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I'd trade him for something we need. If he was in some way packaged in the Lever or Gaff scenario I'd do it in a heartbeat because we'd be better off. I'd not trade him for simply (say) "pick 25" and take that pick to the draft. For all Watts has his weaknesses and frustrates he also has his strengths, and they are significant. You may get something with a pick or you may not. It would most likely take years to mature. I don't believe we are at the stage of trading out our experienced and good players (which Watts is) to develop talent down the line. At some stage you move beyond development and have a go. As Goodwin says, we are now out of our bubble and there is expectation around the Club. Trading Watts for something that may be good in 4 years doesn't do it for me. If Watts does go there will be a part of me that is very disappointed.

From:http://m.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-09-06/vfl-player-review-qualifying-final Angus Brayshaw: He had 36 disposals, including 23 contested possessions, 12 clearances and 11 inside 50s. Angus started slowly, but when we needed someone to stand-up, Gus was put in the middle of the ground and he won clearances. I thought he was best-on-ground, which was a credit to him. He really stood-up and sensed he had to do something for his team, so I couldn’t speak highly enough of his game This guy provided a rare shining light towards the end of the season and let's hope this is a sign of things to come. Really thought we lacked another quality genuine mid this year and Gus could well be the answer to that in 2018.

What does Gaff not being a contested ball winner have to do with him being of value to the team? He covers more ground than any of our players, finds more ball than any of our players except Oliver, and has more score involvements than any of our mids. He lead the league for kicks, effective kicks and has high metres gained. He's a top 5 draft pick who developed well and met expectations placed on him. He's been an All Australian wingman and was 4th in the Brownlow last year. I get he's not a contested beast, but realistically he sh*ts on most players on our list and is exactly what we need to bring balance to our slow overly inside midfield. Anyone saying he's no good or no value to our team has little understanding of football. Would swap a first round pick for him and run if we got he chance. Proven quality in an area of need. Chase him hard Dees.

What does a Collingwood supporter use for protection during sex? A bus shelter.

From Puntroadend.com.......adjust each joke as required: Just to lightening the mood. An Essendon fan, a Collingwood fan and a Richmond fan were all in Saudi Arabia, sharing a smuggled crate of booze. All of a sudden Saudi police rushed in and arrested them. The mere possession of alcohol is a severe offence in Saudi Arabia, so for the terrible crime of actually being caught consuming the booze, they were sentenced to death! However, after many months and with the help of very good lawyers, they were able to successfully appeal their sentence down to life imprisonment. By a stroke of luck, it was a Saudi national holiday the day their trial finished, and the extremely benevolent Sheikh decided they could be released after receiving just 20 lashes each of the whip. As they were preparing for their punishment, the Sheikh suddenly said, "It is my first wife's birthday today, and she has asked me to grant each of you one wish before your whipping." The Essendon fan was first in line (he had drunk the least), so he thought about this for a while and then said, "Please tie a pillow to my back This was done, but the pillow only lasted 10 lashes before the whip went through. The Essendon fan had to be carried away bleeding and crying with pain when the punishment was done. The Collingwood fan was next up (he had almost finished an entire six pack by himself), and after watching the scene, said "Alright! Please fix two pillows on my back." But even two pillows could only take 15 lashes before the whip went through again, sending the Collingwood fan out crying like a little girl. The Richmond fan was the last one up (he had finished off the crate), but before he could say anything, the Sheikh turned to him and said, "You support the greatest team in the world, your supporters are some of the best and most loyal fans in the world. For this, you may have two wishes!" "Thank you, your Royal Highness," the Richmond fan replies. "In recognition of your kindness, my first wish is that you give me not 20, but 100 lashes". "Not only are you an honourable, handsome and powerful man, you are also very brave," the Sheikh says with an admiring look on his face. "If 100 lashes is what you desire, then so be it. And, your second wish....what is it to be?" "Tie the Collingwood fan to my back." How do you know you are a Collingwood supporter: 1. A Halloween pumpkin has more teeth than your wife does. 2. You let your twelve-year-old daughter smoke at the dinner table in front of her kids. 3. You've been married three times and still have the same in-laws. 4. Jack Daniel's makes your list of "most admired people." 5. You wonder how service stations keep their restrooms so clean. 6. Someone in your family once died right after saying: "Hey, watch this...." 7. You think Dom Perignon is a Mafia leader. 8. A ceiling fan once ruined your wife's hairdo. 9. You think the last words of Advance Australia Fair are: "Carn the Pies." 10. You lit a match in the bathroom and your house exploded, right off its wheels. 11. The market value of your car goes up and down, depending on how much petrol is in it. 12. You have to go outside to get something from the fridge. 13. One of your kids was born on a pool table. 14. You can't get married to your sweetheart because there's a law against it. 15. You think "loaded dishwasher" means your wife is drunk. 16. Your toilet paper has page numbers on it. 17. Your front verandah collapses and kills more than five dogs. For more....they have 12 pages worth....go to http://puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=2126.0 You will have to sign up to the site to get access.

