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Woo hoo, Daylight Saving, an hour closer to trade period, bring it on.

100% agree.... Trade him, don't trade him - but keep it inhouse Goodwin's 'not so subtle' discussion about JW, on Channel 7, was unnecessary Shut up, Simon

Mate I don't believe the rumour I heard. I don't think trading Watts......or should I say kicking him out is a positive move. Viney, Jones, Gawn and Watts are the soul of the club in my opinion. Let's say we get pick 25 - 30 for Watts. That seems to be there abouts what the commentators are thinking. So I ask the question are we better off with Watts or pick 25 - 30? We are not rebuilding, Watts is coming into his prime age for a tall. We are better off keeping Watts. Our team is weaker without him.

I have the answer to all the angst, don't trade or delist any fan favourite. Enjoy the continued success.

While I agree the public comments seem unnecessary, and I felt similar about Stringer and what Beveridge was saying, don't think for a second the other 17 clubs don't know what's what with Watts. I know someone plugged into AFL circles and the gossip and stories that fly around is like an edition of footy New Idea. Everyone knows everyone else's business. They know the gaps in the innuendo that we see in the press, as do the journos who ask the questions. So when I hear officials or coaches say these sorts of things publicly, I don't think they're so naive that they get caught out by the question. I think it's most likely an attempt to manage the fans and potential backlash - and to trigger the sort of fan conversation we are seeing here while inserting enough about the club's perspective into the public arena. Footy clubs know their supporters are emotional and irrational, and have attachments to players irrespective of what that player is or isn't really doing. And it's part of the club's job to manage their supporters as supporters contribute to the revenue top line. But you know what contributes most to the revenue top line? Success. If those comments truly harmed the trade value of the player, it wouldn't happen. If the football department bowed to fan pressure instead of doing what they think will move the club closer to success, the club will go nowhere.

Sue, maybe Goodwin believes that Watts doesn't display elite behaviours on the training track. And I'll give you an example. In Roos' 2nd year, I went to half a dozen preseason training sessions. Watts, Vince and Howe were all in the rehab group. Vince and Howe were restricted to running laps. Watts was on the sidelines. Vince and Howe would run at a decent pace then slow to a walk. Every session, Vince would have his head down and focussed on his running, oblivious to requests from supporters over the fence. Howe would be doing the same despite supporters having a light-hearted dig at him being a snob for ignoring them. Watts was on the sidelines chatting to supporters and training staff, or lairising by trying to kick banana shots at goal. Now, on face value there is no harm in what Watts was doing as he was unable to train. But for me it was symbolic of his mindset to football. Vince always struck me as a lair, but my opinion of him changed. And his professionalism on the track is probably the reason why he's been re-signed for another year. The FD see him as a good influence on the young players. Roos probably let Watts slide because he was a talented footballer like Watts, and the game came easy to him. Goodwin on the other hand was picked up in the preseason draft, and had to work hard to make it. As supporters, we don't see everything that happens in the preseason. Goodwin, Jones and Jack Viney are all cut from the same jib, and missing the finals probably hurt them immensely. Maybe they've said enough is enough, and we won't tolerate players who don't display elite behaviours, regardless of talent and potential.

DL whipping boy. Straight swap.

If Goodwin said that, plenty on here would say he is slagging off at the players and making it an us and them. Not an all in together team. He has separated the Coaches from the Players and blamed them exclusively. I didn't think the Crows coaching was great yesterday. However, Pyke was slagging off at the players and it was a them and us statement. Poor from a coach. What he could have said instead, was maybe " the Tigers had better effort than "US" today, or "OUR" effort wasn't as good as the Tigers.

SF, you have made that same comment over and over and over again in this and various other threads. It is getting tiresome. Can you please find a new tune to play. And btw, I am one of those Watts defenders!! But I haven't come out of the closet - proudly a supporter since the beginning. But sadly, I can see the writing on the wall and no amount of wishing otherwise nor banging my head against said wall will keep him a Demon. Like 'Akum', 'Jumbo Returns' and a few other stalwart Watts' fans on here, I have finally accepted he is gone. It will take some time to get used to and I will be in mourning for a while. I hear what you say about him but I don't like seeing Dee fans relentlessly tear down our players. They wear our colours and I love them for it. I take little joy from an exceptionally sad outcome for all involved. I genuinely wish him every success at his new club. Bye Jack

Watched him closely at the ground and he played reasonably well considering the cards he was dealt. Tagged all day by Townsend who belted in to him with elbows off the ball non stop. Lever often positioned himself in front of Riewoldt's space and took away Riewoldt's influence on the game. Talia couldn't go with Jack on a hard lead so it was important. Townsend would hold Lever non stop to prevent him jumping at the contest. The only time Lever returned the favour with a little tug of his shorts he was penalised a soft free for a goal. Mopped up well under pressure and didn't fumble and had some aggressive kicks, went at 80% DE. Still not sure how you can project him as a key defender with any confidence but I've got doubt he's a super smart football who can play the interceptor role.

astbury takes the #1 forward as a rule for the tiggas, allowing rance to zone off...exactly like lever will (hopefully) do for us

So he should 'go' for never being involved? That's some next level thinking right there...

