. Good. If anything the feeling of being collectively attacked might have the outcome the club was chasing from this camp. They will have to stick tight and have each others back more than ever.

some people can't recognise a red flag when it's flapping in their face too much kumbaya from some posters let's just hope the issue doesn't suppurate or we are in for another mfc year

You haven’t studied psychology have you...? A boot camp tests a persons reactions when they are put under severe exterior pressure. Our list has no right to say anything is too hard, after the performances of Round 22-23. Why? Because they went to water (again) when a large opportunity beckoned. If Whorethon, Sydney or Jeelong baulked at a Boot Camp it wouldn’t be news for more than a day. But we the MFC have absolutely no credits in the bank. I don’t love this stuff, it makes me [censored] angry that players have over ruled the Senior Coach, who last time i looked was a dam solid player who played in Back to Back Flags. The last MFC Player to do that were in 1959-60 which is before most of us were born... the Senior Coach is in charge last time i checked, anytime the AFLPA needs to be bought in then i consider that a problem that may fester on. If you don’t think its important, good for you, but don’t tell me how to percieve this very brittle club when it keeps making mistakes like this.

Cameron Mooney appeared to give us an almighty dump on SEN this arvo from the snippet I heard. Couldn’t catch it all but mentioned something about 14 players and something about a laughing stock. Situation normal then .... Carry on.

Players shouldn't be subject to macho stuff like this at Christmas time, there is a thing called tapering off. Athletes don't have to be robots for 12 months just to appease their boozy smartphone supporters they have to train smart and be respected. Gone is performance enhancement and gone is the special forces commando mentality.

If our womens side was offered the to do the same camp they would jump at the opportunity.

I'd be lying if I said your sentiments hadn't crossed my mind, because they indeed have. And me 2+ years ago would've thrown my arms in the air and cursed them in a similar vein. But I honestly believe we are past our bruise free footy days. I hope for all of our sakes I'm right, eh? I'd hate to be proven wrong on this (but am, as always, prepared to be).

During Christmas and New Year breaks, things become very slow, in terms of sports news. The likes of "fill-in' breakfast hosts, Maher, Brown and Frawley, will clutch at anything that they can run with, in all their "journalistic" banality and In my view, that is what has happened here. Subscribe to conspiracy theories all you like, but I'll continue to trust in the guys to get the job done.

We have been the laughing stock of the AFL For 10 years I see no reason why we should change now

The players had a meeting and decided they will not be training. Ever.

JH is training but is on a modified program (to manage his back). Certainly nothing serious. I gather is just precautionary rather than as a result of any mishap.

Jack Watts wanted to stay at the Dees. For his entire career. Plainly, he was exited from the club. He handled it with class. Whatever people’s views here about his on-field performances, he (and Trenners) we’re without doubt committed to the MFC. He deserves our respect for this. To now rubbish him shows lack of class. Clearly, he has to make comments such as the comments reported in that article. In fact, I expect he actually needs to believe it himself from a psychological perspective - to not think this would probably prolong the disappointment of having been exited from the club. I also expect that, confirmation bias here aside, the betting odds will reflect the accuracy of his statement as to which club is closer to the flag.

Didn't we get canned by the media this time last year when Tyson and Salem got injured? amusing how one year we are apparently pushing people too far, yes this year we are soft again. Anything for a story I guess! Also like to add that I would be amazed if our players went to the AFLPA without consulting our player leadership group. We have no idea who from our playing list went to the AFLPA, but hypothetically if it included Viney, Jones, Lewis, Hibberd etc.... would we all be saying these players are soft? Surely this is more a case of our players wanting to get the most out of the preseason, and maybe the focus on fitness and skills is perhaps more beneficial than sleep deprivation and pushing beyond normal limits and reserves? One final thing that I note is that unlike last year we seem to have a few more players recovering from injury or post season surgery... so perhaps this is a prudent thing to do. Anyway, mountain... mole hill and I don't really pay much notice to Brown or Frawley's comments in the media.

Jones doesn’t have Goodwins phone number? Jones can not have a comfortable chat with the coach? Jones can not front the coach on the players behalf? Jones goes behind the coaches back to some players organisation to approach the coach at the players behest. The position of either one of Jones or Goodwin is untenable, that’s the only clear outcome here.

