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Quite surprised considering all the trade chatter. Well done to him and the club. He's shown a lot of potential in what is still a very young career.

Update: he can fly.

This is good news. Interesting comments by him, regarding him being frustrated that his form had dipped at the wrong time and he wasn't able to pull it round sufficiently in the 2s in time for the final rounds. I wonder if this means that, if we acquire Lever, TMac will be permanently forward? I certainly see upside to Frost - at his best, his intercept work is great and his sprint out of defence is at times exhilarating! Well done young man.

He's fast aggressive, tall and keen to play for us. He'll play in our premiership team.

Told ya's haha

Like others, I find it incredible that the only person to front the media is poor old Nate. He takes a battering for his club on and off the field. No communication at all from the coach or president. Nothing. Not even an explanation why there is nothing. Even if they have a reason, tell us what the reason is. Most supporters are hurting. I don't care what they say. Just say something to show supporters that you care. Show some empathy. Even if there is going to be a "bells and whistles" explanation or commentary down the track, the club has lost the opportunity to show that it damn well cares for supporters and understands how we are feeling. The time to do it was in the immediate aftermath of the weekend. Oh ok Jonessy did it. But where the hell was the President and Coach. A massive fail by these two guys and an insult to members, many of whom are wondering whether they should bother giving a damn next season and invest any more emotional energy in the club.

I wish posters would take their hate and ignorance to the DL dark web - or the comments section of almost any Hun article - and stay off the main board. And please do not take this an invite to spew comments like 'oh the nasty PC police are shutting down the majority voice again. Us white middle class men are the real victims here'

Just received my finals pamphlet in TODAY'S mail !!!!! FMD !!!!!!!

Bump The events of 105.2 % could now serve as an epilogue to this book. The harsh road travelled is so long and dark I can now no longer see where it started from, nor remember where it all began. I can only see ahead into the distance but not beyond a small knoll , there is a faint light behind it but I see no further, what is behind it I don't know anymore , nor do I try to imagine. I simply just keep walking towards it. Go dees!

Don't know about that. We have over 42000 members most of whom would be angry at the result and some of whom may be reluctant to be members again in 2018. It would not be unprofessional of him to address those supporters on the club website and explain what happened and give them some hope and encouragement for next year. After all, they often do media for the most stupid BS reasons. I think the members would have been appreciative.

His best is terrific. Sill heart in mouth with ball in hand. Needs to be smarter about leaving his man but can see why the coaches tell him to back himself. Hopefully can iron out some of the deficiencies....

Presented with his award as the best young player on AFL 360 tonight. Earned high praise from Richardson the Saints coach. Awarded to players in their first 2 years after making debut. It is also notable that Petracca also figured in this award third.

Was worried this would be about getting him as a player.

See, there you go again... You don't even know what I think of Lumumba, his time at Melbourne or his view of the world but it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. So, if you do some research you might see that I didn't think we should have brought him into the club in the first place and I was happy to see the end of him. He was a Roos vanity exercise. However this has nothing to do with some of the points he is making, and I stress some. I don't know if he is a victim or not, I think he is a very lucky man to have the opportunities he had and still has. He has a voice that for better or worse gets heard unlike most of us. ...but, I think we are over some of the nicknames that are offensive to some, him included. Also, there are racist elements in society as you well know. I actually happen to think they go both ways. I also think there are major indigenous issues to be sorted out and am interested in all opinions. I don't think the victim mentality and a lot of side issues really helps the debate but someone might convince me otherwise. So, there you go. I'm not left or right, I have my own opinions and they are flexible. That means I like to listen and consider other peoples opinion. ...so go ahead and label me whatever you like. I actually hate labels myself, a bit of a simple way to look at life.

And yet he has continually bitten the hand that feeds him. To my mind, Harry seems to have this continual need to have people stop and applaud him. Not for what he has done (this is a societal trend where celebrity equates to occupation) but for having this mythical quality that provides him with a greater understanding of the Universe than you or I can ever have. And if we don't applaud his every utterance, he spits the dummy and points to colour. That's ok when you're making great money as an AFL player, comical/sad when you're working 9 to 5 at Spotless . Good luck to him but he's in for a reality check sooner rather than later.

Can we get this bloke on board as an assistant coach? Pleaaase Would take no [censored], sort the men from the boys, even though hes a "great bloke"

Interesting he said that McCartney told him to pick a player as a mentor to help model his professionalism. He chose Billy Stretch.

Good boy frosty. The longer these guys are together as a team, the better we will be.

Really? "All the trade chatter" on here..... He has the athletic attributes to be a pillar of flag winning side. Consistency to intensity and an ongoing focus on foot skills are his keys. Kudos Dees and Frosty!

Your spot on with the club reconnecting with members! Not a word from anyone but Jones about the putrid finish to the season. Many many members I've spoken with are just too fatigued with this club at the moment. Jackson and others need better engagement with those who part with their hard earned to keep this club going. It feels like the club just takes it for granted paying members will just throw their money at the club every year. Very sour taste at this time.