Jack has had 157 games to demonstrate to the footy world to prove that he is a high quality , consistent dangerous forward and put the issue beyond doubt like say Cameron , Lynch, Pavlich etc. Trouble is he hasn't at Melbourne and on the basis of the number of games he's had seems unlikely to do this for us. An opportunity for a fresh start might be just the thing to spur him on and give us the chance to do some fine tuning. ie Opportunity for both parties. Honestly don't see the need for any wrist slashing on this. Surely the coaching and recruiting staff reserve the right to make appropriate football decisions that they feel is in the best interest of all. After all the buck stops with them and they ultimately stand or fall on the back of them

Do you think the Coach deserves the name you have given him? We won more games this year than any year in the last 10 and were 10 points off playing in the finals.

It's interesting they've chosen to single out that contest. I thought it was a clear free kick to Brown for a hold of the jumper.

There was an expectation of greatness with Jack (an assumption in many cases) but many are now at a point where they want to hang on to Jack because they still believe he can be great (or at least very good) Conversely, there are any number of people who want to discard Jack because he didn't come up their expectations. B- or C+ just isn't going to cut it. It's one side against the other and because of that, we don't see a lot of the middle ground. Judge the player, not the number has always been my motto. That way, even a 3rd round rookie has the same chance of succeeding as does a top-end draft pick. Any decent coach along with his FD would judge all their players that way. My thoughts on Watts are based on completely ignoring his draft pick number. He's of value as an outside runner who can use his pace and finishing skills to help a team. But even as an outside runner, he has some glaring weaknesses. Plenty before him have been like that so there's a place for players like Watts. I doubt it will be with us though. And I'll be neither devastated nor completely happy with that outcome.

goodes was a superstar watts is a serviceable afl player, at times

Top post. I was in Primary School when Melbourne won their last Premiership. I have now retired. I went through secondary school and my whole working life never having the satisfaction of bragging to my mates on a Monday that my team 'won the flag'. I have inflicted upon my 5 children, 3 grandchildren and my wife with the pain of being a Melbourne supporter also. I have often felt guilty about that and 3 of my kids have been lost to football altogether, I believe because of years of humiliation. The club has even cruelly made me a supporter of Crystal Palace in the EPL because of a vague link between the 2 clubs in the 80's (hence my pseudonym). Palace currently sit last in EPL 0-7 not having kicked a goal for the season and having had 17 kicked against them. So you see I have a PhD in Disappointment. I visit Demonland so I know I'm not alone in my pain. I read comments that I can truly empathise with in the moment but detest in the cold light of day. I laugh at myself and others that can/do/have bestowed various players with the title of champion, dud, gun, plodder, gutless, slow etc etc. depending upon how they played on any given day. I have threatened and come close to giving them and AFL away because it just hurts too much sometimes. But I haven't - 38 years consecutive MFC membership. A friend asked me once that they appreciate the attraction of AFL but couldn't understand the fanaticism of club supporters to their team. I hadn't thought about it myself but found myself answering that it's one of the few constants in life. Friends, partners, work mates and loved ones may come and go, whether we want them too or not. Our football team may too - but it will be our choice. We may abandon them through frustration but they will go on. Our fear is that if we do then we won't experience the ultimate satisfaction when success finally arrives. We will have put ourselves through decades of heartache without experiencing the moment of bliss we crave for and frankly deserve. Read Long Walk to Freedom to fully appreciate true suffering and patience. Remember the incomparable joy and ecstasy on the faces of Bulldogs fans last year and now the Tigers. They thought their day would never come too. We need to have the faith and unwavering commitment we demand of our team, especially when things seem darkest - as they did for the Bulldogs and Tigers. Go Dees!

He had a tough game in the GF, but so did many of his teammates. The way we want to play will suit Lever superbly. We play a zone defence and we need players who can actually zone off, support their teammates and effect either a spoil or a mark. Lever is already one of the best in the competition at this. We can still have Oscar, Frost and even T Mac playing the key defensive role with Lever roaming as a support player. It will be absolutely invaluable and he will save us goals week after week. I don't want to pay a steep price for him, but I'm confident that whatever we do pay he will pay back ten fold in the coming years.