I reckon this camp last year contributed to our injury toll big time. You can not compare an NRL player to an AFL player they are a completely different beast.

you seriously think a 2 night/3 day (non) boot camp was going to leave the players "being physically broken"? a camp you know nothing of the specifics. a camp that goody assured them had extra safeguards from last year'camp storm nrl are now on their third real bootcamp in a row. they must have a callous disregard for the h&s of their players

I'd take your comments more seriously if we weren't, as always on here, speculating on trash news articles with little facts to base our opinions on. Know-all rhetoric? Bloody hell, who took the jam out of your doughnut today Turkish? This comment was (quite obviously) not a matter-of-fact statement. Interestingly enough, you've taken it for that for some reason. For your benefit, I'll make it simpler for you - the players should be entitled to enjoying a Christmas break without being physically broken. While we are at it - please provide proof of this incredibly tough guy comment: "our timid show pony playing list ran like pre school tattle-tails to big brother AFLPA to usurp the coaches." I will accept verified transcripts of all conversations had between players, coaches and the union only.

I would have prefered that players had spoken face to face with Goodwin. If that had happened this wouldn’t be an issue. But the AFLPA were bought in

Possibly, but a bit of wishful thinking sure beats assuming every little thing that looks bad is an omen of forthcoming disaster.

Sure, but it takes more than cranky old armchair critic on the internet to understand what these players go through physically. The guys are entitled to enjoy a Christmas break without being in a wheelchair.

Does not take a hardcock to work out which is the softest team in the AFL.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bay-survivor-2017.1181923/page-49#post-53757680

That seems unnecessarily harsh. I'm not an apologist, I just see the gravity of the situation differently.

Bon voyage.

Sort of related to the above discussion, while the club has truly become much more professional in the last few years with so much to admire, I think it is still a long way behind in its use of digital communications. (And this from a guy who doesn't use Facebook.) Its use of Twitter is spasmodic, its website is not kept properly up to date and the app has no real value. Digital marketing is an extremely valuable tool and it's an area the club needs to improve significantly.

If you take what the coach says at face value, it seems to me the players have done what we want them to do...take responsibility for getting the best out of themselves. However, if you take the afl.com.au article at face value, it seems strange that the decision to pull the pin was taken so late and that there was a need to involve the AFLPA. (I'm not against the AFLPA, but wonder why it was necessary to go there.) On balance, I would rely more on what the coach said (even if he was spinning it) than what has been published on the AFL's website.

Weak players and weak members?

He was training last Friday. I didn't notice he was hampered in any way but I also didn't know he was supposed to be carrying anything so maybe I didn't look closely enough. For the casual observer, he was fine.

Surely this one matter could not rank high in the list of factors one considers in deciding to support the football club? None of us like the way this was played out in public, but hopefully we can move on and more importantly so can the club.

He will be back soon. its not serious. (I dont know anything)

What a level headed bloke. Hope he gets a shot early in the season.

Both my missus and I recieved the AGM meeting letter and the proxy voter form in the mail about a month ago. I dont remember getting anything electronic at all though...

I don't see anything wrong with Watt's comments either. He is playing a competitive sport and no doubt has been told he needs to be at his absolutely best to gain a spot at Port. Watt's should believe Port are a better chance than any side to win a flag. It takes a team to win a flag and Port as a side need to hear that Watt's is fully on board. It sounds as though he is fully invested. If it were a former opposition player coming to Melbourne and saying things similar to what Jack said - then I would be pretty stoked.

Sleep deprived during a two day course? FM how precious are they?

Can everyone get over the idea that it was about a boot camp. That's not the germane point. It might as well have been a scrabble tournament that they pulled out of. For fear of concentrating too hard. The point is, having finished the season in the lamest possible way, they have been asked to challenge themselves. And, just like in round 23, and in countless instances before that, they flubbed it. The players were asked to challenge themselves and they flubbed it.

The issue isn't whether or not you think that Boot Camps are just macho/bravo BS. The big issue is that the Leadershp Players didn't have the balls to sit down with the Football Dept and address their concerns, instead of running to the Players Association. I can't think of another instance where a sporting team has basically raised OH&S as a reason for not partaking in a training excercise. It's embarassing for the club, and I really feel for Goodwin.

Some would say Macca is his mentor. But Macca's people management skills aren't too flash either and he is part of the day to day coaching panel so not always able to be fully objective. I've said elsewhere, I think Goodwin needs a Neil Balme, Chris Fagan (@hawthorn) type who oversees the footy department and challenges him on major team/player related decisions. Right now I feel the checks and balances on our coaches aren't as strong as they could be. We have Mahoney, but his role seems more admin/liason than what Balme did for Thompson/Scott/Hardwick and Clarkson and Fagan did for Clarkson. No coincidence for me that those two guys have presided over about 8-10 of the premierships 12 years.