Soft [censored] brigade? Maybe some people see beyond his being a player who failed our club. Sure he was an attention seeker, but that wasn't always a bad thing. I'd say the real soft [censored] are the posters that take the easy way out and simply dismiss him as an arrogant [censored].

Understand exactly how you feel Brendan. It was just such a sh-thouse way to end our season.

Without trying to oversimplify things, there's effectively two competing game styles: Option 1: Your slower, keep possession style of play where you focus less on winning contested ball and more on keeping it once you have it back (i.e. Hawks of the previous years). This requires a high level of skill to kick through zones, strong defensive structures to absorb forward 50 entries and high level pressure when in certain areas to win the ball back. Option 2: A run and carry game where you attempt to run in waves through zones, limiting the amount of kicks (Melbourne / GWS / Adelaide). This relies on you winning the contested ball and getting it on the outside where you run and spread hard. You have to build your list to execute one of the 2 game plans. Tnte Hawks had the list for option 1, but then replaced their 2 best kickers with handballers so they struggled and their game style now is a work in progress. Melbourne have gone for contested beasts and (usually) win the clearances. We have identified the stoppages as a competitive advantage and structured the team accordingly, the idea being to handball to someone outside of the immediate vicinity of the stoppage, who can then do likewise, until such time as it is in the hands of someone on the outside running at full pace to break the lines, or who can hit up a target moving away from the stoppage. When we're on, our run and carry is evident and we rip teams to shreds. When it's not, we look slow, "handball happy" and our backline get caught between streaming forward for the outside run and staying back in their defensive setup Ironically, some of melbournes best passages of play this year have been a chain of handpasses, where we've broken through the oppositions line, force the defender to leave their man and commit and we handball over the top. Where this breaks down is when we don't have the outside run. The inside mids flick it around looking for it, but if it's not there they then get caught with the ball. As for those who scream "just kick it", and then bemoan the player for kicking it to a 1v3 up forward, it's down to the way we are trying to play and why players just don't throw it on the boot. We want to effectively run it into our 50, not launch it high and long from stoppages. Hence the "over handballing". I don't criticize the inside mids. They're doing what they're told to do. If you're going to criticize anyone point the finger at the lack of outside run during stretches of some games forcing the inside mids to keep it within the immediate vicinity of a stoppage.

A narcissist with an over-inflated sense of entitlement

There is also another article: Heritier Lumumba says he was accused of throwing Collingwood president Eddie McGuire 'under the bus' http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/afl/afl-news/heritier-lumumba-says-he-was-accused-of-throwing-collingwood-president-eddie-mcguire-under-the-bus-20170818-gxz433.html From reading it ealier this morning, it relates to Lumumba publicly calling out Eddie over the Goodes incident. Now with the knowledge of this previous 'chimp' nickname issue, it is fully understandable how and why Lumumba would have reacted. There is nothing casual about racism. That all said, anyone who throes Eddie under a bus has my support.

We are more like investors: Vote in the Board, Go to AGM's, Buy shares (sort of) via memberships; Get Financial Statements and have a vested interest in their fortunes. Clients buy a service once or more and then walk away.

Hierarchy they're he is

Yes, he will and he should. But there are two drawbacks of that: 1. It will be about 6 weeks after we unceremoniously surrendered our position in the 8. The b&f will be too formal, too little, and far too late. 2. Not many of the 42,000 members go to the b&f and fewer will look at the website, especially if still angry/hurting. Even fewer will watch the speeches. I wonder where is their plan to connect with and shore up the support of members the club desperately needs again next year? How many of the 8,000 additional members in 2016/2017 will be having second thoughts? It all smacks of the club taking members for granted.

Im not complaining about Jones. Im complaining about the club. We still have a club ? Seems to have fallen off the edge

Eagles booted out of the finals by COB today due to doping.

Tysons biggest flaw is he continually makes the same mistakes over again.There hasnt been any improvement in the 3 seasons he has been with us.

So as much as I hate this, having a trend like this is a great thing when analysing how we can improve next year. There are 20 examples of 10-20 minutes in length we need to focus on. Based on your numbers, ~100 goals were kicked in those lapses. That's about 1/3 of all scores against us this year. All of that came in ~300 minutes, or 10 quarters. That's out of 88 quarters. So 33% of scores against came in ~11% of game time. We improve that by 20% and we win 3-4 more games and finish in the top 4.

It's no good having 12 touches in the first quarter if 6 are turnovers.

We go handball crazy because they have created a game plan around one paced, ordinary-kicking midfielders. They are always under pressure, so they have to handball it around to get a spare man, because that spare man needs all the time in the world to be a chance of hitting a target. Put a couple of dashing wingman and a couple of lightning forward flanks around the contest and watch how quickly they get it out of the congestion and into space for some run, carry and precise kicking.

