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11 weeks is a lifetime in footy. Spencer went from being a 'list clogger' who would never be played unless Gawn got injured, to good insurance when Gawn eventually got injured, to a disaster and a reason to recruit a third pure ruckman when he got injured himself, to an afterthought when we played fine without a recognised ruckman, and, finally to being a 'list clogger' again because we don't need a 2nd pure ruckman behind Gawn. And breathe...

Cannot believe why so many people here are prepared to show Weiderman the door. He is still a baby, needs 2-3 years at Casey yet

I've actually spoken to an assistant coach at the club and he tells me that Lewis has taken both watts and Oliver under his wing and he credits both of their improvement this year to his work in the back ground. Thankfully TGR plays absolutely no part in our FD.

This week Nathan Jones will run out for game 235 sitting him equal 10th in MFC's most games played with Brett Lovett. Love your work Chunk.

Hey Guys, Haven't been on for quite sometime but thought it might be a good time to come on and have a chat about Hibby. Hibby was larger than life. Not just in stature, but he had the personality and passion of no other. He loved this club. Hence why we got along so well. There were only two types of clothing Hibby owned. His work uniform, and Dees apparel. Thos who had the pleasure know that he loved a frothy, loved a dart and loved nothing more than chewing the fat over the Dees. I will miss him. He was one guy I always knew I would bump into at the game or on the train home. A top bloke all round. United with his Sister, who he tragically lost a few years ago. Rest In Peace, Matthew 'Hibby' Hibbert

Not really, he's one week back from injury and his form was scratchy at best last week. He hasn't deserved a call up, if he has a good game this week then he will be looked at for next week. Just because he plays ruck it doesn't make him an automatic call up when Max is out... Having said that, we definitely need to strengthen our ruck stocks next year, whether with Spencer or not.

If Jake wants to leave the deal will get done. And no we won't be trading Salem! History shows players that are out of contract and want to leave get to their preferred destination more often that not.

How valuable would it be for Viney and others to spend a preseason watching a 4 time premiership pro go about his business ? What value do you put on his intellectual property ? The value of being able to talk to him about his experiences and how he witnessed a club win a flag 3 years after they won 5 games for the year ? I've been disappointed with his output, but I have zero doubt he's got some good footy left in him in 2017. And unlike others, I don't dislike him, so perhaps my views aren't clouded from the outset.

It astounds me that you would want to trade Weideman at this stage of his development. The guy is 19, has shown some great glimpses and is currently building strength and a tank. He's not a mid-fielder FFS, give the bloke a chance to develop properly.

One of the things that made me so happy on Monday arvo was our gut running from so many players, Bugg, Harmes, Jones, Watts, Garlett etc etc. When I watched Jack make that incredible run at the end and kick that goal (I'll never forget it), after lots of jumoing around and beers, it made me think of this article. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/stinging-criticism-made-cameron-pederson-work-harder/news-story/0513bd33927554d21f594def39aa6978 THERE'S A RUTHLESS CULTURE AT OUR CLUB! I could see the parallels with Pedersen (being told he won't play AFL or VFL until he drops 10kg) and Watts being held back at the start of the season to raise his intensity. He's delivered. But when you watch the replay you can see it with so many of our team now. I reckon Garlett might have had a similar talking to after he dropped away last year a bit too. He has been magnificent with his work ethic as well. Then there's players like Bugg (what an effort at the end), Harmes, Jetta, Hibberd etc etc. They'll never be considered champions but their efforts are relentless. The bulldogs have been the same, We are now. We never let them get away from us and we hunted them down. We are building a champion team. It's a credit to all the leadership of our club.

Saints percentage was 96.57 at 3/4 time finished at 94.95

If Tom McDonald starts in the forward line then I'll spew up.

Actually I'd say there are far worse ruckmen getting regular games at other clubs, but Spencer has had bad luck over the years. This year at VFL level (and in the pre-season) he was actually showing a bit, Gawn went down and Spencer does his shoulder after one and a half games. He has had one game at VFL level returning from injury and was scratchy, we are playing a club that doesn't have a big man ruck so his is the perfect time to play Pederson as he has battled very well in the absence of Spencer and Gawn. I also believe that back when Jamar was with us and he got injured Spencer also copped an injury the same week. Sometimes it's about taking your opportunity, and sometimes it's about the the gods giving you the luck to be able to to take your opportunity. He's a back up ruckman, he plays at VFL level. That's his lot in life.