I guess we could probably revisit the topic after last year’s camp where Salem & Tyson were injured & read “what a waste of time.....how unnecessary.....shouldn’t have had that type of camp ”etc ....comments there were. I remember when Collingwood with all their money were doing “cutting edge” camps in hyperbaric chambers overseas & Port had the guru fitness guy ....I could go on...fact is they didn’t win a premiership. If the players, who ultimately only play to win a premiership, feel this camp doesn’t enhance those aspirations....why wouldn’t you listen. It is their bodies that do the work so I don’t see it as a “ weakness” I admire the maturity to address what they feel is not right. Maybe if the Essendon players had addressed their concerns over the amount of needles they were receiving we wouldn’t have the “drugs saga” that stymied our game for so many years...let’s not be too quick too judge

Whoo boy nice heated discussion going on here Before I start telling the whole story let me say that some of you are severely underestimating just how harsh and grueling the camp from last year was I'm not going to use names or specific numbers for privacy reasons Now, last Monday Goody told the playing group that the camp would be happening again this year from 18th-20th before breaking for Christmas. Immediately quite a number of players where very much against this for a variety of reasons (including players from the Leadership group), so a group approached the AFLPA to ask how to handle the situation. The MFC staff caught wind of this, so Goodwin gave a presentation last Thursday explaining what they wanted to get from the camp, and explaining that this time they will be bringing a larger amount of medical staff and ensure players were well fed (apparently the food/nutrition last year wasn't the best) Even after this talk, still quite a high number of players were very unhappy about having to do the course again. So over the weekend the Leadership group and AFLPA met with MFC Coaches/high level staff to discuss the situation, reportedly getting quite feisty at times. The club did have the official final say on the matter, and chose to call the camp off. Monday morning Goodwin gathered all the players and told them the camp was being called off due to the high number of players who raised concerns with it, and he said he wasn't angry but very disappointed because he felt they had given enough information to the players that their health and safety concerns were going to be handled appropriately. However throughout the day the players could tell Goodwin and some other coaches were indeed pretty unhappy with the playing group (when you work with people for long enough you can tell pretty clearly when they are not in the best mood) I've got no confirmation of this, but I would assume the three days of training next week before the Christmas break are probably going to make up for the lack of physical and mental work lost from having cancelled the camp. I do agree with a number of you that it is a bad look, especially when the club is in the finals drought we find ourselves in. But I also see where the players are coming from, there is a higher chance of injuries and I sure as s*** wouldn't want to do the camp, and I was in the Army for 5 years. Take from that what you will, its a pretty crappy situation overall.

It isn't about the training options for the last few days before Christmas. It is about the poor communication between players/leaders and footy staff. It is about taking players out of their comfort zones. And more importantly it is about not allowing players to call the shots. Slippery slope right there. So what now - anytime a player(s) don't want to do so something, go when it is their turn or whatever, they cry 'too hard boss'!!

Big time deja vu happening forme - players cancelled training with Dean Bailey (ref Jim Stynes book). Look where that got us! On any level this does not sit right: This camp would have taken weeks/months to schedule and organise. Were the players not consulted/told about it till last week? Doesn't sound like two-way communication was happening. Did the leadership group not sass out the players earlier? How did it come to this. Other clubs walk the Kokada track - now that is gruelling. Referring to Tyson and Salem last year is irrelevant. Injuries can happen at any time - just ask Petracca who did his ACL simply going for a mark. But we go weak at the knees at a few days at a boot camp. Sheesh! We finally ditched the 'bruise free football' label. But last year we proved the 'mentally weak' label over and over again, right up to round 23. Respect lost with 17 other teams Club talks about being ruthless. Given the chance to walk the talk and do something really tough the players back off. I'm staggered the club allowed the players to call the shots. So much for Goodwin's tough talk. My expectations for 2018 have been jolted - backwards.

I am still stoked we landed Fritsch. I thought at beginning of trade night, if we walked away with Fritsch I'd be happy, anything more is a bonus. I don't know much about the others. I have only seen Fritsch play a handful of times - but he looked impressive. I remember watching Mitch Hannan play most of his games the year we drafted him, and I was happy we landed him, he did it against men, and his frame wasn't a limitation. I don't expect Fritsch frame to limit him at all. I think he may play early. There is nothing about his game that suggests he has to put on size (at least in respect of contributing at AFL level - size will naturally come in time). So its a good get for mine. Hope he does well.