It seems Goodwin and McCartney are on the same page. That's enough for me.

Give it a break mate...it's a bit colourful saying Jack is being "kicked out of the club" Stop casting aspersions on Jack based on what you say are unsubstantiated rumours. Fair enough if the club want to move him on based on his footy output and/or the ability in their mind to trade up...but don't add something else to the mix then backtrack by talking unsubstantiated rumours from outside the club.

I simply enjoy good footy. I can stroll down to the local ground and watch U16, or stay and watch the local seniors. Other times I go back "home" to Maldon and watch them play. The Tiges played brilliant footy. Like many others, I am sick to the death of the yellow and black references, the man love for Martin, the centre-staging of Mick Molloy etc... But the footy Richmond played yesterday is what makes me watch a game. Fierce, free, skilled. I am a huge fan of the Crows footy in 2017. I loved watching them. But their highly skilled running game was torn to pieces by Richmond's team football. And that is what I like about our current coaching emphasis. We are not building on the back of Hogan, Gawn, Petracca, Oliver etc... We are building a squad of players who are soldiers filling a post. There are 22 posts that make up a single team, that is being instructed to play from the contest out. Coach one year into his leadership. A number of application glitches to work out, and some young players to mature, but our emphasis on team footy is a major step in the right directoon. Can't wait to see what we produce in 2018.

From a Crows mate: why don't we get Watts to play the Lever role for half the price and better kick?

This quote says a lot to me from Don Pyke after yesterday's game. "One of the things that is very hard from a coaching viewpoint is to provide effort," Pyke said. "The players are responsible for effort. "We try and encourage that, we try and demand that.

I was trying to delete an earlier post which was both unfunny and overly sarcastic. And this is all I managed to achieve. I'll be on the trade table too soon if performances like this continue. ....... For all the differing views on Watts (and I respect the competing views), this has been very poorly handled by the club. The discussion should not have been so openly had through the media. It lacks class.

That is what has upset me as much as Jack going. It is one thing to be bagged by the media and fans. Totally different when the coach and captain keep putting your weaknesses out there without balancing it with your strengths. Both played the 'bad cop' but I can't see who the 'good cop' was. Can't help but think they stamped his card fairly early in the season. So its fairly difficult for someone to give their all with that blowtorch from the inside. That is no excuse for Jack for not following team rules. I just think that resilience (for which he is renowned) can quickly turn to apathy (which seems to have happened) when relationships break down. So he's gone. But in my book Goodwin and Jones have done themselves no favours with their negative public stance.

Why does the club owe "loyalty" to a very well payed player who's lack of application has had him dropped at various points by his past four coaches, and being on the verge of being traded for peanuts compared to his No#1 draft cost..?

To those who think Richmond has the 2018 flag sewn up already, how short are your memories? The Dogs were young and exciting and did things no one knew how to counter and then failed to even make this year's finals. And to those who can't see how we can climb the ladder next year, just look at Richmond's rise from 13th to premiers. Yes, Martin went to another level but the biggest difference between them this year and last is that their bottom 6 are markedly better. Players like Astbury and Vlastuin took their game from below-average to well above it. They played like a 22, rather than a team with 6 stars and a bunch of others. One common link between the Dogs last year and Richmond this year, though, is workrate. Both sides were based on consistent running (the Dogs with their run and carry, Richmond with their pressure). Let's hope our players were watching. The easiest thing for us to fix, before anything else, is our mentality towards competing for every minute of every quarter.

Yes he did. He dropped him. You can spin it however you like, but he was still dropped due to poor form. It's the same old chestnut every time. And prove to us how Goodwin has 'degraded' him, which is such a ridiculous statement I don't even know why I am acknowledging it.

Dictator Koch won't be happy. Beautiful.

53 for me.

I'd love to know what your definition of "heart and soul" is? Popular with the fans because he's always accommodating for a selfie or autograph? Organizes the end of season trip or golf day? And you say that Watts is coming into his prime age for a tall. Problem is, he doesn't play as a tall. I'll say it again, Jack Watts is a talent. But there are only so many times that you can go to the well and hope that he has a good season. I can live with pick 25-30 for a player who has had 1 good season in 9.

think we can all agree on that without argument

It's become absolutely clear that Watts is being kicked out of the club. There may be more to the story than his attitude and intensity. I have heard rumours but only from people outside the club that are completely unsubstantiated. What ever the reasons, he has been shown the door. Unfortunately under such circumstances we cannot expect good trade value. I am a Watts fan and find this a difficult pill to swallow.