You never miss a chance do you. For all you're in denial Oscar has played some very good footy for us. He's not Lever, we get that, but he's got a lot of excellent attributes.

Note: Jack did not play rounds 14, 15, 16, 17 so its a bit rich to say he went missing in one of the most crucial periods for the MFC in the last 5 years. He wasn't there so find someone else to blame for the team's form lapse! He came back and played injured for rounds 18, 19, 20 and was then dropped. So some facts please... ...Maybe we lost form because Jack didn't play in that period and the team missed him.

A week on and now that I've come round and the anger has subsidised I honestly feel that missing the finals in some cruel, twisted, f%%ked up way we are better off in the long run missing out the way we did.. It hurts so much because we have been so starved of success & finals but this will be the springboard for this club and playing group to launch into an assault at a premiership. From the board to the coaches to the playing group we will all be better off for it.. Goodwin & the coaching staff will learn from this and go away as he said and will find new ways to get better, come up with innovations to take this club to the next level not only to make finals but to do some damage when we get there. For the players it will be a lesson that every little thing matters and you can't pick & choose when you want to put in effort, it has to be every training session, every game, every quarter, every contest... Everything! If we snuck into the 8, the way we were going we'd be one & done and the coaching staff & players may not have had this view and think everything's fine and we're on the right track, it'll just happen.. The lessons learnt from the ending of this season are invaluable