I'd say it's more horses for courses, we don't want to go in too tall against a nippy dogs outfit, especially with Cloke out now also.

Interesting no change, I think they will bring spencer in next week then gawn week after

I'm happy with that. No player deserved to be dropped. I'm sure the FD would have weighed up match-ups to go in unchanged. Up to the players now to repay the faith!

Probably not but we have been short of able bodied soldiers! Bernie is the type to say 'i'm right mate' and keep going and he is such a clever player for us, so he takes the field (without complaint). A few others are in the same boat Petracca had knee bone bruising a month ago which usually takes a few weeks to recover but he kept playing. Watts has been carrying an injury and hurt his ankle at training and he plays. With our long injury list and no-one at Casey knocking the door down these guys soldier on (and for the most part have been critical in our wins). Tough caper being an AFL player.

This CBA wait is a crock for mine. All parties know whats on offer.

No, someone with some moral fibre and integrity.

I just re-watched the last 5 minutes against the pies and you could not get a more valuable coaching and teaching lesson than Lewis's actions in the Tom Phillips goal. 5:18 to go. When the ball is turned over , Lewis gut runs and chases from our half forward line - not quick enough to tackle. As the ball moves wider to our half back flank Lewis has run ahead of the play to where he thinks the ball may go filling the hole 40 metres ahead of the Collingwood kicker. The ball does come in and Lewis looks back and sees that Moore will mark unopposed, backs into Darcy Moore at full back to at least create body pressure and a contest (not sure where the tall backs were). The ball spilled loose due to Lewis's body pressure ( albeit Moore should have marked over Lewis) - Phillips gathers and goals. Whilst they still kicked a goal from beating our press, Lewis, whilst not earning a stat and the team getting a negative result, showed what 250 games plus of experience brings to the table. He is past his best but is valuable none the less.

Not sure why people are worried about who's going to line up against us next week v West Coast when we have a big assignment against the Bullies who get back four of their better premiership players for this Sunday's "season defining" game at Etihad. What happened to one week at a time?

Still the 2nd best Jetta in the AFL...

ANB runs all day. Which means someone needs to run with him. Ben Kennedy's heat map is a 30 metre circle in the pocket with a thin line to the bench.

Nice fingering Dappa! As others have said a clear reason he is in the 1s ahead of others.

For those who are on the facebook pages you would have come across this name Hibby Hibbert. He was a larger then life character who was pretty passionate and vocal character who once admitting to being Yze Magic here on demonland. Don't know how true that was but a real tragic to lose one of our former great supporters. Rip mate.

North - just so hateable. We need to spank those campaigners later this year.

I remember when we used to play like these two teams.

Pathetic crowd.

I hold some similar thoughts to yours. Thought Spencer looked really, really rusty last week. I also believe that nonetheless, against any other opposition he'd have been playing. 'Dogs are nearly as light on as we are for ruck strength. Roughead plays more like a Pedersen role than a dominant ruck role despite his height, Good player but rarely dominates. T Boyd has played 2 decent games in his career. I suspect as others do that Goodwin is taking the run & gun approach to this game. I expect Spencer to play in Perth next week, whether Gawn is fit to resume or not. I also expect him to get a contract with us next year, much to the chagrin of the OP who I suspect is clueless - but that's inconclusive. Totally

I find it hard to believe that we're not better off with Spencer as the chief ruck instead of TMac and TMac as key defender instead of OMac, although I'm less convinced of the latter than I was last week. I think that stands even if WB don't have a ruck either. Struggling with this one, I've got to say. I don't buy that it's because they don't rate him - this setup would have been unfathomable prior to Spencer getting injured. Must be concerns over his form, it's the only answer that makes sense to me. It might be that we see the ruck as being redundant now and won't bother with one unless he's a star (Gawn). Sucks to be Spencer if that's the case, but again I have doubts. I acknowledge that I don't know squat and I trust team Goodwin's judgement.

He's a hell of a reverend.

We need to cut Bernie some slack. The big toe he hurt in the early rounds has been slow to recover. It would swell up every week and he needed injections pre game and at half time. Not sure if it was his kicking foot but nonetheless it would affect his running, chasing and balance when kicking.