Pretty hard to know unless you're an AFL recruiter, but I know for a fact that the MFC players hope he gets drafted by us. Not only is he freakishly talented for his size, but he has great personality and the boys love him.

By popular demand the 2017 TRADE AND DRAFT LEVERAGE BOARD is here. Some threads relating to trades, drafts etc will be moved from this board to the 2017 TADLB

Very lazy player who often finds himself in space due to the fact he doesn't follow a man wen out of possession. Has had 22 tackles and 15 1%s from 17 games this year. We often criticise Watts and Gartlett for their defensive efforts: Jack Watts 42 tackles from 16 games. Jeff Gartlett 74 tackles from 21 games.

So, in summary, we lack kicking skills, outside run, inside grunt, ability to spread from a contest, ability to offer leads up forward, ability to spot leads that are offered, and lets not forget our defence has gaping holes all day.

Our skills by foot are also atrocious (bar a few of course). Clarkson is renowned for saying "if you can't kick, you can't play". It makes me wonder how many of our best 22 would fit into his lineup. Is one reason for this because our team also trains by overusing the handball? I hope over the off season the coaches revisit the basics of spreading, kicking and rapidly hitting lead up targets. The club also needs to look into getting a kicking coach (or at least place some emphasis on kicking technique).

I've already received the 2018 calendar with him on the cover in the mail. What could possibly go wrong?

Very, very poor promotion by the AFL. Free entry but no one knew it was on!

He's seemed to have struggled with injuries the last two years. 2016 I think he played a large portion of the season under an injury cloud from my understanding and in 2017 he had an interrupted pre-season and an injury mid-season. I hope we back him in as I think he is talented enough and has shown that at his best he is very good. And I'm not just saying that because he is my username and avatar. Also, he is still only 24 so still has a couple more years before he reaches his peak, think 27-30 yo.

What won't work, in my opinion. Firstly, we don't have Lever and Motlop and are no certainties to get them. Let's stick to what we've got and make that work better. OMac was a revelation this year, particularly his ability to win the ball, remain calm and look for options. Frost's hard running ability and sheer speed, if properly harnessed, could be a weapon. Secondly, Jesse Hogan is far too smart as a footballer to waste at FB. He would have made a great older style CHB like Neitz or Roos with a licence to roam. But in today's footy, this is not allowed and he would also be wasted at CHB having to mark opponents. He has a great football brain (which is seemingly never acknowledged) and it would be better to let the opposition try to mark him when he controls the forward line as I have previously suggested on multiple occasions. Monoccular gets it. Thirdly, the Weed is not read yet for such an important role and would probably benefit from a change to the backline for a year where he could be more involved in the game. Fourthly, with a more dominant Hogan, Petracca should blossom as a key forward. He can mark, kick and monster opponents and, like the young Jones, if he doesn't get the ball, no one does. He holds the ball in the forward line and provides more scoring opportunities, if we are good enough. That's all for now.

Some of our best games were with Tommy at deep forward /FF. And the Bears game aside, where he was not the subject of any defensive attention at all, Hogan has given more as a NIck Riewoldt style CHF with license to roam. Particularly if Lever did happen to come across, Tommy could easily be freed. And if JW4 stays, a wing / linkage role should suit us well.

Let's consider how the FD might resurrect the wingman position and game. Not sort of midfielders but genuine wingmen. Leave the midfielders' work to Oliver, Viney, Jones, Petracca, ANB, AVB, Brayshaw Salem etc. Say Sam Frost, Jack Watts and Jayden Hunt as rotating connector players dedicated to providing an outlet option for the back line and the skill/speed to rapidly transfer the ball to the forward line. Two on the ground at any time with two way running between the 50s in the space between the square and the boundary. Not down the line but wider than the corridor with a licence to run, run and run and kick long to a well prepared and spread forward line who are aware of what is coming and how. At the other end, provide a crowd to fill gaps and frustrate opposition forwards. When we win the ball, provide a moving target and become 60-80m power players who, with good coaching and a developed game plan, could revolutionise the game. Nothing to lose. Can't be worse than the current, unsuccessful game plan. Finally, let's change the tone of this topic and this site. Please restrict any comments to the merits, or otherwise of the proposal, not on the players.

He'd do well on here then

A divisive topic eh? It's not one way or the other way. Anyone telling us there's too much Political correctness or that the country is racist has no nuance at all and comes across as desperate. It's no wonder these debates become heated, because both sides have incorrect views and both sides feel the need to correct those incorrect views, over and over. And IMO, Lamumba is both a pretentious wanka and not a pretentious wanka, depending on what time of the day it is. Just like me, and everyone else. And as for Lamumba being self righteous and holier than thou, hasn't anyone ever been righteous and 'correct' in an argument with a partner? Or been a human in their 20's?

This thread is going to end badly.