It’s a bright new day in a Collingwood supporter household. Baz, Raelene, and children Shaz and Daz are gathered around the breakfast table eating left over McDonald’s. Baz says: "Son. Today is a very special day." Daz: "Did we win the premiership again?" "Um. Prob'ly. I'll check wif Dicko. But what I mean is, today it's ya tenf birfday. Rae, get me anuvver beer before I belt ya one." "Is it Dad? I fought last year wuz me tenf birfday?" "Woz it? Might o' been, ya know. I can't count past ten. I know there's some uvver numbers. There's 35 ... and there's 42 ... I fink there's more than that too." "Does that mean I hafta start goin' ta school, dad?” "School? School? School is fer smartarses an' Melbun supporters! No child o' mine is goin' ta school! Nor you neither, Shaz. No, son, it's ya tenf birfday so today yez get to go out and buy ... yer very own Collingwood jumper!" "Like Shaz's?" "Yes son. Just like Shaz's." "I fought we shoplifted hers?" "No son. Not a Collingwood jumper. The f***ing rozzers can come and take most fings we got but they can never take away our Collingwood jumpers if we got ‘em a hunnerd percent legal." "You’re real smart dad. But where's we gunna get the money from?" "From this wallet what I nicked from some bloke at the train station yestdee." "Geez dad, you fink of everyfink!" "Thanks son. That's why I’m head o' the household and why I get to wear Nathan Buckley’s number on me back. All right, I got a big day ahead o' me. First I gotta go down the pub, then Centrelink, then I’ve gotta go to the track and sort through the left over race tickets. Then down to the Westpac centre to see if I can spot Eddie McGuire going in. Then the pub again. I'll see yez tanight in ya new footy jumper!" Off goes Baz and off go the rest to the nearest Big W. Raelene says: "Awrite, son. Pick out a jumper. Take yer time. Me and Shaz'll be over tryin' to nick a iphone." Daz checks out all the AFL jumpers. Shaz comes back. "Did ya pick one yet?" "Yep. I want this one." It's a Carlton jumper. Shaz can't believe it. "Ya little [censored]! Wodja pick that one for?" She spits on him. "Mum! Look at what Daz chose!" Mum comes over. "Yes, yes, what's all the-- what the f*** is this?" "But mum, I want this jumper!" "Why you ungrayfuss ... ungratesel .... ungr .... ya little [censored]!" She slaps him hard and pulls out some chunks of hair. "I wish I'd shoplifted a umbrella so's I could poke ya in the guts wiv it! Just wait till yaw father hears about this!" They go home in silence. Dad gets home. "Awrite, where's young Darren? Where's me little champ? Rae, get me a beer before I belt ya one." Daz appears in his Carlton jumper. Baz nearly goes into shock. He stares for a full minute before he speaks in a cold, low voice. "You barztid. You f***in' barztid." Reflexes kick in and he punches Daz in the guts, and while he's bent over, knees him in the teeth, knocking out a few. Daz collapses to the floor and mum, dad and Shaz lay the boots in. Eventually they've had enough and stand back. Dad says, panting: "I hope yez have learned something, son." "Yes, dad, I have" "And what's that?" "I’ve only barracked for Carlton for one day, and already I hate youse Collingwood c***s!"

IMO a definately NO! He was in very good form pre his injury. He struggled on return which has been known to happen to a lot of good players.

Hipwood was gifted games and averaged 8 disposals and 3 marks a game. Weideman would have had similar if not better stats if he played all year. His exposed form shows he has no issue crashing packs and bringing the ball to ground he just needs to get to more contests and start sticking the grabs.

Coincidentally when Viney and Jones went down? When Gawn came back in? Supporters won't want to hear it but we truly were cruelled by injuries this year compared to the run we had in 2016. That doesn't excuse round 23 of course but it does give some reasoning why we were in that position in the first place.

We'll miss by 0.2% next year, 0.1% the year after, ....

He wouldn't crumble under the pressure of having to kick the goal from 45 metres on a 45 degree angle - he'd put it straight through the centre, mid-post high. More than I can say for ANYONE else on our list. Just take a look at the R23 game - Watts kicks the goal from 50+ on an angle - Garlett, Gawn and Tyson all miss sitters with less than half the degree of difficulty. There's different types of pressure and players respond to them differently. Watts responds very well to pressure when kicking the ball both in play and from set shots. Who would you want kicking for goal to win the GF after the siren? For me it would be Watts every time.

What has 48 feet and 17 teeth? The front row of the Collingwood Cheer Squad.

I think he makes good points on analysis, noting the warning signs were there in Round 15 and onwards. Citing the St Kilda fast start but nearly blown, as with Port Adelaide game. Knows there is work to do but the foundation is there. The timing of the message was appropriate - no one wanted to hear these messages earlier in the week. And about just getting to finals is not good enough, its about winning them. I liked that. I doesn't make me feel better but with our line up we would have been creamed this weekend.

Watts application was questioned at the start of the year. Back end of year his application was questioned again. I want players that do not need after 9 years of AFL to be coaxed to get the required effort for a high performance professional club. I want players that I trust what I will get week in week out. I would trade him for anything inside pick 30 or as part of any deal to get Lever and/or some outside run like Gaff/Devon Smith/Hall/Whitfield.