Thanks, Beelzebub, you can see yourself out.

As a thinker...I think 'martin' is pretty close to the mark on this. 'TGR', I don't think you have thought this through at all. You've only looked at things on a surface level...player you see as past his prime, 3 year contract. It's in the media's interest to ramp up a story, write off a champion, think they have all the answers. Their stories run on daily and weekly cycles. Thank goodness our FD don't run this way, they knew what they were getting. Yes, we signed Lewis to a 3 year deal but as Martin says it was good business. You've got to get past the 3 years, it's not the point here. My thoughts are that we were looking to get one good season to really help develop a young list and anything past that is a bonus. I would love to see Lewis have those games he did with the Hawks, usually when Hodge and Mitchell were out or struggling, where he picked up the slack, took the team on his back and led them to victory. Maybe those games are past him now or maybe he steps up this week.

Lewis contract heavily front ended. Has paid dividends already. Jordie McKenzie was on bigger coin in the last year of his final contract than Jordan will be..If he plays one game bin 2019 it will be a bonus.Club fully aware of this. Even as an assistant coach he'll be on roughly the same as Ben Matthews.Plenty of salary cap room for young bucks.This discussion is just about the biggest non issue of the millennium.

I know you gotta give something to get something but no way are we getting rid of Salem. He's one of the few kids we have with a lethal boot

He's been performing very well in the VFL for a while so if anyone is going to get a chance to come in it should be him. We haven't seen him at AFL level yet this year so perhaps the time in the VFL has helped with his tank and is playing as less of a small half forward. When he first came to the club he actually showed some promise so I'm not giving him the flick just yet.

IN 2016 WB was an ok home and away side that had a great finals series. But they haven't done anything of note this year. Comparative performance: (MFC in Itallics) They have beaten one top 8 side - Rich by 5 points. Demons beat 1 top 8 side - Adel by 41pts They have lost to 3 top 8 teams - GWS, WCE and Geelong We lost to 2 top 8 teams - Geelong and Rich Their big wins (>30pts) have been BL and StK Our big wins (>30pts) were Adel, StK, Ess, GC Their % is just 102.5 Our % is 110.9 So for mine our 2017 compares very favourably. We have banked 2 wins at Etihad this year so we can play that ground. We have a better midfield and I don't see a line where they have an absolute advantage. They are not so formidable this year. Don't get me wrong this will be a tough game to win and we can't give them a 5 goal head start. In many respects we are the better side with better recent form. It is a 50/50 game.

Yze_Magic still posts on Demonland under another alias. 95% sure of that. Not familiar with Hibby Hibbert but may he rest in peace. Hope he got to see Watts' magnificent goal on Monday as his final MFC memory.

As others have said, it's a great pick up Dappa, and indicative of why he is in the side. He got a hard hit in the marking contest and was actually sore when he got up, yet from the moment above he put that aside and sprinted between the arcs to affect the Treloar kick. The FD would have noticed that and he should get plenty of praise for it. It's a shame others can't see it, as Buggy is having a positive impact on our forward line at the minute. Some want to drop him, which shows how little they watch the game.

I always thought Maxwell was just an average player (but an above average thug), but in 2009/10/11 he was a superb general. He might not have been able to do it himself, but he was bloody good at making sure the young talent was in the right place at the right time. We've complained for a decade that we have had no older leaders, and now we have got one almost for free some think that we've lost in what was pretty much a gift. We will play finals. Of that I'm sure. And when we do Lewis will pay back his paypacket in the first game - and every young talent in the side will learn a million things from him.

Thanks to WCE win Bulldogs are now out of the 8. Lose vs Demons and they will stay out of the 8 with only 6 wins and a % of =/< 100. To make the 8 they will then need to win 6/7 of the last 10. They play North, WCE, Adel, Carl, GCS, Ess, BL, GWS, PA, Hawth. Only a couple of gimmes there. It helps that 6 of those are at Etihad. Expect two very desperate teams. Huge game for both: We win and we are a game and % ahead of 8th and 9th. Bulldogs win and they get a game clear. The classic 8 point game!