Still another how many months to the start of next season for us and it can't come quick enough. I think some of the stuff posted this off season is more ridiculous than anything I've seen, we made more sense when we had a common enemy...CS, Neeld, Pendergast etc. Where we finished this season is not because Jones was captain or Misson in charge of fitness. It's not leadership, or in the head. Previous drafting has been a problem but that's been done to death, we know that and it's in the process of being rectified. That's why we've had to recruit form outside, not ideal but thats the best we can do. This group will grow together and so will the leadership and experience. We're not trading big Max, Hogan is not on the trade table... We got close but weren't good enough this year, pretty simple really. Disappointing, yes but that's how it is. Some of our future gun players, the ones that win games were either not on the ground (Hogan) or still a bit up and down and learning the caper (Petracca).. Our defence needed bolstering (Lever)... We really missed Jones for those weeks he was out despite what those who seem to want to create another reality think and of course Viney was missed. Like it or not we are a young team, I know we hate to hear it but that's what we are. Our 'A' graders and elite talents are not there yet, they will be. When they reach that level and we start losing games we should win then I will agree we have leadership issues and head problems but we're not there yet. Fire away...I know this is not a popular view. It's easier to throw rocks than accept the reality.

To be perfectly honest, Lever doesn't excite me, but I am a forward and have issues rating defenders... One thing that does excite me as a coach is when you get to take a burden off a player and release them and that is what I see Lever doing for Hibberd. If we can get Hibberd 30m further up the ground when he is gathering the footy and have to be come across and provide help all the time - he will be transcendant. Might take some attention of Hunt too...

This reads like a Trump tweet.

I can't believe so many people have a problem with Jack Watts. I don't see him as a problem, but i don't see him as a 22 game a season player. However Jack loves the club and can be a match winner.

Now I understand how annoying I must sound when I post about O-Mac..

I don’t think enough credit has been given to Terry Wallace laying the foundations for this premiership with his 30 year plan ... what a visionary

Garry Lyon is a club legend. He is no angel, and is far from perfect, but the problems facing our club have nothing to do with him!!!

They got their midfield right by bringing in Caddy & Prestia, 2 tough inside mids to do the 'extraction', for want of a better word. This allowed Dusty & Cotchin to play where they're much more dangerous - in taking the ball away from clearances, and being link men through the corridor. They worked out their defence, got the right mix of players in the right positions, and were able to play them together for just about the whole season. They had very few injuries or suspensions. They developed into a really tight unit. And they played one on one, not zone, for maximum pressure. Didn't they hit upon the small forwards by accident when 2 of their 3 tall forwards got injured in the same game? They discovered that was the way to create forward pressure. They also do smart things like kick into space, and run the ball in waves, rather than kick, through the corridor. And they mix up their forward thrusts - they aren't predictable. Adelaide were very predictable. Hardwick clearly sat himself down and had a real think about how to build the side. Yes, they were lucky with the draw and with injuries. But a lot of the credit has to go to Hardwick. And Neil Balme is the best of the best as footy manager.

Thank you for reminding me, as if I wasn't aware of this. [censored] it

The last 9 years proves he just doesnt have it in him to be a contested beast. When other players tackle, Jack prefers a nice cuddle. Marshmallows are harder. Beautiful kick, but thats not enough for the coaches any more. He finds hunger for the contest or he finds a new home. Thats just the way it is. Bout time.

I reckon Seven manipulated the audio to reduce the booing; it was deafeningly loud at the ground and outweighed the cheering by a substantial margin.

It's a shame the people rarely describe Jack as having a ferocious attack on the ball, or as a manic tackler or even committed to the contest. He'd need to change his spots to be able to be an asset in a final or GF.

So much crap being spun here. Form: Watts had a great 2016. In first half of 2017, clearly in our best 6-7. Took on ruck role. Starred in 3-4 games. Had a great QB game. Sealed victory! His hamstring injury led to 3 weeks out and loss of form. One of the best in round 23. Many many others were rubbish. why being traded? I think it is salary cap related. Goodwin thinks he can jettison Watts. Neeld killed the club culture. Did we learn anything. Be careful here!! Tigers showed results of backing in your loyalty

It won't make a difference. He's ten years into his career now. Are you watching the game today? PRESSURE PRESSURE PRESSURE. I can't fathom how anyone could be in the Watts camp. His elite kick is worthless. On Grand Final he will be absolutely owned by someone who wants it more. We need to stop with this crap of keep fan favourites who have "elite skills". You can't have elite skills if you don't chase and tackle. They're non-negotiables in this game. Ffs!

Watts is gone because well get something for him now but nothing in 2, years. Also he's contracted so the club holds the aces. Grow up folks this game is about Premierships. Even the players are over Watts. Popular clubman my arse