Yep another year of inconsistent, teasing, weak, brilliant footy by our Jack...

Brilliant coach, top quality person, we are in good hands. Onward and upward from here.

What the [censored] is "linear improvement"?

Into the midfield next year, the perfect replacement for Bernie who is at the end.

A Collingwood girl walks into the local dry cleaners. She places a garment on the counter. "I'll be back tomorrow afternoon to pick up my dress." she says. "Come again?" says the worker, cupping his ear. "No" she replies. "This time it's mayonnaise."

and biffo was very definitely suss

How can you tell the bride at a Collingwood wedding? she is the one in the new Mokkies.

Q: What do you do when see a Collingwood fan with half a head running across a paddock? A: Stop laughing and re-load. ...too harsh?

Pick 10 won't be enough. Dreaming if you think it will be.

If you're going to spread this tripe, at least be accurate in the crud you quote The thread is not about Watts being "out & about". It's about him being traded to Freo And the "out & about" mentioned was a wedding. Stop the presses ! Hold page 1 ! Footballer has fun at wedding ! FMD

Could've sworn giving you a flag gets you first place

Used to care. Don't anymore.

Jack started the year pretty well, got injured and never got his best form back. Hes not even close to our biggest issue and it's a total cop out to suggest he is.

Up until his injury he was having a very good year - on top of a great 2016. Teasing is the right word for it. A fit and firing Watts makes us a four goal better team; when he's 'off', he's a liability. I'm conflicted, as I think many supporters are. If success comes, I'd love to see him there as a key part to it. However if the offer is very good... perhaps both parties could benefit from the change.

So, trade our most productive ball user dead eye kick for goal, and get ????? In a team of football ball Butchers gee doesn't make a lot of sense!?

ell.. I'm glad hes finally fronted. Tbh I couldn't really care less what he says as I haven't believed a word all year. For me it's simple. He's accountable. He's now accounting.. A bit late..better than never I suppose. A little of what he says does substantiate what some thought. All was not right at Melbourne. Unlike possibly the majority here I'm yet to be convinced we have the Messiah coach on board. Hopefully he speeds up his ability to learn from mistakes as the season was full of instances really where it looked like we nauseatingly repeating poor ideas. For me it'll be back to Demon-101 'it's the off season" It's what we do . We don't do finals...thats for OTHER teams...we just day dream away the summer. Be truly interesting to see what happens with the list. even more interesting to see what changes occur in the FD !! Then it's crunch time in 2018. To be or not to be. Words are rubbish it's action. I want to see action. i.e I want to see wins and demonstrably good wins . Again. I just wanted Goodwin to front up. that's his job ( afaic) . He could easily have done that last week. To paraphrase Kennedy...don't talk...DO !! SO with Melbourne he'll need to do something better than he's done already. Rome wasn't built in a day I know...but the clubs been around a bit longer than a week also. Season 2017 Failure Season 2018 has started for Simon. Over to you.

I think that shows how far back we came from, rather than that our rate of improvement hasn't been fast enough.

Of course it is obvious, Doc. But building a game plan for a flag doesn't mean it should not be modified when circumstances require especially when the coach knew at the beginning the team would struggle with it for the whole season. He expected them to run out of steam, not because the team is young per se, but because it is a demanding game style to sustain. Being flexible is what having plan A, B, C, D is all about. Especially, in finals. Anyway, I wasn't being critical - was making the point that the coach(es) missed a trick. There will be soul searching and they will learn from it and will be the better for it. Even Goodwin's greatest fan would acknowledge he made some significant blunders. But our coaches are relatively inexperienced. They will learn and grow from this year's experiences and disappointment.

my 2017 Membership pack arrived this week , I kid you not... (but to be clear that is the Italian post and not the MFC)