Provided he plays Sunday and next week, he's on track to play his 150th against Sydney on Friday night at the MCG. Dont want to look too far ahead and milestone games often tend to backfire but this bloke does deserve a bit more glory.

I love that theory! Given I have played 0 games, I'm takin' 10 years off!!

The joy of the disposal efficiency topic is that is has enough grey area for everyone to be right. Defenders have good disposal efficiency -> good disposal efficiency is a benchmark for defenders everywhere anyway -> the efficiency is a product of the circumstances getting it (open spaces, marks, defenders outnumbering forwards) -> good disposal efficiency is a product of the work rate of players running to present options -> we shouldn't look at DE% anyway, clangers are more important... Round and round we can go. And we do! From what I've observed, the biggest 'whipping boys' for disposal among the Demons are the McDonald brothers and Dom Tyson, and the three of them share the feature of sometimes delivering really terrible clangers, the kind of totally unnecessary turnover which catches everyone by surprise and turns a rebound into a panic scramble. These clangers have a big impact and, more than anything else, are highly memorable. The couple of times a game that Tom McDonald mysteriously, absurdly, manages to kick directly to an opposition player on their own are the single factor preventing him from being an elite defender, but with them he is definitely not one. That's how much they matter and while I don't like the vitriol, the cause is reasonable.

Well we better make their job alot easier and take Ollie Wines off them.

Put themselves under cap pressure after signing Ryder & Dixon. Think they locked away Wines last year, so no room for them to move prior to new CBA coming into effect. Hartlett was initially available last year and clubs are reportedly throwing cash at Pittard now. I'd like us to look at youngsters Aidyn Johnson and Todd Marshall. Johnson has great pace with some good tricks and would be cheap if he wanted to come back to Vic. Marshall was a reasonably high pick from Murray Bushrangers and is tall enough to play ruck/forward, but will have limited chances whilst Dixon and Westhoff are running around in the fwd line. Trengove may be a decent plan B to Lever pursuit.

On exposed form, playing on the third best forward most week's, Lever looks a jet. However can someone explain what our back 6 looks like next year with Lever? Also what they would be willing to trade. Then explain how that gets us closer to a flag. Find me a forward/ruck and quality ball carrying mids before we start throwing what we would have to to get a player that is a nice to have not must have.

Yes, I saw the commas around "hide" so that's why I said " It suggests you recognize his declining abilities and "football" value to the team". You appear to have ducked my question " Are you suggesting that we retain him in the team for his leadership capabilities (which I dispute) even if he isn't up to it and there are better alternatives? " I know you've given us an example of what you've done as a coach but you've suggested you did play your old fumbly leader because you had a very young group. I contend we don't have a very young group and I'd also contend that a team playing well below AFL standard (an assumption that may be wrong) can't be compared to a group of full time footballers with such an experienced group of assistant and development coaches training them as well as input from Leading Teams (who I think we still use). Anyway I'd be interested in your answer to my question if you can be bothered. But on another note it's interesting how people interpret events to suit their views/hopes/stance. Lewis supporters and now defending his lack of chasing saying it's smart. When Watts was a whipping boy and did the same he was treated quite differently. Steve's initial reaction was that Oscar's kick to Harmes was lucky (he's not a supporter of Oscar in case you'd missed it) but when he looked closely at the replay he agreed Oscar's kick was good. Lewis came to us as a bit of a messiah and we all desperately want him to have that defining difference to our team. I did too, I just never liked him and regardless of the fact he now wears a MFC jumper I can't warm to him. I see what he does very critically whereas others see him through rose coloured glasses because they don't want their hopes dashed. Lewis has been very good on occasions. He was particularly good against Saints but has been workman like the rest of the games with some very poor performances during games. He was terrible against Suns in the first half. He's slow and he's old. I'd dispute Pro's assertion that he can play multiple positions. I think his midfield days are just about gone, he's a liability one on one in defence because he can't go with the smaller forwards. He can't play small forward because he can't apply defensive pressure. His position is running up and down the wing picking up a few kicks and playing loose man in defence. He's not done yet but he's not far off. I hope he get through next year but with the natural improvement of players like Wagner, Smith, Stretch, Brayshaw and the return of Gawn and Hogan (who just add general pressure to selection) he's in trouble. Anyway that's my view, we'll see what happens.