"Linear Improvement" isn't just measured by wins and loses, but in game style development, the implementation of the 18 man defensive zone, individual player development, increased individual flexibility within the squad, team cohesion and increased ability to hit KPIs and key stats. We've improved on all levels if we're analysing the team that played under Goody and were in every game up until Round 15 before tiring. Particularly, if you compare it with the team that was coached by Roosy in 2016. Clear improvement outside of merely winning two more games. We dominated most opposition for long passages of play unlike we had, not since the mid 2000s under Daniher. Upon reflection we had a really exciting season. I thought we'd make finals and in most years, 12 wins and a percentage of over 105 will get you there. Not to be this year though. But I predicted 10 wins in 2016 and 12-13 wins in 2017. Next year I think we'll be capable of 14 or so. Iron out some of those consistencies, strengthen the squad, diversify the game plan and game style, and we're not far off. We have to keep evolving though as a coaching group and ensure our game style remains ahead of the curve. Given the incremental improvement over the last 4 years, it seems we have the right group to continue our evolution.

I'd rather get him in now than wait a year

agreed. he could have a least sacrificed his first born

my finals booklet arrived today in the mail. That pulled the scab off again.

We are getting picky at Demonland. Andrew Gaff not good enough for us? Wow. Perfect age, provides what we desperately need, averages 29 possessions a game this year for WCE, lovely kick, runs all day, good decision maker and durable. Nah, who needs that? I love him at the Demons, would be one of our best 10 players.

What about this pick 10 and 28 to Adelaide for Pick 18 and Lever, pick 18 and Kent to WCE for Gaff.

Someone needs to tell the Bulldogs this. They should be really concerned about their non-linear improvement last 2 years. We should just thank the MFC.

You would hope so, if not, this year's miserable end will have been for nought. From seeing both Jones and Gawn, and now hearing from Goodwin, does seem to have put a rocket under them. The thing that jumped out to me in what he said mirrored something I've felt for a while, and that's the very real consequences of suspensions and injuries "which made the continuity of our playing list inconsistent". The long-term benefit of playing week in, week out with the same team in the same configuration can't be underestimated. Hopefully next year we can have a more settled side, and everything that goes with it.

Thought for a minute I had mistakenly wandered over to the whacko general board. We should play bulls*** bingo and see how long terms like lefty, right wing, commo, terrorist, bolshy (damn, already done!), femenista, Boltite, greenie, PC, nazi (damn!), white surpremist, etc take to be used on this thread.

Goody sings the blues: ♪♫ When I woke up this morning Everything I had was gone Said when I woke up this morning Everything I had was gone Had my heart set on finals Now we gonna play none Knocked out on percentage On that long dark night Knocked out on percentage On that long dark night I have pains in my heart They have taken my appetite Worked fifteen years Playing as a Crow Worked fifteen long years Playing as a row Got here to Melbourne as head coach Never felt so low Beat twice by North Melbourne Took me by surprise Beat twice by North Melbourne Took me by surprise But when we give up against Brisbane Had to close my eyes Had to fold my arms And I slowly walked away Had to fold my arms And I slowly walked away I said in my mind Trouble gonna come someday Round twenty three at the MCG Felt like judgement day Round twenty three at the MCG Felt like judgement day Only had to beat them Magpies Found black and white makes grey And I rolled and I tumbled And I cried the whole night long And I rolled and I tumbled And I cried the whole night long Boy, I woke up this mornin' My self respect was gone ♫

As Paul Roos would say sometimes after games like last week it's best not to say anything straight away because anger and emotions can cloud your judgement and you may say things you regret. What I did like was not saying it was only 9 points in the end. Liked the statement The ladder doesn't lie and clearly we weren't good enough. No more words needed for me, it's time for action

Wasn't unhappy enough for me. I wanted tears

Well, I didn't realise he was given the nickname 'Chimp' at Collingwood. Say what you like about Lumumba being a bit pretentious and precious, but that is f'n awful. I mean this is pretty basic stuff, not complicated. Even Collingwood people should be able to get that far.